May 22, 20187 yr If the powers that be were trying to thwart attempts to boost tourism, they never would have allowed the Blink festival to happen. No one knows or cares about Blink outside of the region. Its a pretty awesome thing you've got, but doubt anyone even from Indy would know about it ;). Even when Cincy does stuff well it undersells itself. But they will care about an abandoned theatre and subway with a water main in it? Not sure what you expect to be done with these places to make them tourist attractions. Also if you do some research on the Emery you'll know that it has more to do with UC and ownership issues and a lot of people aware of its history want it to be saved. We also celebrate a lot of our history here, so I'm not sure what you mean by that statement. Plus it's awfully bold of you to act as if you understand every outsiders perspective of our city. On top of that you're almost always being a turd on here. Think about other cities you've traveled to with the level of history that Cincinnati has note what they do to sell the fact that they are historic places of note - see Charleston, Savannah, Boston and San Francisco for good examples (though the later two are way larger and the former are way smaller). I just feel that given what Cincinnati has - it severely sells itself short. Even STL does a bit more to promote itself for its rich history (even if the city itself was far worse impacted by the post industrial age than Cincy was). Even in a place that has less history, Seattle does a ton to promote the Seattle Underground as a unique attraction - something that the subway could be promoted as in a very similar way. Everytime the Subway gets brought up on national level publications there is a lot of interest around it - people love these kinds of stories even if the subway itself isn't the most attractive thing - its a unique piece of hidden history and people eat that up unless they are John Q I've Lived in Cincinnati my whole life. On threads on "New Urbanist Memes for Transit Oriented Teens" a popular urbanist discussion group on Facebook with an International Audience, I've shown pics of Cincinnati and got responces like "Wow I never knew it was like this, or so unique" etc. You have way more than you guys give yourself credit for and IMO that's much to the detriment of your city's cultural well-being. They ALL do a much better job of selling themselves than Cincinnati...even troubled St. Louis.
May 22, 20187 yr If the powers that be were trying to thwart attempts to boost tourism, they never would have allowed the Blink festival to happen. No one knows or cares about Blink outside of the region. Its a pretty awesome thing you've got, but doubt anyone even from Indy would know about it ;). Even when Cincy does stuff well it undersells itself. But they will care about an abandoned theatre and subway with a water main in it? Not sure what you expect to be done with these places to make them tourist attractions. Also if you do some research on the Emery you'll know that it has more to do with UC and ownership issues and a lot of people aware of its history want it to be saved. We also celebrate a lot of our history here, so I'm not sure what you mean by that statement. Plus it's awfully bold of you to act as if you understand every outsiders perspective of our city. On top of that you're almost always being a turd on here. I thought we were supposed to refrain from personal insults here.
May 22, 20187 yr If the powers that be were trying to thwart attempts to boost tourism, they never would have allowed the Blink festival to happen. No one knows or cares about Blink outside of the region. Its a pretty awesome thing you've got, but doubt anyone even from Indy would know about it ;). Even when Cincy does stuff well it undersells itself. To be fair, it has only happened once so far. I believe I saw it mentioned in one or two national publications. I'm not saying all is being done that could be to sell the city (far from it). But it seems like that is something that would have been easy for those championing the status quo to hold back -- something that is really world class, new, and requires public cooperation and approval. It's one thing to say things could & should be done more competently, and another to charge a grand conspiracy to keep people away. Blink was a local event. There were few people from beyond a 60 mile radius. It was BY Cincinnatians FOR Cincinnatians.
May 22, 20187 yr If the powers that be were trying to thwart attempts to boost tourism, they never would have allowed the Blink festival to happen. No one knows or cares about Blink outside of the region. Its a pretty awesome thing you've got, but doubt anyone even from Indy would know about it ;). Even when Cincy does stuff well it undersells itself. To be fair, it has only happened once so far. I believe I saw it mentioned in one or two national publications. I'm not saying all is being done that could be to sell the city (far from it). But it seems like that is something that would have been easy for those championing the status quo to hold back -- something that is really world class, new, and requires public cooperation and approval. It's one thing to say things could & should be done more competently, and another to charge a grand conspiracy to keep people away. Blink was a local event. There were few people from beyond a 60 mile radius. It was BY Cincinnatians FOR Cincinnatians. https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2017/09/27/international-artists-to-create-eight-new-otr.html www.cincinnatiideas.com
May 22, 20187 yr If the powers that be were trying to thwart attempts to boost tourism, they never would have allowed the Blink festival to happen. No one knows or cares about Blink outside of the region. Its a pretty awesome thing you've got, but doubt anyone even from Indy would know about it ;). Even when Cincy does stuff well it undersells itself. To be fair, it has only happened once so far. I believe I saw it mentioned in one or two national publications. I'm not saying all is being done that could be to sell the city (far from it). But it seems like that is something that would have been easy for those championing the status quo to hold back -- something that is really world class, new, and requires public cooperation and approval. It's one thing to say things could & should be done more competently, and another to charge a grand conspiracy to keep people away. Blink was a local event. There were few people from beyond a 60 mile radius. It was BY Cincinnatians FOR Cincinnatians. https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2017/09/27/international-artists-to-create-eight-new-otr.html It was no taste of Cincinnati (in a good way i mean). Lots of good press from all over and good art buzz well beyond the local area. https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/21/arts/design/at-some-museums-the-art-is-now-on-the-outside.html
May 22, 20187 yr ^Seriously. I had people who knew I moved to NYC from Cincy come up to me and tell me about "this cool event" they had heard about on social media. The idea that it was some insular event is patently false. It got just as much reach beyond its boundaries as any major event in any major city. It's not like an event has to be the Macy's Thanksgiving Day Parade in order to have outside draw.
May 23, 20187 yr Even I didn't realize how far Columbus' had pulled ahead in this game until I looked it up Er...you mean til I looked it up for you? Because you don't conduct any research before making your wild claims? though the seemingly endless wave of new hotels in Columbus should have tipped me off. If vastly exceeds the handful of modest new hotels in Cincinnati that some here seem to think is a major accomplishment for Cincinnati. Yeah? List the new hotels Columbus has added to its downtown. I'd love to see it. its problem is that it’s elite won’t let people create things in Cincinnati that would specifically attract others to Cincinnati in order to experience those things. They do this because they don’t want people creating new things in Cincinnati that would specifically attract people to Cincinnati who aren’t useful to them and their economic and political agendas. Any proof of this? Any examples you can offer? How about the Freedom Center and Zaha Hadid designed CAC? How about American Sign Museum, which is a new attraction. How about the zoo expansion and renovation of Union Terminal and Music Hall? Are those not new or improved things that would specifically attract people to Cincinnati? What about the whole push to get FCC in the MLS? Until you can site any sort of example, your claims are worthless.
May 23, 20187 yr This is getting tedious - I had not seen this but in convention news a new person to actually sell the city as a destination is in place. https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2018/05/18/cincinnati-convention-bureau-names-new.html
May 23, 20187 yr Even I didn't realize how far Columbus' had pulled ahead in this game until I looked it up Er...you mean til I looked it up for you? Because you don't conduct any research before making your wild claims? though the seemingly endless wave of new hotels in Columbus should have tipped me off. If vastly exceeds the handful of modest new hotels in Cincinnati that some here seem to think is a major accomplishment for Cincinnati. Yeah? List the new hotels Columbus has added to its downtown. I'd love to see it. its problem is that it’s elite won’t let people create things in Cincinnati that would specifically attract others to Cincinnati in order to experience those things. They do this because they don’t want people creating new things in Cincinnati that would specifically attract people to Cincinnati who aren’t useful to them and their economic and political agendas. Any proof of this? Any examples you can offer? How about the Freedom Center and Zaha Hadid designed CAC? How about American Sign Museum, which is a new attraction. How about the zoo expansion and renovation of Union Terminal and Music Hall? Are those not new or improved things that would specifically attract people to Cincinnati? What about the whole push to get FCC in the MLS? Until you can site any sort of example, your claims are worthless. From your earlier postings, it seems you are frustrated that you've been unable to break into the Cincinnati social scene. Maybe the problem is you and not Cincinnati :-) Are you disputing that Cincinnati's tourist and convention trade isn't actually significantly smaller than its peer cities? The numbers and references I put here make it clear that it is. Maybe the problem is you, or rather, that you aren't even in Cincinnati. Even Jake accepts that Cincinnati has a small convention and tourist trade...he says it's because Cincinnati's leadership was savvy enough to realize that conventions and tourism make no financial sense and not because its part of a larger agenda of exercising their control over Cincinnati.
May 23, 20187 yr I’m sorry RJohnson[/member] but that plan has WAY too much “urban renewal” going on. It looks like you would tear down all the historic buildings west of Plum. It makes no sense to knock down a bunch of beautiful historic buildings to put up a speculative shopping mall in any era, let alone one where retail is dieing off and Macy’s left downtown. You’d be replacing productive private properties with something that would require massive government expenses. Closing in the streets would be terrible for walkability of the area. Finally, reproducing the Albee facade (a historic building that got torn down) on something that itself replaces historic buildings would be insult to injury. E I don't know how to us this blog, but 1. the sidewalks will still be functional (you can walk on them). Some will be inside out of the weather (24/7/365). Sounds attractive to some walkers. 2. Leave all the "beautiful historic buildings" in place. There is existing retail and apartments. Attach the glass cap to the historic buildings. Or, just leave the facades. 3. Only closing one block; Plum, a useless street at present. Tearing down the Albee was necessary. Since Cincinnatians seem to want to live in some idealistic past, not only can they stare at the real facade of the old Albee they can stare at colorful lighted LED Albee facades.... think Blink. Now we have a beautiful new convention hotel, an enclosed air conditioned walkable park/exibition space and beautiful preserved historic buildings.
May 23, 20187 yr I’m sorry RJohnson[/member] but that plan has WAY too much “urban renewal” going on. It looks like you would tear down all the historic buildings west of Plum. It makes no sense to knock down a bunch of beautiful historic buildings to put up a speculative shopping mall in any era, let alone one where retail is dieing off and Macy’s left downtown. You’d be replacing productive private properties with something that would require massive government expenses. Closing in the streets would be terrible for walkability of the area. Finally, reproducing the Albee facade (a historic building that got torn down) on something that itself replaces historic buildings would be insult to injury. E I don't know how to us this blog, but 1. the sidewalks will still be functional (you can walk on them). Some will be inside out of the weather (24/7/365). Sounds attractive to some walkers. 2. Leave all the "beautiful historic buildings" in place. There is existing retail and apartments. Attach the glass cap to the historic buildings. Or, just leave the facades. 3. Only closing one block; Plum, a useless street at present. Tearing down the Albee was necessary. Since Cincinnatians seem to want to live in some idealistic past, not only can they stare at the real facade of the old Albee they can stare at colorful lighted LED Albee facades.... think Blink. Now we have a beautiful new convention hotel, an enclosed air conditioned walkable park/exibition space and beautiful preserved historic buildings. A street is the basic building block of a city, in a way a mall enclosure is not. A street is a fundamental element that people have tried and failed with gimmicks to replace (think skywalks.) Psychology your proposal, if it was not someone’s destination, would be seen as one big superblock to walk around, not through. That you describe that section of Plum Street as “useless” suggests we have irreconcilable differences. I would grade the west side of Plum an “A” for strength of building form and diversity of uses. There is even a new condo project underway on the south end of the block that will combine old & new construction. The parking lot on the east side of the street obviously needs to be redeveloped though. Additionally we had a mall in Carew Tower and it failed and had to be redeveloped, and Columbus had a mall downtown that was razed and redeveloped, so a downtown mall is not the kind of project that has been historically successful. This would be taking bunch of separate buildings with different owners that can reinvent themselves over time (a robust configuration) and combining them into one big fragile project probably getting government aid. The kind of project that in ten years headline writers will be writing things like “What’s the matter with convention place mall?” And “Convention place mall fails to attract tenants” similar to the problems we’ve seen at the Banks or Newport on the Levee. So, our historic buildings are not just about living in an idealized past, they are about maintaining a robust urban form that we know can stand the test of time. (Also, welcome to the forum... hope you don’t mind the vigorous debate right off the bat! You’re quite skilled with the graphics) www.cincinnatiideas.com
May 23, 20187 yr The Carew Tower and Arcade was the most successful mixed use retail development in Cincinnati for 50 years. There was barely a CBD worker who did not patronize one or more of its shops. Whether it died because of the horrible neglect of the CBD, the skywalks debacle or just the glitzy malls that took its business is just speculation. But, it demonstrated that main street lined with little shops was over for the time being.
May 23, 20187 yr That block of Plum Street is only useless from a driver's perspective. Short blocks with little traffic are some of the best to walk on and should be cultivated to that effect.
May 23, 20187 yr That block of Plum Street is only useless from a driver's perspective. Short blocks with little traffic are some of the best to walk on and should be cultivated to that effect. I almost rented the apartment above the Plum St. Cafe back in 2011 or 2012. It was a pretty crappy apartment, with the back bedroom's windows maybe 18" from the building behind it. So like zero light got in there. Also, I take my cat to Dr. Bob next door. My cat's recurring nightmares are all set there, I suspect.
May 23, 20187 yr I have stolen the links below from edale, but I suspect there is some apples and oranges comparisons going on here with the numbers Columbus and Cincinnati are reporting from their convention bureaus. I say this because Cincinnati mentions visitors while Columbus mentions day and overnight visitors. I guess it could be that the visitors are spending more per capita in Cincinnati because the other metrics are much closer in comparison. As usual the numbers get more interesting the closer you look: Columbus Visitor spend: 6.4 b Tax generated: 1.13 b Jobs supported: 75 k Cincinnati Visitor spend: 5.0 b Tax generated: 1.10 b Jobs supported: 77 k Also, here are some facts to chew on: 2016 visitors to Cincinnati: 26.1 million -- 2% growth from previous year (https://cincinnatiusa.com/tourism-counts-5-billion-industry) 2016 visitors to Cleveland: 18 million -- 2.8% growth from previous year (https://www.cleveland.com/travel/index.ssf/2017/10/greater_cleveland_attracted_18.html) 2016 visitors to Columbus: 39.3 million -- 1.5% growth from previous year (https://www.experiencecolumbus.com/articles/post/columbus-visitors-spend-64-billion-in-local-economy/)
May 23, 20187 yr I’m sorry RJohnson[/member] but that plan has WAY too much “urban renewal” going on. It looks like you would tear down all the historic buildings west of Plum. It makes no sense to knock down a bunch of beautiful historic buildings to put up a speculative shopping mall in any era, let alone one where retail is dieing off and Macy’s left downtown. You’d be replacing productive private properties with something that would require massive government expenses. Closing in the streets would be terrible for walkability of the area. Finally, reproducing the Albee facade (a historic building that got torn down) on something that itself replaces historic buildings would be insult to injury. E I don't know how to us this blog, but 1. the sidewalks will still be functional (you can walk on them). Some will be inside out of the weather (24/7/365). Sounds attractive to some walkers. 2. Leave all the "beautiful historic buildings" in place. There is existing retail and apartments. Attach the glass cap to the historic buildings. Or, just leave the facades. 3. Only closing one block; Plum, a useless street at present. Tearing down the Albee was necessary. Since Cincinnatians seem to want to live in some idealistic past, not only can they stare at the real facade of the old Albee they can stare at colorful lighted LED Albee facades.... think Blink. Now we have a beautiful new convention hotel, an enclosed air conditioned walkable park/exibition space and beautiful preserved historic buildings. A street is the basic building block of a city, in a way a mall enclosure is not. A street is a fundamental element that people have tried and failed with gimmicks to replace (think skywalks.) Psychology your proposal, if it was not someone’s destination, would be seen as one big superblock to walk around, not through. That you describe that section of Plum Street as “useless” suggests we have irreconcilable differences. I would grade the west side of Plum an “A” for strength of building form and diversity of uses. There is even a new condo project underway on the south end of the block that will combine old & new construction. The parking lot on the east side of the street obviously needs to be redeveloped though. Additionally we had a mall in Carew Tower and it failed and had to be redeveloped, and Columbus had a mall downtown that was razed and redeveloped, so a downtown mall is not the kind of project that has been historically successful. This would be taking bunch of separate buildings with different owners that can reinvent themselves over time (a robust configuration) and combining them into one big fragile project probably getting government aid. The kind of project that in ten years headline writers will be writing things like “What’s the matter with convention place mall?” And “Convention place mall fails to attract tenants” similar to the problems we’ve seen at the Banks or Newport on the Levee. So, our historic buildings are not just about living in an idealized past, they are about maintaining a robust urban form that we know can stand the test of time. (Also, welcome to the forum... hope you don’t mind the vigorous debate right off the bat! You’re quite skilled with the graphics) You are right a street is not a building. Yes some people's ideas were fails. But, now I've given you a perfectly good solution (or we could wait for the new bridge to be built then build all the way to the mill creek). There was the guy called Bucky and he said we should put a big glass dome over an entire city. It hasn't been done yet, but another one of his ideas was built in Dubai (?) Dreams come true it could happen to you.
May 23, 20187 yr That block of Plum Street is only useless from a driver's perspective. Short blocks with little traffic are some of the best to walk on and should be cultivated to that effect. I almost rented the apartment above the Plum St. Cafe back in 2011 or 2012. It was a pretty crappy apartment, with the back bedroom's windows maybe 18" from the building behind it. So like zero light got in there. Also, I take my cat to Dr. Bob next door. My cat's recurring nightmares are all set there, I suspect. This is what I mean. Here you have a street with what is probably from your description naturally occurring affordable market rate housing, a cafe, a vet who lives above his practice, and even some high end development going in down the street. It’s the kind of mix that we should be trying to emulate elsewhere when we spend redevelopment dollars. www.cincinnatiideas.com
May 23, 20187 yr I have stolen the links below from edale, but I suspect there is some apples and oranges comparisons going on here with the numbers Columbus and Cincinnati are reporting from their convention bureaus. I say this because Cincinnati mentions visitors while Columbus mentions day and overnight visitors. I guess it could be that the visitors are spending more per capita in Cincinnati because the other metrics are much closer in comparison. As usual the numbers get more interesting the closer you look: Columbus Visitor spend: 6.4 b Tax generated: 1.13 b Jobs supported: 75 k Cincinnati Visitor spend: 5.0 b Tax generated: 1.10 b Jobs supported: 77 k Also, here are some facts to chew on: 2016 visitors to Cincinnati: 26.1 million -- 2% growth from previous year (https://cincinnatiusa.com/tourism-counts-5-billion-industry) 2016 visitors to Cleveland: 18 million -- 2.8% growth from previous year (https://www.cleveland.com/travel/index.ssf/2017/10/greater_cleveland_attracted_18.html) 2016 visitors to Columbus: 39.3 million -- 1.5% growth from previous year (https://www.experiencecolumbus.com/articles/post/columbus-visitors-spend-64-billion-in-local-economy/) Can you imagine what Cincinnati could do if it quadruped it's tourist promotion spending to match that of Columbus? What if Cincinnati could just match Columbus' growth in hotel rooms? Cincinnati convention/tourist trade would be unstoppable!
May 23, 20187 yr taestell[/member] since you validated Matthew and agree with what he posts, maybe you could clarify. Just because I agree with one particular, specific point that a person makes does not mean that I agree with other points the person is making.
May 23, 20187 yr I’m sorry RJohnson[/member] but that plan has WAY too much “urban renewal” going on. It looks like you would tear down all the historic buildings west of Plum. It makes no sense to knock down a bunch of beautiful historic buildings to put up a speculative shopping mall in any era, let alone one where retail is dieing off and Macy’s left downtown. You’d be replacing productive private properties with something that would require massive government expenses. Closing in the streets would be terrible for walkability of the area. Finally, reproducing the Albee facade (a historic building that got torn down) on something that itself replaces historic buildings would be insult to injury. E I don't know how to us this blog, but 1. the sidewalks will still be functional (you can walk on them). Some will be inside out of the weather (24/7/365). Sounds attractive to some walkers. 2. Leave all the "beautiful historic buildings" in place. There is existing retail and apartments. Attach the glass cap to the historic buildings. Or, just leave the facades. 3. Only closing one block; Plum, a useless street at present. Tearing down the Albee was necessary. Since Cincinnatians seem to want to live in some idealistic past, not only can they stare at the real facade of the old Albee they can stare at colorful lighted LED Albee facades.... think Blink. Now we have a beautiful new convention hotel, an enclosed air conditioned walkable park/exibition space and beautiful preserved historic buildings. A street is the basic building block of a city, in a way a mall enclosure is not. A street is a fundamental element that people have tried and failed with gimmicks to replace (think skywalks.) Psychology your proposal, if it was not someone’s destination, would be seen as one big superblock to walk around, not through. That you describe that section of Plum Street as “useless” suggests we have irreconcilable differences. I would grade the west side of Plum an “A” for strength of building form and diversity of uses. There is even a new condo project underway on the south end of the block that will combine old & new construction. The parking lot on the east side of the street obviously needs to be redeveloped though. Additionally we had a mall in Carew Tower and it failed and had to be redeveloped, and Columbus had a mall downtown that was razed and redeveloped, so a downtown mall is not the kind of project that has been historically successful. This would be taking bunch of separate buildings with different owners that can reinvent themselves over time (a robust configuration) and combining them into one big fragile project probably getting government aid. The kind of project that in ten years headline writers will be writing things like “What’s the matter with convention place mall?” And “Convention place mall fails to attract tenants” similar to the problems we’ve seen at the Banks or Newport on the Levee. So, our historic buildings are not just about living in an idealized past, they are about maintaining a robust urban form that we know can stand the test of time. (Also, welcome to the forum... hope you don’t mind the vigorous debate right off the bat! You’re quite skilled with the graphics) You are right a street is not a building. Yes some people's ideas were fails. But, now I've given you a perfectly good solution (or we could wait for the new bridge to be built then build all the way to the mill creek). There was the guy called Bucky and he said we should put a big glass dome over an entire city. It hasn't been done yet, but another one of his ideas was built in Dubai (?) Dreams come true it could happen to you. But indoor malls downtown have been tried time and time again and failed. You just need to line all the streets around there with ground floor retail. Think of it as an outdoor mall. No need to overthink it. And the more streets the better. We shouldn't be getting rid of any. That's how you get that fine-grained urban scale that everyone loves. Think Boston, Savannah, Philadelphia. The shorter the blocks the more interesting it is for pedestrians. https://ceosforcities.org/small-blocks/ These are at the same scale. One is way more pedestrian-friendly.
May 23, 20187 yr If the powers that be were trying to thwart attempts to boost tourism, they never would have allowed the Blink festival to happen. No one knows or cares about Blink outside of the region. Its a pretty awesome thing you've got, but doubt anyone even from Indy would know about it ;). Even when Cincy does stuff well it undersells itself. This isn't true at all. I had friends come from Columbus and NYC to go. I had other friends in NYC, Philly, DC, and Chicago mention that after hearing about it they'd like to come when it happens again.
May 23, 20187 yr This is getting tedious - I had not seen this but in convention news a new person to actually sell the city as a destination is in place. https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2018/05/18/cincinnati-convention-bureau-names-new.html What is getting tedious? I posted some links showing how small Cincinnati's promotional efforts are in comparison to other cities it's size. I'm still struggling to understand why some find an honest and informed discussion of Cincinnati's convention and tourist business so upsetting.
May 23, 20187 yr What is getting tedious? I posted some links showing how small Cincinnati's promotional efforts are in comparison to other cities it's size. I'm still struggling to understand why some find an honest and informed discussion of Cincinnati's convention and tourist business so upsetting. Moderators - can we please put an end to this trolling?
May 23, 20187 yr If the powers that be were trying to thwart attempts to boost tourism, they never would have allowed the Blink festival to happen. No one knows or cares about Blink outside of the region. Its a pretty awesome thing you've got, but doubt anyone even from Indy would know about it ;). Even when Cincy does stuff well it undersells itself. To be fair, it has only happened once so far. I believe I saw it mentioned in one or two national publications. I'm not saying all is being done that could be to sell the city (far from it). But it seems like that is something that would have been easy for those championing the status quo to hold back -- something that is really world class, new, and requires public cooperation and approval. It's one thing to say things could & should be done more competently, and another to charge a grand conspiracy to keep people away. Blink was a local event. There were few people from beyond a 60 mile radius. It was BY Cincinnatians FOR Cincinnatians. It definitely has local roots, which is preferable to having some rando east coast org hired to come in and put on a festival. But there were a bunch of artists that came from around the country and internationally. It would be interesting to see data about who came to Blink and where they came from, but making assertions about that without any data isn't helping your point. Regardless, these things grow organically. The event was positively massive, and the next time it happens it will be bigger, due to word of mouth from the million-plus people who were there. I 100% believe this is a world-class event, having spent over a decade living in world cities. Word will spread, more well-known artists will want to take part in it, more word will spread, year after year, so long as the organizers keep putting the event on and don't try to wholly reinvent it (like was done with MPMF).
May 23, 20187 yr MidPoint Music Festival also started as a local event by a couple of guys who wanted to inject life into our struggling urban core. Within a few years it had grown into a much larger music festival that attracted people from a much larger radius. It continued to be a big regional draw until it was sold and entered its current form 2 years ago.
May 23, 20187 yr MidPoint Music Festival also started as a local event by a couple of guys who wanted to inject life into our struggling urban core. Within a few years it had grown into a much larger music festival that attracted people from a much larger radius. It continued to be a big regional draw until it was sold and entered its current form 2 years ago. One advantage Blink has over MPMF is that I don't think anyone is trying to make a profit with it. So selling it probably doesn't make any sense.
May 23, 20187 yr MidPoint Music Festival also started as a local event by a couple of guys who wanted to inject life into our struggling urban core. Within a few years it had grown into a much larger music festival that attracted people from a much larger radius. It continued to be a big regional draw until it was sold and entered its current form 2 years ago. At its peak, I think MPMF could have been a regional kind of SXSW for the Midwest. There were workshops, panels, and other things going on besides concerts in bars. “All truly great thoughts are conceived while walking.” -Friedrich Nietzsche
May 23, 20187 yr Originally that's what the organizers wanted it to be. I think there were panels and a keynote speaker the first couple of years, but that was eventually dropped and only the music festival portion of it continued.
May 24, 20187 yr I’m sorry RJohnson[/member] but that plan has WAY too much “urban renewal” going on. It looks like you would tear down all the historic buildings west of Plum. It makes no sense to knock down a bunch of beautiful historic buildings to put up a speculative shopping mall in any era, let alone one where retail is dieing off and Macy’s left downtown. You’d be replacing productive private properties with something that would require massive government expenses. Closing in the streets would be terrible for walkability of the area. Finally, reproducing the Albee facade (a historic building that got torn down) on something that itself replaces historic buildings would be insult to injury. E I don't know how to us this blog, but 1. the sidewalks will still be functional (you can walk on them). Some will be inside out of the weather (24/7/365). Sounds attractive to some walkers. 2. Leave all the "beautiful historic buildings" in place. There is existing retail and apartments. Attach the glass cap to the historic buildings. Or, just leave the facades. 3. Only closing one block; Plum, a useless street at present. Tearing down the Albee was necessary. Since Cincinnatians seem to want to live in some idealistic past, not only can they stare at the real facade of the old Albee they can stare at colorful lighted LED Albee facades.... think Blink. Now we have a beautiful new convention hotel, an enclosed air conditioned walkable park/exibition space and beautiful preserved historic buildings. A street is the basic building block of a city, in a way a mall enclosure is not. A street is a fundamental element that people have tried and failed with gimmicks to replace (think skywalks.) Psychology your proposal, if it was not someone’s destination, would be seen as one big superblock to walk around, not through. That you describe that section of Plum Street as “useless” suggests we have irreconcilable differences. I would grade the west side of Plum an “A” for strength of building form and diversity of uses. There is even a new condo project underway on the south end of the block that will combine old & new construction. The parking lot on the east side of the street obviously needs to be redeveloped though. Additionally we had a mall in Carew Tower and it failed and had to be redeveloped, and Columbus had a mall downtown that was razed and redeveloped, so a downtown mall is not the kind of project that has been historically successful. This would be taking bunch of separate buildings with different owners that can reinvent themselves over time (a robust configuration) and combining them into one big fragile project probably getting government aid. The kind of project that in ten years headline writers will be writing things like “What’s the matter with convention place mall?” And “Convention place mall fails to attract tenants” similar to the problems we’ve seen at the Banks or Newport on the Levee. So, our historic buildings are not just about living in an idealized past, they are about maintaining a robust urban form that we know can stand the test of time. (Also, welcome to the forum... hope you don’t mind the vigorous debate right off the bat! You’re quite skilled with the graphics) You are right a street is not a building. Yes some people's ideas were fails. But, now I've given you a perfectly good solution (or we could wait for the new bridge to be built then build all the way to the mill creek). There was the guy called Bucky and he said we should put a big glass dome over an entire city. It hasn't been done yet, but another one of his ideas was built in Dubai (?) Dreams come true it could happen to you. But indoor malls downtown have been tried time and time again and failed. You just need to line all the streets around there with ground floor retail. Think of it as an outdoor mall. No need to overthink it. And the more streets the better. We shouldn't be getting rid of any. That's how you get that fine-grained urban scale that everyone loves. Think Boston, Savannah, Philadelphia. The shorter the blocks the more interesting it is for pedestrians. https://ceosforcities.org/small-blocks/ These are at the same scale. One is way more pedestrian-friendly. I know, don't call it a mall. That will fool the out of towners. The brass fireplace guy is complaining that he doesn't have enough customers. And, fourth is a shadow of its one time glory. So my idea was to build a convention hotel and an inviting place for pedestrians as well as shoppers. If the covered porch of the convention hotel is not successful I will eat a big mac. The convention center cannot move. It cannot grow west because the bridge will not be built in my life time. the idea is to get people who are in hotels and new to the city out as peds. We just need a simple transitional area to ease the frightened hoards out into the big city. Yes lets create stores everywhere in around fourth and fifth. I was in Orly (Paris airport) it was big and covered and you could sit and walk and eat and shop and even fly out of it. There were people everywhere. I don't think the covered area needs to look like the covered hotel lobby at 5th and Vine. From the outside, who would know to go in that failure of a building. It just takes a little imagination. The Cleveland Museum of Art did a fantastic job of enclosing the courtyard/sculpture park. The ceiling is very high, the courtyard vast and the architect connected the old with the new and the newer. The entrances to the area just need to be more inviting. Let the peds see inside before they venture out into the wild. So in conclusion, this idea was an attempt show that putting a large open area in the right part of town, connected to a hotel, a convention center and shopping area could bring locals and out of towners together for a new experience.
May 24, 20187 yr ^Eh, I'm a retailer and can tell you exactly why there aren't going to be a bunch of stores opening anytime soon. Urban dwellers don't buy "stuff" nearly as much as suburbanites or rural dwellers. They have a very bad reputation in my industry for putting all of their disposable income in their mouths. Don't expect it to change anytime soon unless people start raising their kids (to 18, not 5) in the city en masse. Of course, getting into the macro factors in the retail industry today that everyone already knows about isn't necessary.
May 24, 20187 yr ^Not to stray off topic too much, but I'm always amazed at just how many individual storefronts there were (and are, in larger cities) pre-WWII. When your meat guy and your shoe guy and your china shop guy are all off selling their one niche thing, you end up taking up a lot of space. It would be physically impossible to adapt all this retail space to what actually sells these days (ie mostly prepared food)! “To an Ohio resident - wherever he lives - some other part of his state seems unreal.”
May 24, 20187 yr It definitely has local roots, which is preferable to having some rando east coast org hired to come in and put on a festival. But there were a bunch of artists that came from around the country and internationally. It would be interesting to see data about who came to Blink and where they came from, but making assertions about that without any data isn't helping your point. Regardless, these things grow organically. The event was positively massive, and the next time it happens it will be bigger, due to word of mouth from the million-plus people who were there. I 100% believe this is a world-class event, having spent over a decade living in world cities. Word will spread, more well-known artists will want to take part in it, more word will spread, year after year, so long as the organizers keep putting the event on and don't try to wholly reinvent it (like was done with MPMF). As long as MEMI doesn't get its grubby little paws on it, I think it will continue to grow. MPMF was such a missed opportunity - I don't think it was unprofitable either, I think it was more of a product of NEMI lacking any kind of creative bone in their bodies.
May 27, 20187 yr I’m sorry RJohnson[/member] but that plan has WAY too much “urban renewal” going on. It looks like you would tear down all the historic buildings west of Plum. It makes no sense to knock down a bunch of beautiful historic buildings to put up a speculative shopping mall in any era, let alone one where retail is dieing off and Macy’s left downtown. You’d be replacing productive private properties with something that would require massive government expenses. Closing in the streets would be terrible for walkability of the area. Finally, reproducing the Albee facade (a historic building that got torn down) on something that itself replaces historic buildings would be insult to injury. E I don't know how to us this blog, but 1. the sidewalks will still be functional (you can walk on them). Some will be inside out of the weather (24/7/365). Sounds attractive to some walkers. 2. Leave all the "beautiful historic buildings" in place. There is existing retail and apartments. Attach the glass cap to the historic buildings. Or, just leave the facades. 3. Only closing one block; Plum, a useless street at present. Tearing down the Albee was necessary. Since Cincinnatians seem to want to live in some idealistic past, not only can they stare at the real facade of the old Albee they can stare at colorful lighted LED Albee facades.... think Blink. Now we have a beautiful new convention hotel, an enclosed air conditioned walkable park/exibition space and beautiful preserved historic buildings. A street is the basic building block of a city, in a way a mall enclosure is not. A street is a fundamental element that people have tried and failed with gimmicks to replace (think skywalks.) Psychology your proposal, if it was not someone’s destination, would be seen as one big superblock to walk around, not through. That you describe that section of Plum Street as “useless” suggests we have irreconcilable differences. I would grade the west side of Plum an “A” for strength of building form and diversity of uses. There is even a new condo project underway on the south end of the block that will combine old & new construction. The parking lot on the east side of the street obviously needs to be redeveloped though. Additionally we had a mall in Carew Tower and it failed and had to be redeveloped, and Columbus had a mall downtown that was razed and redeveloped, so a downtown mall is not the kind of project that has been historically successful. This would be taking bunch of separate buildings with different owners that can reinvent themselves over time (a robust configuration) and combining them into one big fragile project probably getting government aid. The kind of project that in ten years headline writers will be writing things like “What’s the matter with convention place mall?” And “Convention place mall fails to attract tenants” similar to the problems we’ve seen at the Banks or Newport on the Levee. So, our historic buildings are not just about living in an idealized past, they are about maintaining a robust urban form that we know can stand the test of time. (Also, welcome to the forum... hope you don’t mind the vigorous debate right off the bat! You’re quite skilled with the graphics) You are right a street is not a building. Yes some people's ideas were fails. But, now I've given you a perfectly good solution (or we could wait for the new bridge to be built then build all the way to the mill creek). There was the guy called Bucky and he said we should put a big glass dome over an entire city. It hasn't been done yet, but another one of his ideas was built in Dubai (?) Dreams come true it could happen to you. But indoor malls downtown have been tried time and time again and failed. You just need to line all the streets around there with ground floor retail. Think of it as an outdoor mall. No need to overthink it. And the more streets the better. We shouldn't be getting rid of any. That's how you get that fine-grained urban scale that everyone loves. Think Boston, Savannah, Philadelphia. The shorter the blocks the more interesting it is for pedestrians. https://ceosforcities.org/small-blocks/ These are at the same scale. One is way more pedestrian-friendly. I know, don't call it a mall. That will fool the out of towners. The brass fireplace guy is complaining that he doesn't have enough customers. And, fourth is a shadow of its one time glory. So my idea was to build a convention hotel and an inviting place for pedestrians as well as shoppers. If the covered porch of the convention hotel is not successful I will eat a big mac. The convention center cannot move. It cannot grow west because the bridge will not be built in my life time. the idea is to get people who are in hotels and new to the city out as peds. We just need a simple transitional area to ease the frightened hoards out into the big city. Yes lets create stores everywhere in around fourth and fifth. I was in Orly (Paris airport) it was big and covered and you could sit and walk and eat and shop and even fly out of it. There were people everywhere. I don't think the covered area needs to look like the covered hotel lobby at 5th and Vine. From the outside, who would know to go in that failure of a building. It just takes a little imagination. The Cleveland Museum of Art did a fantastic job of enclosing the courtyard/sculpture park. The ceiling is very high, the courtyard vast and the architect connected the old with the new and the newer. The entrances to the area just need to be more inviting. Let the peds see inside before they venture out into the wild. So in conclusion, this idea was an attempt show that putting a large open area in the right part of town, connected to a hotel, a convention center and shopping area could bring locals and out of towners together for a new experience. This rework of the convention center hotel and "crystal palace annex". It leaves Plum Street intact. The Fifth Street Façade is the Albee Theater "block façade" as it was when the block was bustling. The façade is LED lighting that changes a rainbow of colors. the Crystal Palace is a hotel restaurant, open theater, small exhibition hall, and an invitation to 4th Street the Miracle half mile. No historical buildings were harmed in the rendering of this idea.
May 27, 20187 yr ^That’s a lot better! You’d still have to make sure there’s be stores and entrances facing the Fourth street and Plum Street sides of it though. If there’s a need for a “transitional area” as you put it it’s because we’ve been getting the way our buildings interact with our streets wrong for decades now. www.cincinnatiideas.com
May 27, 20187 yr While Tower Place mall was always dead, right up until the point it was closed for good and converted into a parking garage, the basement food court was always pretty popular. If you wanted a mall-like structure with some retail as a convention center component, you could use the interior of the block for that purpose. The food court in Tower Place was a completely standard mall food court, it was almost bizarre in context. A newer version could be modernized a bit, see Revival Food Hall in Chicago, for example.
May 27, 20187 yr ^That’s a lot better! You’d still have to make sure there’s be stores and entrances facing the Fourth street and Plum Street sides of it though. If there’s a need for a “transitional area” as you put it it’s because we’ve been getting the way our buildings interact with our streets wrong for decades now. I was looking for your approval. Wasn't it Brunelleschi who said, I know how to give you what you want, you just need to hire me for the rest of the story... or was that Paul Harvey. And, if you knew all the buildings were built wrong, you should have said something 3.5 decades ago. Way to go....
May 27, 20187 yr I remember Tower Place being pretty active circa-2003 but then it definitely went downhill by 2007 or so. The second floor of the mall connected directly with the Carew Tower arcade and the second floor of Macy's, which is where the men's clothes were, so it was pretty convenient. If you can remember DT Cincinnati in the 80s, it was WAY more active than it is now, with TONS of stores at ground level, in building lobbies, and on the skywalk level. The Mercantile building had a mini-mall in it with ground level and second-level retail stores, and the contemporary arts center on the second floor. I remember that space being very active.
June 17, 20186 yr I didn't see this make the news but the annual $1 million payout from the hotel tax to the Duke Energy Convention Center maintenance fund will now pay off FC Cincinnati parking garage debt. This means there is no longer any dedicated fund for convention center maintenance and the city will have to cover it out of city capital funds.
July 12, 20186 yr Covington planning an expansion of the NK Convention Center, no doubt onto land currently occupied by the IRS. There is enough space there for a convention center over 2x as big as Duke. If Cincinnati and NKY combined their convention & visitor's bureaus + hotel revenue they could build a big center in Covington, redevelop the Duke Energy Center blocks, and dig a subway tunnel under the river connecting DT Cincinnati and Madison Ave. in Covington.
March 19, 20196 yr https://www.wcpo.com/news/transportation-development/move-up-cincinnati/will-city-file-public-nuisance-complaint-against-downtowns-largest-hotel Hopefully we see development on the new hotel sooner rather than later...the millennial hotel is the epitome of awful first impressions to first time visitors.
March 19, 20196 yr Called it month ago that 3CDC and the Port were working on new hotel at Fifth and Plum. The only speculation i had which Cranley stated was they would remove the skywalk from the Millennium.
March 19, 20196 yr Sad that I heard this this morning positioned as Cranley calling them out and the first thought I had was that he is clearing the runway for a donor-friend to develop the land/hotel.
March 19, 20196 yr 5 minutes ago, Rabbit Hash said: Sad that I heard this this morning positioned as Cranley calling them out and the first thought I had was that he is clearing the runway for a donor-friend to develop the land/hotel. I just assumed the same thing. Very likely the developer of any new hotel to the south would be lining his pockets. "Someone is sitting in the shade today because someone planted a tree a long time ago." - Warren Buffett
April 5, 20196 yr Council Democrats nix plan for Millennium Hotel task force Cincinnati City Council Democrats voted down a motion to have Mayor John Cranley appoint a task force led by Councilwoman Amy Murray to deal with the owners of the Millennium Hotel downtown. Democrats P.G. Sittenfeld, Greg Landsman, Chris Seelbach, Wendell Youngand Tamaya Dennard voted against the motion at Wednesday night's council meeting. Republicans Murray and Jeff Pastor, Democrat David Mann and Vice Mayor Christopher Smitherman, an independent who sponsored the motion, voted for it. Smitherman called the vote “a possible missed opportunity.” "The Millennium Hotel has had issues, clearly,” Smitherman said. “We were in a unique position where one of our colleagues has a unique skillset that could be incredibly helpful in bringing us closer together with the owners. I have tremendous confidence in Councilmember Murray.” More below: https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2019/04/04/council-democrats-nix-plan-for-millennium-hotel.html "You don't just walk into a bar and mix it up by calling a girl fat" - buildingcincinnati speaking about new forumers
April 5, 20196 yr ^ That's a shame. I thought most of the city was in agreement that the Millennium is a massive liability. It seems like something the mayor and council and urbanites alike could all agree on. It should be, but we all know what the vote was actually about.
April 5, 20196 yr That was a joke of a "task force" anyway. That's committee work that can be, and will be, done in committee. Amy already is the chair of the Economic and Growth committee. If she didn't need a "task force" for the streetcar project she "managed" from committee then she doesn't need one for the Millenium. Besides, that's what we have paid, professional economic development staff for.
April 5, 20196 yr What would the benefit of a "taskforce" have been? I don't mean to be snarky, I just don't know what taskforces are allowed to do that a committee can't.
April 5, 20196 yr 1 hour ago, jwulsin said: What would the benefit of a "taskforce" have been? I don't mean to be snarky, I just don't know what taskforces are allowed to do that a committee can't. It's like the Space Force.
April 6, 20196 yr Surprisingly I've never been to the convention center before until today. Here are my observations... 1. The convention center looks sooo dated. Literally feels like 1980s inside. Desperately need a remodel. Even the extior looks drab and boring. So many cities have more up-to-date convention centers. Cincy shouldn't be lagging this far behind in that area. 2. The Millennium Hotel is an ugly hotel building. Please demolish it. 3. The Hyatt that's connected to Saks... Again such drab 80s architecture. Just ughhhhhhh 4. In fact the immediate area around the convention center is so ugly. Parking garages galore..not even the good looking kind, just straight up garages that feel like they are crumbling on the inside. Then there are the immediate small story office parks leased by pure romance and such. Who in the hell thought this was a good idea? Looks like a building designed for west Chester and planted in the urban core! 4. Everything is so dead around the convention center. It doesn't make sense! You have so many events that are bringing tourists! Why isn't there retail, cafes, resturaunts, etc? There is so much pedestrian traffic coming in an out of the hotels that the city can't even attract a damn Starbucks surrounding the convention center? In the end, this whole stretch needs massive urban renewal and revisioning. There should be a ton of mixed use commercial/residential in place of those garages at the very least.
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