Do you mean that Victory Parkway was a much more important street?  I can certainly understand that, but nowhere is Victory any narrower than it was when it was built.  The intersection with Madison was completely redone when MLK was brought through in the 1970s, it used to be a large T intersection.  Also, the only newer part of Madison Road is the one block between Victory and Woodburn, which I presume was constructed along with the rest of Victory Parkway.  It didn't exist in 1912, but the rest of Madison sure did.  Madison is actually an old turnpike (Madisonville Pike), so it predates most of the rest of the roads in the area.  Its current width from Woodburn east to the B&O tracks in Oakley was set in about 1918. 

 

The following map overlays the modern Victory Parkway and MLK with the 1912 street grid. 

 

 

Projects like MLK, Dana Avenue, Linn Street, and one-waying Taft and McMillan were mostly mid 1970s projects.  The Jefferson/Short Vine project was done in the mid 60s as well as the short stretch of MLK between Clifton and Vine.  Those two roads were done in part to try to contain UC's campus from expanding further north into Burnett Woods or further east into Corryville.  St. Clair Street and Melish Avenue weren't widened out to their present size until later in the 1970s, but they were still about 40' wide, so that allowed two lanes of traffic in each direction between Vine and Reading.  The stretch of MLK between Clifton and Dixmyth wasn't built until probably the mid 70s either. 

^ Correct, by bigger, I meant bigger deal, not larger.  The Urban Cincy article someone posted earlier explains an accurate timeline.  I-71 opened between 1966. "MLK" between clifton and jefferson had only just been built a few years prior, and connections across to Madison were brand new/not seamless at the opening of I-71.  This is why there were no plans to do an interchange at MLK, but instead, were plans to do the interchange at Vicotry Parkway.  When Jake said "MLK didn't exist", he correct in several ways.  First off, what we call MLK was a mix of several different streets following a similar, yet unconnected path-  it was NOT a seamless blvd, etc. 

    I've been on MLK 100 times in my life, but just this week was the first time I have ever driven it from end to end, Madison to Hopple. MLK of course was not an original through route like Montgomery or Reading Roads that originated in the pre-automobile era, but a throughway that was deliberately cut through a built-up area, taking advantage of certain streets such as Melish along the way. The reverse curves and awkward intersections attest to this. Some trivia is that there was an attempt to rename Hopple Street along with the rest of the throughway to improve wayfinding but the Hopple family protested.

 

If you include the Westwood Northern Boulevard and all of Madison Road along with Hopple and MLK, you indeed have a long, continuous throughway from one side of town to another. Strangely enough, this was NOT included in the 1948 motorways plan, because that plan showed a gap between I-71 and Madison.

 

 

 

   

Here's a concept for urban grade separation of some of the major intersections on MLK such as Clifton, Burnet, Vine, etc., making the other streets right-in, right-out only, and accomodating left turning movements by driving around the block:

 

 

It sort of resembles a cloverleaf interchange, except the the leaves of the clover are city blocks. It improves traffic flow on MLK as well as on the crossing north-south streets. Some of the connecting streets already terminate at MLK like this.

Do you mean that Victory Parkway was a much more important street?  I can certainly understand that, but nowhere is Victory any narrower than it was when it was built.  The intersection with Madison was completely redone when MLK was brought through in the 1970s, it used to be a large T intersection.  Also, the only newer part of Madison Road is the one block between Victory and Woodburn, which I presume was constructed along with the rest of Victory Parkway.  It didn't exist in 1912, but the rest of Madison sure did.  Madison is actually an old turnpike (Madisonville Pike), so it predates most of the rest of the roads in the area.  Its current width from Woodburn east to the B&O tracks in Oakley was set in about 1918. 

 

The following map overlays the modern Victory Parkway and MLK with the 1912 street grid. 

 

 

Projects like MLK, Dana Avenue, Linn Street, and one-waying Taft and McMillan were mostly mid 1970s projects.  The Jefferson/Short Vine project was done in the mid 60s as well as the short stretch of MLK between Clifton and Vine.  Those two roads were done in part to try to contain UC's campus from expanding further north into Burnett Woods or further east into Corryville.  St. Clair Street and Melish Avenue weren't widened out to their present size until later in the 1970s, but they were still about 40' wide, so that allowed two lanes of traffic in each direction between Vine and Reading.  The stretch of MLK between Clifton and Dixmyth wasn't built until probably the mid 70s either. 

 

Think you could provide us with a 1912/present overlay for the area that includes Melish as well?

According to the ODOT Statewide Bridge Database, the MLK Bridge (#3114422) dates to 1972.

Here's the 1912 overlay with the recent (well, 1990s anyway) CAGIS map showing MLK's entire length from I-75 to Woodburn Avenue.  Click on the preview for the large image.  Note that it's an enormour 9MB JPEG.  The maps mostly line up, but there's a few places it gets a little bit off.  Kinsey Avenue is completely screwed up, and several of the streets in Fairview are a bit off, but it's mostly good.

 

You can see how Hopple was connected to Dixmyth (1960s) then later to Clifton at Riddle (1970s).  MLK then went through Burnett Woods on a new alignment to a widened St. Clair at Woodside to the fiasco Vine/Jefferson/MLK intersection (1960s).  At that time, Jefferson still continued north of MLK at what is today the main entrance to the EPA.  The diagonal block between MLK and Glendora was removed at that time, and between Glendora and Vine it was a streetcar-only right-of-way before, so it was already closed.  East of there, St. Clair was realigned to intersect Melish at Eden (1970s).  Melish was then widened to the north and crooked intersections were smoothed out (1970s).  East of I-71 it then cut diagonally across the grid of Walnut Hills to the reconfigured intersection with Victory Parkway (1970s). 

 

Note also how much Victory Parkway (which in 1912 was a fairly narrow road built only between Gilbert and Rockdale) was reconfigured around I-71 along with Gilbert. 

 

Kind of unrelated, but you can also see how Taft was pieced together from a bunch of smaller streets, alleys, and new cut-throughs.  That was done sometime between 1932 and 1954, and my guess would be the early 50s after the Taft Expressway plans flopped.  Taft and McMillan weren't made one-way until about the time I-71 opened however. 

 

There's other random interesting stuff too, like how Lincoln was routed through to University, and that McMillan didn't go down the hill west of Fairview and Ravine.  That particular project was done in 1923 by the Cincinnati Street Railway as a replacement route for the Fairview Incline which had been closed in 1921 for safety issues.  I'm not sure if McMillan was extended below McMicken to Central Parkway as part of the Parkway project, or a little later as part of the Western Hills Viaduct project. 

 

Anyway, here you go. 

 

>as part of the Parkway project, or a little later as part of the Western Hills Viaduct project. 

 

I'm fairly sure that it was built as part of the parkway project, along with the nutty Dixmyth ramp that is still there but whose days are sort-of numbered.  In both cases, the roads were configured with a bias toward downtown travel, NOT cross-town.  Accounts of the opening of the Western Hills Viaduct are interesting, since it apparently totally inundated Central Parkway with traffic of the likes unseen previously.  It's really a great example of highway infrastructure creating traffic in a way that was repeated on a much larger scale with the interstate highways, then their various widenings.  The intersection with Central Parkway/McMillan was the sticking point, but grade separation like a diamond interchange would have caused even more traffic.  Incidentally, the traffic pattern at Brighton confounded the era's traffic engineers, and became the site of the city's first 3-phase traffic control sequence.

 

It's very interesting to see Victory Parkway labeled as Bloody Run Parkway.  I had always thought that was a working title, not an official title.  If my memory is correct, that project started in 1912 so it's possible that this map published the working title. 

 

And it isn't even Bloody Run to begin with, it's Ross Run.  Bloody Run is the next Mill Creek tributary to the north.  Someone really goofed there.  I thought it was just a working title too (at least the name of the park right-of-way if not the road itself), but apparently it wasn't changed to Victory Parkway until 1921.  It appears construction started in 1911, but it was mainly just grading and a gravel roadbed until 1915.  This was just up near Gilbert though.  I want to say the road south of MLK wasn't done until the 1920s based on the curb stones used.  Maybe they changed the name upon completion of the project, though 1921 still sounds a little early to me. 

 

Cincinnati Parks and Parkways section on Victory Parkway

The whole thing wasn't dedicated until 1929 or 1930, even though its various sections had been in use for nearly 20 years by that point. 

 

After seeing enough road projects, it's easier to pick out things that have changed over the years. For example, houses that don't have a proper relationship with the street may have been there first. If the front door faces a different street or some other direction other than the side it where it should be, that's a hint that something has changed. If every building has a retaining wall of the same material, that's a hint that the wall was built as part of the road project, as the road was widened or cut, not by individual property owners.

 

McMillan street, along with it's extensions, is a good example of this. As old as it may be (1920's,) there are houses along the road that are even older. Before McMillan street near Central Parkway was built, McMicken was the dominant street in that area, and one can see how the new road was built to cut through the streetwall on the older street.

 

Another good example is Liberty Street, where the entire streetwall was demolished on the south side, leaving views into the sides of buildings.

 

In Paris, it seems that when the grand boulevards were cut through the medieval fabric that was there before, the designers not only built the street but also rebuilt the buildings on either side, creating a NEW streetwall. I can't think of a project in America that did the same. On 12th street in Covington they at least addressed it, but I haven't been there recently to see how it turned out.

 

In my humble opinion the lack of attention to the remaining properties on either side of a new street or a widened one has been a major oversight of road projects in America. Not only did the original property owners get displaced, but the adjoining property owners were left with spaces that were unusable, belonging to no one and abused by everyone.

^I should add that part of the problem may be the way that road projects are funded. If the State or Feds grants funding for a new road, but not for new buildings, then the designer has no choice but to demo the buildings that are in the way without any provision for replacing them.

Those other countries that do this better than in the US also don't have such a blatant anti-density agenda.  All these streets cut through neighborhoods here were intended in some ways to "clear out the cruft," and building a new intact urban fabric would be counter to the parkllike suburban ideal. 

^Not necessarily. Granted, there are certain projects where widening of a road was used as an excuse for a demolition, but highways designers are not necessarily anti-density.

 

After a century or more of pre-automobile development, the automobile came on the scene, along with the desire for highways. In 1950, they didn't demo a highway for urban development because there were no highways to demolish. We are starting to see a few highway demo projects around the country, and we have examples in Cincinnati of railroad demolition for development (Glenway Crossings).

Well, that map took up a large portion of my time today.

 

I've also heard Victory Parkway referred to as "Bloody Pike". Was it ever tolled? Sounds unlikely.

One or two Xavier archives refer to it as Bloody Run Boulevard too.  I see no reason that it would've ever been tolled. 

 

Here's a great photo of Victory at Rockdale.  Love the street lights!

 

 

I was looking through a Xavier history book a while back while doing some research on campus, and I found a few references for both Bloody Run Blvd. and Bloody Run Parkway.

I checked an old map in my collection from abut 1900 and found no reference to any kind of road in the area of Victory Parkway named "Bloody Run."

Well, it appears from the composite map that Bloody Run wasn't even fully built. And that overlay is from 1912. So, it would make sense that no record from 1900 mentions it.

I think the first mention of a parkway there, or anywhere really, came about in the 1907 Kessler Plan.  The sad part is that most of the parkways that actually were built (many more were planned that were unrealized) became merely major arterial roads or even highways.  Victory Parkway, Columbia Parkway, Torrence Parkway, and Central Parkway were all in the Kessler Plan as park-ways, but not necessarily as the highways they became.  Ezzard Charles was sort of in the plan too, though a few blocks south of where it finally ended up being.  Victory Parkway is probably the closest thing to the original vision, at least north of MLK, of a meandering road through a wooded valley.  Duck Creek Road, also a planned parkway in Kessler's plan, had much of the character of a small country lane before most of it was obliterated by I-71. 

At what point was Columbia Pkwy turned into more of an intraurban expressway? I heard that until the late 70s or early 80s, those with residences behind the retaining walls and stairs still had access to on-street parking on Columbia.

 

And not to get sidetracked completely, has there been any talk about making boulevard-style improvements to MLK near the interchange, such as a landscaped median? I'd hate to see it just turn into a sea of traffic. That would be hell for bicyclists or anyone planning to cross the street at Gilbert.

Columbia Parkway hasn't changed appreciably (at least the original part between downtown and Beechmont) in lane configuration since it was opened in 1938.  It was always pretty much a sea of cars as far as I can tell.  Even so, in the mid 1950s it looked basically like it does now, though it doesn't look like they'd started closing off the various short access ramps by then.

 

There were a lot of houses that faced Columbia between Tusculum Avenue and Dead Man's Curve though, that were there into at least the 1970s, as well as a few other buildings scattered along the road's length.  I could see there being street parking around Columbia-Tusculum, but not anywhere else really.  I'm pretty sure there was a bus line along there though, hence all the steps.  Whatever provisions there were for bus stops on the eastbound side of the street would've been obliterated when the newer jersey barrier was installed.  It must've been a thoroughly unpleasant experience either way.  This picture shows an early Columbia Parkway, probably from shortly after opening in the late 30s or early 40s and there definitely appears to be a bus stop on the left, with fire hydrants even. 

It still had the center reversable direction lane until about 1990, then the current sort-of art deco elements were added around 2003. 

 

There were also reversable lanes on Queen City Avenue and the lower deck of the Western Hills Viaduct.  The only one remaining is on the Clay Wade Bailey Bridge.

Beechmont hand them going up the hill to Mt. Washington as well.  I think also Hopple Street between the viaduct and I-75, but I don't know anything about that one. 

Well, that map took up a large portion of my time today.

 

I've also heard Victory Parkway referred to as "Bloody Pike". Was it ever tolled? Sounds unlikely.

Speaking of taking up a lot of time, I happened to be researching some park history in OTR, and ran across the reports to the Park Board from 1907-1915. 

 

Bloody Run is mentioned repeatedly, as a means to connect Eden Park and the Blachly Farm property (now Avon Fields):

 

http://books.google.com/ebooks/reader?id=DmsAAAAAYAAJ&printsec=frontcover&output=reader&pg=GBS.PA188

 

Also a couple of great (if not well scanned) photos:

 

http://books.google.com/ebooks/reader?id=DmsAAAAAYAAJ&printsec=frontcover&output=reader&pg=GBS.PA141

 

http://books.google.com/ebooks/reader?id=DmsAAAAAYAAJ&printsec=frontcover&output=reader&pg=GBS.PA181

 

http://books.google.com/ebooks/reader?id=DmsAAAAAYAAJ&printsec=frontcover&output=reader&pg=GBS.PA182

 

http://books.google.com/ebooks/reader?id=DmsAAAAAYAAJ&printsec=frontcover&output=reader&pg=GBS.PA185

 

On Columbia Parkway, there was quite a bit of work done in the 90's - road-widening in parts and shoring up the hill below the road.

When did the jersey barrier on Dead Man's Curve go up, early '90s?

In recent months I saw someone biking that curve, a second person walking, and a third with a step ladder cutting branches off a bush with pruning shears. Yes, the ladder was straddling the white line.

ODOT approves $3M for design of MLK interchange

Business Courier

Date: Friday, June 8, 2012, 11:24am EDT

 

The Ohio Department of Transportation has approved $3 million in funding to continue design of the Martin Luther King interchange on Interstate 71.

 

http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2012/06/08/odot-approves-3m-for-design-of-mlk.html

Great news.  This project will likely include reservation of a right-of-way for light rail (I saw a preliminary drawing a year ago that did) which will allow an inexpensive high speed connection between Xavier and Downtown to be built.  This means conversion of the Wasson freight line to light rail could happen as soon as this project is a go.  In the future this could be a high speed bypass of the UC area for Wasson and the line to Blue Ash and Mason, if a route through the hospitals and UC is built. 

^ Really promising news, Jake--oh, if this could only happen soon...

This could also motivate the hospitals to get off their collective asses and get MLK looking much better.  Next time you're in Columbus drive by Nationwide Children's Hospital...they did extensive streetscaping (buried utilities along the main streets) in conjunction with the construction of two new large 10~ story buldings and a parking garage.  The overall effect is more impressive and more pleasant than any approach to any of the Cincinnati hospitals. 

 

What's upsetting is that I was living nearby when MLK was widened in 1998.  This included reconfiguration of the MLK/Jefferson/Vine intersection into the disaster that it is today, and the installation of the interstate highway-looking lights in the median of MLK between Vine and Eden Ave.  Meanwhile, there has been no utility burial and there is no unifying theme.  I think the entire south side of MLK (McDonald's, Duel Manor, etc.) needs to be demo'd, and taking all those properties by power of eminent domain in order to build a transit line could be the way to do it. 

This could also motivate the hospitals to get off their collective asses and get MLK looking much better.  Next time you're in Columbus drive by Nationwide Children's Hospital...they did extensive streetscaping (buried utilities along the main streets) in conjunction with the construction of two new large 10~ story buldings and a parking garage.  The overall effect is more impressive and more pleasant than any approach to any of the Cincinnati hospitals. 

 

What's upsetting is that I was living nearby when MLK was widened in 1998.  This included reconfiguration of the MLK/Jefferson/Vine intersection into the disaster that it is today, and the installation of the interstate highway-looking lights in the median of MLK between Vine and Eden Ave.  Meanwhile, there has been no utility burial and there is no unifying theme.  I think the entire south side of MLK (McDonald's, Duel Manor, etc.) needs to be demo'd, and taking all those properties by power of eminent domain in order to build a transit line could be the way to do it. 

 

That has to be the highest grossing McD's in Cincinnati, if not an even larger area, they'll never risk taking it.  See the Hopple Street drawings for an example; that White Castle makes a ton of money and they managed to get onramps designed encircling it rather than tearing it down.  It wouldn't surprise me if they build a transit stop directly in front of it, Cincinnati seems to love their fast food sales tax revenue.

I don't disagree, that McDonald's seems to have a line at the drive-thru 20 hours a day.  I don't think the city gets much in revenue from restaurants, even those in high profile locations, since restaurant workers aren't paid well and most of the city's tax revenue comes from the earnings tax.  Tipped employees often don't report the tips, unless they have a POS system that automatically withholds tax from credit card orders.

Well, that map took up a large portion of my time today.

 

I've also heard Victory Parkway referred to as "Bloody Pike". Was it ever tolled? Sounds unlikely.

Speaking of taking up a lot of time, I happened to be researching some park history in OTR, and ran across the reports to the Park Board from 1907-1915. 

 

Bloody Run is mentioned repeatedly, as a means to connect Eden Park and the Blachly Farm property (now Avon Fields):

 

http://books.google.com/ebooks/reader?id=DmsAAAAAYAAJ&printsec=frontcover&output=reader&pg=GBS.PA188

 

Also a couple of great (if not well scanned) photos:

 

http://books.google.com/ebooks/reader?id=DmsAAAAAYAAJ&printsec=frontcover&output=reader&pg=GBS.PA141

 

http://books.google.com/ebooks/reader?id=DmsAAAAAYAAJ&printsec=frontcover&output=reader&pg=GBS.PA181

 

http://books.google.com/ebooks/reader?id=DmsAAAAAYAAJ&printsec=frontcover&output=reader&pg=GBS.PA182

 

http://books.google.com/ebooks/reader?id=DmsAAAAAYAAJ&printsec=frontcover&output=reader&pg=GBS.PA185

 

Great resources, thanks for sharing

I am sure COAST will be outraged!

 

 

City needs $25M more for Uptown interchange

Written by Jason Williams

 

Now there’s a new wrinkle in raising the local money needed to get work on a new Uptown interchange started by summer: The city must raise another $25 million, in addition to the $20 million it already has pledged.

 

To do that, the state has proposed the city and the Ohio-Kentucky-Indiana Regional Council of Governments transportation planning agency jointly borrow the $25 million from a state loan program.

 

OKI would repay the loan principal over 20 to 25 years, and the city would repay the interest, estimated at around 3 percent. OKI’s 117-member board is expected to vote on the state loan proposal next month. The money would come from the State Infrastructure Bank, which provides money for projects that have economic-development value.

 

 

http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20130920/BIZ/309200140/City-seeks-25M-more-Uptown-interchange

Do they have a contractor for this project already? If not how can they be so far off? Where are these costs coming from. Same thing with the Western hills viaduct. It's up to 200 million now, up from 100 million in 2009.

What a crock.  Sorry.  This will not even register or be mentioned by C____.

What a crock.  Sorry.  This will not even register or be mentioned by C____.

 

Everyone drives. We "need" roads. Etc etc etc blah blah blah. COAST won't even stir.

http://www.wlwt.com/news/local-news/cincinnati/oki-to-get-25m-loan-for-mlk-interchange-project/-/13549970/22977674/-/jyfhl7z/-/index.html?utm_source=HootSuite&utm_medium=Facebook&utm_campaign=wlwt5

Anybody got an idea of what the 7,000 neighborhood jobs this project is estimated to create are?

Anybody got an idea of what the 7,000 neighborhood jobs this project is estimated to create are?

 

I'm sure there will be a new Taco Bell and Burger King near the new interchange. That's gotta be, what, at least 2 dozen jobs right there?

Anybody got an idea of what the 7,000 neighborhood jobs this project is estimated to create are?

 

I'm sure there will be a new Taco Bell and Burger King near the new interchange. That's gotta be, what, at least 2 dozen jobs right there?

 

I suspect that UC, the Hospitals, etc. will account for the bulk of the additional 1000’s of jobs. How dependent upon the MLK interchange those jobs are is questionable (at best).

 

While there are definitely people who would or would not buy a property in northern OTR due to the streetcar, I don’t think any nurses or doctors are going to refuse a job offer because the highway interchange nearest the hospital isn’t quite ideal.

^ Exactly.  I haven't had a chance to look through the feasibility report on this project, but in many of these situations most of the "benefits" are calculated as time savings.  So you take the average projected traffic, apply the time saved to the area's average income, and that adds up to quite a lot of money supposedly saved.  The problem is, 2 or 3 minutes per day per person is really what it boils down to, which is an intangible benefit at best, and really doesn't save many people the amount of money the calculations project.  Beyond that, no level of government actually collects any taxes on that saved time either.  This interchange isn't going to cause much if any increase in property values near it, probably just the opposite.  So real cash money is spent to build, operate, and maintain this thing, but little money actually comes back to pay for it.  Privatized benefit, socialized cost. 

I think the 7000 jobs is highly inflated, yet I still believe the project is worth it. Having on exit ramp to Uptown is incredibly important in my opinion.

^ It will benefit people from NKY more than anything since it will have a northbound ramp.

As part of this, are they going to remove the ramps at Taft & McMillan? That would be a great benefit for that corridor - slow down traffic and enable it to be more pedestrian oriented. Plus the 2-way conversion.

I'm pretty sure it was designed to keep the Taft/McMillan ramps.  That does complicate moving the 2-way conversion westward, but I don't think it's insurmountable, at least for Taft.  McMillan is a bit more complicated. 

ODOT has posted a design build scope for the interchange and plans to short list three teams of contractors soon with the winning bidder selected in the spring.  The plan is to extend the two way operation of McMillan to the existing I-71 NB ramp which will remain in operation as will the SB Taft Ramp.

 

 

^ It will benefit people from NKY more than anything since it will have a northbound ramp.

 

To this point, it will also minimize people from 471 cutting from the far right lane to the far left lane between the Liberty and Reading exits, which happens all the time since the Reading exit is on left side of 71 and the next exit isn't until Dana.