I heard the 650 room application was a procedural one to give them flexibility, 800 is still target (apparently) from Jeff Alutto who stated such during a Commissioner meeting. 

 

I certainly hope it is. Anything less than 800 rooms is an abject failure to me. 

 

Also - honestly - there are two projects, west end mixed use and carew, that all deserve funding more than this. 

 

Hamilton County, the City and 3cdc need to get their s**t together. 

Edited November 14, 20231 yr by stashua123

13 hours ago, Cincy513 said:

I think you guys are overreacting a bit.  Of course they're going to ask for as much money as possible.  Anything they can get is less that the county has to pay for.  Developers always say the project won't be able to happen without these funds/tax credits to help their chances of getting the most amount of money.  The project is going to move forward no matter how much they get from this fund.  

 

That's my take. Anytime applications go in for this or any sort of grant or subsidy, catastrophe has to be the other option to winning the money and the resulting utopia.

Edited November 14, 20231 yr by Rabbit Hash

TMUD is an interesting credit due to the fact that asking for more money results in a worse score for the application, so Portman and co better hope they score very well in the rest of the categories.

It would be really dumb to say "we want this money designed to help projects get off the ground but even if we don't get it we're good." You have to pretend that you can't make the project happen any other way. 

Snapped a couple pics around the convention center site. Convention Place is gone...

 

Edited November 18, 20231 yr by savadams13

On 8/27/2023 at 3:01 PM, savadams13 said:

I would say by next week the skywalk will come down as well. Glad to see Convention place coming down...

They need to stop taking skywalks down they're so cool!

On 10/2/2023 at 9:27 PM, 646empire said:

Just randomly scrolled thru the current photos on the 3CDC site and yikes. The building 100% needs a refresh. The paint, the carpet, signage and yes the exterior the building looks a mess. The idea of connecting a brand new hotel to this outdated structure is laughable.

 

https://www.3cdc.org/project/duke-energy-convention-center/

Columbus has a very ugly, pole building looking convention center - but this is just a hot mess!

2 hours ago, columbus17 said:

Columbus has a very ugly, pole building looking convention center 

i'm not sure what pole-building-looking is, but the additions to Columbus really brought the original building down, as it's just rote repetition on a budget. It was also a very time specific design , as it functioned as a kind of ghost of the neighborhood around it that was deserted and all but gone when it was built. now that area is dense with buildings, skywalks have been built across high, big hotels...etc.  and that impression is lost.

Columbus has to be given credit for taking a chance like that. It delivered.
 

55 minutes ago, zsnyder said:

i'm not sure what pole-building-looking is, but the additions to Columbus really brought the original building down, as it's just rote repetition on a budget. It was also a very time specific design , as it functioned as a kind of ghost of the neighborhood around it that was deserted and all but gone when it was built. now that area is dense with buildings, skywalks have been built across high, big hotels...etc.  and that impression is lost.

Columbus has to be given credit for taking a chance like that. It delivered.
 

NRI is largely to blame for that, but they have done well. With the new tower I think we're going to see even more activity, especially with other infill projects popping up in the area.

Ohio awards critical grant to Cincinnati convention center headquarters hotel project

By Chris Wetterich – Staff reporter and columnist, Cincinnati Business Courier

Jan 29, 2024

 

Cincinnati and Hamilton County’s new headquarters hotel project got a major boost from the state of Ohio.

 

MORE

That's good news of course, but I wish that article had information about the other Cincinnati projects like Carew and West End. Does the state not release a full list like they do with the historic tax credits or is this hotel news just an early release? 

^Was just looking at the states website for results; not finding any.

6 minutes ago, ucgrady said:

That's good news of course, but I wish that article had information about the other Cincinnati projects like Carew and West End. Does the state not release a full list like they do with the historic tax credits or is this hotel news just an early release? 

Enquirer is saying Carew got 4.2 million but doesn’t mention any of the other projects. 
 

https://www.cincinnati.com/story/news/2024/01/29/cincinnatis-convention-center-carew-tower-get-boost-from-ohio/72352413007/

Edited January 29, 20241 yr by Ucgrad2015

Final Convention Center Renovation Plans out today, looks pretty good!

 

https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2024/01/31/city-county-3cdc-new-details-duke-convention-cente.html

Edited January 31, 20241 yr by 646empire

Quote

the permanent closing of Elm Street

This is shortsighted, just provide removable bollards and design it completely flush for when shutting it down is actually necessary exactly like they did with Court Street.

10 minutes ago, ucgrady said:

This is shortsighted, just provide removable bollards and design it completely flush for when shutting it down is actually necessary exactly like they did with Court Street.

I don’t think its shortsighted at all it’s actually the opposite considering the next expansion is most likely going to close elm permanently anyway with the building going east. So doing it now makes sense to me. Also I like having the new outdoor space completely seamless with the convention center itself not half baked like court street. I like the new court street design but it’s not all that.

Edited January 31, 20241 yr by 646empire

It's shortsighted because with bollards they could shut it down when necessary and leave it open when not. Our weather isn't great and we don't have that many large conventions that would even utilize the space across Elm. Why prematurely close a public street that is a direct link for cars and bus routes from the south towards Washington Park / OTR when it is only necessary 17 times per year (per 2019 convention numbers)? By the time they are ready to expand will they want to demolish this new faceted facade they just installed or will they want to expand on the reclaimed BSB land? Even the article says they aren't sure about that so why are we closing down Elm? Should we close Central Ave too because they might want to expand that way in the future? This is going to make it harder to get from I-75N or the west side/US 50 to the northwest corner of downtown or OTR, and as much as we don't like cars they are still the primary mode of transportation for most of Cincinnati. It will push any cars coming from I-75N to not be able to turn north until Vine Street. 

17 minutes ago, ucgrady said:

It's shortsighted because with bollards they could shut it down when necessary and leave it open when not. Our weather isn't great and we don't have that many large conventions that would even utilize the space across Elm. Why prematurely close a public street that is a direct link for cars and bus routes from the south towards Washington Park / OTR when it is only necessary 17 times per year (per 2019 convention numbers)? By the time they are ready to expand will they want to demolish this new faceted facade they just installed or will they want to expand on the reclaimed BSB land? Even the article says they aren't sure about that so why are we closing down Elm? Should we close Central Ave too because they might want to expand that way in the future? This is going to make it harder to get from I-75N or the west side/US 50 to the northwest corner of downtown or OTR, and as much as we don't like cars they are still the primary mode of transportation for most of Cincinnati. It will push any cars coming from I-75N to not be able to turn north until Vine Street. 

 

The renderings seem to show bollards. I suspect they will be able to remove the bollards and open it up whenever necessary. 

Will the reconfigured BSB project allow access to Central from the 5th Street exit? That would be a possible solution to the problem of cars driving all the way to Vine to go north

30 minutes ago, ucgrady said:

It's shortsighted because with bollards they could shut it down when necessary and leave it open when not. Our weather isn't great and we don't have that many large conventions that would even utilize the space across Elm. Why prematurely close a public street that is a direct link for cars and bus routes from the south towards Washington Park / OTR when it is only necessary 17 times per year (per 2019 convention numbers)? By the time they are ready to expand will they want to demolish this new faceted facade they just installed or will they want to expand on the reclaimed BSB land? Even the article says they aren't sure about that so why are we closing down Elm? Should we close Central Ave too because they might want to expand that way in the future? This is going to make it harder to get from I-75N or the west side/US 50 to the northwest corner of downtown or OTR, and as much as we don't like cars they are still the primary mode of transportation for most of Cincinnati. It will push any cars coming from I-75N to not be able to turn north until Vine Street. 

So much here it’s hard to even respond to be honest.

 

1) This decades old idea/ speculation of taking the convention center west would not even be feasible until the 2040s when the center would be about due for another big make over anyway. This point also addresses your comment about demolishing the east side of this new facade at some point. If they go east it will be sometime in the mid to late 2030s for which it’s not going to be that big of a deal as a matter of fact this new design makes a lot of sense for a eastward expansion. One more thing WHY would we burn all that new “reclaimed” land on a convention center box???? Silly if you ask me.

 

2) Your point about Conventions not using the space doesn’t make a ton of sense because it doesn’t exist yet and they haven’t really started marketing it to future clients. I think it will VERY much be used. Also bigger than that is you must have missed the news about how 3CDC is going to be using it for all kinds of programming such as movies nights etc, this new space will make a lot more sense for certain 3CDC events over Washington Park and Fountain Square.

 

 

Edited January 31, 20241 yr by 646empire

40 minutes ago, jwulsin said:

 

The renderings seem to show bollards. I suspect they will be able to remove the bollards and open it up whenever necessary. 

It’s a permanent closure.

Very nice job touching the whole building. This and the new convention hotel is going to be huge for Cincy. 2024 is going to be a massive construction kick off downtown. Pendry Hotel, Carew Tower among many others WOW, I don’t remember a time when so much will be under construction simultaneously.

 

Edited January 31, 20241 yr by 646empire

FYI the Cincinnati sign on the westside will stay. Construction begins in July and finishes in December 2025.

Edited January 31, 20241 yr by 646empire

Any word on what will happen to the Albee marquee?

27 minutes ago, 646empire said:

Very nice job touching the whole building. This and the new hotel is going to be huge.

The renovation looks great, no complaints there! 

 

I just still think permanently closing more downtown streets is a bad idea. If it's at least a decade until expansion either east or west, it is by definition premature to be closing streets and further severing the street grid in this section of downtown. 3CDC can close it off every every night for movie nights if they want to, whatever; that still doesn't mean Elm needs to be permanently closed to traffic for daily use. This isn't some side street in OTR we are talking about, Elm is one of only THREE north bound streets that connects CBD and OTR.

 

Also if the West facade with the Cincinnati signs and Reiss mosaics is staying as-is, those facades will be 25 and 15 years old respectively in 2030 when the BSB is finished (optimistic I know). Compared to the 3ish year old facade facing Elm, expanding west might seem more prudent at that point, if expansion is even deemed necessary. For all we know after this beautiful renovation they are getting the conventions they want, the world has continued to change post covid and expansion isn't worth it anymore. 

 

10 minutes ago, LAW 21 said:

Any word on what will happen to the Albee marquee?

 

It should go to a park somewhere. A lovely architectural relic.

 

Its presence slapped on the side of the convention center has always rubbed me the wrong way though. It's kinda horrible.

^ That's a good idea, it could stand alone similar to the Union Station arch in Columbus. 

Does anyone else think that the convention center redesign is eerily similar to UC indoor athletic facility and CVG rental car expansion? Maybe its just me but they all look similar with their exterior designs. 

51 minutes ago, ucgrady said:

If it's at least a decade until expansion either east or west, it is by definition premature to be closing streets and further severing the street grid in this section of downtown.

This would be true if the purpose of closing the street right now was the east expansion but it’s not lol. What they want to do in regards to landscaping and layout is not going to work if they have make it accessible for vehicle traffic. Something that you’re missing is the park/ outdoor space design which hasn’t been released yet. The plan is to really make the building and the outdoor space feel like one. Kind of a “spill over” effect.

Edited January 31, 20241 yr by 646empire

1 hour ago, LAW 21 said:

Any word on what will happen to the Albee marquee?

 

I always thought it should go at the end of the Roebling Bridge entrance where the "Sing the Queen City Sign" is.

The city is looking at converting Race and Vine to 2-way. If those move forward, as does the closure of Elm, the amount of northbound routes in the CBD will stay the same as there are now, while southbound would increase.

 

I also assume that the bollards exist to be removed to allow for food trucks to be setup on Elm, as well as display vehicles, small trucks needing to load/unload outdoor booths, trucks with landscaping materials, etc.

I'm hoping this is a placeholder for the hotel and not the final design. The one last year would look far better than this. 

2 hours ago, stashua123 said:

I'm hoping this is a placeholder for the hotel and not the final design. The one last year would look far better than this. 

I’m thinking it’s just a placeholder. The original design they revealed awhile back had the same design of hotel. 

19 hours ago, ucgrady said:

I just still think permanently closing more downtown streets is a bad idea.

 

 

It's a really bad idea, assuming that they're actually going to physically block Elm St.  If it remains as a pedestrian and transit corridor then it's not as bad.  Of course, we don't get to see the real plans until ground breaks, since opposition can't organize around 4-5 fake plans.

 

It just seems like they're really trying to wall off conventioneers from the rest of the city and concentrate them in the southeast quadrant of downtown. 

 

 

You mean the southwest quadrant of downtown?  Not sure why you think they're trying to wall off the conventioneers from the rest of the city.  They'll have the same main entrances with this renovation as they do now.  The entrance most people use is two blocks from fountain square.  It's a straight shot up Elm 6ish blocks to OTR.  Only 3 blocks to the banks.  Closing Elm can be up for debate but this renovation isn't changing anything in terms of how connected the convention center is to the rest of downtown.  

49 minutes ago, Lazarus said:

It just seems like they're really trying to wall off conventioneers from the rest of the city and concentrate them in the southeast quadrant of downtown. 

Thats the last thing they are trying to do also the convention center is on the westside of downtown so how would keeping them in the southeast quadrant work???. Downtown Cincinnati is very compact and the convention center is 2 blocks from city center/ Fountain Square so this makes zero sense.

 

 

Edited February 1, 20241 yr by 646empire

3 minutes ago, Cincy513 said:

this renovation isn't changing anything in terms of how connected the convention center is to the rest of downtown.  

Exactly.

IF YOU (OVERHAUL) IT, THEY WILL COME

Planned $200M renovation of convention center will revitalize a corner of downtown, bring in millions annually

expand

By Chris Wetterich – Staff reporter and columnist, Cincinnati Business Courier

Jan 31, 2024

 

Without a highly functioning convention center and headquarters hotel, there is about a $41 million annual hole in Cincinnati’s economy, one that typically would be filled by visitors from across the country as they gather to talk about their industry, examine new products and network. Over the last nine years, the city lost out on 52 conventions per year. Their organizers cited a lack of convention center assets or a substandard or nonexistent headquarters hotel, according to Visit Cincy, the region’s convention and visitors bureau.

 

The city and county are expected to take the final steps in the next few weeks to begin filling that void, voting on the financing package for Duke Energy Convention Center’s $200 million overhaul soon.

 

Along with Cincinnati Center City Development Corp., which is overseeing the overhaul, they unveiled the latest renderings for the project, gave more detail about how it will be bankrolled and announced two major changes: the retention of the “Cincinnati” sign on the building’s west side and the permanent closing of Elm Street. “It’s a generational opportunity,” Hamilton County Administrator Jeff Aluotto said. “The message to Visit Cincy is, ‘Go out and dominate this market niche that we’re in.’ We’re making this convention center much more effective and salable.”

 

MORE

 

58 minutes ago, The_Cincinnati_Kid said:

the city lost out on 52 conventions per year

 

What data are they looking at to make this claim?

I hope we get an update on the convention center hotel soon.  The plan should be for both projects to finish at the same time.  Would be pretty stupid to have a grand opening for the updated convention center but not have the not hotel finished.  

21 minutes ago, Cincy513 said:

I hope we get an update on the convention center hotel soon.  The plan should be for both projects to finish at the same time.  Would be pretty stupid to have a grand opening for the updated convention center but not have the not hotel finished.  

You can’t build a hotel from scratch in 18 months. Even if they broke ground at the same time the renovation is naturally gonna finish first. Also it’s actually more of the opposite as it would be silly to open a convention hotel without a convention center. There are still other hotels downtown that will feed off of the convention center while the new hotel is in its final 6-8 months of construction.

Cincinnati headquarters hotel project faces more financing hurdles

By Chris Wetterich – Staff reporter and columnist, Cincinnati Business Courier

Feb 2, 2024

Updated Feb 2, 2024 5:48pm EST

 

Now that the developer of the planned new $480M headquarters hotel has secured a key state tax credit, stakeholders have to finish closing the financing gap for the project.

 

MORE

16 hours ago, The_Cincinnati_Kid said:

Cincinnati headquarters hotel project faces more financing hurdles

By Chris Wetterich – Staff reporter and columnist, Cincinnati Business Courier

Feb 2, 2024

Updated Feb 2, 2024 5:48pm EST

 

Now that the developer of the planned new $480M headquarters hotel has secured a key state tax credit, stakeholders have to finish closing the financing gap for the project.

 

MORE

 

So there's still a $125M gap after the state's recent 40M gift? How is that possible? TMUD scored this project as a perfect 15/15 for "financing committed"

Duke Energy Convention Center transformation gets funding from city of Cincinnati

By Chris Wetterich – Staff reporter and columnist, Cincinnati Business Courier

Feb 8, 2024

 

Cincinnati City Council approved a financing package for the $209 million overhaul of the Duke Energy Convention Center, kicking in an upfront payment as well as passing an ordinance to rework how the city’s hotel tax is spent in order to make the project possible.

 

The vote is a key step to getting the project off the ground.

 

The unanimous Feb. 7 vote appropriated $23 million from a city urban renewal tax-increment financing fund. A tax-increment financing fund sets aside money that would have been paid in property taxes to certain levies for the city’s use for public purposes. The fund was generated from downtown buildings constructed in the 1980s.

 

MORE

So is there still a gap ..


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3CDC, Duke Energy Convention Center may share control over former Millennium Hotel site

By Chris Wetterich – Staff reporter and columnist, Cincinnati Business Courier

Feb 12, 2024

Updated Feb 12, 2024 9:49am EST

 

Nearly four years ago, the Port of Greater Cincinnati Development Authority acquired and shuttered the former Millennium Hotel, later demolishing it with an eye toward future development.

 

The site’s long-term future has not yet been decided, but the Cincinnati Center City Development Corp. (3CDC) recently gave more details about what its short-term future could look like.

 

Once a $209 million transformation of the Duke Energy Convention Center is complete, the site will be used as outdoor convention space for now, an amenity many convention groups desire, according to local tourism officials. Early renderings show a park-like atmosphere with two major clusters of trees, walking paths, tables and chairs, a small stage, as well as both paved and grass-covered open space.

 

MORE

On 1/31/2024 at 2:51 PM, ryanlammi said:

Will the reconfigured BSB project allow access to Central from the 5th Street exit? That would be a possible solution to the problem of cars driving all the way to Vine to go north

I finally had time and looked this up and no the 5th street ramp to central won't change much except that it gets more lanes; however, I71/I75 will now be able to exit off Ezzard Charles (currently northbound 75 can't get off at this exit) so that will provide better access to OTR and FCC stadium area than what exists today.

 

I'm still not sure I like closing down downtown streets permanently for what the Business Courier's article today calls a "temporary plan". It appears that temporary bollards and nice pavers through the block could provide a similar result and selling off public right of ways just seems like a one way street, once it's gone it's gone so we need to be positive that the new park/plaza space is very well done and the real final solution. 

4 hours ago, The_Cincinnati_Kid said:

3CDC, Duke Energy Convention Center may share control over former Millennium Hotel site

By Chris Wetterich – Staff reporter and columnist, Cincinnati Business Courier

Feb 12, 2024

Updated Feb 12, 2024 9:49am EST

 

Nearly four years ago, the Port of Greater Cincinnati Development Authority acquired and shuttered the former Millennium Hotel, later demolishing it with an eye toward future development.

 

The site’s long-term future has not yet been decided, but the Cincinnati Center City Development Corp. (3CDC) recently gave more details about what its short-term future could look like.

 

Once a $209 million transformation of the Duke Energy Convention Center is complete, the site will be used as outdoor convention space for now, an amenity many convention groups desire, according to local tourism officials. Early renderings show a park-like atmosphere with two major clusters of trees, walking paths, tables and chairs, a small stage, as well as both paved and grass-covered open space.

 

MORE

The Convention Center renovation will also include “garage doors” along Elm to open the building up onto the new outdoor space which is a really nice touch.

2 hours ago, ucgrady said:

It appears that temporary bollards and nice pavers through the block could provide a similar result and selling off public right of ways just seems like a one way street, once it's gone it's gone so we need to be positive that the new park/plaza space is very well done and the real final solution.

Hopefully it's a revocable street privilege and not vacating the public RoW. I would imagine that is what they would do if it's going to initially be a temporary closure but money talks ig

3CDC, Duke Energy Convention Center to preserve historic Reiss murals, art amid $209M renovation

 

In addition to its primary purpose as a convention hall, the Duke Energy Convention Center is a repository for two sets of historic art – a series of Reiss murals that once were located at Union Terminal and a Charley Harper mural inside the center called "Space Walk."

 

When the $209 million transformation of the center is complete, all will be preserved, according to the Cincinnati Center City Development Corp. (3CDC), which is leading the project.

 

The Harper mural, a mosaic that the late Cincinnati artist created for the 1969 convention center opening, was covered up by drywall between 1987 and 2014 because it didn’t match the decor. It is located above the east entrance to the exhibit hall.

 

More below:

https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2024/02/15/duke-energy-convention-center-art-reiss-murals.html