Their website is up but no info on the opening:

 

http://www.euclid-tavern.com/

Wow i was certainly going to check it out, but it sounds pretty antiseptic from the article. I can understand the renovations, but once in a while I like rolling rock and punk just fine.

 

And i have a friend who is gonna say "I told ya so" because he's always bitching that Cleveland has completely lost its soul and how he was robbed of Captain Franks, North Coast Harbor, the Flats, hookers on prospect etc. etc. etc.

 

But as far as the "Yuke" goes, I'll never forget when my band played there in 95, everything was perfect and we had our best show ever. And there was like 15 people in the whole place but it was still so cool.

SurfOhio, there's still lots of grit, soul, color and character left in this town. Many of them are illegal, like gambling joints, brothels, smokehouses -- but we generally tend to find out about them after they get busted by the police. So it always seems like these places exist in the past. They don't. You just have to look under rocks to find them.

Oh yeah, I would assume that. It's my friend that's always complaining about Captain Franks, Flats, etc.

SurfOhio, there's still lots of grit, soul, color and character left in this town. Many of them are illegal, like gambling joints, brothels, smokehouses -- but we generally tend to find out about them after they get busted by the police. So it always seems like these places exist in the past. They don't. You just have to look under rocks to find them.

 

That's true.  I think I've  noticed alot of those along Dennison.

I've contemplated starting a thread called "Underground Cleveland" with that sort of thing. I used to be the webmaster at www.clevelandmob.com so I know how to cover this stuff without getting sued. I'm just worried that a few others wouldn't know how to discuss this stuff without crossing legal boundaries.

University Circle has culture and jobs; now it wants residents

Posted by Tom Breckenridge February 17, 2008 04:47AM

Categories: Impact

 

For those who believe Cleveland is in inexorable decline, come to tranquil Wade Park lagoon and take a 10-minute stroll in any direction.

 

You'll see evidence of a boomtown. Orange barrels and construction fence are as familiar as the world-class landmarks, new and old, that have undergone big-ticket makeovers in University Circle.

 

With $2.4 billion in projects built or under way since 2000, the University Circle area is growing bigger. City leaders -- and residents in struggling neighborhoods nearby -- want it to grow better...

 

 

more at:  http://www.cleveland.com

^ Wow...The Plain Dealer does positive stories about Cleveland two Sundays in a row!  Good article.

^ Wow...The Plain Dealer does positive stories about Cleveland two Sundays in a row!  Good article.

 

I'm not sure, but I think hell just froze over!

Nice article.

 

Edit: Sadly, a couple of sheltered, paranoid suburbanites threw in their ignorant comments to the article on Cleveland.com

I really hate that comment capability on cleveland.com. Some people have some really thoughtful things to say, but then others really solidify my cynicism about Clevelanders at large.

^Read the Cincinnati threads.  The posters there are always complaining about ignorant comments about Cincy by suburbanites.  I am sure this happens all around the country.  Why put down Cleveland in this regard? 

Having grown up in Cleveland for most of my life, it seems that ignorance is rampant there more than other more progressive cities that I've been to. I can't say, from my own personal observation, that Cleveland is a city that is generally overflowing with educated viewpoints; it has historically been an industrial city, and therefore, until more recently, people weren't required to obtain secondary educations. I think this causes the ignorant viewpoints in my aforementioned comment.

 

I honestly don't want to discuss this further because it's an off-topic line of discussion. I apologize if my remark offended you or anyone else. It is, however, my opinion based on years of living in Cleveland and years of living in a vastly more progressive city, NYC.

Having grown up in Cleveland for most of my life, it seems that ignorance is rampant there more than other more progressive cities that I've been to. I can't say, from my own personal observation, that Cleveland is a city that is generally overflowing with educated viewpoints; it has historically been an industrial city, and therefore, until more recently, people weren't required to obtain secondary educations. I think this causes the ignorant viewpoints in my aforementioned comment.

 

I honestly don't want to discuss this further because it's an off-topic line of discussion. I apologize if my remark offended you or anyone else. It is, however, my opinion based on years of living in Cleveland and years of living in a vastly more progressive city, NYC.

 

Jpop(tart) I agree to a degree.  at your age, how many "progressive" cities have you lived in? Not just visitied?  All that glitters insn't gold and I'm sure you realize that.  Example, people always say what a great waterfront Baltimore has, its a few blocks, yet a few blocks away from that "great" waterfront, you are in the straight up hood!

 

My position is that Cleveland's changing economy has quite a few people out on a limb, in the past it was easy to get another low skill or blue collar job, however, with the economy diversifying and changing to  high tech/white collar/research, those with little or no education are finding it increasingly harder to find another low skill job with decent wages. In addition, with many young upwardly mobile (AKA young, broke and wanna be fabulous) people moving into the city with their "I gotta have it now" attitudes and mentalities we'll see a change in the perception of the city of Cleveland.  You can already see it in the near west side, now I'm starting to see it in Detroit-Shoreway and Sterling-Payne and University Circle/Hough/Fairfax.

 

^Read the Cincinnati threads.  The posters there are always complaining about ignorant comments about Cincy by suburbanites.  I am sure this happens all around the country.  Why put down Cleveland in this regard? 

I'm in DC right now, I just left breakfast and at the restaurant three couples from MD were complaining about how black, dangerous and ghetto DC is and that they would never come into DC alone especially after dark cause they could get kidnapped or mugged.  :roll: :roll:  One couple was from Phily and said things in DC are just as bad as in Philly which is why the relocated far into the 'burbs of MD. 

 

So people it's not just metro Cleveland its EVERYWHERE.

Most people get their image of inner city life from watching CSI or the 6:00 Murder Report, err, "News".  Of course they're fearful of everything associated with the inner city.

Chris Ronayne is certainly the right man for the UCI job -- UCI, (with all due respect to David Shuster) historically, has been pimped by UH in every land grab its wanted with little conception or drive to create the retail/residential-centered walkable community Ronayne envisions.  Once again, though, I'd like to know more particularly about the financing hurdles/efforts Zaremba is facing to know how likely a mid-2009 Uptown groundbreaking is.

That article is the first I have heard of the idea to connect I-490 with UC via a Boulevard.  Sounds like a good idea.  Also sounds like an idea that will never even make it to the drawing board, let alone construction.

 

Such a move would seem to ease traffic congestion from the west and, to a degree, the north (coming up through the park).

Read all about it!  http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php/topic,2267.0.html

 

I was about to recommend www.innerbelt.org, but it appears that ODOT hasn't paid their domain registration fee this year...

Found these on Studio Graphique's website (www.designwithdirection.com). Comments?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

^I like it.  My only complaint is that it is somewhat confusing anyway at the Euclid-Chester intersection and may be difficult to read the sign in time. 

 

The "timeline" for updating the congestion at the old trolly turnaround (which currently looks like a triangle instead of a circle ironically enough) is scheduled in the next three years...correct?

 

Also, anyone know the background information on these designs?  i.e. are they working for the city or did they just think it would be a good idea??

Studio Graphique's website says that the client is University Circle, Inc.

^I like it.  My only complaint is that it is somewhat confusing anyway at the Euclid-Chester intersection and may be difficult to read the sign in time. 

 

The "timeline" for updating the congestion at the old trolly turnaround (which currently looks like a triangle instead of a circle ironically enough) is scheduled in the next three years...correct?

 

Also, anyone know the background information on these designs?  i.e. are they working for the city or did they just think it would be a good idea??

 

The old trolley turnaround is on Euclid Ave just after 107. The reconstruction of the traffic circle is at 105 and MLK. The timeline for construction is correct. Look for some changes to the surrounding landscapes as well.

 

I'm not a fan of the signs, although I think that changes definitely need to be made. I think that they are too large. UCI is also going to do new signage up and down Rockefeller Park as well as in Wade Oval. They've hired two different firms. I think that is a bad idea. We need more continuity in this area.

I agree with you on both counts, 3231. I like the fact that Studio Graphique was going for signage that was a bit more unique, but I think they've gone TOO unique. UC needs signage that doesn't stick out like a sore thumb, yet is coherent with the rest of the neighborhood.

 

Therein lies the challenge.

I think the are circleriffic, or arctastic.

 

 

Found these on Studio Graphique's website (www.designwithdirection.com). Comments?

 

um...ewwww??? I agree that "something" needs to be done, but this SO ain't it... the signs themselves aren't bad , but the "arctastic" (love that word, punch) brackets take up what looks to be a cubic buttload of footprint space...

I was about to recommend www.innerbelt.org, but it appears that ODOT hasn't paid their domain registration fee this year...

 

So, just what is the plural of "doofus" (doofii?), and how many of them work at ODOT? Sorry, but domain name renewals are bloody simple, and completely unnecessary if you register the domain name for a period sufficient to cover the project -- some registrars even offer 100-year registrations now...

 

 

 

My first impression was not negative, but today I'm starting to think this design has a bit of an "airport" feel. Just replace "W Euclid Ave" with "Rental Car Return" in your mind...

they need to eliminate the red portions of the sign above the arch.  If the entire sign was "circular" it would be a better visual connector to the area.

Am I the only person who's tired of modern art's overemphasis of gradients and simple shapes?

^ Modern art? This is wayfinding signage - should they replicate Parisian Metro signs? :? Considering the amount of signs they'll need to produce, simple shapes will keep costs down.

 

As someone who has had to design signage on this scale, it can be incredibly frustrating. You have to come up with an aesthetically appealing design, but the verbiage basically has to club people over the head (aka actually work for people to find their way). Here are some changes I would recommend - with apologies to Studio Graphique - they usually do a great job, but I think there are a few tweaks that might help make this design more functional.

 

 

1. Move the landmark/destination feature sign up - one bus or truck would block it, making the current location worthless. Good idea to add "featured destination" signage but it could be more visible. Also, extend the arc so feature signage can be placed on either side of structure.

2. Create more of a gap/separation between the destinations on the left and right columns. The current bars would blur together at typical vehicular traffic speeds.

3. Enlarge the directional arrrows.

^wait, someone who not only criticizes on the internet, yet also offers up their solution explicitly?

 

That's unpossible!

3. Enlarge the directional arrrows.

 

Agreed, there is a lot of wasted space below "downtown"

I disagree that it's wasted space per se - that space helps break up the bulk of the information cluster. I just think that the arrows are specifically geared for vehicular motorists - given that, providing larger directional arrows will help them select their lane before they're right on top of the sign.

I think if they got rid of all that grey background, it would help in terms of it being less of an obstruction. I think it would help to improve the design as well.

It's hard to tell if that's just a solid matte grey field, brushed metal, or some kind of mesh - I think mesh would work, as well as help with wind resistance (oh yeah, in addition to working and looking cool, these things have to endure brutal weather conditions!)

It's hard to tell if that's just a solid matte grey field, brushed metal, or some kind of mesh - I think mesh would work, as well as help with wind resistance (oh yeah, in addition to working and looking cool, these things have to endure brutal weather conditions!)

 

I was thinking the same thing.  i still think the read corners should be eliminated so that it's a curved sign.

It's hard to tell if that's just a solid matte grey field, brushed metal, or some kind of mesh - I think mesh would work, as well as help with wind resistance (oh yeah, in addition to working and looking cool, these things have to endure brutal weather conditions!)

 

The materials are all durable metal and the grey you're looking at is a metal mesh.  The sign pieces are interchangeable, so that when institutions move or names change (Case/CWRU/etc.), the methods of the old wine-colored wayfinding system won't be replicated.  You can see the old names behind the new ones on the existing signs...

 

Good suggestions, MayDay.  I think that there have already been updates made to this sign's design, as recommended by both the Univ. Circle Design Review Committee and City Planning.

 

Also, as you can see, there are several different scales to this system.  The one being discussed in the past few posts will only be found at a couple gateway locations.  The others pictured previously will be more prominent throughout the neighborhood and a pedestrian scale system is forthcoming.

^ Modern art? This is wayfinding signage - should they replicate Parisian Metro signs? :? Considering the amount of signs they'll need to produce, simple shapes will keep costs down.

 

I wouldn't mind the Parisian Metro signs. :)

 

Maybe it's just that I tend to like classically-styled things better, but to me the modern designs seem extremely boring.  Too many straight lines and perfect curves.  Not being an artist, I can't put it into words to well, other than to say a perfect example of what I can't stand isn't so much the signs themselves, but whatever that red upside-down V-type structure is to the left of the sign.  It just screams "UGLY" at me.

I just personally would like to see them make less of a statement.

 

I wouldn't mind the Parisian Metro signs. :)

 

Maybe it's just that I tend to like classically-styled things better, but to me the modern designs seem extremely boring.  Too many straight lines and perfect curves.  Not being an artist, I can't put it into words to well, other than to say a perfect example of what I can't stand isn't so much the signs themselves, but whatever that red upside-down V-type structure is to the left of the sign.  It just screams "UGLY" at me.

 

That's not an upside down V - that's the view of the entire sign if you were to stand completely perpendicular to it:

 

 

And a three-quarter view:

 

"I just personally would like to see them make less of a statement."

 

:?

 

 

^ Modern art? This is wayfinding signage - should they replicate Parisian Metro signs? :? Considering the amount of signs they'll need to produce, simple shapes will keep costs down.

 

I wouldn't mind the Parisian Metro signs. :)

 

Maybe it's just that I tend to like classically-styled things better, but to me the modern designs seem extremely boring.  Too many straight lines and perfect curves.  Not being an artist, I can't put it into words to well, other than to say a perfect example of what I can't stand isn't so much the signs themselves, but whatever that red upside-down V-type structure is to the left of the sign.  It just screams "UGLY" at me.

 

This is a classically designed "thing."  It's vintage 1994.

I'm not sure how to word it, either. I just think they stand out too much. I love the circular/arc component to it. But, personally, I would like to see less sign.

I'm not sure how to word it, either. I just think they stand out too much. I love the circular/arc component to it. But, personally, I would like to see less sign.

 

So you want a sign that isn't visible?

^wait, someone who not only criticizes on the internet, yet also offers up their solution explicitly?

 

That's unpossible!

 

The reigning champion ^^^ :roll:

I'm not sure how to word it, either. I just think they stand out too much. I love the circular/arc component to it. But, personally, I would like to see less sign.

 

So you want a sign that isn't visible?

 

Somewhat, yes.

am I the only person who doesn't mind these?

 

Also don't forget, that most of the signs are pretty standard street signs.... only the major intersections get these more decorative "gateway" type signs.

I don't know that I like these.  Maybe.  But I think someone hit it on the head when they said they look "airport-like".  The problem is that the vast sweeping arcs create a sense of movement- high speed movement.  That sounds cool, but is that the idea that we want to convey in the Circle?  Aren't we trying to tame UC's streets and connective tissues to make a place that people feel free to relax and take their time?  Something less "swoopy" would bring it down a notch and better match our aspirations for this area.

That's not an upside down V - that's the view of the entire sign if you were to stand completely perpendicular to it:

 

LOL, I realized that after I posted.  That angle is horrible and I'll just have to know not to stand directly perpendicular to the signs and stare at them. :)

 

And a three-quarter view

 

I actually like the signs a lot better seeing them from that view.  Maybe my lack of artistic talent makes it hard for me to visualize what these would actually look like in the actual context they will be placed in.  Here's hoping the artists know better than I do.

It's okay - for a second, I thought they were some inverted homage to the East 4th "torches".

am I the only person who doesn't mind these?

 

Also don't forget, that most of the signs are pretty standard street signs.... only the major intersections get these more decorative "gateway" type signs.

 

You're not alone. I don't mind them at all.