Not at all.  Some of the conduct was borderline criminal, especially the stalking.

 

Of course I don't experience it on a daily basis.  I'm a dude, dude.  I was simply throwing it out there that these videos can be manipulated a bit to drive home the point.  In fact, it is the smart thing to do if you really want to get a message out.  That girl wasn't just some randomly selected "Average Jane"..... Take a real good look at her.  She was tactfully chosen and dressed to be used as 'bait' for the typically worst offenders, but yet not so much that the targeted audience is going to take all that much notice of it if at all.  I say good for them.  Their cause is a good one to promote.

 

I REALLY don't think it went much beyond the selection of the girl, but just to further speculate in the "off topic" thread ;) notice that she never turns around once.  You also never really see her behavior on the approach.  Was she making lengthy eye contact?  Did she make repeated passes of the same area?  I could think of a thousands ways to get good film on this without the audience ever knowing if I had the desire and means. 

She was tactfully chosen and dressed to be used as 'bait' for the typically worst offenders, but yet not so much that the targeted audience is going to take all that much notice of it if at all.

 

I don't understand this.  She was wearing a crewneck and jeans...

Was she making lengthy eye contact?  Did she make repeated passes of the same area?  I could think of a thousands ways to get good film on this without the audience ever knowing if I had the desire and means. 

 

You fundamentally don't understand this issue. I would highly recommend you get caught up on how widespread of a problem this is and how it mentally affects women across the country before you keep trying to defend these types of actions.

 

Does it even matter if she was "entrapping" them (she wasn't)? Wearing a modest, yet tight outfit does not make this type of behavior acceptable. This problem is very serious, and you're essentially playing it down by even questioning the authenticity of this.

 

People often say, "they are just complimenting you" or "is it harassment to tell someone to have a great day?" These "compliments" are creepy and often very menacing and literally scare women for their safety.

 

And telling someone to have a great day isn't harassment if you just opened the door for them, started a conversation based on something they are holding while sitting next to them on the subway, asked them when the next bus was supposed to come, or had some kind of interaction with them (any at all!) aside from making eye contact. Just passing someone on the street and making eye contact does not give men the right to say these types of things that are meant to draw some kind of a reaction and force a conversation. It happens ALL THE TIME and is not acceptable. Pleasant conversation is fine. Passing someone on the street and trying to get them to smile is not ok. This should be obvious, but somehow is not for so many people.

^you and me really aren't communicating on the same wave length here. That's all Ivan asse from your response..... Or you didn't really ready post.  I'll check out of that exchange.

 

^^i was talking more about the girl than her clothes, although I'm sure those were carefully chosen too

But what about the girl, her clothes, or her actions made her "bait?"

She's stacked. A perfect 10 to many of those guys.  Her clothes emphasized her physical features

 

I don't know about her actions (see above)

She's stacked. A perfect 10 to many of those guys.  Her clothes emphasized her physical features

 

I don't know about her actions (see above)

 

Indeed, but that doesn't make a difference, does it?  Can we not have a bright-line rule that you should not be "hollering" at girls you don't know in public, regardless of their looks or clothes?  That seems like a softball.

 

Also, we can play the "what if" game all night.  What if it was staged?  What if she had a sign on her butt that read "ask me about my butt."  There is nothing in the video to indicate she did anything but walk down the street.  Doesn't mean that there wasn't more to it but that seems like the most likely scenario.

You completely missed my point. I was not "making excuses" "Diminishing" or however else anyone wants to misinterpret what I wrote. I simply stated that it was a good strategy to use.  Period.  I didn't realize the conversation was closed to anything but Comments focused solely on utter outrage.

Whuh?  I'm not sure where the quotations around "making excuses" and "diminishing" came from - I didn't use either.  So everything in your comments above was just fluff?  Besides of course, that her being attractive "was a good strategy to use."

 

Sorry dude but I have to push back just a lil' bit.

 

*You won't find any outrage here, I'm just trying to figure out what you're saying.

Wow.

 

No, she did not "ask for it"  by wearing an outfit like that. She didn't look at anyone or say anything to them. She was wearing shitty American Eagle pants, they have a logo like any other jeans but it is not a sign saying "look at my ass and then ask me about it."

 

If you would and regularly DO ask multiple men a day how the are doing and say you look nice and why don't you talk to me, and hey, good morning pretty, then yes, you probably think this is normal and awesome.

 

If you would not say those things to another man, then don't say them to a woman. Period. Doesn't matter how she is walking, what she is wearing, what color her hair is or how big her boobs are or how tight her shirt is.

 

Someone online drew the parallel to when they visited a foreign country and how "polite and nice" the beggars were on their initial approach. Good morning sir, how are you, sir, and then they bug the crap out of you up and down the road and won't leave you alone, and all you do the whole time you're walking down the street is fend off one after another, until you finally realize that ACKNOWLEDGING THEM IN ANY WAY ENCOURAGES THEM TO RESPOND, and then they bug you EVEN MORE. This is EXACTLY what happens when people talk to you on the street. If you say "good morning" back, then it's "what's your name?" "Where you going? Can i come?" "You sure look fine" etc etc etc. It just opens up a can of worms so you learn to say nothing or else the beggars will never leave you alone.

 

Can you imagine the beggars in another country, after being ignored, shouting after you that you asked for it because you walked down the street all rich in this poor neighborhood, and why are you being so rude, they just said hello, how are you? Yeah, that.

"Is there something written across her butt?  There was some comment about that, I thought I heard."

 

She's wearing American Eagle jeans - they don't typically do a billboard-sized logo on their jeans. Even if they did... so what? You said she's stacked... so she can't wear properly fitted clothes? I know there are certain cultures who take that view to an extreme. She's not wearing anything a guy wouldn't wear on a regular basis so it's not like she's out wearing a corset, hot pants and stilettos - even if she did...

 

"Of course I don't experience it on a daily basis.  I'm a dude, dude."

 

Maybe that's an idea? Have "dudes" get subjected to various levels of what women deal with, by other dudes. It would be everything from "um okay, that's a sweet thing to say", "gee, thanks but no thanks?" to "you just need to get the f#ck away from me" or "meet my good friend, Taye Zer". I have a feeling that might change a few dudes' perspectives  :wink: (just to clarify, the wink is a non-threatening and non-harassing wink).

 

Was she making lengthy eye contact?  Did she make repeated passes of the same area?  I could think of a thousands ways to get good film on this without the audience ever knowing if I had the desire and means. 

 

You fundamentally don't understand this issue. I would highly recommend you get caught up on how widespread of a problem this is and how it mentally affects women across the country before you keep trying to defend these types of actions.

 

Does it even matter if she was "entrapping" them (she wasn't)? Wearing a modest, yet tight outfit does not make this type of behavior acceptable. This problem is very serious, and you're essentially playing it down by even questioning the authenticity of this.

 

People often say, "they are just complimenting you" or "is it harassment to tell someone to have a great day?" These "compliments" are creepy and often very menacing and literally scare women for their safety.

 

...Just passing someone on the street and making eye contact does not give men the right to say these types of things that are meant to draw some kind of a reaction and force a conversation. It happens ALL THE TIME and is not acceptable. Pleasant conversation is fine. Passing someone on the street and trying to get them to smile is not ok. This should be obvious, but somehow is not for so many people.

 

OMG YES YES YES

Never mind this particular video, and the rather silly, pointless thought that for this particular video, maybe somehow, even though I can't see it and you can't see it, it was a "set up" somehow. I'm not sure how it's a setup to wear clothes like that, or to walk down the street or whatever, but let's just say this ONE video is crap.

 

Ask any woman who walks through an urban setting on a regular basis if their experience is crap. If this video looks "totally made up" to them or if this realistically depicts their experience. It certainly does mine, 100%, and it doesn't matter if I am head to toe in my -20 rated, down-filled Lands' End winter coat that goes to my ankles, with winter boots and a hat and scarf on, wearing what the girl is wearing in the video, wearing running clothes, wearing a shapless black trench coat and baggy jeans, IT DOESN'T MATTER. It happens all the time, to lots and lots of women, regardless of what they are wearing and how they are "acting" or whatever. We are not making it up.

 

What's further tragic is if I did this and posted a video, people would also accuse me of somehow manipulating the situation to "make this happen." And that, to me, is the worst part of all of it. Women should be able to exist and walk down the street without constant verbal harrassment. Period, the end.

 

 

 

I think the outrage at this film is causing you all to take my comments completely out of context.  I never said she asked for it.  I never said it was awesome.  Don't be pricks about it.  I said the behavior was borderline criminal.  I said the cause was a good one and, in fact, encouraged the exploitation of these guys.  You all just gloss over that to go on the attack and try to frame me as one of them, when I said I never do that and never have.  Get over yourselves.  I'm out.

What's further tragic is if I did this and posted a video, people would also accuse me of somehow manipulating the situation to "make this happen." And that, to me, is the worst part of all of it. Women should be able to exist and walk down the street without constant verbal harrassment. Period, the end.

 

Questioning motive and context should be standard operating procedure for anything you see on the internet, regardless of subject matter. That in and of itself does not mean one agrees or disagrees with its point.

I'll allow that, but my point in this particular case is it doesn't matter if 100% of every single thing and every person in the video is an actor and it is staged. It does not matter one iota. As it is 100% accurate and realistic.

 

And why I meant it was particularly tragic if I did it is some of the people on this site know me in person, have met me, and have known me for a long time. "on the internet" generally ok. I was talking about if I did the video myself and posted it, for example, here, on UO. But I guess that's also "on the internet" so it doesn't count?

 

 

"I said the cause was a good one and, in fact, encouraged the exploitation of these guys.  You all just gloss over that to go on the attack and try to frame me as one of them""

 

No one suggested you are "one of them" - but as you said yourself, there is a disconnect because you don't experience that kind of harassment on a regular basis. Whether that means you don't buy the video as fact or sincerely can't relate - it's a disconnect. As Mendo rightfully said, there's a reasonable amount of skepticism and "okay, what REALLY happened?" for anything out on the interwebs. Maybe it's not a disconnect but a sad statement about society - a woman with curves wears a fitted but perfectly modest outfit of jeans and a t-shirt and *that* makes her a "good strategy" for bait?

I've known guys that are like that (catcalling etc.) and was always embarrassed when I was with them and they did it. But they got more positive responses than I ever thought they would so unfortunately that feedback loop is there -- especially in poorer areas.

E Rocc[/member], I agree.  To be clear, the "issues" I was referring to in my original statement weren't an attribution of a behavior to one race or another.  Instead, my experience in the Public Square thread has been that if you bring up the poor behavior on the square, accusations of racism start flying without merit and shut the whole conversation down. This happens regardless the real, objectively poor quality of behavior (the fight I saw last week, the fight in the entrance of Tower City the week before, the catcalling, the profanity screaming teenagers, etc).  We seem to never be able to have this discussion because once we do, we get dangerously close to calling the criticism of antisocial behavior, racist.

 

I'm usually on your side of those discussions, so I agree.  Those types of problems also had at least as much to do with some malls shutting down than macroeconomic factors.

 

The idea of reframing cultural criticism as "racism" is as classic a case of the boy crying wolf as exists in our society.  The worst thing about real racism is it stigmatizes people for matters completely outside their control.

For example, Fox8 News just posted the video and there is already a sarcastic comment about how "terrible" the men are for saying "good morning" to a woman.

 

I have never, ever heard a man say "good morning" to another man like that. Never. They're not saying it to be polite or nice. They are trying to get your attention because you are a woman, and they want you to acknowledge them. It's not polite if you only do it to women you are trying to get the attention of. I don't know why this is not understood.

 

It gets in the way of preconceived ideas, so it's downplayed by those with agendi to promote.

 

Some "density" advocates seem to believe that people with highly different values can and even should be mixed freely, and if someone is uncomfortable with this, it's their fault.  It's an offshoot of Sim City Syndrome.

I've known guys that are like that (catcalling etc.) and was always embarrassed when I was with them and they did it. But they got more positive responses than I ever thought they would so unfortunately that feedback loop is there -- especially in poorer areas.

 

Women are afraid to react negatively. I have pretended to be pleased with comments I've received. Otherwise, you get screamed at and can be followed or get into additional trouble.

For example, Fox8 News just posted the video and there is already a sarcastic comment about how "terrible" the men are for saying "good morning" to a woman.

 

I have never, ever heard a man say "good morning" to another man like that. Never. They're not saying it to be polite or nice. They are trying to get your attention because you are a woman, and they want you to acknowledge them. It's not polite if you only do it to women you are trying to get the attention of. I don't know why this is not understood.

 

In spite of all the PC there is in today's world, there is still a physical attraction men have to women.  There is no denying it that a pretty woman, or maybe women in general are going to be looked at, not to mention those that are dressed seductively.  Men will always look at women differently, and speak to women differently.  Men will always HOPE that a woman notices him, even if he has no bad intentions.

 

As far as politeness, that's how I was taught, especially to woman; tip your hat, hold the door, help with packages, help little old ladies across the street.  Maybe the casual good morning comment that my mother taught me was to make myself appear clearly non-threatening.

 

Recently, when a woman thanked me for something and said, you didn't need to do that, I told her that I had too, or my 90 year old mother would yell at me.  And she would, too, she does that a lot!

 

 

Ok just to play devils advocate, If you are a single man in an urban environment and you see an attractive Woman you want to talk to, whats the best way to do it?

 

Don't approach her at all if she's alone. If she is then that's too bad, she's off limits. If she's with her friends then invite them all over to join your group or to have some drinks or something along those lines depending on what type of environment you're in. None of my female friends would ever separate from their group to go hang out with a random guy one-on-one so don't even bother, you're not going to come off as anything other than questionable or creepy even if you are a great guy.

Ok just to play devils advocate, If you are a single man in an urban environment and you see an attractive Woman you want to talk to, whats the best way to do it?

 

 

If the "urban environment" is the street and the woman is walking down it and not looking at people, or shopping at a newsstand or something, just leave her the heck alone! She doesn't want to talk to you. She's not hanging out at a bar looking around for company. I don't care if she's the most beautiful person you have ever seen in your whole life. Leave her alone.

 

What's acceptable walking down the street? A polite nod. Which is the modern way of tipping your hat. Really, that's about it. don't stare, don't tell her to smile, don't tell her how pretty she looks.

 

If a woman is at a bar alone and is not reading, engrossed in her phone, clearly waiting for someone or otherwise obviously completely closed to any interaction, but is looking around, seems open to approach, then you have the server/bartender send her a second of whatever she is drinking, whether it's beer or pop or whatever. How she reacts to it is your answer as to whether or not you can do anything else. And if you can't, don't stare, get pissed, or whatever else.

New Yorkers strip down for No Pants Subway Ride

 

wonder if anyone talked to anyone?

 

http://pix11.com/2014/01/12/no-pants-subway-ride/

I've known guys that are like that (catcalling etc.) and was always embarrassed when I was with them and they did it. But they got more positive responses than I ever thought they would so unfortunately that feedback loop is there -- especially in poorer areas.

 

Women are afraid to react negatively. I have pretended to be pleased with comments I've received. Otherwise, you get screamed at and can be followed or get into additional trouble.

 

Not all women are the same.  Hardly.  The ones GCrites80s was referring to are not responding because they are afraid to react negatively.  They are genuinely interested.  I have friends, in our younger years, who did not hesitate to "holla" at a girl if they thought she was attractive or if her outward appearance fit the stereotype of someone who might be interested in them.  Half those girls you see walking around the neighborhood pointlessly are looking for some guy to drive by and hit on them.

 

Certainly, there are a ton of women who want nothing to do with it, no matter the circumstances.  Then there are others who will either feel complemented or offended dependent totally on the characteristics of the man making the comment.

 

I wanted to post it, but can't find it.  Does anyone remember that commercial from a few decades ago with the construction worker passing by an old lady on the street and saying "Hello, Beautiful" and then you seeing the old lady re-telling the story to her friends "... and then he called me Beautiful!"  The point about the commercial, iirc, was that sometimes the smallest things can make someone's day.  I always thought it was a little odd.  But it certainly was a situation where context probably made the difference in the public's eye.  If the rather handsome construction worker had been your average Clevelander waiting for a bus on Public Square, it probably would have been taken as offensive based solely on physical characteristics.

 

As far as looking, there is a certain level of 'nature' to it.  You can show the below picture to 100 people, women included, and I would bet that not one will notice the dog driving the car before reading the text.

 

Ok just to play devils advocate, If you are a single man in an urban environment and you see an attractive Woman you want to talk to, whats the best way to do it?

 

 

If the "urban environment" is the street and the woman is walking down it and not looking at people, or shopping at a newsstand or something, just leave her the heck alone! She doesn't want to talk to you. She's not hanging out at a bar looking around for company. I don't care if she's the most beautiful person you have ever seen in your whole life. Leave her alone.

 

What's acceptable walking down the street? A polite nod. Which is the modern way of tipping your hat. Really, that's about it. don't stare, don't tell her to smile, don't tell her how pretty she looks.

 

If a woman is at a bar alone and is not reading, engrossed in her phone, clearly waiting for someone or otherwise obviously completely closed to any interaction, but is looking around, seems open to approach, then you have the server/bartender send her a second of whatever she is drinking, whether it's beer or pop or whatever. How she reacts to it is your answer as to whether or not you can do anything else. And if you can't, don't stare, get pissed, or whatever else.

 

^^This.  ^^

 

She might be polite, but if the bartender or bouncer comes over to talk to her about something, don't think he is cutting in on your "action".  Odds are, she signaled him.

 

I have had many "cousins" whose girlfriends have come in over the years.

The tone of this discussion took a weird turn somewhere. We've established that cat-calling and harassing women walking down the street is inappropriate. Then it evolved into explaining when it's appropriate to strike up a conversation with someone.

 

Based on the last couple posts, men are only allowed to approach women in bars that are clearly looking for somebody to talk to, when not waiting for somebody else. What about a coffee shop or in line at the grocery store? Experience tells me the window is not that narrow in real life. There should be a giant asterisk next to all of these ground rules. ***

 

*** Unless you are good looking.

If a mod wants to get ambitious, this cat-calling thing probably deserves its own thread.

^We already do have one - http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php/topic,6560.0.html :)

I don't know that the discussion has enough legs for its own thread but I will start one if we're going to continue to debate it.

 

Mendo, re: what you said, sure, there is a lot of gray area. I used the bar as a singular example. Obviously if you're at a party at someone's home or at a bookstore or something, there are ways to tell socially if someone is open to being approached or not, and a way to come up and say hello.  While there might be 100 variations of that, there is only one "walking down the street, staring straight ahead, clearly not wanting to be talked to" when women are routinely, regularly, minute-by-minute verbally assaulted. I have never had anyone say "hey baby" or "looking good mama" at a bookstore. This is not a thread about when is good to meet women. The reason I posted the video was to be very clear that thousands and thousands of women do not want to be bothered when they are simply walking down the street, and please leave us alone.

 

Here's a good rule of thumb: if the woman was walking with a man next to her, would you say, act and do the exact same thing with the exact same delivery, manner and intention as you would if the woman was alone? If your answer is at all "No, I would not," including any supplemental thoughts, such as "I don't want to piss the guy off," "I don't want to look like I'm hitting on his property," "That would be rude, if she is with someone already," etc., then you should NOT do it, say it, behave that way, etc. Period, end of story. I don't care if some women pretend to like it, if some women are dressed scantily or in tight clothing, if someone women "holla back," (which is an attempt also to be seen as a person and not a piece of meat by the way, and to look like you have a backbone and are not a victim, which is self-protecting behavior) or whatever. If you wouldn't say it when there is a man next to her, don't say it.

 

 

There should be a giant asterisk next to all of these ground rules. ***

 

*** Unless you are good looking.

 

***** or rich

 

Picking Up Girls In A Lamborghini Without Talking!

I don't know that the discussion has enough legs for its own thread but I will start one if we're going to continue to debate it.

 

Mendo, re: what you said, sure, there is a lot of gray area. I used the bar as a singular example. Obviously if you're at a party at someone's home or at a bookstore or something, there are ways to tell socially if someone is open to being approached or not, and a way to come up and say hello.  While there might be 100 variations of that, there is only one "walking down the street, staring straight ahead, clearly not wanting to be talked to" when women are routinely, regularly, minute-by-minute verbally assaulted. I have never had anyone say "hey baby" or "looking good mama" at a bookstore. This is not a thread about when is good to meet women. The reason I posted the video was to be very clear that thousands and thousands of women do not want to be bothered when they are simply walking down the street, and please leave us alone.

 

Here's a good rule of thumb: if the woman was walking with a man next to her, would you say, act and do the exact same thing with the exact same delivery, manner and intention as you would if the woman was alone? If your answer is at all "No, I would not," including any supplemental thoughts, such as "I don't want to piss the guy off," "I don't want to look like I'm hitting on his property," "That would be rude, if she is with someone already," etc., then you should NOT do it, say it, behave that way, etc. Period, end of story. I don't care if some women pretend to like it, if some women are dressed scantily or in tight clothing, if someone women "holla back," (which is an attempt also to be seen as a person and not a piece of meat by the way, and to look like you have a backbone and are not a victim, which is self-protecting behavior) or whatever. If you wouldn't say it when there is a man next to her, don't say it.

 

As far as some of the denizens of Public Square are concerned, the guy should look like (Stone Cold) Steve Austin.  Or if you prefer, Jabal Sheard.

 

Otherwise, exactly.

^^^I don't know why you assume all women fit one mold and that you can possibly understand the thought process of half of the population.  That's kind of sexist if you ask me.  Men are very different from other men.  Women are very different from other women.  You loathe the behavior more than most women I know and have every right to.  I loathe certain behavior, particularly the double-standard employed by some older women, who have said things to me I would never be allowed to say to them without recourse.  I also loathe the aggressive cat-callers among men.  But I am not on board for some formalized method to approaching women you might be interested in.  Sometimes you just have to "go see about a girl."  You never know where it might lead.

 

DISCLAIMER: If you read my post as encouraging cat-calling, diminishing the effect it has on some women, or anything else devious, then read it again..... and again.... and again, until you can comprehend.

The tone of this discussion took a weird turn somewhere. We've established that cat-calling and harassing women walking down the street is inappropriate. Then it evolved into explaining when it's appropriate to strike up a conversation with someone.

 

Based on the last couple posts, men are only allowed to approach women in bars that are clearly looking for somebody to talk to, when not waiting for somebody else. What about a coffee shop or in line at the grocery store? Experience tells me the window is not that narrow in real life. There should be a giant asterisk next to all of these ground rules. ***

 

*** Unless you are good looking.

 

Rich, a celebrity, a cop, a fireman, a musician, or you work in a bar (while you are there).

 

This group has different rules.  :evil:

^^^ Works less well with a van.

well for starters, I have talked about this with literally hundreds of women. I've been a woman for 45 years and this is the kind of thing women discuss amongst themselves. The vast majority do not like this behavior. There are huge, sweeping movements to try to stop the behavior all over the internet with thousands of likes and comments voicing the same opinion I have. It's not like it's just my one voice in the din here. It's a known issue to many, many women who do not like it. There is perhaps no issue that ALL women or ALL men agree on 100% in every corner of the world. But it's a pretty clear majority of women who would prefer not to be harassed simply walking down the street. Why can't we just stop it.

 

Just because all people do not agree that the N-word is a bad word doesn't mean that it's ok to keep using it just because YOU think it's ok, right? Or that your next door neighbor does, right? The vast majority find it awful and wanted it to stop, and it became something that completely fell out of favor to say, to the extent that it's considered a slur now. because it became socially unacceptable to say it. Can we please do that with bothering women on the street, is all I am saying.

For sure, nobody should be harassed, men or women.  I just don't agree with your formalized rules.  There are plenty of scenarios/situations where I think it is perfectly appropriate to try to 'pick up' a woman.  It is how a few very happy couples I know initially met.  It is how the parents of my god-daughter met.  I was with him when he did it.  Total cold approach at a diner.  Don't underestimate the nerve a guy has to work up to approach a woman.  He should do so politely and respectfully.  I think everyone agrees that harassing and disrespectful comments are not appropriate.  We can put that one to rest.  That is just common sense..... a trait certainly lacking in a significant portion of the population if you haven't noticed.  However, that said, don't pretend that some women (certainly not a majority) don't like/invite the 'hollas', no matter what kind of psychological mumbo-jumbo twist you can place on it.

Diner is not walking down the street. As I pointed out, I'm not talking about any scenario except walking down the street, clearly not looking at people and clearly not wanting to be bothered. that's it. That's the only scenario. You are free to disagree and feel like doing that is a "judgment call" but a lot of women really loathe it.

Hmmmm.... in that singular scenario, I think there is a judgment call to make.  A 45 year old woman on her way to work or with kids, I would say no way.  Other scenarios, such as walking across a college quad, I would say go for it if you got the guts.  Again, a respectful and polite approach..... not disrespectful or harassing comments yelled from afar.  The gym is another huge gray area.  Some women I know hate it more than anything when a guy approaches them at a gym.  On the other hand, I know one woman who has been waiting for more than a year for a certain guy to approach her at her gym.  She doesn't even know his name, so we jokingly call him "gym/jim guy".  Of course, she thinks the guy is hot, so that makes a difference.  Different women.... different preferences/tolerances.

Now there you go - we agree! I think the gym is a huge gray area as well, and have found equal numbers of women on both sides of the equation.

 

Per your example, how do you know if a woman is "on her way to work" though? I wear exactly, and I mean exactly the outfit this lady in the video wears to work at least once a week. I wear leggings like 3 days a week and fitted t-shirts, and jeans and things. I am on my way to work. My workplace is casual dress.

Ever noticed how total loser guys constantly wind up with women they don't deserve? It's because they are extremely outgoing while everyone else isn't. Don't expect these outgoing guys to curb their behavior so that they spend as much time alone as nice guys do. Or even more really, since if those guys aren't in women's faces all the time they won't get any attention from them due to being losers visibly.

Nice guys sleep alone ;)

It's a pretty simple set of rules.

 

1) Someone walks past you on the street and you have no interaction with them. Don't try to get their attention.

 

2) You have some type of interaction with her (sitting next to her on the subway, opening a door for her or having the door opened for you, asking when the next bus comes, next to her at the gym, etc) you can try to strike up a conversation. If she has no interest, promptly stop. Don't pursue further. Bars, clubs, etc if she turns you down, don't pressure her further.

 

Is there any room for disagreement? And you can be outgoing without trying to talk to every attractive woman you pass on the street or pestering someone until they say yes or that they have a boyfriend (even if they don't have one just to get you to leave).

ryanlammi, I think that's great but a lot of guys would not agree with what you posted. They think there's nothing wrong with trying to get the attention of a woman on the street, and that's the disconnect.

There's an unfortunate logic to it- Catcalling and harassing isn't likely to get these guys anywhere, but it's more effective than respecting women's boundaries, which is 100% ineffective.  And there's little cost in making a failed attempt, assuming you're the kind of guy that doesn't mind being a creep.  And some of these guys clearly get off just on the harassing itself.

 

All of which is bad math for women and nice guys alike. 

My friend, who lives in NYC, utilizes the, "yeah, you like this?" approach. Guys almost always have no clue how to respond when a girl actually responds in such a manner. I've been with her when that happened and the construction workers just stopped smiling and laughing and just watched her walk on by. They were shocked an attractive female actually responded to them.

 

She also occasionally grabs her crotch and says, "hey boys" to get them to shut up which is equally effective but not quite as socially acceptable.

Women "don't want no scrubs hangin out the passenger side of their best friend's ride tryin to holla at" them.  Don't be a scrub.  Take that anyway you want.

 

Simple as that.

Street harasser haunted by woman who got away with dignity intact