May 1, 20178 yr It would've needed to be replaced eventually, but was not in urgent need of replacement. If you go back and read from the beginning of this thread, the reason this project was pushed (according to ODOT) is that it was similar to the bridge that collapsed in Minneapolis. I suspect that the real reason ODOT wanted to push this project forward so fast is that: "The design accommodates future widening of I-71 by having sufficient bridge width to allow three, 12-foot-wide lanes with shoulders of unspecified width." That, and the fact that federal funding was paying for 90% of the cost of the project, due to the "it's going to collapse!" fear mongering.
May 1, 20178 yr It was also one of those "shovel-ready" projects that the feds were all too happy to throw money at.
May 1, 20178 yr It was also one of those "shovel-ready" projects that the feds were all too happy to throw money at. The DOT's usually have a number of projects completely designed, waiting around to be funded. This might have been one of them.
May 1, 20178 yr Considering that Kentucky combined a circa 1946 and circa 1963 in 1998 to form a six-lane bridge, the Jeremiah Bridges could have been filled in (http://bridgestunnels.com/bridges/kentucky/clays-ferry-bridge/). This was done, though, without terrorism concerns (pre 9/11).
May 1, 20178 yr Terrorism? Is that even ever a part of this? Fracture critical structures are just bad ideas in general and because we as a country can't maintain anything for shit they become problematic. That's a legitimate reason to replace a bridge. I can't imagine 9/11 had a thing to do with that decision here.
May 2, 20178 yr One of my friends works as a PIO for the KYTC and they had to put out some releases after 9/11 regarding the safety of the Clays Ferry Bridge. Not long after, they installed a lot of security cameras monitoring the bridge from all angles (underneath, along the trusses, above).
May 11, 20178 yr Another attempt to demolish bridge will close I-71 this weekend Southbound Interstate 71 will be closed once again for a fourth attempt at demolishing a section of the former Jeremiah Morrow Bridge, WCPO reports. I-71 South will be closed between State Route 73 and State Route 48 from 6 a.m.-11 a.m. on Sunday. Northbound I-71 could also be closed intermittently during that time along with the Little Miami Scenic River and Trail. More below: http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2017/05/11/another-attempt-to-demolish-bridge-will-close-i-71.html "You don't just walk into a bar and mix it up by calling a girl fat" - buildingcincinnati speaking about new forumers
May 18, 20178 yr Yet another demolition attempt will close Warren County bridge Road closures are planned again on Sunday on and around the section of Interstate 71 that crosses the Little Miami River near the former Jeremiah Morrow Bridge in Warren County, the Journal-News reports. It would be the fourth time motorists and others are inconvenienced to complete demolition of the old Jeremiah Morrow Bridge in Oregonia. More below: http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2017/05/18/yet-another-demolition-attempt-will-close-warren.html "You don't just walk into a bar and mix it up by calling a girl fat" - buildingcincinnati speaking about new forumers
May 22, 20178 yr Here’s how the latest attempt to demolish a Greater Cincinnati bridge went A stubborn section of the former Jeremiah Morrow Bridge over the Little Miami River is still standing after a crew’s fifth attempt to bring it down on Sunday, WCPO reports. The latest blast, however, may have dropped the steel enough for workers to look into other options to bring the steel down. More below: http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2017/05/22/here-s-how-the-latest-attempt-to-demolish-a.html "You don't just walk into a bar and mix it up by calling a girl fat" - buildingcincinnati speaking about new forumers
August 6, 20177 yr I-471 widening project takes priority over Brent Spence Bridge NEWPORT, Ky. — A new plan to widen Interstate 471 has leaped ahead of other high-profile projects that have been on the Kentucky transportation priority list for years. The plan is to widen I-471 from Newport to Highland Heights. Advertisement A new data-driven scoring program ranks the I-471 project at No. 7 on the state’s priority list, eclipsing the Brent Spence Bridge project, which ranks at No. 12. http://www.wlwt.com/article/i-471-widening-project-take-priority-over-brent-spence-bridge/11524418
August 6, 20177 yr That article doesn't go into specifics, but I would hope they would change the ramps with I-71 to allow two lanes to continue north/south to give a better bypass of Brent spence. There also needs to be two lanes at the connection of I-275 to complete the bypass effect. I would also hope that the long planned Newport exit 5 rework would be included in this project to improve that poorly planned 'temporary' alignment.
August 7, 20177 yr That article doesn't go into specifics, but I would hope they would change the ramps with I-71 to allow two lanes to continue north/south to give a better bypass of Brent spence. There also needs to be two lanes at the connection of I-275 to complete the bypass effect. I would also hope that the long planned Newport exit 5 rework would be included in this project to improve that poorly planned 'temporary' alignment. They better with the ridiculous 1.8 billion price tag. Even replacing all bridges not including the Big Mac should not cost almost 2 billion.
August 7, 20177 yr The roadway is only 5 miles long from the south side of the Big Mac to NKU. So that's $400 million per mile to add one lane in each direction.
August 7, 20177 yr The Ohio River bridge would not be widened - it's already four lanes, two of which could be through lanes if the ramps to I-71 were widened in Ohio. But this focuses on Kentucky where portions are already four lanes if you count the auxiliary lanes between interchanges. I would have thought this would be on a lower priority than smaller "gotcha" projects, such as improving the I-471 merge with I-275 (where there is a left lane/right lane merge), the Exit 5 completion (mentioned earlier)...
August 7, 20177 yr Is this even remotely necessary? I hardly recall this highway ever being super congested. Or is this the old, "it's crowded at rush hour so we'll try to fix it with more lanes even though every single study ever has shown this does the exact opposite of reducing congestion" move?
August 7, 20177 yr Is this even remotely necessary? I hardly recall this highway ever being super congested. Or is this the old, "it's crowded at rush hour so we'll try to fix it with more lanes even though every single study ever has shown this does the exact opposite of reducing congestion" move? Isn't the Big Mac Bridge "functionally obsolete" because it lacks emergency lanes? “All truly great thoughts are conceived while walking.” -Friedrich Nietzsche
August 7, 20177 yr Yes. When they widened the bridge from 3 to 4 lanes in each direction and removed the emergency shoulders, it became "functionally obsolete" just like the Brent Spence Bridge. Don't remind KTC or they might push for a new Big Mac span as well.
August 7, 20177 yr In the late 90s I remember 1-2 news stories that contemplated building a third tied arch bridge. If they do that and the Brent Spence then Kentucky could charge tolls on both interstate highway crossings. I don't know why they would care to do that. Perhaps the huge $2 billion cost includes the cost of this additional bridge. As many of us have already discussed, an array of small local bridges would do a ton to get local traffic off the interstate bridges. A trio of bridges at the Anderson Ferry, connecting Race/Madison, and connecting Dayton, KY with Delta Ave. would each cost under $100 million. They could even charge a $1 toll at the ferry and Dayton, KY locations if they really want to collect a toll so badly. Remember, somehow the Cincinnati Eastern Bypass is only going to cost $2 billion.
August 7, 20177 yr Well Kentucky is still stubbornly refusing to accept that fact that tolls are needed to finance the new BSB. I guess they think Elaine Chao is going to show up and hand them a check for $3 billion dollars. Ideally, the Port Authority would be given control of all the interstate river crossings and they could toll each one as improvements are made to it. That way it will eliminate the incentive for people to change their route to use an alternate free bridge, since they would all be tolled.
August 7, 20177 yr Somehow the same characters who are declaring there is no need for fixed rail transit or more buses because driverless cabs are going to put them out of business are also arguing for expansion of the interstate highways.
November 2, 20177 yr The parkway concept goes back to the beginning of the automobile era. The 1907 Kessler Plan proposed the construction of Central Parkway, Victory Parkway, and Columbia Parkway, as well as some others that didn't get built. The idea was to separate traffic, and keep all commercial traffic and streetcars off of the parkways. In the case of Central Parkway, the concept extended to Western Hills Viaduct, where the commercial traffic and streetcars used the lower level, and the top level connected to Central Parkway. The concept somehow carries on today, with signs saying "No trucks allowed; local shipments must enter at nearest side street" or something like that. For Columbia Parkway especially, the grades and curves are probably not very good for trucks. And then in 2016, we put the streetcar on the parkway (for two blocks).
April 6, 20187 yr ^According to Wiki, the Valley View Bridge is only 212'. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valley_View_Bridge The Jeremiah Morrow Bridge(s) are 239' tall.
May 2, 20187 yr Hopefully the City of Cincinnati will add some pedestrian improvements to Central Parkway once the Court and Walnut project (new Kroger tower) is completed. There is plenty of opportunity to narrow the parkway between Walnut and Main, add pedestrian bump-outs, and well-marked crosswalks.
May 2, 20187 yr Hopefully the City of Cincinnati will add some pedestrian improvements to Central Parkway once the Court and Walnut project (new Kroger tower) is completed. There is plenty of opportunity to narrow the parkway between Walnut and Main, add pedestrian bump-outs, and well-marked crosswalks. It looks like the are upgrading the crosswalks at Walnut and Central right now
January 23, 20196 yr https://content.govdelivery.com/accounts/OHDOT/bulletins/22a353c Quote New Northbound Ramps at the I-71 and Western Row Road Interchange to Open Warren County (Wednesday, Jan 23, 2019) - The two new northbound ramps for the Interstate 71 and Western Row Road interchange are expected to open around 9 a.m. on Thursday, Jan. 24. All work is contingent upon the weather. Edited January 23, 20196 yr by OldBearcat Formerly "Mr Sparkle"
March 27, 20196 yr Cranley: Parts of Columbia Pkwy. could be closed for 2 yearshttps://www.wcpo.com/news/local-news/hamilton-county/cincinnati/cranley-city-manager-to-talk-columbia-pkwy-landslides Parts of Columbia Parkway could be closed for the next two years in order to stop recurring landslides, Mayor John Cranley said at a Wednesday news conference. "Officials will also consider reconfiguring Riverside Drive to accommodate for the loss of capacity along Columbia Parkway." Translation, remove the bike lanes and parking.
April 1, 20196 yr On 3/27/2019 at 7:09 PM, jmecklenborg said: This is just the sort of political fight that Cranley loves. I predict that our car-focused DOTE will use this as an excuse to remove the on-street bike lanes from Riverside Drive with no provision for putting them back when the Central Parkway work is done. And when a council members proposes putting them back, Cranley will say that City Council wants to take money away from cops and firefighters to fund bike lanes. The same mayor that claims to be pro-bike and recently supported the creation on a new "Pedestrian Safety Task Force". And then turns around and tries to cancel bike lanes and road diets. What a clown.
April 2, 20196 yr Sounds like the thing they use on the Golden Gate Bridge. “To an Ohio resident - wherever he lives - some other part of his state seems unreal.”
April 2, 20196 yr 45 minutes ago, BigDipper 80 said: Sounds like the thing they use on the Golden Gate Bridge. The Road Zipper!!
April 2, 20196 yr 1 hour ago, taestell said: Reversible lanes coming back to Cincinnati? (Albeit temporarily.) Well Columbia Pkwy use to have the middle lane go both directions depending on time of day. I know that there were issues later down the road with people not reading the light up signage, but it made things nicer to have three lanes out of the city for evening rush hour.
April 2, 20196 yr Cincinnati used to have reversible lanes on several major streets across the city, and to my knowledge, all of them have been eliminated except for the one on the Clay Wade Bailey bridge. I can see why the city wanted to eliminate these "suicide lanes," but something like the Road Zipper pictured above would be perfect for streets like Central Parkway that have a small number of lanes and different peak directions during morning/evening rush hours. If they install one of these machines during construction, I hope they consider keeping it around permanently. That way Central Parkway would have 3 lanes in peak direction and 2 in off-peak, rather than having a fixed 3 lanes eastbound and 2 lanes westbound between Downtown and Columbia-Tusculum.
April 2, 20196 yr 11 minutes ago, taestell said: Cincinnati used to have reversible lanes on several major streets across the city, and to my knowledge, all of them have been eliminated except for the one on the Clay Wade Bailey bridge. I can see why the city wanted to eliminate these "suicide lanes," but something like the Road Zipper pictured above would be perfect for streets like Central Parkway that have a small number of lanes and different peak directions during morning/evening rush hours. If they install one of these machines during construction, I hope they consider keeping it around permanently. That way Central Parkway would have 3 lanes in peak direction and 2 in off-peak, rather than having a fixed 3 lanes eastbound and 2 lanes westbound between Downtown and Columbia-Tusculum. Only ones I can remember from childhood with the "suicide lane", were Columbia Pkwy, Beechmont Levy and up Beechmont Hill, and Queen City Ave. Edited April 2, 20196 yr by savadams13
April 2, 20196 yr I think Hopple Street had one too, but just the few blocks between the viaduct and I-75. The lower deck of the Western Hills Viaduct also had a reversible lane. Did Kellogg ever have one between Salem and I-275? It's one of those odd 2-lanes inbound, 1-lane outbound setups today.
April 2, 20196 yr Yes, Hopple St. did have one before they tore down the original Camp Washington Chili. I wish I had gotten pictures of all of them. They were all taken out in the 90s. I think they used old green trolley poles for a bunch of it. It definitely looked "local", the whole set-up. Like the same place that made the little yellow helmet lights made all of the reversible lane signs. I-95 in Boston has one of those zipper barriers south of downtown and for about 5-8 miles.
April 2, 20196 yr Queen City Avenue used to have them after the one-ways joined, up thru Gehrum Ave Formerly "Mr Sparkle"
April 2, 20196 yr 2 hours ago, OldBearcat said: Queen City Avenue used to have them after the one-ways joined, up thru Gehrum Ave A trip across the lower deck of the Western Hills Viaduct, then up the Queen City Hill, was a once one of the most interesting drives to be had through an American city. With the old railroad trestle torn down, the removal of the reversal lanes, and now so many demolitions for the Lick Run Project, it's pretty wimpy.
April 25, 20196 yr In late evening vote, council funds Columbia Parkway fixes In a rare, late-evening session, the Cincinnati City Council on Wednesday funded $17 million in repairs to Columbia Parkway. The fixes should last for the next three decades. The compromise reached by council and Mayor John Cranley spent all of the money available for a new District 5 police station, which means the city will start from scratch in terms of financing that project. Under ordinances passed Wednesday, the city will take the $9.4 million in cash it has available for District 5 and instead spend it on Columbia Parkway. It will also borrow $7.6 million backed by a 1-mill property tax increase for debt service passed by council in 2018. More below: https://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2019/04/24/in-late-evening-vote-council-funds-columbia.html "You don't just walk into a bar and mix it up by calling a girl fat" - buildingcincinnati speaking about new forumers
April 25, 20196 yr They should just eliminate the third eastbound lane and have two lanes in and two lanes out with a median in the middle. Driving in the inner lanes of Columbia Parkway is a harrowing experience and it is surprising there aren't more head-on collisions. Plus, I drove it out to Lunken yesterday during rush hour and there was a bit of delay but it really was not bad at all. The only choke points were at the stop lights, which has always happened anyway. People fly through Columbia-Tusculum like it's a highway when in reality it is the neighborhood business district. We should narrow the roadway to make people actually go 25 through there.
April 25, 20196 yr 35 minutes ago, DEPACincy said: They should just eliminate the third eastbound lane and have two lanes in and two lanes out with a median in the middle. Driving in the inner lanes of Columbia Parkway is a harrowing experience and it is surprising there aren't more head-on collisions. My drive to/from work involves Columbia Parkway (or preferrably Riverside) and I'd totally be on board with dropping the westbound lane next to the retaining wall between Kemper and Taft/Torrence. This also happens to be the location of most of the landslides. However, I would not support the removal of the 3rd lane (next to the wall) westbound before Taft/Torrence since it does a good job of collecting the cars that will be turning off of Columbia Parkway to head up to Uptown/Walnut Hills on Taft. This seems to allow for better flowing traffic through the Taft/Torrence intersection. This lane could be made a right turn only lane anyway since that seems to be how it is mainly used, which would allow the removal of the 3rd lane after the intersection. Also, I too am amazed there aren't more terrible crashes on Columbia Parkway, especially since most people are essentially driving at highway speeds (regularly get passed by people who have to be going at least 65 MPH) on a road that is generously signed as 45 MPH.
April 25, 20196 yr My guess why they haven't added a median is because having the blunt end of a jersey barrier facing oncoming traffic is super dangerous, and you'd have that condition at Delta, Torrence/Taft, Kemper, and then somewhere on the 5th Street Vidaduct. They'd probably want to do something like this where it comes into Fairfax https://goo.gl/maps/QbtQ7ka2HiVdhs39A instead of the "hit me" target at Dead Man's Curve https://goo.gl/maps/r4bfi2xMNmzz7Pua6. Also, when there are landslides, they wouldn't be able to shift the lanes around with cones like they did over the past few weeks. I'm surprised they haven't finished cleaning up the mess yet (they chopped down and chipped up all the trees and just left the chips in a pile against the retaining wall), but that's probably a political move to keep the lanes closed and have people complaining so they can do more news stories. As to why there aren't more crashes, it's probably because the road is scary enough to force drivers to pay more attention. I think I heard that Columbia Parkway is no more crash prone than any typical city street, so the tight lanes and close passes are probably doing some good. It's like "put a big metal spike on every car steering wheel and people would drive much safer." http://www.weirduniverse.net/blog/comments/tullock_spike Edited April 25, 20196 yr by jjakucyk
April 25, 20196 yr 18 minutes ago, jjakucyk said: My guess why they haven't added a median is because having the blunt end of a jersey barrier facing oncoming traffic is super dangerous, and you'd have that condition at Delta, Torrence/Taft, Kemper, and then somewhere on the 5th Street Vidaduct. They'd probably want to do something like this where it comes into Fairfax https://goo.gl/maps/QbtQ7ka2HiVdhs39A instead of the "hit me" target at Dead Man's Curve https://goo.gl/maps/r4bfi2xMNmzz7Pua6. Also, when there are landslides, they wouldn't be able to shift the lanes around with cones like they did over the past few weeks. I'm surprised they haven't finished cleaning up the mess yet (they chopped down and chipped up all the trees and just left the chips in a pile against the retaining wall), but that's probably a political move to keep the lanes closed and have people complaining so they can do more news stories. As to why there aren't more crashes, it's probably because the road is scary enough to force drivers to pay more attention. I think I heard that Columbia Parkway is no more crash prone than any typical city street, so the tight lanes and close passes are probably doing some good. It's like "put a big metal spike on every car steering wheel and people would drive much safer." http://www.weirduniverse.net/blog/comments/tullock_spike Surely there are less crashes because it feels super dangerous, but when there is a crash they are automatically super deadly. And honestly I'd say a painted median would be just fine. Just put a few more feet between me and the car coming 65 mph in my direction.
April 25, 20196 yr 21 minutes ago, DEPACincy said: Surely there are less crashes because it feels super dangerous, but when there is a crash they are automatically super deadly. It's only the crossover/oncoming collisions that are going to be worse. I'd imagine rear-ending is the typical incident, or possibly bad lane changes and sideswipes, and those are probably less-bad than on an interstate highway.
April 25, 20196 yr 25 minutes ago, jjakucyk said: It's only the crossover/oncoming collisions that are going to be worse. I'd imagine rear-ending is the typical incident, or possibly bad lane changes and sideswipes, and those are probably less-bad than on an interstate highway. Right. I specifically meant the potential to have a head on collision.
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