October 26, 20213 yr Allegiant, leaving Cleveland Hopkins in January, will fly from Akron-Canton Airport in March. https://www.cleveland.com/business/2021/10/allegiant-leaving-cleveland-hopkins-in-january-will-fly-from-akron-canton-airport-in-march.html
October 26, 20213 yr 22 minutes ago, LibertyBlvd said: Allegiant, leaving Cleveland Hopkins in January, will fly from Akron-Canton Airport in March. https://www.cleveland.com/business/2021/10/allegiant-leaving-cleveland-hopkins-in-january-will-fly-from-akron-canton-airport-in-march.html Good riddance!
October 26, 20213 yr ^^Lol, does this qualify as a "poach?" I guess they will have lower fees and retain proximity to Greater Cleveland passengers.
October 26, 20213 yr Burke plays into their secondary airport game, kind of surprised they weren't there from the get-go. Facilities probably aren't up to par at BKL but meh, doesn't seem like a huge loss to me.
October 27, 20213 yr Sigh. NEO needs one strong airport, not two glorified bus shelters and is this a dig at CLE as opposed to CAK who are at least aggressively trying to attract service. It's easy to sit here and say its only Allegiant or its only Breeze but this is not an airport with a terminal bursting at the seams. Where is the growth?
October 27, 20213 yr Unfortunately, I doubt CLE will ever be an airport bursting at the seams unless this region starts growing again. I think it is going to have to come primarily from the big boys - United, Delta, American - airlines committed to the region and not ones just looking to make a quick buck. Speaking of growth, what's happening with the CLE master plan? Is it going to sit and collect dust for the next few years just like the previous master plan? Edited October 27, 20213 yr by LibertyBlvd
October 27, 20213 yr 1 hour ago, LibertyBlvd said: Unfortunately, I doubt CLE will ever be an airport bursting at the seams unless this region starts growing again. Or we extend rail to the airport to make it easier for a larger population to get in and out.
October 27, 20213 yr 2 hours ago, LibertyBlvd said: Unfortunately, I doubt CLE will ever be an airport bursting at the seams unless this region starts growing again. I think it is going to have to come primarily from the big boys - United, Delta, American - airlines committed to the region and not ones just looking to make a quick buck. Speaking of growth, what's happening with the CLE master plan? Is it going to sit and collect dust for the next few years just like the previous master plan? Next comes preliminary engineering and environmental documentation which will take a couple of years. Then funding procurement and final engineering which will take another year or so. Then, if all of the funding can be secured when they want it and bidding goes smoothly, construction *might* begin by about 2025. For those who are not patient, it might be best to avert your eyes from the transportation project development process. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
October 27, 20213 yr 3 hours ago, LibertyBlvd said: Speaking of growth, what's happening with the CLE master plan? Is it going to sit and collect dust for the next few years just like the previous master plan? I believe it sits on somebody's desk at the FAA awaiting approval. That has to come first. Remember: It's the Year of the Snake
October 27, 20213 yr 53 minutes ago, KJP said: Next comes preliminary engineering and environmental documentation which will take a couple of years. Then funding procurement and final engineering which will take another year or so. Then, if all of the funding can be secured when they want it and bidding goes smoothly, construction *might* begin by about 2025. For those who are not patient, it might be best to avert your eyes from the transportation project development process. But that's only if the plan is to be implemented, right? They did the plan because they HAD to, not because they wanted to or had any vision. Hopkins is not forced to implement any piece of it. So are you saying there are actual plans to implement it?
October 27, 20213 yr 5 minutes ago, Pugu said: But that's only if the plan is to be implemented, right? They did the plan because they HAD to, not because they wanted to or had any vision. Hopkins is not forced to implement any piece of it. So are you saying there are actual plans to implement it? Based on the meetings that were held earlier this year, it sounded like nothing will begin until the passenger numbers return to pre-pandemic levels, and their estimate was 2024.
October 28, 20213 yr Alaska Airlines announces nonstop service between Cleveland and Seattle. https://www.cleveland.com/business/2021/10/alaska-airlines-announces-nonstop-service-between-cleveland-and-seattle-starting-in-june.html
October 28, 20213 yr 8 minutes ago, LibertyBlvd said: Alaska Airlines announces nonstop service between Cleveland and Seattle. https://www.cleveland.com/business/2021/10/alaska-airlines-announces-nonstop-service-between-cleveland-and-seattle-starting-in-june.html Finally!
October 28, 20213 yr Even though it’s only one route I think everyone would take the trade of allegiant for Alaska airlines especially because we still have spirit and frontier. Hoping this is just the start.
October 28, 20213 yr On 10/27/2021 at 12:35 PM, LibertyBlvd said: Based on the meetings that were held earlier this year, it sounded like nothing will begin until the passenger numbers return to pre-pandemic levels, and their estimate was 2024. The timeframe also reflects their intention to pay down existing debt before taking on more debt. There are substantial loans that will be paid off around the time they intend to start new construction. When is the last time I-71 turned a profit?
October 28, 20213 yr It's about time. Alaska and Virgin, pre merger, should have had a base here in Cleveland. Good news, hopefully there will be more expansion if this route doe well. I hope that Portland, LA, San Fran and/or San Jose and San Diego hubs are connected to CLE.
October 28, 20213 yr It's interesting that Susan Glaser's artice (follow-up to the first one) mentions Alaska's codeshare with American. Between AA and fellow-codesharer JetBlue, they cover east coast cities Boston, NYC, Philadelphia, and Washington, from CLE. While SEA-CLE-xxx won't be a preferred routing, it will get used when SEA-East Coast nonstops are cancelled. This can produce a good bit of traffic to support the route. The combined AA group will have at least 40 CLE departures next summer. We're almost talking about a mini-hub. 😉 Now if they can add British Airways, another AA partner, to the mix ... Remember: It's the Year of the Snake
October 28, 20213 yr 2 hours ago, Dougal said: It's interesting that Susan Glaser's artice (follow-up to the first one) mentions Alaska's codeshare with American. Between AA and fellow-codesharer JetBlue, they cover east coast cities Boston, NYC, Philadelphia, and Washington, from CLE. While SEA-CLE-xxx won't be a preferred routing, it will get used when SEA-East Coast nonstops are cancelled. This can produce a good bit of traffic to support the route. The combined AA group will have at least 40 CLE departures next summer. We're almost talking about a mini-hub. 😉 Now if they can add British Airways, another AA partner, to the mix ... CLE has been an on/off focus city for American for years. When my mom was a FA, she would fly CLE to JFK for Europe or CLE to SJU (AA Carib hub in the 70s/80s) to cover the islands. Along with BA, I wouldn't mind seeing Hawaiian and Royal Jordanian a target specific airline for the region.
October 29, 20213 yr 20 hours ago, MyTwoSense said: It's about time. Alaska and Virgin, pre merger, should have had a base here in Cleveland. Good news, hopefully there will be more expansion if this route doe well. I hope that Portland, LA, San Fran and/or San Jose and San Diego hubs are connected to CLE. Historically in the Midwest, they will add a second flight daily to SEA, similar to Columbus, Indianapolis, Milwaukee, sh*ttsburgh and Cincinnati. Chicago is the only exception to this though but understandably with the population size and service offerings in ORD. New markets to fly are rare for them to add, possible but keep expectations low. Edited October 29, 20213 yr by savadams13
October 30, 20213 yr On 10/28/2021 at 12:36 PM, MyTwoSense said: It's about time. Alaska and Virgin, pre merger, should have had a base here in Cleveland. Good news, hopefully there will be more expansion if this route doe well. I hope that Portland, LA, San Fran and/or San Jose and San Diego hubs are connected to CLE. Remember....United is the elephant in the room. Any carrier entering CLE market must always be aware that UAL can counter with its base of loyal passengers. UAL has been quietly adding back some city pairs from CLE and from what i understand, they are permanent. They have added back PHX and LAS just recently.
October 30, 20213 yr On 10/28/2021 at 3:53 PM, MyTwoSense said: CLE has been an on/off focus city for American for years. When my mom was a FA, she would fly CLE to JFK for Europe or CLE to SJU (AA Carib hub in the 70s/80s) to cover the islands. Along with BA, I wouldn't mind seeing Hawaiian and Royal Jordanian a target specific airline for the region. If it aint UAL or another Star Alliance carrier, int'l wont happen - well maybe with a major subsidy. UAL or LH could make CLE-FRA work.
October 30, 20213 yr On 10/28/2021 at 3:53 PM, MyTwoSense said: CLE has been an on/off focus city for American for years. When my mom was a FA, she would fly CLE to JFK for Europe or CLE to SJU (AA Carib hub in the 70s/80s) to cover the islands. Along with BA, I wouldn't mind seeing Hawaiian and Royal Jordanian a target specific airline for the region. Prior to 1978 and AAs departure from the Chrysler Bldg for a Texas Prarie, CLE served as an east-west connector for the burgs of upstate NY. They also flew to BOS, LGA and JFK....Imagine 707 service from CLE to ROC, SYR, BUF and Niagara Falls in summer...yes, they had airline service. AA flew to LAX, SFO also, 3x a day to each...this on top of UAs multiple daily west coast service. Edited October 30, 20213 yr by B767PILOT
October 31, 20213 yr ^ And AA was using DC 10s on some of those flights to LA and NY. AA ranked 2nd behind UA in service from CLE at the time.
October 31, 20213 yr Around 1970 (plus or minus), flying from ROC to CLE, when my Mohawk flight had to make an emergency landing right after takeoff, they put me on an AA DC-10 for the 50 minute flight. It was the only time I ever had to assume the crouch position in an airplane.
October 31, 20213 yr 33 minutes ago, urb-a-saurus said: Around 1970 (plus or minus), flying from ROC to CLE, when my Mohawk flight had to make an emergency landing right after takeoff, they put me on an AA DC-10 for the 50 minute flight. It was the only time I ever had to assume the crouch position in an airplane. Thst must have been memorable. Do you recall the the reason?. Ive been flying over 40 years since my student pilot days and never had an inflight emergency like that. Yes, ive had equipment failure that necessitated a return or immediate landing, but not one that would indicate a loss of control/crash
October 31, 20213 yr 19 hours ago, B767PILOT said: If it aint UAL or another Star Alliance carrier, int'l wont happen - well maybe with a major subsidy. UAL or LH could make CLE-FRA work. LH might like the idea of CLE-FRA and CLE could probably support a 787-8 at most on a European route; but LH's transatlantic planes are all bigger than that. Meanwhile Kirby at UA in the earnings conference call last week said that point-to-point was over and UA's future growth will be hub-oriented. Could UA reconsider a CLE-hub? Well, maybe, if their electric commuter planes ever fly economically. I think they were astonished at the traffic boom in CLE after they canned the hub. Remember: It's the Year of the Snake
October 31, 20213 yr An A330 could work with a UAL codeshare. Or 767 on UAL. There seems to be feed into CLE with these new P2P additions. You are correct quoting Kirby but the recent P2P routes from CLE are permanent. So now UA is offering some significant long haul routes. LAX, SFO, PHX, LAS. Add in AS to SEA and eventually DAL to SLC and CLE is covered fairly well on transcons. And its on a premium carrier. Not Southwest or Spirit. As far as the hub is concerned, no it will not come back. Mid-continent hubs like CLE, CVG or STL arent really necessary. B737s can now fly transcon non-stop. The intermediate stops necessitated by range are no longer required. The only way such a hub could work is if there were significant O&D. The rise in traffic after the hub closure was a result of lower fares. Hubs are expensive and fares artificially high. Once UALs pricing power was ended, fares lowered and more people could afford to fly
November 1, 20213 yr 10 hours ago, B767PILOT said: As far as the hub is concerned, no it will not come back. Mid-continent hubs like CLE, CVG or STL arent really necessary. I tried some number crunching after the hub closure and got a strong indication that the traffic that used to transit CLE went more to Detroit than to Chicago; but I'm just an amateur. Do you have any insight into whether that might have been true? Remember: It's the Year of the Snake
November 1, 20213 yr Thought you all might enjoy this 1985 Hopkins brochure... "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
November 3, 20213 yr On 11/1/2021 at 12:15 AM, Dougal said: I tried some number crunching after the hub closure and got a strong indication that the traffic that used to transit CLE went more to Detroit than to Chicago; but I'm just an amateur. Do you have any insight into whether that might have been true? If they went to Detroit, that would mean they also switched airlines from UAL to DAL. I honestly dont know if that actually happened. Thing is, while CLE is not a "hub" it is a significant focus city for United. After the hubs, CLE has the most flights of any other UAL station. They do offer connections thru CLE - not much - but still. I beleive they are now over 40 flights per day. You also have to remember that CO/UAL never really made CLE a major connective hub. Alot of their traffic was O&D generated. To be profitable, hubs need significant economies of scale or high fares. In my opinion, CO/UAL never maximised their profit potential. CO recognised this in 2007 when they announced a major expansion- only to cancell a few months later when the 2008 panic hit, then the merger two years later put the final nail in that
November 3, 20213 yr On 11/1/2021 at 1:31 PM, KJP said: Thought you all might enjoy this 1985 Hopkins brochure... Thanks for this. It doesnt show the 1985 runway layout. 36/18 was still operational. With those 1st and 2nd generation jets flying then, the good people of rocky river and fairview park got some real doses of jet noise - USAir BAC-111s would really get your attention even with hushkits
November 3, 20213 yr 19 minutes ago, B767PILOT said: You also have to remember that CO/UAL never really made CLE a major connective hub. Alot of their traffic was O&D generated. This is the only way I can see CLE regaining "hub" status, but that would require eliminating domestic flights at BOTH O'Hare and Newark and moving them to Cleveland. IIRC, this was a small part of the expansion plan. Making Cleveland a domestic transfer station to the middle of the country while adding select European, Canadian and S. American flights. Delay prone O'Hare and Newark can operate more efficiently. Cleveland, with excess terminal and runway space, sees an increase in business and leisure travel. Pre Covid, when Newark experienced operational irregularities, flights would bypass Newark and land in Cleveland with Passengers continuing on to the final destination.
November 3, 20213 yr 28 minutes ago, B767PILOT said: CO recognised this in 2007 when they announced a major expansion- only to cancell a few months later when the 2008 panic hit, then the merger two years later put the final nail in that IIRC, CO announced major expansion at CLE a couple times prior to 2007, only to be thwarted by recession of 2002 and jet fuel spike after Hurricane Katrina in 2005.
November 3, 20213 yr 12 minutes ago, MyTwoSense said: This is the only way I can see CLE regaining "hub" status, but that would require eliminating domestic flights at BOTH O'Hare and Newark and moving them to Cleveland. IIRC, this was a small part of the expansion plan. Making Cleveland a domestic transfer station to the middle of the country while adding select European, Canadian and S. American flights. Delay prone O'Hare and Newark can operate more efficiently. Cleveland, with excess terminal and runway space, sees an increase in business and leisure travel. Pre Covid, when Newark experienced operational irregularities, flights would bypass Newark and land in Cleveland with Passengers continuing on to the final destination. They still send traffic to CLE when EWR, IAD, ORD have problems. Being a large UA station, CLE is set-up perfectly. Plus, it has a customs facility. But the only way CLE regains any semblance of a hub is for O&D to dramatically increase to alot of destinations. Even then, i would only predict an even larger focus city flying more city pairs - which could provide some feed.
November 5, 20213 yr There was an eight-hour long "hiring event" Tuesday at CLE for AA rampies and customer service agants. I wonder if we should read anything into that. https://www.envoyair.com/events/clevela ... ing-event/ Remember: It's the Year of the Snake
November 5, 20213 yr Looks like your link above got cut off. Here is the full link. https://www.envoyair.com/events/cleveland-hopkins-international-airport-ramp-and-customer-service-agents-hiring-event/
November 19, 20213 yr That's the Spirit! https://www.cleveland.com/business/2021/11/spirit-airlines-planning-expansion-at-cleveland-hopkins-airport.html
November 24, 20213 yr 9 hours ago, Dougal said: They seemed to have left out the 3 massive runways... 😜
November 24, 20213 yr 2 hours ago, Cleburger said: They seemed to have left out the 3 massive runways... 😜 Which, fortunately, are not covered with slippery succulents. 🙃 Remember: It's the Year of the Snake
December 2, 20213 yr Airfare at CLE is among the nation’s cheapest. https://www.cleveland.com/travel/2021/12/airfare-at-cleveland-hopkins-airport-is-among-the-nations-cheapest-see-the-10-us-airports-with-lowest-fares.html
December 8, 20213 yr On December 3rd for the first time since April 2020, aircraft movements at CLE exceeded the same date in pre-pandemic 2019. That is takeoffs and landings, not passengers; still it's a nice sign of recovery. Blue line is 2021, orange line 2019 Edited December 8, 20213 yr by Dougal Remember: It's the Year of the Snake
December 8, 20213 yr 3 hours ago, Dougal said: On December 3rd for the first time since April 2020, aircraft movements at CLE exceeded the same date in pre-pandemic 2019. That is takeoffs and landings, not passengers; still it's a nice sign of recovery. Blue line is 2021, orange line 2019 Same happened in Columbus! Seems to be more of a timing difference with the post-Thanksgiving travel rebound, but great to see nonetheless.
December 8, 20213 yr 3 hours ago, Dougal said: On December 3rd for the first time since April 2020, aircraft movements at CLE exceeded the same date in pre-pandemic 2019. That is takeoffs and landings, not passengers; still it's a nice sign of recovery. Blue line is 2021, orange line 2019 Nice to see though it looks like the 2021 Thanksgiving bump on the sunday after intersects with the the actual lull from 2020 Thanksgiving weekend which was still ongoing when the Sunday after in 2021 occurred. Thanksgiving this year was Nov 25; last year it was it was Nov 26. Only one day but each data point above is a 7-day average, not the actual date. Nice to see the two lines intersect, nonetheless.
December 8, 20213 yr 56 minutes ago, cbussoccer said: Same happened in Columbus! Seems to be more of a timing difference with the post-Thanksgiving travel rebound, but great to see nonetheless. Actually lots of the rustbelt cities did as well (Columbus, Cincinnati, Indianapolis, Pittsburgh, Milwaukee); not the hubs Chicago, Detroit, and Twin Cities, though; they are still a ways off the pace. Remember: It's the Year of the Snake
December 8, 20213 yr 1 minute ago, Dougal said: Actually lots of the rustbelt cities did as well (Columbus, Cincinnati, Indianapolis, Pittsburgh, Milwaukee); not the hubs Chicago, Detroit, and Twin Cities, though; they are still a ways off the pace. Yep, I figured as much. I looked at Columbus and Indy and then gave up, lol. It's good to see everyone slowly climbing back to where we were a couple years ago.
December 8, 20213 yr 5 hours ago, Dougal said: On December 3rd for the first time since April 2020, aircraft movements at CLE exceeded the same date in pre-pandemic 2019. That is takeoffs and landings, not passengers; still it's a nice sign of recovery. Blue line is 2021, orange line 2019 I wonder how much of this is cargo. There is definitely a lot more UPS/Fedex etc in and out of CLE these days.
December 14, 20213 yr https://www.cleveland.com/news/2021/12/hopkins-airport-gets-4-million-federal-grant-to-offset-concession-revenue-lost-during-the-coronavirus-pandemic.html
December 16, 20213 yr Parking garage at CLE slated for $5 million in repairs. https://www.cleveland.com/business/2021/12/parking-garage-at-cleveland-hopkins-airport-slated-for-5-million-in-repairs.html
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