My wife and I currently live in Atlanta, which is the typical southern sprawling city.  This is not to say Atlanta doesn't have upsides; relatively affordable housing, a good job market, natural beauty, etc.  But due to the crime, traffic, and increasing costs, we both want to leave in 1 year. 

 

She's from NE Ohio and wants to go back to Cleveland.  I've been to Cleveland about 4-5 times and really liked the historic buildings, the people, the lake, certain neighborhoods, the affordable housing, the art, etc.  However, I have big concerns about moving up there.  It seems the population continues to decrease, there appears to be a lack of a diverse job market, limited number of jobs, the housing market seems slow, and the school system insufficient. 

 

Are there improvements in these areas that aren't making the news?  It seem Cleveland is focusing on development of the downtown area and is focusing on attracting younger people to the city.  It appears the city is trying to turn things around.  Are there more promising signs, or are my concerns justified.  Any comments will be appreciated. 

 

J. Rollins,

 

Welcome to UrbanOhio!   :wave:

 

Come on home!

 

Medical, research, insurance and the arts are big in Cleveland, however the service sector is increasing.  The region is stagnant (per the government) in regards to population, however the area on research indicates that to be different, but that is another topic.  Clevelands city schools are on par with Atlanta's but the suburban districts (god, I hate to say this) are great.  Also there a many private schools in the city proper.

 

For relocation information I suggest you visit the relation thread

http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php?board=20.0

 

For developments throughout Cleveland I suggest you spend some time reading about the many projects taking place in the city and region.

 

If you have any questions just ask in the appropriate thread and people will give you a straight up real answer.

Welcome to the forum.

 

To be honest, those concerns are legitimate but as with anything in life - it's relative to your situation. As MyTwoSense said - healthcare, finance, and the legal field are pretty healthy. Some fields could use improvement, but that can be said about a lot of areas. To give you my perspective - I've worked as a graphic designer in Cleveland for over 13 years; Cleveland doesn't have a reputation for being a hotbed for design jobs but I've managed to stay in the field this long with progressively better positions. If you can give us more information about the type of work you and your wife are in, we might be able to point you in the right direction. The housing market is by no means robust, but you'll find that (as with anything) it's location, location, location. For example, ten years ago a small worker's cottage in the heart of the Tremont neighborhood (currently one of the healthier up-and-coming areas) would sell for less than $30,000. They now sell for over $100K, and are usually on the same block as $400K townhomes. Conversely, you have areas that are diplomatically described as "distressed". If you're looking to do a HGTV "flip" and reap $250K profit (a la California), you'll be disappointed. But, there are plenty of decent homes of just about any variety that are affordable and many in areas where values are stable and/or modestly increasing.

 

As MyTwoSense said, the schools aren't the best (though better than in the past) but there are inner-ring suburbs that offer proximity to the city amenities, a urban "vibe" and built environment, and good schools.

 

If you'd like to see an overview of some of the major projects underway in Cleveland, visit this thread I created at the skyscraperpage.com forum: http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=97396

Help us help you:

 

1. Do you have children or are you thinking about having some in the future?

2. Do you prefer: downtown living, close-in neighborhoods, older suburbs or cul-de-sac existence?

3. job field

4. are you in your 20s, 30s, 40s...

5. how much would you like to spend on a house? do you want a condo? townhome? a detached house?

Welcome to the forum, J. Rollins.

 

Certainly, I think those are reasonable concerns to consider, not only for Cleveland but for any city you might be relocating too. That being said, I think there's a lot positive going on here that you would find of interest:

 

- Amenities: As you've noted, Cleveland has a lot of great amenities and is working to capitalize on them. The city and state are becoming far more committed to preserving historic buildings. The city is working to create more access and use of the lake. The neighborhoods are being revitalized by a nationally renowned network of community development corporations. Housing is among the most affordable of any major metropolitan area in the country. And we have an incredibly diverse and large arts and culture scene.

 

- Population: While it is true that the population of the city is decreasing and has been since the 1950s, the population of the region is remaining stable and has since the 1950s. The issue is that many people have elected to move out to the suburbs. We are seeing that trend reverse, with Cleveland now leading other municipalities in new construction. The new historic tax credit being offered by the state will also give the city-proper a market edge, as it will create a new market for historically rehabilitated space, which as you note, Cleveland has a lot to work with. Moreover, the city is becoming more and more savvy with its community development efforts both in and outside of downtown. While these neighborhood investments aren't showing up yet in population gains, Census numbers do show that educational attainment levels are slowly starting to increase. And we also have seen a large repopulation of the city on both the Near West Side and the University Circle area, with pockets of higher-income, higher-education levels moving back into Cleveland proper. That trend is likely to continue.

 

- Job Market: Cleveland, like most of Ohio, has suffered from a slow recovery from the early 2000s recession, mostly due to declines in the manufacturing sector. This manufacturing decline has hit Cleveland pretty hard, as it was a huge component of our traditional economic base. But while the transition has been painful for the local economy, it is resulting in a stronger more diversified economy based on our existing competitive strengths. Cleveland is fast becoming a national leader in medical innovation and bioscience. We have built upon our strong technology infrastructure to encourage tech startups within the city. A group is currently working to co-locate design businesses in and near downtown, capitalizing on our outstanding industrial design capabilities. Foundations and municipal leaders are leading the way in building major capabilities in production and innovation around alternative energy. And recently, we passed a countywide tax that will generate $20 million annually in support of expanding and solidifying our powerhouse arts and culture sector. The economic position for Cleveland is definitely looking up.

 

- Housing Market: Cleveland's housing market has slowed, but to date, we haven't been as affected by the national housing slump as much as many metropolitan areas. Properties are staying on the market longer, but our major development projects are still on line. Thousands of new upscale units are planned in our downtown, with feasibility studies showing that downtown could eventually grow to 25,000 residents (currently, estimates place the number at somewhere between 8,000 and 12,000, depending on how you define downtown); the West Side's largest housing development in decades is currently being built in Detroit-Shoreway in close proximity to the lake, Cleveland's EcoVillage and an emerging arts and culture district at Gordon Square; and University Circle has has plans for thousands of new housing units, backed up by a multi-million dollar investment by Charter One Bank, capitalizing on estimates that 10,000 jobs will be added to the neighborhood economy in the next 10 years. This is just a sampling of the rebirths occurring in Cleveland's neighborhoods ... I would highly recommend also checking out Ohio City, Tremont, Edgewater, Old Brooklyn, Asiatown, Little Italy and Shaker Square. All in all, the market is looking pretty decent, with the city poised for some considerable in-migration from the suburbs.

 

- School System: Cleveland once had one of the best public school systems in the country. Over the last several decades, the system has declined considerably. That being said, state assessments have shown some marked improvements over the last several years, although the indicators are still pretty bad. A new superintendent is exploring opportunities for "academy"-type schools, district-wide requirements for school uniforms and a number of other reforms that may make a substantial dent in urban school problems, problems that I'm sure you're aware are not isolated to Cleveland. Cleveland is also home to a lot of innovation in school choice vouchers. These programs are controversial, but many have established truly innovative approaches to education. We also have a very strong private school system, including very strong parochial schools. At the collegiate level, the region is home to the nation's oldest and largest college access program (Cleveland Scholarships Program), as well as nationally competitive programs in urban policy, medicine, accounting, industrial design, fashion design, to name a few. Cleveland is also home to one of the most established philanthropic communities in the country (birthplace of Business Volunteers Unlimited, United Way and the Cleveland Foundation, the oldest and second largest community foundation in the country), and this group is making some considerable investments in improving the public education system. Recently, the foundation community has talked about investing funds in educational opportunities in University Circle in preparation for a large in-migration in that neighborhood.

 

So move to Cleveland! I'm a transplant myself, and from my vantage point, Cleveland offers an outstanding quality of life that I simply could not afford in most metropolitan areas. Our city is far from perfect, we have lots of issues we are addressing, but I think you'll find it is a surprisingly amazing place.

^8 Shades,

 

well said.

^8 Shades,

 

well said.

 

Ditto!  8shades, Where were you living prior to Cleveland?

Before Cleveland, I was doing undergrad just south of Indianapolis. Cleveland was a pit stop on my way to a dream job on the Hill, a city proximate to Indiana that I moved to simply so that I could take advantage of an exceptional graduate program in urban policy and one of the most liberal congressional districts in the country. But along the way, I accidentally fell in love with Cleveland, scrapped my plans for DC and have been here for 5 years now. Let that be a lesson for you potential transplants ... this place gets under your skin  :-)

this place gets under your skin  :-)

 

I guess?!

Thanks for all the input.  We are both in our thirties and like living in an urban area.  The places we are considering are: Shaker Heights, University Heights, Coventry(?), etc.  I'd like to check out Ohio City and Tremont.  We are planning on having kids in the next 3-5 years.  My wife works in the retail/apparel industry and I'm in finance.  One of the reasons we are leaving Atlanta is due to the high costs.  You cannot afford to live in a safe, in-town neighborhood for under $400k.  Cleveland seems very affordable. 

 

The first time I visited Cleveland, I was surprised the city has so much to offer.  I especially liked the older neighborhoods, the history, arts scene, and the downtown area, although I was a little disappointed in the lakefront.  I was expecting more of an accessible lakefront, like Chicago.  I read there may be new development regarding this. 

 

I've been doing some extensive reading on the city and this website helps.  I wanted to get input from people living in Cleveland about their thoughts on the city.  We are still in the consideration stage.  Thanks.

 

J.

 

Thanks for all the input.  We are both in our thirties and like living in an urban area.  The places we are considering are: Shaker Heights, University Heights, Coventry(?), etc.  I'd like to check out Ohio City and Tremont.  We are planning on having kids in the next 3-5 years.  My wife works in the retail/apparel industry and I'm in finance.  One of the reasons we are leaving Atlanta is due to the high costs.  You cannot afford to live in a safe, in-town neighborhood for under $400k.  Cleveland seems very affordable. 

 

The first time I visited Cleveland, I was surprised the city has so much to offer.  I especially liked the older neighborhoods, the history, arts scene, and the downtown area, although I was a little disappointed in the lakefront.  I was expecting more of an accessible lakefront, like Chicago.  I read there may be new development regarding this. 

 

I've been doing some extensive reading on the city and this website helps.  I wanted to get input from people living in Cleveland about their thoughts on the city.  We are still in the consideration stage.  Thanks.

 

J.

 

 

The areas you are interested in are all the inner ring burbs.  Coventry is a neighborhood in the suburb of Cleveland Heights.  Cleveland Heights & University Heights share a school district and Shaker Heights has its own.  both are top notch.

 

the lakefront is being changed to allow more access as 8shades mentioned earlier.

 

Culturally, Cleveland has some of the best venues in the world.

 

Keep asking questions and if you could answer the four questions that 3231 asked, we'll get you on your way to Cleveland.

I live in the Tremont neighborhood with my partner (so the kid issue isn't an issue with us), and aside from the newest of the new townhomes, just about everything worth mentioning is under $400K. Here's an example of the newer homes in the area, priced at $320K: http://www.progressiveurban.com/cgi-bin/search.cgi?view_details.x=1&mls=2392385&current_page=1&OfficeName=Progressive+Urban+Real+Estate&searchtype=Search_PURE_Listings&listcount=&sort=&resolution=&featured=1

 

And one under $250K: http://www.progressiveurban.com/cgi-bin/search.cgi?view_details.x=1&mls=2384144&current_page=8&OfficeName=Progressive+Urban+Real+Estate&searchtype=Search_PURE_Listings&listcount=&sort=&resolution=

 

Let us know when you'll be visiting and we can recommend an itinerary of places to hit (bars, restaurants, etc.). As far as jobs, the finance sector is pretty healthy in the city (KeyBank, National City Bank and AmTrust are HQ'd here; Charter One (a RBS bank) has their regional HQ here, and we have one of the twelve Federal Reserve Banks here; there are some brokerage firms as well, but I'll have to get back with you on that. The retail/apparel sector in the city is improving, but depending on what we're talking about, your wife might have to work in the 'burbs until some of the proposed projects come online.

 

 

Love the Blue door, on the brownstone.

Cleveland's population is indeed declining, primarily because of the job concerns you mentioned, and causing the slowness in the housing market.  They are all essentially the same issue.  That said, it matters alot what field you are going into, as has been said upthread.

 

Finance should be a good field to be in here in Cleveland, as we have alot of banks and financial institutions, as well as other large corporations.  I'm not sure about retail/apparel- if your wife is working in the more retail end of things, it is probably ok compared to other cities, but I don't know about the production and design side. 

 

The housing market is slow, but if you get into the right neighborhood, you should see some appreciation.  It's really the flip side of Atlanta and other rapidly growing cities.  If there was steep appreciation everywhere, you wouldn't be seeing the affordable options you have now.  Pick your poison, I suppose.

 

The Lakefront is going to be opened up for public use more, but it will take some time.  And I do mean a matter of years.  But still, Edgwater is a nice park if you are on the west side, and there are some options on the east side as well, though I don't know them as well, I don't think they have the amenities or level of activity that Edgewater has.

 

Definitely check out Ohio City and Tremont.  Unless you're interested in Downtown, which it doesn't sound like you are, these two neighborhoods offer some of the best urban living in Cleveland.  You might also check out Lakewood (an inner ring burb), Edgewater, Detroit Shoreway, Little Italy, or North Collinwood.

 

Schools are tricky, and generally not so good in city limits.  There are alot of charter and other private schools in Cleveland.  You could research those to see if they meet your inclinations and quality requirements.  If you buy new housing in city limits, it comes with a 15 year tax abatement, which is in practice often used by buyers to put a child through parochial school.  The Cleveland Public School District is also working on creating more specialized schools that should draw from the entire city as well as surrounding suburbs, though they aren't using the term "magnet" schools. 

Be sure to check out Detroit Shoreway/Gordon Square/Battery Park, it is roughly W.60-W70th from Detroit Ave. to the Lake.  There is good connections to the lake from this neighborhood and there are many really exiting things happening in this neighborhood.  Search any of the words Detroit Shoreway/Gordon Square/Battery Park on the main forum screen and you can read all about it.

I am an ex-pat living in Chicago, but if I get a chance to move home, that is the area where I would move.

sorry if this is not appropriate b/c a realtor made the site, but this is one of the most well organized urban cleveland  real estate sites I have seen. I need to poke around a little more but it may just be congregate settings as opposed to single family, but it is pretty well done.

 

http://www.highrises.com/city/cleveland/

 

edit:this link probably belongs somewhere else, but where? ANyway Cleveland is a treat for people not from the area. rent first and find your dream neighborhood. I  think a lot of us have moved around neighborhoods a little.

Cool site. Thanks for sharing it! A lot more highrises could be included -- like those in  Lakewood (Gold Coast), Bratenahl, Euclid, Rocky River etc. etc. I suspect this is an early incarnation though.

this place gets under your skin  :-)

 

Cleveland does get under your skin. In a totally good way. I've been living in NYC for the past 7 years, and I miss Cleveland so much. It's really an amazing city; maybe I'm biased because I was born and raised there. I dunno. There's something about that city that I love, though. I think about moving back all the time, but as a graphic designer, I'm just not sure if it's where I want to be right now. Decisions, decisions.

Jpop, welcome aboard!

 

You should check with MayDay (a moderator of this site) and a graphic designer. He can tell you more about the opportunities in Cleveland when it comes to graphic design.

Thanks for the welcome! I love this forum .. I've been looking for something like this for a long time. Other people passionate about their great city. :)

 

So, MayDay .. whaddaya say? Can we chat about that sometime?

Cool site ... Did anyone see the under $100,000 properties? There's a 3-bedroom, 2-bath, 1,686 sq. ft. unit at Moreland Towers being offered for $39,900! What's the deal with that?!

 

http://www.mlsfinder.com/oh_normls/jacoblohser2/index.cfm?action=listing_detail&property_id=2349932&searchkey=ceffbdbd-a56b-745d-0a22-563b21ca84ca&npp=10&sr=21

Cool site ... Did anyone see the under $100,000 properties? There's a 3-bedroom, 2-bath, 1,686 sq. ft. unit at Moreland Towers being offered for $39,900! What's the deal with that?!

 

http://www.mlsfinder.com/oh_normls/jacoblohser2/index.cfm?action=listing_detail&property_id=2349932&searchkey=ceffbdbd-a56b-745d-0a22-563b21ca84ca&npp=10&sr=21

 

Its bad on the inside.  very dated.  There are a few fixer-uppers on shaker blvd. I think some folks are intimidated by having to do that much work.  I was thinking of flipping one across the street but the numbers didn't work out right.

 

When 3231 was looking I think he saw a couple of fixer uppers in the complex.  The problem is the maintence fees, they are now sky high. 

maintenance fees $1,751

How does someone look a potential buyer in the eye and keep a straight face while saying "maintenance fees are $1,751."?!?

How does someone look a potential buyer in the eye and keep a straight face while saying "maintenance fees are $1,751."?!?

 

...by saying the price is under $40K.

Those are the new fees for the new residents.  In defense, the buildings have top notch white glove services that many of these new developments don't even offer.

 

 

How does someone look a potential buyer in the eye and keep a straight face while saying "maintenance fees are $1,751."?!?

 

is that per month?!?!

is that per month?!?!

 

YES

In defense, the buildings have top notch white glove services that many of these new developments don't even offer.

 

What type of services are these that warrant such a high monthly fee?  For that price, someone better be cleaning my place, cooking all my meals, doing my laundry, etc.

From what I understand, there were some serious upgrades that were made to this building that have lead to the high maintenance costs. Its a grand, gorgeous complex that was built just after WWI.

In defense, the buildings have top notch white glove services that many of these new developments don't even offer.

 

What type of services are these that warrant such a high monthly fee?  For that price, someone better be cleaning my place, cooking all my meals, doing my laundry, etc.

 

but it's also what happens when the original condo fees were not enough for repairs - ie new roof or elevator.  someone has to pay, and since you own it collectively, most condo agreements spread the cost. 

 

same problem at grand arcade downtown.  lots of units for sale after the maintenance fees went up for repairs. 

In defense, the buildings have top notch white glove services that many of these new developments don't even offer.

 

What type of services are these that warrant such a high monthly fee?  For that price, someone better be cleaning my place, cooking all my meals, doing my laundry, etc.

 

Well after a series of fires in the late 90s which almost burned down my particular building the adjacent building and the western tower bulding, people got upset & worried.  This is a community were approximately 75% (150 units total) of the people who live here do not have a mortgage.  We outright own our units.  So the vote to increase fees went up and a improvement loan was requested even though the building has a huge cash reserve.

 

Right now those fees are helping with an estimate 12-15 million dollar upgrade of the complex.

Valet parking in heated garage complex

Landscaping

Normal maintence

white glove package, grocery, laundry delivery to your unit

some people have all utilities paid

building insurance

Security

 

you name it, they try to make it happen.

 

Except for the fire/leaks and issues with me renovating my apartment because of the buildings historical status I've been more than pleased with living here.

 

 

 

Cool site ... Did anyone see the under $100,000 properties? There's a 3-bedroom, 2-bath, 1,686 sq. ft. unit at Moreland Towers being offered for $39,900! What's the deal with that?!

 

http://www.mlsfinder.com/oh_normls/jacoblohser2/index.cfm?action=listing_detail&property_id=2349932&searchkey=ceffbdbd-a56b-745d-0a22-563b21ca84ca&npp=10&sr=21

 

I just did some research the twin unit is on the market or sold for around 270k.  So I'm pretty sure this unit (if its the same one I saw) needs some major work.  The person(s) that lived there probably have been there for decades, as many of the residents have, and have probably done little to modernize the unit.

was this the building that had a special assessment or something like 100,000 back 2003 or so? yes, i typed that right! When we were looking to immigrate into the city we looked around Shaker Square, and the places were gorgeous, but there was one building, I cannot remember, that had a huge special assessment pending and everyone was selling. That is the downside of condos, those assessments (not the monthly fee) can a suprise you and drain your bank account. Make sure the reserves are there. the good news is all this must be disclosed. Just make sure you are paying attention.  I think the big steals these days are at the water front marine tower in Lakewood. I do not think they are on that site though.

ok. so I am looking at the site, and see a favorite I had in l2003. What a sweet little place in Asia Town. it wasnt finished at the time, but it was listed at 199,000 (what a difference-30,ooo less) I am glad we moved to the flats which I love. But this is such an awesome place, I cannot believe the price dropped. I think sometimes the unique does not fly just yet in the cleve

 

http://www.mlsfinder.com/oh_normls/jacoblohser2/index.cfm?action=listing_detail&property_id=2386236&searchkey=d1a109fd-c5fa-2577-bab5-eb887459fddd&npp=10&sr=1

John Q's is hosting a special meeting for residents of the Warehouse District, Tuesday July 17th. The program begins at 7pm and is scheduled to 8:30pm. The meeting will be for residents to discuss the recent events in the WHD and to express concerns about the future of the district. Please RSVP for this event by calling Kelly at 344-3937.