June 27, 200816 yr 860k units to break even? It obviously can be done more efficiently than that or independent labels wouldn't exist. Again, not true. independents don't have the overhead of a major label. Their audience is much smaller and their marketing and distribution channels are very different. independents, business plans very by label and are less constructed allowing them to sell less and via different channels. So their projects, could break even. Also, in my post above, I forgot to throw in Music Video production, marketing and promotions. The artist pays for that as well.
June 27, 200816 yr ^They recorded something like 10 albums, they never really ran out of ideas. Kraftwerk and Devo in concert makes sense...a lot mroe than the crazy free concert I went to around 1995 with C&C Music Factory & UB40 opening for The Village People. Kraftwerk was off the chain. You said it, brother. Can you do the line dance to this song?
June 27, 200816 yr You said it, brother. Can you do the line dance to this song? Can I dance?! You know I can!! Hell, what family gather DON'T you do it at?!
June 27, 200816 yr You said it, brother. Can you do the line dance to this song? Can I dance?! You know I can!! Hell, what family gather DON'T you do it at?! Family Gatherings, Congregation picnics, Grad parties...I was glad to see the people here in the Burgh do line dance (both white and black) but they don't know TEE or Cleveland Shuffle...I guess I'll have to school them :-)
June 27, 200816 yr Again, not true. independents don't have the overhead of a major label. Their audience is much smaller and their marketing and distribution channels are very different. so true, the economics change with the scale of the project. but it is so easy to break even on an independent record label, depending on the genre of music of course. taking that next step to making a living at it, well, that is a tough get. also the money is getting worse thanks to high gas prices and the like. it costs twice as much just to start the van. this effectively kills the casual touring band, because you need to put in enough time to fill the tank, etc. I imagine the price of gass will start to show up in ticket prices any day now.
June 29, 200816 yr ^Come on, it's already insanely expensive to go to most concerts. It was like $6 to go to /huge/ concerts in the 1970's when they had festival seating, now even club shows are at least $40 and it's $40 to sit on the lawn out at those outdoor places like Riverbend. I've been to several hundred local shows over the years but I've only been to maybe 3 arena shows and no stadium shows. I've had press passes to some big shows because I was taking photos at them but come on, the amount of money is ridiculous for what you get. My brother and a friend jumped the fence to get into Bonaroo this year, they ended up meeting some girls in the woods looking to do the same. Damsels in distress. Today I was at a "family function", which is a rare opportunity for me to see kids watch TV. I had never seen the Disney Channel until today, it was totally disgusting. I got an ill feeling what amounted to a 24-hour superstition machine. There was a show called "Rock Camp" where they went to some camp to learn to rock but give me a break. And all the music was all about fame...especially kids thinking they deserve to be famous. Everything was about clothes and fame and everyone looked and sounded exactly like top 40 California junk. Seriously, if any of these Disney dudes had come walking down the street where I grew up looking and acting the way they do on TV, they'd get torn up. Incidentally I decided to drive past my old house today, and there were some satisfyingly intense-looking 14 year-old aspiring thugs patroling the street on their beat-up dirt bikes. They were blocking the street but I knew how to get them to move.
June 29, 200816 yr ^Come on, it's already insanely expensive to go to most concerts. It was like $6 to go to /huge/ concerts in the 1970's when they had festival seating, now even club shows are at least $40 and it's $40 to sit on the lawn out at those outdoor places like Riverbend. I've been to several hundred local shows over the years but I've only been to maybe 3 arena shows and no stadium shows. I've had press passes to some big shows because I was taking photos at them but come on, the amount of money is ridiculous for what you get. My brother and a friend jumped the fence to get into Bonaroo this year, they ended up meeting some girls in the woods looking to do the same. Damsels in distress. There were more concerts in the 70 so the cost was low. Also, take into consideration that the production of today's shows versus a show in the 70's. In the 70's you didn't have as many "home" entertainment options, as you do today, so going out to a concert was a big deal.
June 30, 200816 yr Wanna know who REALLY planted the seeds of the music industry's demise? A fellow named Philip Kives... Long before Now That’s What I Call Music was a gleam in Richard Branson’s eye, there was K-Tel. For kids in the 1970s and early 1980s that didn’t have the cash to buy every single they liked, much less an album, K-Tel was the affordable pipeline to the hits of the day. Philip Kives was a salesman who hailed from Winnipeg, Manitoba. Much like S.J. Popeil, he’d started out selling kitchen gadgets, and eventually decided to branch out in to record albums. His idea – cram some 20 to 25 songs on one LP (the average album at the time held about a dozen songs) and pitch them on rapid-fire TV commercials. The ads were ahead of their time; serious musical artists of that era didn’t advertise on television, and young music buyers were mesmerized when they heard a succession of five-second snippets of their favorite tunes on TV. Then there was the price factor; at at time when a 45 rpm record cost 69 cents, K-Tel offered the equivalent of 20 45s for the low price of $4.99. Kives cut costs by using ultra-thin (read: cheap) vinyl for his albums, and mastered the records at a lower volume, resulting in very thin grooves that allowed for more songs on each side. http://www.mentalfloss.com/blogs/archives/12913
July 3, 200816 yr K-Tel was just a corners cutting way of doing the same thing. No major shift. The real death knell for the music distribution industry as-we-knew-it was the first time a song was converted into a WAV (or similar format) file. Digital reproduction, unlike analog, does not neccesarily degrade quality each time its duped. Once said files were merged with the 'net and e-mail, forget it. Also, sound quality became less important because lower quality tracks use less bandwidth and storage space.
June 16, 20177 yr Time for a thread revival! Love this article Steve Earle: Bad Country Music Just 'Hip-Hop for People Who are Afraid of Black People' http://www.nashvillescene.com/music/nashville-cream/article/20864796/steve-earle-bad-country-music-just-hiphop-for-people-who-are-afraid-of-black-people
June 17, 20177 yr The "industry" part in its traditional form is doing badly for the same reason buggy whip manufacturers did. Music itself? Not so bad. It's fragmented and de-collectivized, but that's not a bad thing. https://www.theguardian.com/music/2014/nov/17/steve-albinis-keynote-address-at-face-the-music-in-full
June 17, 20177 yr ^I remember reading that piece several years ago and don't completely agree with it. Incidentally, there are a few guys in the punk rock world who owned their own labels in the 90s and now sit on truly insane piles of cash. Ian Mackaye, Fat Mike from NOFX, Hellcat Records, etc. Several of those guys are worth upwards of $50 million just from selling scads of records that sold fewer than 50,000 copies.
June 17, 20177 yr ^I remember reading that piece several years ago and don't completely agree with it. Incidentally, there are a few guys in the punk rock world who owned their own labels in the 90s and now sit on truly insane piles of cash. Ian Mackaye, Fat Mike from NOFX, Hellcat Records, etc. Several of those guys are worth upwards of $50 million just from selling scads of records that sold fewer than 50,000 copies. Most of the basic points were completely true. Bands had no oversight over costs that could be "recouped", and the various middlemen often didn't give a damn about the ultimate consumers or producers. They could spend someone else's money to build their own influence. And they controlled whether or not bands got heard, outside of live shows.
June 17, 20177 yr ^I remember reading that piece several years ago and don't completely agree with it. Incidentally, there are a few guys in the punk rock world who owned their own labels in the 90s and now sit on truly insane piles of cash. Ian Mackaye, Fat Mike from NOFX, Hellcat Records, etc. Several of those guys are worth upwards of $50 million just from selling scads of records that sold fewer than 50,000 copies. Most of the basic points were completely true. Bands had no oversight over costs that could be "recouped", and the various middlemen often didn't give a damn about the ultimate consumers or producers. They could spend someone else's money to build their own influence. And they controlled whether or not bands got heard, outside of live shows. Well pop music isn't anything now like it was in the 70s-90s, and so because there isn't a canon, there is nothing specific for underground artists to react against. Meanwhile, new bands are so accessible that there is no mystery. Entire realms of being a music fan are gone -- the record store and album artwork. I spent a lot of time in record stores when I was a teenager going through every single record or CD in a particular section. You could gain a lot of information on stuff you had no acute interest in. Sure, you can waste a bunch of time on the internet now, but it's not the same because there isn't a visceral, physical object. Album artwork doesn't exist anymore. Most new music videos put up by unknown acts are dull and everyone's sick of the look of DSLR video. I went into Guitar Center this week for the first time in a few years. It was a sad place. Lots of just plain empty space in the store where there used to be stacks of amps. The carpet is torn up and no money has been put into the place. The spark of energy that used to be in every music store -- even the big chain ones -- is gone.
June 17, 20177 yr The Columbus and Dayton Guitar Centers appear to be doing fine, but it seems that much of the emphasis is indeed on the electronic, DJ and banjo fronts.
June 17, 20177 yr I'm sure they're still making bank on synths, drum machines, and dj equipment. Around 2008 I was in the exact same Guitar Center (near Tri-County Mall) and went over to the DJ area and started hitting some buttons and twisting knobs on some dumb little box. Some guy asked me if I was a DJ. I looked at him bewildered and said no I just started hitting buttons and twisting knobs.
June 21, 20177 yr Time for a thread revival! Love this article Steve Earle: Bad Country Music Just 'Hip-Hop for People Who are Afraid of Black People' http://www.nashvillescene.com/music/nashville-cream/article/20864796/steve-earle-bad-country-music-just-hiphop-for-people-who-are-afraid-of-black-people Yep, bad mainstream rap and country music are both about namedropping what brand of alcohol you drink and what brand of car/truck you drive. You just choose your flavor based on whether you like southern accents and steel guitars or computer generated beats. Of course there is good music in both of those genres that does not fall into that trap.
June 21, 20177 yr I'm sure they're still making bank on synths, drum machines, and dj equipment. Around 2008 I was in the exact same Guitar Center (near Tri-County Mall) and went over to the DJ area and started hitting some buttons and twisting knobs on some dumb little box. Some guy asked me if I was a DJ. I looked at him bewildered and said no I just started hitting buttons and twisting knobs. That was back when you hit buttons, and twisted knobs. Now you just hit play.
June 21, 20177 yr ^Yes, I remember a British paper's preview of a DJ festival around 2014 which described each guy by saying "XXX DJ will press play on his laptop at 11pm, to be followed by YYY who will press play on his at 1am". I couldn't find it but here is a similar one: http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/article/20218681/do-superstar-djs-just-press-go-on-their-live-shows
June 21, 20177 yr Time for a thread revival! Love this article Steve Earle: Bad Country Music Just 'Hip-Hop for People Who are Afraid of Black People' http://www.nashvillescene.com/music/nashville-cream/article/20864796/steve-earle-bad-country-music-just-hiphop-for-people-who-are-afraid-of-black-people Yep, bad mainstream rap and country music are both about namedropping what brand of alcohol you drink and what brand of car/truck you drive. You just choose your flavor based on whether you like southern accents and steel guitars or computer generated beats. Of course there is good music in both of those genres that does not fall into that trap. Lifestyle Music
June 21, 20177 yr ^Yes, I remember a British paper's preview of a DJ festival around 2014 which described each guy by saying "XXX DJ will press play on his laptop at 11pm, to be followed by YYY who will press play on his at 1am". Which makes me wonder why places in the flats, warehouse district, and w25th continue to pay hundreds of dollars a night for a guy to hit play on a 21st century mix tape when a Pandora station will do the same for 3.99 a month. No seriously, at a previous job there were nights where the DJ didn't show and that's what we did. Nobody noticed the difference.
June 21, 20177 yr ^Yes, I remember a British paper's preview of a DJ festival around 2014 which described each guy by saying "XXX DJ will press play on his laptop at 11pm, to be followed by YYY who will press play on his at 1am". I couldn't find it but here is a similar one: http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/article/20218681/do-superstar-djs-just-press-go-on-their-live-shows From the article: "I used to perform with a band putting all sorts of work into a live show and I can tell you that the reaction was worse than it is when I'm DJ'ing." Yeah, that's called sucking. And pretty much verifies what I've known all along about DJ's and EDM "musicians", they do what they do because they can't hack being real musicians, but want the rockstar life.
June 21, 20177 yr When I was a young lad around 1985 I remember watching a DJ work a wedding reception. I watched for about five songs and had it figured out... -get two record players -while one song is playing, use headphones to cue up next song -as song 1 fades out, hit crossfader to the second record -periodically voice encouragement to crowd to come out and dance and clap for the bride & groom -dim lights for ballads The only thing I found impressive about it was how big the DJ's record collection was. Otherwise, the whole thing bored me to death. Meanwhile, any live music I saw at a wedding or event got 100% of my attention, even if it was a polka band.
June 21, 20177 yr ^Yes, I remember a British paper's preview of a DJ festival around 2014 which described each guy by saying "XXX DJ will press play on his laptop at 11pm, to be followed by YYY who will press play on his at 1am". Which makes me wonder why places in the flats, warehouse district, and w25th continue to pay hundreds of dollars a night for a guy to hit play on a 21st century mix tape when a Pandora station will do the same for 3.99 a month. No seriously, at a previous job there were nights where the DJ didn't show and that's what we did. Nobody noticed the difference. We used to have a DJ some weekend nights, quit paying for itself years ago. Some parties bring one in. Only thing I miss is him having to listen to me about playing calmer music (when IMO it's needed to keep the crowd under some semblance of control) and stopping at the right time to close on time.
June 21, 20177 yr ^What's up with the karaoke DJ ego? I mean, seriously. You show up with some microphones and some sound gear and have a binder with a bunch of songs in it and the girls come up and request a song. How impressive.
June 22, 20177 yr ^What's up with the karaoke DJ ego? I mean, seriously. You show up with some microphones and some sound gear and have a binder with a bunch of songs in it and the girls come up and request a song. How impressive. I'm sure the ego comes from "the girls come up" part. Same as with bartenders and security.
June 23, 20177 yr Meanwhile, we have a glut of guitars on the market. https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2017/lifestyle/the-slow-secret-death-of-the-electric-guitar/
June 23, 20177 yr I didn't know things were that bad. If you listen to what's popular now you'll notice that not just the guitar is turned down, but almost all of the instruments except the drums. ALL of the melody comes from the vocals. Only electronic music is coming up with good instrument melodies and it has to be from specific genres within electronica or specific acts. There's very little in the way of inspiring riffs or basslines even on rock radio. Avenged Sevenfold are the only ones playing real licks and they've been around 15 years already.
June 23, 20177 yr Also, I hate to say it since they're such fine instruments, but Les Pauls are totally overpowering the entire industry and have been for 15 years. That really stagnated the business.
June 23, 20177 yr In 2001 I saw Chuck D give a talk on the college lecture circuit. Early in the talk he noted that he was proud of the rise of hip-hop but resented that it killed off the guitar. He recalled when he was a kid seeing people strumming guitars on front stoops all over the place but in the 1980s that disappeared. I've seen hundreds of unknown bands and have probably only see 2 or 3 bands with a black guitarist who was raised in the hip-hop era. The most sensitive music "fans" in the world are electronic music fans. They take it so damn seriously when it's an unlistenable joke! Too bad we can't dig up Buddy Rich and put him on stage at one of these DJ fests.
June 23, 20177 yr In 2001 I saw Chuck D give a talk on the college lecture circuit. Early in the talk he noted that he was proud of the rise of hip-hop but resented that it killed off the guitar. He recalled when he was a kid seeing people strumming guitars on front stoops all over the place but in the 1980s that disappeared. I've seen hundreds of unknown bands and have probably only see 2 or 3 bands with a black guitarist who was raised in the hip-hop era. The most sensitive music "fans" in the world are electronic music fans. They take it so damn seriously when it's an unlistenable joke! Too bad we can't dig up Buddy Rich and put him on stage at one of these DJ fests. I imagine most people don't have a clear grasp of what goes into making a good electro track. It generally requires greater understanding of compositional elements than rock music, and greater attention to details like precise frequency ranges. I think electronic music also lends itself to more interesting songs and compositions since it's not limited by guitar/bass/drum arrangements or human muscles. I'd much rather listen to the latest Katy Perry or Weeknd track than any generic, muddy, 90s grunge song.
June 23, 20177 yr Most of the problem with bad electronic music has to do with the composer not recognizing that good melodies are important.
June 23, 20177 yr Electronic music people think they're free-soling El Capitan when all they're doing is fumbling around the climbing wall at their campus rec center.
June 24, 20177 yr When I was a young lad around 1985 I remember watching a DJ work a wedding reception. I watched for about five songs and had it figured out... -get two record players -while one song is playing, use headphones to cue up next song -as song 1 fades out, hit crossfader to the second record -periodically voice encouragement to crowd to come out and dance and clap for the bride & groom -dim lights for ballads The only thing I found impressive about it was how big the DJ's record collection was. Otherwise, the whole thing bored me to death. Meanwhile, any live music I saw at a wedding or event got 100% of my attention, even if it was a polka band. lol -- a wedding dj no, that kind of straight up dj'ing has nothing to do with the process and everything to do with style and choice -- if you want an example of doing that right, we follow ny night train around religiously, toubin is my boy --- he plays 60s soul nugget 45s & has guests, bands and a dance party. one of his recent flyers was h-bomb ferguson so thats pretty deep for non-cinci people: http://www.newyorknighttrain.com here's a blurb: "A couple weeks back, I was at the awesome Beachland Ballroom in my hometown of Cleveland, Ohio, when I was lured into the venue's adjoining tavern by a throng so frenzied I thought Lady Gaga must have made an impromptu drop-by. Nope -- it was New York City DJ Jonathan Toubin, whose Soul Clap & Dance-Off has grown from its humble Brooklyn-underground beginnings to a national phenomenon. Armed with an exceptional collection of vintage soul and R&B 45s, Toubin has been crisscrossing the country, spinning tunes while dancers compete for the grand prize (in Nashville, $100). The scene in Cleveland was bonkers, as sweaty contestants -- identified by numbers on their backs -- writhed, squirmed, shimmied and bounced the night away, while onlookers cheered, laughed and gawked at the incredible display of flailing bodies." (Nashville Scene, 2011)
June 24, 20177 yr Electronic music people think they're free-soling El Capitan when all they're doing is fumbling around the climbing wall at their campus rec center. Idk, I think there's bad electronic music just like there's bad guitar music. I don't understanding dismissing music based solely on the tools that are employed in its production. That sort of biased thinking can lead one to miss out on some great music. A man has to have a code I guess though?
June 24, 20177 yr When I was a young lad around 1985 I remember watching a DJ work a wedding reception. I watched for about five songs and had it figured out... -get two record players -while one song is playing, use headphones to cue up next song -as song 1 fades out, hit crossfader to the second record -periodically voice encouragement to crowd to come out and dance and clap for the bride & groom -dim lights for ballads The only thing I found impressive about it was how big the DJ's record collection was. Otherwise, the whole thing bored me to death. Meanwhile, any live music I saw at a wedding or event got 100% of my attention, even if it was a polka band. lol -- a wedding dj no, that kind of straight up dj'ing has nothing to do with the process and everything to do with style and choice -- if you want an example of doing that right, we follow ny night train around religiously, toubin is my boy --- he plays 60s soul nugget 45s & has guests, bands and a dance party. one of his recent flyers was h-bomb ferguson so thats pretty deep for non-cinci people: http://www.newyorknighttrain.com here's a blurb: "A couple weeks back, I was at the awesome Beachland Ballroom in my hometown of Cleveland, Ohio, when I was lured into the venue's adjoining tavern by a throng so frenzied I thought Lady Gaga must have made an impromptu drop-by. Nope -- it was New York City DJ Jonathan Toubin, whose Soul Clap & Dance-Off has grown from its humble Brooklyn-underground beginnings to a national phenomenon. Armed with an exceptional collection of vintage soul and R&B 45s, Toubin has been crisscrossing the country, spinning tunes while dancers compete for the grand prize (in Nashville, $100). The scene in Cleveland was bonkers, as sweaty contestants -- identified by numbers on their backs -- writhed, squirmed, shimmied and bounced the night away, while onlookers cheered, laughed and gawked at the incredible display of flailing bodies." (Nashville Scene, 2011) Great, but who made those albums he was spinning in the first place? Not him. And who'll make the next round of great albums? Not him.
June 26, 20177 yr ^ the question is who will know about that music without him publicizing it like that? its not his job to do both that and to create new music. he's the dj, he's bringing it, which btw does include some of the live acts that created it. so if somebody likes this rawkus nostalgic party music enough to be inspired to make new music they can take it from there. otherwise, it all just dies away eventually. i would the say a bit of the popular super localized homemade hiphop music scene is about as close as it gets these days to those old party records.
June 26, 20177 yr I think it's just the trend, melody has little to no meaning. Unlike most of my age and melanin content, I've liked a lot of hip hop over the years. But these days when I'm working can suck. Drake I find monotonous, and "Future" is popular but he just plain sucks. Both get played a lot.
June 28, 20177 yr I was in Cracker Barrel this past weekend...they're selling new record players under the Crosley name: The new Chuck Berry LP: Country & Christian CDs: New pop CDs:
June 28, 20177 yr When I was a young lad around 1985 I remember watching a DJ work a wedding reception. I watched for about five songs and had it figured out... -get two record players -while one song is playing, use headphones to cue up next song -as song 1 fades out, hit crossfader to the second record -periodically voice encouragement to crowd to come out and dance and clap for the bride & groom -dim lights for ballads The only thing I found impressive about it was how big the DJ's record collection was. Otherwise, the whole thing bored me to death. Meanwhile, any live music I saw at a wedding or event got 100% of my attention, even if it was a polka band. You're right, it's easy to dj if you pay attention, just like it's easy to play power cords or pick out a melody on a guitar. It takes practice dedication and hard work to be a musician in any genre. There are amazing guitar players and amazing djs. But there are also tons of terrible ones. For example i was at the pride festival at Sawyer point Saturday and there was a dj performing, playing a lot of more recent pop stuff as well as ymca. I could barely stand the fact that every one was dancing around like crazy and loved him considering he could not accurately beat match any single song to another. The kicker was at the end of the set they said he is a professional dj on q102! I was beside myself.
June 28, 20177 yr ^ the question is who will know about that music without him publicizing it like that? You're kidding? How does anyone know about all the music out there that isn't lame dance claptrap? Concerts, maybe? Talking to other people with similar musical tastes? Browsing record stores, or YouTube or Pandora? Scene Magazine, Rolling Stone, Pitchfork? DJ's play little role in getting out the good music.
June 28, 20177 yr I was in Cracker Barrel this past weekend...they're selling new record players under the Crosley name: If i remember right from reading his biography decades ago Powell Crosley sold the electronics and appliance divisions off to fund his passion for autos and broadcasting. It seems that the CROSLEY brand name was brough back by a Canadian company in the 90's. They were pretty big at one point in that they had a consumer record player to CD combo that you could use to copy records. http://www.crosleyradio.com/about/
June 28, 20177 yr I was in Cracker Barrel this past weekend...they're selling new record players under the Crosley name: The new Chuck Berry LP: Country & Christian CDs: New pop CDs: fye's on the Crosley train as well. They don't seem to get great reviews. I got a Technics 1200 about 13 years ago so that I don't have to take any crap from crummy record players. Old people want CDs bad. Can you blame them? It's nice being able to get a hold of music without getting a computer or the phone involved. They're always coming in to work wanting CDs but I don't know if they'd want a bunch of people's old Backstreet Boys CDs from middle school -- which is what we'd invariably end up with. Old people also want handheld LCD poker games badly. Radio Shack always had those.
June 28, 20177 yr ^ the question is who will know about that music without him publicizing it like that? You're kidding? How does anyone know about all the music out there that isn't lame dance claptrap? Concerts, maybe? Talking to other people with similar musical tastes? Browsing record stores, or YouTube or Pandora? Scene Magazine, Rolling Stone, Pitchfork? DJ's play little role in getting out the good music. no, i didnt say anything about all music, i clearly said who will know that music, meaning...that music. like the beachland blurb i can confirm all those toubin shows are absolutely packed and popular like that all over the world. also, there are few concerts for this style of music outside of what he brings, because most of those nugget 60s acts are obscure, dead or broken up and forgotten. you just don't get dj's like that with style and taste, plus concerts and dance parties online, so it's quite a fun scene if you like that genre and he is clearly a major force in keeping it alive and well.
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