25 minutes ago, Gabriel said:

New routes from Frontier to be officially announced tomorrow:

 

CLE-Houston: 4x weekly eff 05/17
CLE-New Orleans: 4x weekly eff 05/22
CLE-Charleston: 4x weekly eff 05/17
CLE-Jaxonville: 4x weekly eff 05/22
CLE-Salt Lake City: 3x weekly eff 05/16
CLE-Austin: 3x weekly eff 05/16
CLE-Savannah: 3x weekly eff 05/16
CLE-Pensacola: 3x weekly eff 05/21

that’s quite a haul.  I’m seeing a ton of new service.  Any idea if it’s Hobby or IAH?

16 minutes ago, BelievelandD1 said:

that’s quite a haul.  I’m seeing a ton of new service.  Any idea if it’s Hobby or IAH?

 

IAH

I'm flying Frontier for the first time on Wednesday. boy people weren't kidding about the extra fees adding up! I actually measured my personal bag to make sure it fits the dimensions after hearing they compensate the gate agents for every over-sized bag they catch lol. very happy with their expansions regardless.

49 minutes ago, Jax said:

I'm flying Frontier for the first time on Wednesday. boy people weren't kidding about the extra fees adding up! I actually measured my personal bag to make sure it fits the dimensions after hearing they compensate the gate agents for every over-sized bag they catch lol. very happy with their expansions regardless.

 

It takes a few times to figure out the game within the game.  if you can figure out the game it can be a very inexpensive flying experience.  When you introduce young kids and you have to pre buy your seats, and you need more items checked and carryons, it starts to add up and you may as well just fly American.

All of these destinations besides Houston appear to be new for Cleveland (I was surprised Delta doesn't have a CLE-SLC route).  As frustrating as Frontier can be, I'll generally choose them if I can avoid a layover, especially when flying with kids.

Edited February 14, 20241 yr by acd

Delta had CLE-SLC a while back, but it was discontinued during Covid. I was considering it on a trip to St. George just before Covid hit, but it was an early departure, so I instead went on United via Denver  I was hoping Delta might restart it.

 

Edited February 14, 20241 yr by LibertyBlvd

14 hours ago, Gabriel said:

New routes from Frontier to be officially announced tomorrow:

 

CLE-Houston: 4x weekly eff 05/17
CLE-New Orleans: 4x weekly eff 05/22
CLE-Charleston: 4x weekly eff 05/17
CLE-Jaxonville: 4x weekly eff 05/22
CLE-Salt Lake City: 3x weekly eff 05/16
CLE-Austin: 3x weekly eff 05/16
CLE-Savannah: 3x weekly eff 05/16
CLE-Pensacola: 3x weekly eff 05/21

 

Looks like Myrtle Beach and Baltimore too

 

https://www.cleveland.com/travel/2024/02/frontier-airlines-adds-nonstop-flights-to-10-new-destinations-from-cleveland-hopkins.html

https://news.flyfrontier.com/frontier-airlines-announces-nonstop-service-from-cleveland-hopkins-international-airport-to-10-additional-destinations-summer-daily-departures-to-increase-38-versus-a-year-ago/

 

The official press release.

Edited February 14, 20241 yr by brownsfan1226

I have to imagine Frontier will be trafficking passengers through CLE to fill some of these flights

Happy to have these flights, but is it too much to ask to have them available in the winter instead??

On 2/14/2024 at 9:21 AM, LibertyBlvd said:

Delta had CLE-SLC a while back, but it was discontinued during Covid. I was considering it on a trip to St. George just before Covid hit, but it was an early departure, so I instead went on United via Denver  I was hoping Delta might restart it.

 

 

They might now, thanks to Frontier. 

Where's the Kansas City flight!? Still a connection between MCI and CLE for me or a long ass drive. 😡

Forgot to post

 

 

Cleveland getting 10 new nonstops from Frontier Airlines
By Ken Prendergast / February 15, 2024

 

New nonstop air service from Cleveland Hopkins International Airport (CLE) will be offered by Frontier Airlines to 10 additional destinations starting this May. Those destinations include New Orleans, Jacksonville, Houston, Myrtle Beach, Austin, Charleston, Savannah, Salt Lake City, Pensacola and Baltimore.

 

MORE:

https://neo-trans.blog/2024/02/15/cleveland-getting-10-new-nonstops-from-frontier-airlines/

Nice. I just wish Frontier did more daily flights instead of 3x or 4x.

After seeing the fantastic looking terminal renderings for PIT and CMH (and other new ones all the way back to IND in 2008), I hope that Hopkins can reach that level of design.
 

Looking forward to seeing the designs🤞🏼

4 hours ago, Enginerd said:

After seeing the fantastic looking terminal renderings for PIT and CMH (and other new ones all the way back to IND in 2008), I hope that Hopkins can reach that level of design.
 

Looking forward to seeing the designs🤞🏼

Apparently, Kansas City just opened their new terminal last year.  I'm sure the renovated CLE will look nicer, but it will likely not be on par with other peer cities that have been able to build new facilities. One thing that worries me is the project will be done in phases with each phase commencing only when CLE reaches certain passenger levels.   It could take 20+ years to complete all phases.

 

Edited February 21, 20241 yr by LibertyBlvd

I hope that the new concourses have 20+ ft ceilings that allow natural light to shine though. I was in Miami and Charlotte last week and the high ceilings really helped from feeling confined like I do in CLE. I really like concourse D in Miami.

Edited February 21, 20241 yr by dski44

Grand Rapids MI also just opened a new expansion on their A terminal that is really gorgeous. It seems they got this project done in record time, while we are still talking about the Master Plan for CLE 😆

With Frontier having a crew base in Cleveland now, I would think that they would want to promote the city well. I'm in Phoenix flying home and this is the picture that they use for Cleveland. How old is this??? We should send them a bunch of great pictures of our city that the could use instead. 

On 2/21/2024 at 2:44 PM, mrclifton88 said:

Grand Rapids MI also just opened a new expansion on their A terminal that is really gorgeous. It seems they got this project done in record time, while we are still talking about the Master Plan for CLE 😆

From people I know there and visits, it is clear that mid-sized Grand Rapids is a city with pride that thinks it is much bigger and that strives to be taken seriously and will do anything to project a bigger image. Cleveland is a territorial city that thinks it's small, 300K and declining - not a 3MM+ region - that will value what councilmen can get for its neighborhoods over the region and botch or bargain-engineer the CLE expansion since who cares about an airport and the image it projects?...  just watch. 

Edited February 25, 20241 yr by eyehrtfood

Surpassed Jan 2019 numbers.......

 

https://www.clevelandairport.com/cle-continues-build-last-year’s-momentum

Aer Lingus' 2023 transatlantic performance means that CLE-DUB most likely met traffic expectations, as a minimum, and probably exceeded them. In other words, they didn't get much if any of the guaranteed revenue subsidy.

 

https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2024/0229/1435083-aer-lingus-annual-results/

Airlines agree to pay for first phase of Cleveland Hopkins terminal rebuild

Published: Feb. 29, 2024, 11:20 a.m.

 

CLEVELAND, Ohio – Cleveland Hopkins International Airport has reached an agreement with its airlines to fund the initial phase of a massive terminal redevelopment project, set to begin in 2025.

 

https://www.cleveland.com/news/2024/02/airlines-agree-to-pay-for-first-phase-of-cleveland-hopkins-terminal-rebuild.html

Here is another article for non-subscribers:

 

https://www.clevelandairport.com/momentum-building-terminal-modernization-development-program

Does anybody know when the second phase could possibly start, which would include construction work?

On 2/21/2024 at 2:44 PM, mrclifton88 said:

Grand Rapids MI also just opened a new expansion on their A terminal that is really gorgeous. It seems they got this project done in record time, while we are still talking about the Master Plan for CLE 😆

 

Not related to Hopkins, but those lights coincide with all the lighthouses on the Great Lakes when viewed from the right angle...pretty sure that's what a fellow GIS nerd told me!!

 

Edit: Ope, it's major cities/population centers, either way really cool. Honestly if it were lighthouses there'd be a LOT more lights...

 

 

Edited March 1, 20241 yr by GISguy

1 hour ago, dski44 said:

Does anybody know when the second phase could possibly start, which would include construction work?

I think the goal is to complete detailed design this year, and start construction in 2025. What exactly the scope of the work will be (PAL 1.5, 2, other) I’m not sure.
 

Someone correct me if I’m wrong.

 

Edit: The above was based on previous interviews with the Airport Director. I just read the news release and honestly I have more questions than answers now…

Edited February 29, 20241 yr by Enginerd

52 minutes ago, Enginerd said:

I think the goal is to complete detailed design this year, and start construction in 2025. What exactly the scope of the work will be (PAL 1.5, 2, other) I’m not sure.
 

Someone correct me if I’m wrong.

 

Edit: The above was based on previous interviews with the Airport Director. I just read the news release and honestly I have more questions than answers now…

So, $175 million to do additional preliminary and planning work for "if and when" 11 million passengers are reached????????? 

1 hour ago, dski44 said:

So, $175 million to do additional preliminary and planning work for "if and when" 11 million passengers are reached????????? 

 

Clearly they need to do a better job of communicating. I just read a bunch of Crains stories and in 2021, they said the full master plan would cost $2B. However, last year they said that Phase 1 would cost $800-900M and they are working under the assumption that trips will increase to 11M. Maybe someone else can clarify but it sounds like they got $175M of that from the airlines they've been negotiating with to start, and one would assume they hope to get more/the rest as they hit new milestones. But maybe I'm wrong?

^ I believe the cost for the first phase has risen to around $1B and the cost for all phases is now around $3B.  So I don't know what the $175M will cover, hopefully more than just planning, studying and analyzing.  I guess we'll have to wait for Jarboe to do an article so we can get some clarity.

I work in the highway industry, and planning and design for mega-projects is in the single millions. So I can’t possibly imagine that’s all $175 million will get.

 

EDIT: Trying not to get too off topic here…but I looked into Brent Spence for a comparison (at least dollar wise) and engineering costs are estimated at over $400 million 💀 The upcoming I-90 reconstruction design costs are about $12 million.

Edited March 1, 20241 yr by Enginerd

LOL, it gets half an Opportunity Corridor.  For comparison wasn't that 2016 terminal refresh with the new entrance doors about $50M?  

 

Regarding the ticket area expansions, it is surprising, and sad, how much counter vacancy there currently is.

I’m going to stop opining about costs because honestly, I don’t know lol. But while going down this rabbit hole, I found these fantastic reports from PMG during Kansas City’s build. If we get something like this I’ll be very pleased.

 

https://www.buildkci.com/pmg-executive-reports/

According to a report I read, the $175M includes demolition of the old Sheraton hotel.

I wonder if this was a compromise with the Airlines to get a partial committment to move forward, but have additinal strings attached before committing to the larger overhaul. 

3 hours ago, LibertyBlvd said:

According to a report I read, the $175M includes demolition of the old Sheraton hotel.

i wouldve demolished that for free if they wouldve just asked.  Its one of the most embarassing structures in our city

Q2, '24 capacity is looking good. Fifth place in growth isn't bad.

 

On 3/1/2024 at 12:19 PM, BelievelandD1 said:

i wouldve demolished that for free if they wouldve just asked.  Its one of the most embarassing structures in our city

I disagree.   A hotel on airport property is something cities of our size don't normally enjoy.   It's unlikely we will ever have another. 

FFT Pilots site says  200 out of 220 Frontier pilots and copilots have been assigned to the new CLE base so far.  Twenty to go.  OK, they are commuters for the moment but eventually most of them will move into town.  It's a positive.

Thae way I read one article about the expansion is that the airlines' $175m share is going to come from restructuring landing fees is that correct?

I returned a car at the CLE consolidated facility this afternoon and wow is it getting tired.  Restrooms were a mess, shuttle buses were dirty and falling apart, the roadway entering and exiting was crumbling.    Worse yet, the dropoff point at the airport is made of orange barrels and yellow plastic chain.  🫣

 

This new airport plan can't come soon enough.  I assume that's one of the reasons the City of Cleveland is letting the facility die a slow death... 

Very sad. Other cities have been building new airport facilities in recent years, but here it's studying, planning, analyzing, ...

3 hours ago, LibertyBlvd said:

Very sad. Other cities have been building new airport facilities in recent years, but here it's studying, planning, analyzing, ...

Yes, and all of those facilities in other cities took years of studying, planning and analyzing as well. 

17 minutes ago, jeremyck01 said:

Yes, and all of those facilities in other cities took years of studying, planning and analyzing as well. 

Post-Covid I’m just hoping these planning experts design a layout so we aren’t packed like confused and chaotic sardines waiting to board. 

11 hours ago, jeremyck01 said:

Yes, and all of those facilities in other cities took years of studying, planning and analyzing as well. 

Yes, of course I realize that.  But they got the ball rolling much sooner.  

A problem that I haven't seen addressed very well is the cramped nature of the security -- there just isn't very much room between the ticket counters and the terminal hallways to squeeze the TSA stations in between.  This means regular long backups to get through security, with no room to expand (which is probably good for CLEAR's business).

 

One option might be to move all the parking to the IX center or Snow Road with a tram or red line extension providing service to the terminal.  That could allow for front of the terminal to expand outward, moving the drop-off and pick-up lanes away from the current building and allowing for a better design that gives a better first-impression of the airport. 

 

 Another option might be to build a new structure inside the drop-off loop -- where the current garage is -- and move the ticketing, security, and baggage intake there with a secure passenger passageway from security under/over the roadway and into the terminal.  That would allow the drop-off lane to also be a pick-up lane for passengers exiting without luggage.

 

I hope all options are on the table as part of these studies.  Trying to shoehorn parking into the limited amount of space immediately adjacent the terminal just doesn't seem to be the best use of limited real estate.

On 2/25/2024 at 12:36 PM, eyehrtfood said:

From people I know there and visits, it is clear that mid-sized Grand Rapids is a city with pride that thinks it is much bigger and that strives to be taken seriously and will do anything to project a bigger image. Cleveland is a territorial city that thinks it's small, 300K and declining - not a 3MM+ region - that will value what councilmen can get for its neighborhoods over the region and botch or bargain-engineer the CLE expansion since who cares about an airport and the image it projects?...  just watch. 

My company is headquartered there and I am in GR a LOT. This is spot on. GR citizens have incredible GR pride and want to act like they are a much bigger city... it reminds me a bit of the mentality that you find in Columbus.  It's very disappointing that so often in Cleveland there is the opposite. Don't want to derail this thread, but it is relevant even to this airport project. The woe is me attitude is getting better, but still very much alive and does nothing but hold this region back. 

2 hours ago, mrclifton88 said:

My company is headquartered there and I am in GR a LOT. This is spot on. GR citizens have incredible GR pride and want to act like they are a much bigger city... it reminds me a bit of the mentality that you find in Columbus.  It's very disappointing that so often in Cleveland there is the opposite. Don't want to derail this thread, but it is relevant even to this airport project. The woe is me attitude is getting better, but still very much alive and does nothing but hold this region back. 

 

As a lifelong Columbus resident, I tend to experience the exact opposite in terms of Columbus and Cleveland native's sentiment toward their own city, lol. I'm sure there's a good mix of both within each city and we tend to simply pick up on one over the other for whatever reason.

I was gonna say...I wish Columbus had Cleveland's "big city attitude" in regards to construction.

3 hours ago, Foraker said:

One option might be to move all the parking to the IX center or Snow Road with a tram or red line extension providing service to the terminal.  That could allow for front of the terminal to expand outward, moving the drop-off and pick-up lanes away from the current building and allowing for a better design that gives a better first-impression of the airport.  

The first phase is supposed to expand the terminal to the south. I believe the plan is to eventually move the front of the terminal outward, but that will be in one of the later phases.