January 16, 20205 yr 1 hour ago, Cincy513 said: Whoever designed the 84.51 building was a complete idiot. It was built way too small. 84.51 apparently has the right to take over the parking garage floors that are above ground, but supposedly 3CDC doesn't want to let them do that so they can continue to make money off the parking. Why they didn't just make the building 3-5 more floors tall is beyond me. They could have just rented out that space until 84.51 needed it. Gensler designed the building, but I would redirect your criticisms to the owner/developer. The designers don't get to decide how much space to build.
January 16, 20205 yr Once the 4th and Race garage+apartments is done, and then if we build another Cincinnati special, retail+parking garage+apartments either on the 5th and plum site, or current Millennium site, Maybe then 3cdc would be ok giving up the 84.51 parking.
January 16, 20205 yr 1 hour ago, JoeHarmon said: Once the 4th and Race garage+apartments is done, and then if we build another Cincinnati special, retail+parking garage+apartments either on the 5th and plum site, or current Millennium site, Maybe then 3cdc would be ok giving up the 84.51 parking. They aren’t going to convert the rest of 84.51 into office space for a long time if ever. You guys are forgetting the 200,000 square feet of Class A space they are putting in Fountain Place. Edited January 16, 20205 yr by 646empire
January 16, 20205 yr 3 hours ago, Cincy513 said: Whoever designed the 84.51 building was a complete idiot. It was built way too small. 84.51 apparently has the right to take over the parking garage floors that are above ground, but supposedly 3CDC doesn't want to let them do that so they can continue to make money off the parking. Why they didn't just make the building 3-5 more floors tall is beyond me. They could have just rented out that space until 84.51 needed it. It sounds like the problem isn't really with the design, it's the agreement between 84.51 and 3CDC. The fact that 84.51 can say "we need more space, let's convert those parking levels to office space now..." and 3CDC can simply say "no" is the problem. 1 hour ago, 646empire said: They aren’t going to convert the rest of 84.51 into office space for a long time if ever. You guys are forgetting the 200,000 square feet of Class A space they are putting in Fountain Place. Has it been officially announced that 84.51 is going into Fountain Place? Or is this simply one of the worst kept secrets in Cincinnati? In an event, I'm sure 84.51 would rather keep all of their employees in their namesake building, rather than splitting them between two different buildings across the street from each other.
January 16, 20205 yr 18 minutes ago, taestell said: It sounds like the problem isn't really with the design, it's the agreement between 84.51 and 3CDC. The fact that 84.51 can say "we need more space, let's convert those parking levels to office space now..." and 3CDC can simply say "no" is the problem. Has it been officially announced that 84.51 is going into Fountain Place? Or is this simply one of the worst kept secrets in Cincinnati? In an event, I'm sure 84.51 would rather keep all of their employees in their namesake building, rather than splitting them between two different buildings across the street from each other. It hasn’t been announced nor confirmed that the tenant is 84.51 AKA Kroger. I actually think 84.51 would prefer to keep their parking and expand into fountain place rather than expand in the current building and lose their employee parking and have them all walk to nearby garages and parking lots. Anyway this thread is about the convention hotel, sorry!
January 16, 20205 yr 12 minutes ago, 646empire said: It hasn’t been announced nor confirmed that the tenant is 84.51 AKA Kroger. I actually think 84.51 would prefer to keep their parking and expand into fountain place rather than expand in the current building and lose their employee parking and have them all walk to nearby garages and parking lots. Anyway this thread is about the convention hotel, sorry! No company would rather be split between two locations just so their employees can have better parking spots. But if their lawyers were dumb enough to not get expansion rights into the garage in a written contract then that's their fault.
January 16, 20205 yr 3 minutes ago, Cincy513 said: No company would rather be split between two locations just so their employees can have better parking spots. But if their lawyers were dumb enough to not get expansion rights into the garage in a written contract then that's their fault. Parking matters a lot to these companies rather folks want to admit it or not. Companies love on site parking especially for security reasons and with weather such as Ohio. Also this whole “split between 2 locations” argument is silly in my opinion. Fountain Place and 84.51 are literally next door to each other lol. It would be just like if they had a campus style setup in multiple buildings like many companies do. But to get back on topic I don’t think any 84.51 Expansion will involve the millennium site.
January 16, 20205 yr 53 minutes ago, taestell said: In an event, I'm sure 84.51 would rather keep all of their employees in their namesake building, rather than splitting them between two different buildings across the street from each other. Too bad we tore down the never-used skywalk across Race Street.
January 16, 20205 yr 4 minutes ago, ink said: Too bad we tore down the never-used skywalk across Race Street. Good Point.
January 17, 20205 yr Kroger IT, not their 84 51 division, will be taking the space. Allegedly. I've heard from friends in IT that Kroger has been making generous offers for talent the last couple of years. I'd assume offices in the heart of downtown are part of that generosity.
January 17, 20205 yr 1 minute ago, nicker66 said: I've heard from friends in IT that Kroger has been making generous offers for talent the last couple of years. I'd assume offices in the heart of downtown are part of that generosity. For sure. Kroger has rebranded their IT department as Kroger Technology and I think they understand that they have to up their game if they want to compete for top talent. Building new high quality office space downtown is definitely part of that equation.
January 17, 20205 yr When I first got out of school in the mid-2000s, I only applied for Downtown positions at companies. I had no idea how coveted the Downtown slots were as compared to the suburban ones and how intense the competition would be for them (controlling for equivalent roles/responsibility). I didn't get any of the jobs. What I am surprised by is the very slow response by companies to the change. It really only was 20 years (1975-1995) that competition for the suburban jobs was higher yet here we are still dealing with a fad from 1982.
January 17, 20205 yr 48 minutes ago, taestell said: For sure. Kroger has rebranded their IT department as Kroger Technology and I think they understand that they have to up their game if they want to compete for top talent. Building new high quality office space downtown is definitely part of that equation. Isn't Kroger Technology already headquartering in the Atrium complex?
January 17, 20205 yr Yes - "It's just fate, as usual, keeping its bargain and screwing us in the fine print..." - John Crichton
January 17, 20205 yr 6 hours ago, Cygnus said: Yes - Yes... and No, I work for Kroger. The group in the atrium is just Kroger Digital, app development/web. There is a whole bunch of other technology groups in blue ash. I have no idea if they are moving.
January 25, 20205 yr Convention Facilities Authority votes to give Port money to acquire, demolish Millennium Hotel The Hamilton County Convention Facilities Authority voted unanimously on Friday to provide the Port of Greater Cincinnati Development Authority with the money to buy and demolish the Millennium Hotel downtown. The purchase and demolition is estimated to cost $54 million. The site will be sealed once the year-long demolition is complete, said Port CEO Laura Brunner. No parking lot will be built upon it. What’s next isn’t clear. The Port continues to do its due diligence on the hotel purchase from Millennium & Copthorne Hotels, which must be complete on Feb. 14. Meanwhile, the Cincinnati Business Committee and the Cincinnati USA Convention and Visitors Bureau are studying the viability of a new convention hotel, expanded convention center and the region’s needs in terms of a downtown arena. The demolition and purchase probably will exhaust the surplus funds available to the county from the local hotel tax, Brad Ruwe, a Dinsmore & Shohl partner advising the board, told its members. The city already has spent its extra money, having committed it to FC Cincinnati stadium-related infrastructure. That means there will be little to nothing left to build the hotel, expand the convention center itself, help finance a new or rehabilitated arena or any other regional tourism-related priority. Under state law, the hotel tax proceeds generally must be used for tourism related purposes. More below: https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2020/01/24/convention-facilities-authority-votes-to-give-port.html "You don't just walk into a bar and mix it up by calling a girl fat" - buildingcincinnati speaking about new forumers
January 26, 20205 yr Definitely at least 5 years before a new hotel opens on this site with no financial support. Had to happen, but wish City and County were better stewards of funds and leveraged them with other long term funding sources.
January 26, 20205 yr On 1/16/2020 at 10:24 AM, Cincy513 said: Whoever designed the 84.51 building was a complete idiot. It was built way too small. 84.51 apparently has the right to take over the parking garage floors that are above ground, but supposedly 3CDC doesn't want to let them do that so they can continue to make money off the parking. Why they didn't just make the building 3-5 more floors tall is beyond me. They could have just rented out that space until 84.51 needed it. It's highly likely (if not a certainty) that less parking space will be needed in the future with autonomous vehicles. Forward looking developers are building garages with flat floors so they can be converted to a different use in the future. I expect that 84.51 didn't foresee a definite need the extra floors when the building was built and didn't want to build unnecessary floors. With the many office buildings downtown being converted into hotels and apartments with little to no new office construction, it appears there is not much demand for new office space, particularly this late in an economic cycle.
January 27, 20205 yr Ahem: Quote The demolition and purchase probably will exhaust the surplus funds available to the county from the local hotel tax, Brad Ruwe, a Dinsmore & Shohl partner advising the board, told its members. The city already has spent its extra money, having committed it to FC Cincinnati stadium-related infrastructure. That means there will be little to nothing left to build the hotel, expand the convention center itself, help finance a new or rehabilitated arena or any other regional tourism-related priority. Under state law, the hotel tax proceeds generally must be used for tourism related purposes. This is an absolute disaster. One Cranley stooge after another getting paid off with public funds.
January 27, 20205 yr Exhausting the city's and county's hotel tax funds to buy and demolish a hotel, then turning the vacant lot over to Vandercar with no specific plan or obligations in place, is the ultimate screw-downtown-on-your-way-out move that Cranley can get behind.
January 27, 20205 yr Is that what’s happening? My understanding is Vandercaar was basically a third-party matchmaker who gets a cut (still sh*tty) then backs out of the development process once the port takes ownership.
January 27, 20205 yr 7 hours ago, jmecklenborg said: Ahem: This is an absolute disaster. One Cranley stooge after another getting paid off with public funds. They should have built the new hotel on 5th Street and then dealt with the Millenium later. I will never understand the logic in the current plan
January 27, 20205 yr 1 hour ago, Pdrome513 said: Is that what’s happening? My understanding is Vandercaar was basically a third-party matchmaker who gets a cut (still sh*tty) then backs out of the development process once the port takes ownership. The latest Business Courier article doesn't make it clear whether Vandercar will be involved in the eventual redevelopment of that site or not. If a way, it makes it even more shady if Vandercar doesn't even have any part in the redevelopment and simply got paid off for their "help" in acquiring the Millennium.
January 27, 20205 yr 1 minute ago, taestell said: The latest Business Courier article doesn't make it clear whether Vandercar will be involved in the eventual redevelopment of that site or not. If a way, it makes it even more shady if Vandercar doesn't even have any part in the redevelopment and simply got paid off for their "help" in acquiring the Millennium. I sense that he put up a relatively small amount of cash as a bridge loan (earnest money?!!!) but in essence was simply the "realtor". What would be crazy is if they set up a lease and he gets an annual cut from the lease.
January 27, 20205 yr 4 hours ago, taestell said: The latest Business Courier article doesn't make it clear whether Vandercar will be involved in the eventual redevelopment of that site or not. If a way, it makes it even more shady if Vandercar doesn't even have any part in the redevelopment and simply got paid off for their "help" in acquiring the Millennium. That doesn't bother me. Vandercar essentially put the contract together and flipped it to the Port. THey should be compensated for that at the very minimum.
January 29, 20205 yr The garages immediately north of the convention center hold 1,570 parking spaces, according to this diagram from the FCC stadium PD application documents ( https://www.cincinnati-oh.gov/planning/assets/File/Final Development Plan - Stadium.pdf ) (FCC is counting 840 of them as being available during stadium events.) If the powers that be decide to expand the convention center, they may decide that this amount of parking spaces is irreplaceable, thus ruling out expansion to the north over Sixth and then they will say expanding over Elm Street is the only option. So yet another bad urban design choice would be made based off of parking. Edited January 29, 20205 yr by thebillshark www.cincinnatiideas.com
January 30, 20205 yr Quote Liquidation sale scheduled for Millennium Hotel contents A liquidation sale of the contents of the former Millennium Cincinnati Hotel has been scheduled for Jan. 31, starting at 10 a.m. International Content Liquidations Inc. will offer all surplus furniture, fixtures and equipment, as well as all operating supplies and equipment used in the operation of the 870-room hotel. The public sale will continue until sold out, with sale hours of 10 a.m.-5 p.m. Monday through Saturday and Sunday noon-5 p.m. There is a $2 admission. The items that will be sold include the contents of 850 guest rooms, such as 800 flat screen TVs, commercial kitchen equipment, chairs and banquet tables, commercial laundry equipment, office furniture, crystal ballroom chandeliers, carpet and drapes, artwork and other items.
January 30, 20205 yr 20 minutes ago, taestell said: I remember going to the liquidation sale for the Vernon Manor years ago and by the time we got in everything was picked over. However, it was actually pretty cool seeing the history of the old hotel and having access to a lot of areas you would not normally have access too.
February 3, 20205 yr I went to the Millennium liquidation sale on Saturday. It was total pandemonium. The whole place looked like it it was ransacked, like some Katrina/Rodney King looting. They had a hillbilly auctioneer as the gatekeeper and a semi-shady character charging a $2 cash cover that he was probably splitting with the Sheriff's deputy. The merchandise was medium-low quality, but all of those characters who drive from their trailers in West Virginia to Ohio's colleges on move-out day were there. I actually overheard some people who expressed their awe for the dumpy ballroom. People were picking through the linens, as if some fortune was to be found in buying bed sheets. You had the sense you were riding in elevators with people who had never been in an elevator before.
February 3, 20205 yr there's way too many people out there that think they are going to get rich by finding objects. I blame cable TV for this nearly 100 percent.
February 3, 20205 yr 10 hours ago, jmecklenborg said: I went to the Millennium liquidation sale on Saturday. It was total pandemonium. The whole place looked like it it was ransacked, like some Katrina/Rodney King looting. They had a hillbilly auctioneer as the gatekeeper and a semi-shady character charging a $2 cash cover that he was probably splitting with the Sheriff's deputy. The merchandise was medium-low quality, but all of those characters who drive from their trailers in West Virginia to Ohio's colleges on move-out day were there. I actually overheard some people who expressed their awe for the dumpy ballroom. People were picking through the linens, as if some fortune was to be found in buying bed sheets. You had the sense you were riding in elevators with people who had never been in an elevator before. I was thinking of going just to get some outside views photos from the Ballroom (if that is what the top floor is called). Do ya think it is worth the two bucks? Sounds like it might be just for the comedy. I saw the load up area at the back Sunday afternoon and there were cars and uhauls lined up down the block.
February 3, 20205 yr 1 hour ago, SleepyLeroy said: I saw the load up area at the back Sunday afternoon and there were cars and uhauls lined up down the block. It was definitely a scene. Most of the contents of the Millennium will end up piled around trailers in West Virginia.
February 3, 20205 yr 1 hour ago, jmecklenborg said: It was definitely a scene. Most of the contents of the Millennium will end up piled around trailers in West Virginia. Hey now I was born right across the river from WV and alot of my family lives or is from West Virginia. Don’t make me get my brother cousin down here.
February 8, 20205 yr I'm even more confident a new hotel won't open in less than 5 years on the Millennium site. Maybe the over/under should be 10 years. Maybe the bet should be: Which gets completed first: a hotel on this site or the Brent Spence Bridge replacement? https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2020/02/07/millennium-hotel-project-54-million-and-counting.html Edited February 8, 20205 yr by thesenator shorter link
February 8, 20205 yr 1 hour ago, thesenator said: I'm even more confident a new hotel won't open in less than 5 years on the Millennium site. Maybe the over/under should be 10 years. Maybe the bet should be: Which gets completed first: a hotel on this site or the Brent Spence Bridge replacement? https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2020/02/07/millennium-hotel-project-54-million-and-counting.html I disagree. But we shall see. In the mean time I’m hoping to see construction start on The Kimpton, Fourth and Walnut Hilton’s, and the 7th and Race Marriott TownePlace ASAP. Cincinnati REALLY needs more rooms.
February 8, 20205 yr 2 hours ago, 646empire said: I disagree. But we shall see. In the mean time I’m hoping to see construction start on The Kimpton, Fourth and Walnut Hilton’s, and the 7th and Race Marriott TownePlace ASAP. Cincinnati REALLY needs more rooms. 7th and Race towneplace is under construction now, 4th and Walnut is suppose to still happen. Kimpton at the traction building is confusing. Don't forget the gywnne building to be a hotel as well.
February 9, 20205 yr 15 hours ago, savadams13 said: 7th and Race towneplace is under construction now, 4th and Walnut is suppose to still happen. Kimpton at the traction building is confusing. Don't forget the gywnne building to be a hotel as well. Costs of renovating these historic buildings are a challenge, but I think all 3 of the unstarted developments will happen as all are still being worked on. It’s just taking longer than many expect to get the projects started. Unfortunately the Terrace Plaza appears to have the least chance of success due the damages from many years of neglect. Edited February 9, 20205 yr by thesenator
February 9, 20205 yr ^Is there anything structurally wrong with the Terrace Hilton other than it's a big cube with no windows topped by a replica of UC's Dabney Hall?
February 10, 20205 yr 6 hours ago, jmecklenborg said: ^Is there anything structurally wrong with the Terrace Hilton other than it's a big cube with no windows topped by a replica of UC's Dabney Hall? The last construction crew that partially dismantled the cooling tower on the hotel tower portion created massive holes in the roof that has been letting the outside in the building. Last time I was in there the mold was not healthy can only imagine the damage of rain and snow are doing to the structure.
February 10, 20205 yr 2 hours ago, savadams13 said: The last construction crew that partially dismantled the cooling tower on the hotel tower portion created massive holes in the roof that has been letting the outside in the building. Last time I was in there the mold was not healthy can only imagine the damage of rain and snow are doing to the structure. That's crazy. Doesn't work like that require a permit, and if so, who permitted it?
February 10, 20205 yr 6 hours ago, jmecklenborg said: That's crazy. Doesn't work like that require a permit, and if so, who permitted it? It was one of those emergency repairs done awhile back. The previous owner used two idiots and a truck construction crews. I remember watching them dismantle the brick wall around the cooling tower and just throwing the bricks all over the roof.
February 11, 20205 yr Yes the roof is a mess and the top 2 floors destroyed by water and mold. As you go further down it gets better, but still has been totally neglected for 20 plus years.
February 11, 20205 yr This is from the tour they had 2yrs or so ago. the roof membrane that used to be sealed to the side walls here was all pulled off (i think because the copper flashing was scrapped) and the membrane was ripped up in spots. That cooling tower has framing that was rusted clear through in spots too.
February 12, 20205 yr Haha! Not that i know but ive been to many of the weird tours and walks about town. Hopefully more now once it warms up I love seeing the more obscure places, I think the last bigger one was the US Chili building that the Preservation Collective put together.
February 13, 20205 yr Kearney: Port’s award of Millennium contract ‘unjust and unfair’ By Chris Wetterich – Staff reporter and columnist, Cincinnati Business Courier Feb 13, 2020, 2:48pm EST Updated 2 hours ago The CEO of the Cincinnati & Northern Kentucky African American Chamber of Commerce sharply criticized the Port of Greater Cincinnati Development Authority’s decision to award a contract to redevelop the Millennium Hotel without competitive bidding. “This is unjust and unfair,” said Eric Kearney, the former state lawmaker who leads the region’s black chamber, in a statement Thursday. “Input from the African American Chamber and other economic development organizations should have been solicited by the CEO of the Port.” MORE
February 23, 20205 yr Fountain Square Far West in the making? https://www.cincinnati.com/story/news/politics/columnists/politics-extra/2020/02/20/millennium-hotel-can-cincinnati-avoid-another-development-disaster/4787256002/ Edited February 23, 20205 yr by thesenator clarify
February 23, 20205 yr 3 hours ago, thesenator said: Fountain Square Far West in the making? https://www.cincinnati.com/story/news/politics/columnists/politics-extra/2020/02/20/millennium-hotel-can-cincinnati-avoid-another-development-disaster/4787256002/ I feel like the Port Authority needs to just come out and level with the public on what’s going on here. Theres too much money involved and too many of what seem from the outside to be massive red flags that I would hope that there’s more to this plan than what is made public. Overpay for a large functioning hotel to demolish it with no concrete plan or financing to replace it- when you already own a large buildable lot a block away- seems so insanely dumb and risky that there just has to be more to this you’d hope...
February 24, 20205 yr On 2/23/2020 at 4:01 PM, Guy23 said: I feel like the Port Authority needs to just come out and level with the public on what’s going on here. Theres too much money involved and too many of what seem from the outside to be massive red flags that I would hope that there’s more to this plan than what is made public. Overpay for a large functioning hotel to demolish it with no concrete plan or financing to replace it- when you already own a large buildable lot a block away- seems so insanely dumb and risky that there just has to be more to this you’d hope... I agree, this is really starting to seem very odd and backwards. The public is really watching this transaction/project and I hope government officials know that.
February 25, 20205 yr Yeah, it's a giant scam. Just like everything else that happens under Cranley. Remember when talk radio went bonkers for several years over Mallory's proposal to create an event space at City Hall? Jesus.
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