46 minutes ago, savadams13 said:

The 321LR and the 321XLR will have the "throne seat" which lies flat into bed, plus every other aisle in business is a single seat so you dont have to step over anyone. I think it would be a great product offering for the city and airport 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/travel/travel_news/article-10282187/Business-class-review-majesty-Aer-Lingus-A321-throne-seat-Manchester-NYC.html

 

None of this affects me. I sit with the hoi polloi. 

1 hour ago, savadams13 said:

The 321LR and the 321XLR will have the "throne seat" which lies flat into bed, plus every other aisle in business is a single seat so you dont have to step over anyone. I think it would be a great product offering for the city and airport 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/travel/travel_news/article-10282187/Business-class-review-majesty-Aer-Lingus-A321-throne-seat-Manchester-NYC.html

 

I like this quote from the review: 'There's a definite private jet vibe,' writes Ted, 'as long as you don't look behind the curtain into economy.'

The new CLE-Dublin flights are official!:

 

"Sept 28, 2022: New non-stop Cleveland-Dublin flights are offered on Aer Lingus. Service begins on Friday, May 19, 2023. Flights are 4x weekly departing both CLE and DUB on Sundays, Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays...."

 

https://www.centerforcleveland.org/cleveland. (scroll down to "Newsworthy")

It looks like flight time will be a little more than 7 hours.

35 minutes ago, LibertyBlvd said:

It looks like flight time will be a little more than 7 hours.

If we can maintain this flight, this is a huuuge.

 

That shaves about 3 hours of travel time to get to Europe, considering it usually require a layover. 

51 minutes ago, freefourur said:

If we can maintain this flight, this is a huuuge.

 

That shaves about 3 hours of travel time to get to Europe, considering it usually require a layover. 

I'd think it's probably more than that on average. You also benefit from a more direct flight path, one less time taxiing and landing, and fewer chances for disruptions. 

 

Plus, if you fancy a trip to Ireland, it's now doable over an extended weekend. I'll probably use the direct flight as an excuse to visit Ireland sooner than I otherwise might have. 

6 minutes ago, Ethan said:

I'd think it's probably more than that on average. You also benefit from a more direct flight path, one less time taxiing and landing, and fewer chances for disruptions. 

 

Plus, if you fancy a trip to Ireland, it's now doable over an extended weekend. I'll probably use the direct flight as an excuse to visit Ireland sooner than I otherwise might have. 

 

For reference, I've taken two of the most direct path "layover" flights to Dublin - Boston and Toronto. Both were at least 9 hours of travel time, even when I only had a 40 minute layover in Boston. 

 

I can't tell you how huge this is. I have cousins in Ireland that I see once every 5 years planning to come here for July 4th annually now. 

15 minutes ago, YABO713 said:

 

For reference, I've taken two of the most direct path "layover" flights to Dublin - Boston and Toronto. Both were at least 9 hours of travel time, even when I only had a 40 minute layover in Boston. 

 

I can't tell you how huge this is. I have cousins in Ireland that I see once every 5 years planning to come here for July 4th annually now. 

40 minute layovers are risky too. Any delay creates a worse delay. 

 

I might consider a family trip to Ireland next summer because of this flight.

8 minutes ago, freefourur said:

40 minute layovers are risky too. Any delay creates a worse delay. 

 

I might consider a family trip to Ireland next summer because of this flight.

 

If you do, reach out. 

Already on Aer Lingus site reviewing options... Round-trip for June dates I was already considering to Europe are running as low as $750-$850 (depending on seats, checked bags) CLE-Dublin vs $2,300 on United.. - with cheap flights to onward final destination (Rome) - and an unxpected but welcomed Dublin layover now planned. I was resigned to using miles and may now just pay based on direct flight and these fares.

Photo op from press conference at CLE

Cross-posted in the Cleveland business thread...

 

 

It’s official: Cleveland-Dublin flights start May 19, 2023
By Ken Prendergast / September 28, 2022

 

With backing from Cleveland’s civic and business community, Irish flag carrier Aer Lingus has made it official today — Cleveland-Dublin nonstop flights were added to the airline’s reservation system and direct trips to Europe can now be purchased. The nonstop flights, the first to Europe from Cleveland since before the pandemic, will start Friday, May 19, 2023, according to the airline.

 

MORE:

https://neo-trans.blog/2022/09/28/its-official-cleveland-dublin-flights-start-may-19-2023/

Nice. I fly from Cleveland to Manchester a few times a year and assuming the Aer Lingus timetable stays the same, it will be a whole lot more convenient. Although it will get me into MAN a few hours later than going via NY, Atlanta, Houston etc that’s fine, as I’ll be able to get straight into my hotel after landing more easily. And the time saved at this end getting to one of the hubs will save me anywhere from 4-6 hours. 

I did a quick check, and could fly Wednesday 5/24 to Memorial Day Monday round-trip for ~$450  👀

Aer Lingus to launch nonstop flights from Cleveland Hopkins to Dublin

 

Cleveland Hopkins International Airport and Aer Lingus announced plans on Wednesday to launch transatlantic air service from Cleveland to Europe in May, starting with a nonstop flight to Dublin, Ireland.

 

The airline will offer four weekly nonstop flights to Dublin in May with connections to more than 20 European destinations, the Cleveland airport said in a statement.

 

"The commencement of a new route, accompanied with further network connectivity, is an exciting milestone for the airline during a critical time of recovery for our business," said Reid Moody, chief strategy and planning officer for Aer Lingus Chief, in a statement.

 

More below:

https://www.bizjournals.com/cleveland/news/2022/09/28/cleveland-hopkins-aer-lingus-flights-dublin.html

 

CLE master plan moves forward as they await FAA green light.

 

https://www.news5cleveland.com/news/local-news/cleveland-metro/cleveland-hopkins-2-billion-20-year-master-plan-moves-forward-as-they-await-faa-green-light

Any chance we can get an efficient customs process going before May?

36 minutes ago, BelievelandD1 said:

Any chance we can get an efficient customs process going before May?

We won't needed it. Dublin is a FCIS preclearance airport. 

1 hour ago, BelievelandD1 said:

Any chance we can get an efficient customs process going before May?

It won't happen until the new B concourse is completed, which is part of phase 1 of the master plan.  Let's hope the FAA stops dragging their feet so it can get started soon.

The Twitterverse is saying Jobs Ohio is kicking in $9.4 million PER YEAR for the CLE-DUB route.  Might that number be for the whole three-year trial and not annual?  My recollection of the enabling resolution was that Jobs Ohio was limited to $5 million per year for any single route. 

 

The local $2.6 million and JO's $3.1 (if that is the real annual number) would mean the route 'subsidy' is potentially $5.7 million which is in the ballpark for Midwest-Europe routes.  $11.8 million a year would be a pretty shocking number for a route that doesn't involve London or Paris.

3 hours ago, Dougal said:

The Twitterverse is saying Jobs Ohio is kicking in $9.4 million PER YEAR for the CLE-DUB route.  Might that number be for the whole three-year trial and not annual?  My recollection of the enabling resolution was that Jobs Ohio was limited to $5 million per year for any single route. 

 

The local $2.6 million and JO's $3.1 (if that is the real annual number) would mean the route 'subsidy' is potentially $5.7 million which is in the ballpark for Midwest-Europe routes.  $11.8 million a year would be a pretty shocking number for a route that doesn't involve London or Paris.

 

Damn that's a huge amount of money! If true Cleveland and Jobs Ohio got a bad deal. Pittsburgh and Allegheny County only paid 3 million for two years of service to LHR on a Dreamliner. Alot of people in Cincinnati want another international route, this total sets a bad precedent for airlines to use against regions and business communities. I hope that figure is wrong. 

Further research about the Aer Lingus subsidy:  I'm 99% convinced the $9.4 million for CLE-DUB from Jobs Ohio is a three-year total committment, making it $3.13 million per year.

 

According to https://www.jobsohio.com/programs-services/sites/commercial-air-service-restoration-program/

the JO ceiling for grants/subsidies/guarantees is $10 million a year.  I can't believe that JO would commit essentially the whole program to one CLE route for three years.  The other two C's would raise a hue and cry and they haven't.

1 hour ago, Dougal said:

Further research about the Aer Lingus subsidy:  I'm 99% convinced the $9.4 million for CLE-DUB from Jobs Ohio is a three-year total committment, making it $3.13 million per year.

 

According to https://www.jobsohio.com/programs-services/sites/commercial-air-service-restoration-program/

the JO ceiling for grants/subsidies/guarantees is $10 million a year.  I can't believe that JO would commit essentially the whole program to one CLE route for three years.  The other two C's would raise a hue and cry and they haven't.

 

Does Jobs Ohio have any ability to impact what CVG does, given that it's located in Kentucky?

50 minutes ago, cbussoccer said:

 

Does Jobs Ohio have any ability to impact what CVG does, given that it's located in Kentucky?

Yep, Jobs Ohio has given money to CVG in the past for marketing and other efforts to gain additional flight service, since its effects the Southwest portion of Ohio. CVG is very lucky in the fact though we have both Ohio and KY invested in the airport, very strong cargo service, and existing hub service that has only diminished to focus city status. 

2 hours ago, Dougal said:

Further research about the Aer Lingus subsidy:  I'm 99% convinced the $9.4 million for CLE-DUB from Jobs Ohio is a three-year total committment, making it $3.13 million per year.

 

According to https://www.jobsohio.com/programs-services/sites/commercial-air-service-restoration-program/

the JO ceiling for grants/subsidies/guarantees is $10 million a year.  I can't believe that JO would commit essentially the whole program to one CLE route for three years.  The other two C's would raise a hue and cry and they haven't.

 

Wow this is such a bad deal. I am very happy for Cleveland to gain an Intl route, but this cost is just insane. 

36 minutes ago, savadams13 said:

Wow this is such a bad deal. I am very happy for Cleveland to gain an Intl route, but this cost is just insane. 

And service is only 4x per week. 

1 hour ago, savadams13 said:

 

Wow this is such a bad deal. I am very happy for Cleveland to gain an Intl route, but this cost is just insane. 

In most of these route deals, the intent is to guarantee that the operator doesn't lose his shirt on the deal.  The better the route performs, the more the operator makes in honest profit and the less the operator is paid in subsidy.  I believe PIT only paid Delta cash in the first year of the PIT-Paris route; profitable operation took care of the other years.  (Of course PIT screwed the pooch by next subsidizing British to go to London - Delta cancelled PIT-Paris in retaliation.)

 

So let's all go from Cleveland to Ireland next summer. (I'm actually considering it.)

10 minutes ago, Dougal said:

 

So let's all go from Cleveland to Ireland next summer. (I'm actually considering it.)

 

New routes really do stimulate traffic. I'm planning a trip next summer to DUB with some friends only because of this flight. Ireland was not in the top 5 of places I wanted to go, but since there will a nonstop flight to DUB now, I'm going.

Hell, I may go and Hopkins is only like 2 hours away from me.

1 hour ago, Dougal said:

In most of these route deals, the intent is to guarantee that the operator doesn't lose his shirt on the deal.  The better the route performs, the more the operator makes in honest profit and the less the operator is paid in subsidy.  I believe PIT only paid Delta cash in the first year of the PIT-Paris route; profitable operation took care of the other years.  (Of course PIT screwed the pooch by next subsidizing British to go to London - Delta cancelled PIT-Paris in retaliation.)

 

So let's all go from Cleveland to Ireland next summer. (I'm actually considering it.)

 

1 hour ago, Dougal said:

In most of these route deals, the intent is to guarantee that the operator doesn't lose his shirt on the deal.  The better the route performs, the more the operator makes in honest profit and the less the operator is paid in subsidy.  I believe PIT only paid Delta cash in the first year of the PIT-Paris route; profitable operation took care of the other years.  (Of course PIT screwed the pooch by next subsidizing British to go to London - Delta cancelled PIT-Paris in retaliation.)

 

So let's all go from Cleveland to Ireland next summer. (I'm actually considering it.)

We are already planning a family trip!

4 hours ago, jcw92 said:

 

New routes really do stimulate traffic. I'm planning a trip next summer to DUB with some friends only because of this flight. Ireland was not in the top 5 of places I wanted to go, but since there will a nonstop flight to DUB now, I'm going.

You are going to love it. I may be a little biased because I’m Irish but I’ve been twice, once with my then girlfriend and then with the same girlfriend/wife. We honeymooned in Ireland. Both trips are my favorites overseas for different reasons.

We're booked and going now due to non-stop flight - a few bonus days in Dublin, then already planned Italy itinerary, then back DUB-CLE. Fare so fair I paid to fly Aer Lingus vs free flights on United.

12 hours ago, savadams13 said:

 

Wow this is such a bad deal. I am very happy for Cleveland to gain an Intl route, but this cost is just insane. 

This deal is very commensurate with the subsidies paid by peer airports.  If it’s insane, then apparently insanity is what it takes to start new European service from non-hub airports these days. 

11 hours ago, stpats44113 said:

You are going to love it. I may be a little biased because I’m Irish but I’ve been twice, once with my then girlfriend and then with the same girlfriend/wife. We honeymooned in Ireland. Both trips are my favorites overseas for different reasons.

 

I love Ireland too, and not just because my family also was from there (check out the Prendergast Castle in Enniscorthy -- the train ride from Dublin offers amazing views of the Irish Sea). The Ring of Kerry and west coast of Ireland/Dingle/Slea Head are among the most beautiful, peaceful places on earth I've been to. I will also be using this flight to go back to Ireland with my family.

I thought Dublin was the least impressive part of my trip to Ireland. Seconding @KJP about the Ring of Kerry/Dingle Peninsula. i loved Dromoland, Killarney, and Cork/Blarney Castle. 

6 hours ago, brtshrcegr said:

This deal is very commensurate with the subsidies paid by peer airports.  If it’s insane, then apparently insanity is what it takes to start new European service from non-hub airports these days. 

Pittsburgh paid out 3 million for two years of daily service on British Airways to LHR on 787. Indy has set aside paying out 1.8 million a year for a new European route. Like I said I am glad Cleveland has a transatlantic again, but that number is very exorbitant compared to nearby cities in the region. 

1 hour ago, savadams13 said:

Pittsburgh paid out 3 million for two years of daily service on British Airways to LHR on 787. Indy has set aside paying out 1.8 million a year for a new European route. Like I said I am glad Cleveland has a transatlantic again, but that number is very exorbitant compared to nearby cities in the region. 

Without citations I’m not sure the context for your numbers, Indianapolis paid $3.5 million (in 2017 dollars) for the first year of service. 
 

The Deal That Brought a Delta Transatlantic Flight to Indianapolis

 

St. Louis offered Lufthansa $5 million for two years, but that was only UP TO 3 days a week service. 
 

Nicklaus: In pay-to-play airline industry, $5 million is the cost of putting St. Louis on the map

 

And the Pittsburgh incentives may have been less, but that airport already had Delta service to Paris stimulating the international market (which it later lost).

 

Again, the CLE incentives to Aer Lingus may be “insane”, but not “very exorbitant” within the context of what it takes to play in this field today. 
 

Edited October 7, 20222 yr by brtshrcegr

Incentive to lure Aer Lingus to CLE is actually closer to $12 million over three years.

 

https://www.cleveland.com/entertainment/2022/10/financial-incentive-to-lure-aer-lingus-to-cleveland-hopkins-is-actually-closer-to-12-million-over-three-years.html

30 minutes ago, LibertyBlvd said:

Incentive to lure Aer Lingus to CLE is actually closer to $12 million over three years.

 

https://www.cleveland.com/entertainment/2022/10/financial-incentive-to-lure-aer-lingus-to-cleveland-hopkins-is-actually-closer-to-12-million-over-three-years.html

Are these just guaranteed minimums?  Like is it possible the city/state won't have to hand out all this money if enough people book these flights?  Still fuzzy on how the incentives work.

57 minutes ago, cle_guy90 said:

Are these just guaranteed minimums?  Like is it possible the city/state won't have to hand out all this money if enough people book these flights?  Still fuzzy on how the incentives work.

The article makes it sound like that the money is only paid out if there isn't positive revenue. 

Edited October 7, 20222 yr by KFM44107

Nice historical piece on Hopkins.   Cleveland was the 5th largest city in the country and a innovator!    

 

Cleveland Municipal Airport: Before it was Hopkins, this airport was leading the way in aviation

 

https://www.freshwatercleveland.com/breaking-ground/MasterworksHopkins100522.aspx

Sherwin Williams wants its own hangar at CLE.  30 year ground lease.

 

https://cityofcleveland.legistar.com/LegislationDetail.aspx?ID=5886587&GUID=54F4AE84-7A71-4D07-B400-4CEBDECF5CB0

58 minutes ago, Dougal said:

Sherwin Williams wants its own hangar at CLE.  30 year ground lease.

 

https://cityofcleveland.legistar.com/LegislationDetail.aspx?ID=5886587&GUID=54F4AE84-7A71-4D07-B400-4CEBDECF5CB0

 

I love this!!!

United's earnings conference call indicated the company was looking at establishing crew bases outside their hubs.  So maybe the CLE crewbase (just about the last remnant from the hub days) is not on the endangered species list after all.  It has been hovering around 100 pilots and a similar number of FAs for several years, but I think there was a recent small bit of growth in the pilot numbers.

 

I wouldn't say UA is thinking outside the box, exactly; but at least they're thinking outside Chicago.

20 hours ago, Dougal said:

United's earnings conference call indicated the company was looking at establishing crew bases outside their hubs.  So maybe the CLE crewbase (just about the last remnant from the hub days) is not on the endangered species list after all.  It has been hovering around 100 pilots and a similar number of FAs for several years, but I think there was a recent small bit of growth in the pilot numbers.

 

I wouldn't say UA is thinking outside the box, exactly; but at least they're thinking outside Chicago.

I'm an FA for UA and was previously CLE based. Not sure of the exact pilot numbers, but the flight attendant population grew to over 300 and they are offering CLE to new hires out of training. When I left CLE in December of this year there were 2 inflight supervisors, and now there are 4. Not sure of the amount of growth, but definitely good signs!  

Flights down 24% at CLE.

 

https://www.cleveland.com/news/2022/10/flights-down-24-in-2022-as-cleveland-hopkins-airport-grapples-with-post-pandemic-air-travel.html

Cool: 

 

Once-forgotten Viktor Schreckengost sculpture to be reinstalled at Cleveland Hopkins International Airport

 

https://www.cleveland.com/news/2022/10/once-forgotten-viktor-schreckengost-sculpture-to-be-reinstalled-at-cleveland-hopkins-international-airport.html

10 minutes ago, jcw92 said:

Cool: 

 

Once-forgotten Viktor Schreckengost sculpture to be reinstalled at Cleveland Hopkins International Airport

 

https://www.cleveland.com/news/2022/10/once-forgotten-viktor-schreckengost-sculpture-to-be-reinstalled-at-cleveland-hopkins-international-airport.html

 

Love it. Now how about our huge paper airplane? 

Hopkins receives so little respect from airline route planners, it should be renamed "Rodney Danger Field."

3 hours ago, surfohio said:

 

Love it. Now how about our huge paper airplane? 

I think it's still in the tunnel gathering dust.