March 3, 20232 yr On 2/10/2023 at 11:57 AM, Boomerang_Brian said: I’m not sure if I follow your question, but the plan for the rental car facility is to put it in a large new garage right on site on the current Orange lot location. There are no plans for an on-site hotel. Phase 1: Final phase: Still hard to believe they decided Concourse A was worth keeping, but maybe I’ll be pleasantly surprised.
March 3, 20232 yr 23 minutes ago, LibertyBlvd said: Compared to B and C, A isn't that bad. It just needs a little TLC. They appear to agree with you. I will withhold judgement for now 🙃
March 6, 20232 yr On 3/3/2023 at 12:05 PM, LibertyBlvd said: Compared to B and C, A isn't that bad. It just needs a little TLC. A is a wider concourse, good ceiling height overall, its worth keeping and doing a nice FF&E remodel similar to CVG with Concourse A.
March 28, 20232 yr Frontier announces expansion at CLE. https://www.cleveland.com/travel/2023/03/frontier-airlines-announces-major-expansion-at-cleveland-hopkins-with-new-flights-to-san-diego-san-francisco-dallas-and-charlotte.html
March 28, 20232 yr On 2/28/2023 at 11:59 AM, Dougal said: The release of Frontier's summer schedule could tell the tale. If either CVG or CLE sees a significant bump, that will be Frontier's domicile choice. 1 hour ago, LibertyBlvd said: Frontier announces expansion at CLE. https://www.cleveland.com/travel/2023/03/frontier-airlines-announces-major-expansion-at-cleveland-hopkins-with-new-flights-to-san-diego-san-francisco-dallas-and-charlotte.html @Dougaldoes this make you think that Frontier is choosing CLE?
March 28, 20232 yr 4 hours ago, cle_guy90 said: @Dougaldoes this make you think that Frontier is choosing CLE? It reminds me that back in 2014 Frontier *almost* chose CLE to be an eastern hub, balancing DEN as their western hub. Instead, more or less abandoning hubs, they chose to pursue the ultra low cost carrier approach and chased all kinds of high traffic routes. Maybe now they are remembering the CLE possibilities. I'm not expecting a classic style hub in CLE, but maybe a "focus city where they could collect traffic to support a bunch of TATL routes. PHL is their other opportunity, based on close mileage, but AA will give them trouble there. Who is going to fight them for CLE? Aer Lingus? Remember: It's the Year of the Snake
March 28, 20232 yr Cleveland Hopkins airport to gain 4 Frontier Airlines routes Frontier Airlines is planning to add seasonal nonstop service from Cleveland Hopkins International Airport to San Francisco and San Diego, California; Dallas, Texas; and Charlotte, North Carolina, beginning in late spring. With the additional flights, Frontier would serve 17 nonstop destinations from Cleveland — the most of any airline operating from Cleveland Hopkins, the Denver, Colorado-based ultra-low-fare carrier said in a statement. Frontier said it expects to begin offering: Four flights a week each to Dallas and Charlotte on May 12. Three flights a week to San Diego on June 8. Four flights a week to San Francisco on June 23. The flights are seasonal, meaning they don't run year-round. And Frontier passengers must pay additional fees for services such as refundability, a carry-on bag, a checked bag, the best available seat, waived change fees and priority boarding, Frontier said. More below: https://www.bizjournals.com/cleveland/news/2023/03/28/cleveland-hopkins-to-gain-4-frontier-routes.html "You don't just walk into a bar and mix it up by calling a girl fat" - buildingcincinnati speaking about new forumers
March 29, 20232 yr 14 hours ago, ColDayMan said: Cleveland Hopkins airport to gain 4 Frontier Airlines routes Frontier Airlines is planning to add seasonal nonstop service from Cleveland Hopkins International Airport to San Francisco and San Diego, California; Dallas, Texas; and Charlotte, North Carolina, beginning in late spring. With the additional flights, Frontier would serve 17 nonstop destinations from Cleveland — the most of any airline operating from Cleveland Hopkins, the Denver, Colorado-based ultra-low-fare carrier said in a statement. Frontier said it expects to begin offering: Four flights a week each to Dallas and Charlotte on May 12. Three flights a week to San Diego on June 8. Four flights a week to San Francisco on June 23. The flights are seasonal, meaning they don't run year-round. And Frontier passengers must pay additional fees for services such as refundability, a carry-on bag, a checked bag, the best available seat, waived change fees and priority boarding, Frontier said. More below: https://www.bizjournals.com/cleveland/news/2023/03/28/cleveland-hopkins-to-gain-4-frontier-routes.html Well, at least that will provide an economic boost to chiropractors in the affected cities. Frontier's seats are the worst.... "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
March 29, 20232 yr 5 minutes ago, KJP said: Well, at least that will provide an economic boost to chiropractors in the affected cities. Frontier's seats are the worst.... No joke I just flew back to Columbus from Denver, and I bring my own seat cushion that I used to use at high school football games. Worst planes ever. We just used up the last of some points we had and will no longer fly with them ever again. By the time you do bags it's so over priced and overrated. You get what you pay for I suppose.
March 29, 20232 yr 12 minutes ago, KJP said: Well, at least that will provide an economic boost to chiropractors in the affected cities. Frontier's seats are the worst.... It's not too bad for shorter flights. The Orlando flights are doable, though there is some back cracking needed at the end. I wouldn't want to be on either of the California flights though. 4+ hours is a bit too much for those seats, even for a shorty like me.
March 29, 20232 yr 9 minutes ago, LibertyBlvd said: I've never been on Frontier. Is this what their seats look like? More like this. We flew Frontier to Cancun. The next day my wife's back went out. She needed a wheelchair just to eat and reach the restaurants in our "all-inclusive" resort. Had to cancel our visit to Chichén Itzá. Ruined the week-long trip. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
March 29, 20232 yr 22 minutes ago, LibertyBlvd said: I've never been on Frontier. Is this what their seats look like? Oh man cup holders. You'd have to pay extra for that on Frontier.
March 29, 20232 yr Spirit's seats are worse, IMHO. Then again, everything else about Spirit is worse, as well.
March 29, 20232 yr 55 minutes ago, LibertyBlvd said: I've never been on Frontier. Is this what their seats look like? No, on Frontier, you wouldn't need a beverage holder.
March 29, 20232 yr 30 minutes ago, Ineffable_Matt said: Spirit's seats are worse, IMHO. Then again, everything else about Spirit is worse, as well. I just flew Spirit to Fort Lauderdale and returned from Tampa via a layover at Atlanta to Cleveland. Three airplanes, three different styles of seats. The flight from Tampa to Atlanta actually had very comfortable seats. The Atlanta-Cleveland flight was less padded/upholstered. And the FLL-CLE flight was the old Spirit lawnchair seats. We went for a nice walk along the AIA and on the beach that evening and worked out the kinks. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
March 29, 20232 yr 45 minutes ago, KJP said: I just flew Spirit to Fort Lauderdale and returned from Tampa via a layover at Atlanta to Cleveland. Three airplanes, three different styles of seats. The flight from Tampa to Atlanta actually had very comfortable seats. The Atlanta-Cleveland flight was less padded/upholstered. And the FLL-CLE flight was the old Spirit lawnchair seats. We went for a nice walk along the AIA and on the beach that evening and worked out the kinks. I was in Europe recently and flew several budget airlines once across the pond -- Ryanair and easyJet. Zero first-class or business-class seats. Slightly more legroom than economy in most US airlines, but the seats were "normal" comfort compared to economy class seats on the major US airlines. And yes, you paid for every bag and the cost differential started at smaller, lighter bags than in the US. Lots of people brought only one bag and it went in the overhead bin but was 2/3 the size of an American carry-on. I will have no hesitation to use budget airlines for my next intra-European trip. (the trains were a lot nicer than the airlines and that will always be my first choice, but east-west travel isn't as easy)
March 29, 20232 yr Ryanair and Vueling blow away Frontier or Spirit. The only Euro-carrier that is darn near Frontier/Spirit is Pegasus but their seats at least are comfortableish. For me, though, Jetstar Japan was the best value/budget carrier I've ever seen. It was better than Delta but at Ryanair prices. "You don't just walk into a bar and mix it up by calling a girl fat" - buildingcincinnati speaking about new forumers
March 29, 20232 yr I have not had an issue flying Frontier. The seats are not that bad with the exception that they do not recline at all. The one thing I hate are the tray tables being so small unless you sit up near the front of the plane and can get a regular sized tray table.
March 29, 20232 yr You guys are being very generous. Frontier and Spirit are, in my experience, absolutely nightmares. The lack of leg room and quality of seat materials are abysmal, embarassing. At least Southwest gives you coffee.
March 29, 20232 yr I did a transatlantic on Brussels Air - the Euro equivalent of Spirit - and by the time we landed I would've cashed in my 401k to pay for a different return flight
March 29, 20232 yr 25 minutes ago, Brutus_buckeye said: I have not had an issue flying Frontier. The seats are not that bad with the exception that they do not recline at all. The one thing I hate are the tray tables being so small unless you sit up near the front of the plane and can get a regular sized tray table. THIS. Those tray tables are darn near unusable, especially if you've brought your own food to eat. There's barely enough space to unwrap a sandwich!
March 29, 20232 yr The only time I flew Spirit, I did pay the upcharge for a slightly better seat (I forget the name) and was glad I did, seeing what others were in. That was from Cleveland to Dallas a few years ago for my wife's HS reunion (which somehow ended up being held in Dallas even though her high school was in Chennai ... a testament to how many of her high school class ended up in the US).
March 29, 20232 yr 4 hours ago, Gnoraa said: No joke I just flew back to Columbus from Denver, and I bring my own seat cushion that I used to use at high school football games. Worst planes ever. We just used up the last of some points we had and will no longer fly with them ever again. By the time you do bags it's so over priced and overrated. You get what you pay for I suppose. I don't disagree - but these flights do serve a purpose. My dad flies twice a year to Tampa to visit a friend for a long weekend. He packs a duffle bag and nothing else and swears by the flights.
March 29, 20232 yr I did not love Allegiant. With Frontier, I probably still remember the days when they were a more full service carrier so I guess I give them the benefit of the doubt sometimes. I have never had a bad experience flying them stateside, but from what I have heard, everyone who has had a bad experience has had one when they fly them to Mexico or the Caribbean
March 29, 20232 yr 58 minutes ago, YABO713 said: I don't disagree - but these flights do serve a purpose. My dad flies twice a year to Tampa to visit a friend for a long weekend. He packs a duffle bag and nothing else and swears by the flights. Yeah I know lots of people who do quick weekend getaways and absolutely love value carriers. Also, sometimes couples, wanting to save money will just have one bag and do the value carrier.
March 30, 20232 yr 8 hours ago, ColDayMan said: Ryanair and Vueling blow away Frontier or Spirit. The only Euro-carrier that is darn near Frontier/Spirit is Pegasus but their seats at least are comfortableish. For me, though, Jetstar Japan was the best value/budget carrier I've ever seen. It was better than Delta but at Ryanair prices. Not sure who old you are, but It wasn't that long ago that Ryan air literally had plastic seats and the overhead bins were covered with ads like a subway car. The first time I flew them in the early 2000's, this is what it looked like. I paid £10 for a flight from Belfast to London, then it cost another 200 quid to check a bag! As more European airlines got in the low cost game they had to quickly upgrade their cabins and do away with this nonsense....
March 30, 20232 yr 1 hour ago, Cleburger said: Not sure who old you are, but It wasn't that long ago that Ryan air literally had plastic seats and the overhead bins were covered with ads like a subway car. The first time I flew them in the early 2000's, this is what it looked like. I paid £10 for a flight from Belfast to London, then it cost another 200 quid to check a bag! Oh, I remember those days and I also flew Ryanair in the early 2000's. But more "recently," they have certainly upgraded their planes...unlike Frontier/Spirit. "You don't just walk into a bar and mix it up by calling a girl fat" - buildingcincinnati speaking about new forumers
April 13, 20232 yr Cleveland Hopkins adds second cell-phone lot Cleveland Hopkins has created a second cell-phone lot for people picking up and dropping off passengers at the airport in an attempt to alleviate overcrowding on the roadways near the terminal. The second lot is located behind the closed Sheraton hotel and adjacent to the Orange parking lot, accessible from Inner Drive. The original cell-phone lot, located just east of the airport, is available, too. Airport spokesman John Goersmeyer said the new lot is needed to alleviate overcrowding on the roadways and to prevent cars from spending too much time parked at the terminal when picking up and dropping off travelers. More below: https://www.cleveland.com/travel/2023/04/cleveland-hopkins-adds-second-cell-phone-lot-will-open-temporary-gray-lot-to-alleviate-airport-parking-woes.html "You don't just walk into a bar and mix it up by calling a girl fat" - buildingcincinnati speaking about new forumers
April 13, 20232 yr 1 hour ago, ColDayMan said: Cleveland Hopkins adds second cell-phone lot Cleveland Hopkins has created a second cell-phone lot for people picking up and dropping off passengers at the airport in an attempt to alleviate overcrowding on the roadways near the terminal. The second lot is located behind the closed Sheraton hotel and adjacent to the Orange parking lot, accessible from Inner Drive. The original cell-phone lot, located just east of the airport, is available, too. Airport spokesman John Goersmeyer said the new lot is needed to alleviate overcrowding on the roadways and to prevent cars from spending too much time parked at the terminal when picking up and dropping off travelers. More below: https://www.cleveland.com/travel/2023/04/cleveland-hopkins-adds-second-cell-phone-lot-will-open-temporary-gray-lot-to-alleviate-airport-parking-woes.html Everyone is still going to sit there without any enforcement. I come out sometimes to cars lined up 5 deep and not a cop to be seen.
April 17, 20232 yr MEDIA RELEASE FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE CONTACT: Marie Zickefoose [email protected] Mayor Bibb announces Bryant L. Francis as Director of Port Control New leader will oversee ports, airport system and Cleveland Hopkins 20-year master plan April 17, 2023 — Cleveland — Mayor Justin M. Bibb announced today that Bryant L. Francis will be Cleveland’s new Director of Port Control, following a national search led by industry experts at Korn Ferry. “I am delighted that we are bringing Bryant to Cleveland at this pivotal time for our airport system,” said Mayor Bibb. “He is a leader that we know can hit the ground running and jump start our $2 billion, 20-year master plan to transform Cleveland Hopkins into a world-class airport for our city and the region.” Francis will assume the role from Interim Director Dennis Kramer who has been the acting leader of the airport and ports since Robert Kennedy's departure in July 2022. His first day will be May 24, 2023. “I am grateful for everything Dennis Kramer has done as acting director, not just to stabilize the airport, but to keep moving the ball forward during this transition,” Mayor Bibb added. An airport industry veteran with more than 25 years of experience in aviation management, Francis has worked across operations, air service development, marketing and communications, real estate, infrastructure, and general management of airports. He currently serves as Director of Aviation for the Port of Oakland, where he leads a staff of more than 200 people responsible for the management of Oakland International Airport (OAK). OAK welcomed 10 million passengers last year and has seen tremendous success during his seven-year tenure. Before joining the Port of Oakland, he was the Airport Director in Long Beach, Calif, and Director of Airports in Shreveport, La. He also served in executive capacities at airports in Boise, Detroit, and Palm Springs. He began his career in 1996 at Hartsfield-Jackson Atlanta International Airport. “I was struck by Bryant’s dedication to public service and accountability as well as his natural ability to quickly connect and relate to the people he met with when he spent the day with us in Cleveland,” said Cleveland Chief Operating Officer Bonnie Teeuwen. “He knows this business inside out and is also someone who highly values culture and collaboration—a perfect fit for this role.” Francis is also well-versed in best practices and issues facing airports nationally and worldwide, serving on both the Airports Council International - North America Board of Directors and its U.S. Policy Council as well as the American Association of Airport Executives Policy Review Committee. He holds a Bachelor of Science degree in Aviation Management from Embry-Riddle Aeronautical University. “I am thrilled to be selected to lead the team in Cleveland and I look forward to getting started on this new chapter of my career,” Francis said. “This is the jumping off point of a real transformation at Cleveland Hopkins and I am excited to lend my experience to shaping and stewarding such a landmark project.” ### "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
April 19, 20232 yr Looking at the master plan's regional connector proposal, I would add ramps to and from Snow Road allowing westbound traffic on Snow headed for Hopkins to get on the connector and eastbound traffic from Hopkins to get onto Snow. Right now, it looks like you have to use I-71, which would require circuitous routings. Regarding parking and ground side capacity issues, the reason I often see in reporting is that the airport has shifted from a hub to an OD orientation. However, why would the hub era airport not have served approximately the same OD travel we have today. There must be more to it, for example, ULCC travel stimulation. I defer to someone with airport expertise. Edited April 19, 20232 yr by urb-a-saurus
April 19, 20232 yr 1 hour ago, urb-a-saurus said: Regarding parking and ground side capacity issues, the reason I often see in reporting is that the airport has shifted from a hub to an OD orientation. However, why would the hub era airport not have served approximately the same OD travel we have today. Good point. I can understand fewer passengers connecting at CLE after de-hubbing, but I would think the number of locals using CLE has remained about the same.
April 21, 20232 yr Shake Shack expected to reopen soon at Cleveland Hopkins airport Several popular restaurants at Cleveland Hopkins International Airport, including Wow Bao, 800 Degrees Woodfired Kitchen and Cantina Taqueria, have recently reopened after being closed for more than three years due to the pandemic. Meanwhile, Shake Shack, the burger and milkshake eatery in the airport’s main terminal food court, should reopen in late May or early June, said Tina LaForte, vice president of Fraport Cleveland, which manages concessions at the airport. The four restaurants, which opened in 2019 and early 2020, have been closed since March 2020, when the coronavirus pandemic brought travel in Cleveland and across the globe to a near standstill. More below: https://www.cleveland.com/travel/2023/04/shake-shack-shut-down-during-pandemic-at-cleveland-hopkins-airport-expected-to-reopen-soon.html "You don't just walk into a bar and mix it up by calling a girl fat" - buildingcincinnati speaking about new forumers
April 24, 20232 yr On 3/29/2023 at 2:24 PM, TBideon said: You guys are being very generous. Frontier and Spirit are, in my experience, absolutely nightmares. The lack of leg room and quality of seat materials are abysmal, embarassing. At least Southwest gives you coffee. Most of the time, we only fly Southwest for domestic travel. Southwest does give you a relatively humane amount of legroom, reclining seats, two free checked bags, and junk food snacks. But it's still a bus compared to the way the airlines were 40 years ago. Americans are willing to endure a lot of indignities on airlines in order to save a few bucks. It doesn't seem worth it to me, but it's worth it to a lot of people, I guess. After a recent experience on United, I won't fly them either unless I absolutely have to. I ended up on a UA flight last month (not my choice, but that's how I was routed after a delayed flight on another airline caused me to miss a connection), my knees were jammed into the seat in front of me. I couldn't get comfortable at all on the entire flight from Newark to Cleveland. Edited April 24, 20232 yr by gildone
May 1, 20232 yr 5 hours ago, LibertyBlvd said: I'm still not sure how that new runway would have worked. It seems like it would have intersected the other existing runways, so I don't know how it would have allowed simulation operations. And as I said previously, it looks like the new runway would have been shorter than the other runways. If this conversation is veering off topic, maybe it should move to CLE thread. 11 hours ago, urb-a-saurus said: The reason for the "IX' runway was that it had enough separation from the parallel main runway such that you could have simultaneous operations. The spacing between the two existing NE-SW runways is insufficient for that. I'm also curious how this would work from a layout perspective. If it takes a weird angle I can maybe see how it would work. Does anyone have more information on this? Maybe a previous proposal? What I got out of the quoted conversation, is that if CLE removed the IX center they could theoretically build a new cross runway that would be the same length as the cross runway on the northern end. (Apparently, this was seriously discussed at some point). This new runway could be built in such a way as to allow simultaneous operations. My question, which I'm hoping one of our aviation gurus ( @Cleburger) can answer is what capabilities/functions would this new runway lack that Burke Lakefront Airport has? Does simultaneous truly mean simultaneous in this instance? Could some of Burke's function be transferred to CLE (particularly the stuff that couldn't easily go to one of the country airports) without affecting CLE operations? Basically in what ways is this more complicated than an IX Center for Burke trade?
May 1, 20232 yr I believe the "IX" runway was to be parallel with the existing NE-SW runways. They were also going to clear homes between what is now Aerospace Parkway and Sheldon Rd. I wonder if there are old articles on this plan.
May 1, 20232 yr 13 hours ago, Ethan said: My question, which I'm hoping one of our aviation gurus ( @Cleburger) can answer is what capabilities/functions would this new runway lack that Burke Lakefront Airport has? Does simultaneous truly mean simultaneous in this instance? Could some of Burke's function be transferred to CLE (particularly the stuff that couldn't easily go to one of the country airports) without affecting CLE operations? Basically in what ways is this more complicated than an IX Center for Burke trade? At the time of the planned expansion, Hopkins was still a mini hub for Continental. The new runway would have allowed for simultaneous operations in IFR conditions (instrument flight rules--low visibility). Could Burke's functions be transferred to CLE? If by "functions" you mean take off and landings, sure. There is more than enough capacity at Hopkins in it's current state. But in reality, Burke serves a different purpose. There are multiple flight schools operating there, as well as the Clinic's air ambulance operations (both fixed and rotary wing). University Hospitals helicopter is also there, along with multiple for news media the Cleveland Police. None of these operations would would want be based at a major commercial aviation airport where taxi wait times and distances to the central business district would be impacted.
May 1, 20232 yr 11 hours ago, urb-a-saurus said: I believe the "IX" runway was to be parallel with the existing NE-SW runways. They were also going to clear homes between what is now Aerospace Parkway and Sheldon Rd. I wonder if there are old articles on this plan. I was searching the internet for a diagram showing the configuration of the proposed new runway at CLE, but I can'f find anything.
May 1, 20232 yr 16 minutes ago, LibertyBlvd said: I was searching the internet for a diagram showing the configuration of the proposed new runway at CLE, but I can'f find anything. I can't find anything either. IIRC the runway would have taken out Atlantic Aviation, who would have been relocated elsewhere on the airfield (likely where the IX center stands now). Here's my guess at what that would have looked like:
May 1, 20232 yr 15 minutes ago, LibertyBlvd said: Thanks. Was that going to be the length? It seems rather short. From what I remember it was going to be close to the 10,000(ish) of the existing runways.
May 2, 20232 yr I used to have some of the long range plans for Hopkins from my Sun Newspapers' days. But I can't seem to find them. I'll keep looking. Hopkins can accommodate 747s including Air Force One and the occasional Middle East royal in town for medical care at the Cleveland Clinic... "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
May 2, 20232 yr And I believe some 747s are occasionally diverted here due to weather. Maybe that Middle East royal will gift the city $2B for CLE expansion.
May 2, 20232 yr A lightly-loaded 747 like a private Saudi royal aircraft can be received or take off from CLE. Same with diverted aircraft--they arrive low on fuel and just take on enough to make it to Chicago, etc. A fully loaded long-haul commercial variant might need extra runway for safety factors, especially on a hot day.
May 2, 20232 yr 4 minutes ago, dski44 said: Can Hopkins accommodate wide-bodied 767-787's? I assume you mean a fully-loaded international destination? In theory, yes. But airline safety regs may dictate they want the extra runway length. I haven't seen @B767PILOTon here in a while, who may be better suited to answer this question fully.
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