May 7, 201015 yr Virgin Atlantic already has some strange codeshare partnership with Continental. If you look on Virgin's website' date=' CLE is listed as an option served by "them"[/quote'] The arrangement was done to give CO access to the coveted Heathrow, back when only two US and two UK carriers could serve the US-UK market into Heathrow. I think getting Virgin' date=' JetBlue and Frontier in here would do wonders and open up the city to more destinations.[/quote'] Any new US LCC airline would likely fly from CLE to where they already have ops/maintenance/staff, etc. Therefore if B6 were to enter CLE, it'd likely be to MCO or JFK, places where we already have service. Frontier to Den's thing... VirginAmerica to LAX/SFO/JFK, etc... A new FOREIGN treelike BA, LH, AF, KLM articled give us the new destination... I'm saying entice those carriers to come here and BUILD a hub up. Not just be a route to a hub. NOT ONE of those carries has a inland hub. In regard to international carriers, without having access to revenue management information, BA (one world), AF or KLM (skyteam) are not going to come to Cleveland as they are would have little or no departing traffic, rendering an international flight unprofitable. Those airlines already have/had flights at Newark, JFK, DTW, ORD, IAD and CVG. I personally think, Lufthansa and LOT are our only hope for a new international carrier to enter our market. The carrier would have to be star alliance to tap into the market of loyal Frequent Flyer's. My thought is, our only hope to gain year round, international flights is if the DOJ tell UA/CO that they have a monoploy on routes out of EWR, JFK, IAD & LAX and they are damaging competition, in order to make the merger a "go" they must apply to have the departing airport of the routes moved to CLE so they can keep the slots in foreign airports. However, I bet they'll have to give up slots period. LCC's are not going to come here unless CAL goes away. CAL is already priced cheaply from CLE due to a faily large presence of SWA. The only thing that say jetBlue could match is to JFK and without the frequency. Plus, a couple of LCC's already serve CAK which is close enough to be metro Cleveland. So the catchment area is already served by 3 LCC's and without the price advantage they enjoy elsewhere. SWA has a large presence? Even if they're 10% of CLE's traffic they're not serving many destinations. What do they have 6 or 7? Considering that CLE is a hub (mini or otherwise) for a large laegacy carrier, the SWA presence is relatively large. I think they have between 20-30 flights a day. CAL is aprox 175 (I think). Its enough of a presence to take-away some of CAL's pricing power. Don't forget, CLE's O&D is aprox 8MM pax/year. CAL takes in abour 5MM of those. SWA aprox 1.35MM I know that other LCC have expressed "interest" in CLE. Many foreign carrier have also expressed "interest". But as I've written before, the economics at CAK make that a more attractive place from which to operate. CAL and SWA co-exist but another entrant would probably be clobbered by CALs' ability to match a low fare on the one or two segments that they would fly in tandem (think jetBlue to JFK or MCO). CAK has no competing route overlaps. Airtran to BOS and LGA have no non-stop competition. Frontier to DEN has no competition - and so on. Plus, CAK is close enough and in the same catchment area as CLE to be a viable alternative. Airline economics isn't about filling planes, its about yield. CLE is expensive relative to CAK (gate fees, landing fees, taxes, etc) and when you are a bottom feeder in airline biz that can make a huge difference on ticket yield. Plus LCC don't have the luxury of the "premium" fare. Granted their fares can be up there, but they don't usually lure the last minute biz flier at the premium fare.
May 7, 201015 yr Don't forget that the main reason jetBlue exitst was to provide Upstate New York with affordable fares after the desertion/elimination of the Empire/Piedmont/USAir hub at SYR. back in the day ROC, SYR and BUF had DC-10/707 service on AA. ProplExpress served many Upstate locales with 737/727's. I think that jetBlue received alot of State money to start-up and eventually branched out. I totally forgot about that and now they have Lufthansa financial backing. I think Lufthansa owns ~20% of JetBlue now. Yes, jetBlue feeds LH at JFK just like Allegheny did PanAm back in th '70s. For a bit of nostalgia, here are some of the Upstate NY cities that once had mainline jet service: Niagara Falls, BUF, ROC, SYR, ALB, Plattsburg, Glens Falls, Elmira-Corning and Ithaca.... and almost forgot Utica-Rome Ah, thanks for the upstate NY memory. I remember flying an AA DC10 from Rochester NY to CLE when I was in college. I think it continued on to LAX. CLE used to have N/S service to LAX both on UA and on AA back in the CAB days. Oh and don't forget Mohawk, my one and only emergency landing.
May 9, 201015 yr Per OAG, CO schedule changes effective October are below. Note: This is NOT the drawing down of CLE or anything else--reductions below are only typical seasonal (post-summer) adjustments (and are done in CO's IAH and EWR markets as well). Read: current frequencies per day to future frequencies per day, and the effective date if not October: CLE-ATL 5>4 CLE-BOS 5>4 CLE-GSP 2>1 CLE-JAX 0>1 CLE-MHT 4>3 CLE-MIA 0>1 OCT CLE-NAS 1/WK>0 CLE-PHX 2>3 DEC- CLE-RSW 2>1 NOV CLE-SAN 0>1 DEC- CLE-TPA 2>1 OCT-NOV CLE-TYS 2>1 Not sure how long San Diego will last--it usually appears for a few months or less each year. No route/schedule changes from any of the other carriers at CLE.
May 10, 201015 yr For those of you who read my posts in connection with aviation/airlines, you are no doubt aware of my preaching about O&D, yield and other related matters. Here is some interesting data regarding these topics for 2009. CVG was the FASTES growing O&D airport from Q4 2008 to Q4 2009. Its up an astounding 32%. From 818,005 PAX to 1,086,000 pax (these are quarterly totals not annual). The reason for the growth is the retrenchment of DAL and therefore the addition of competition and lowering of fares. Fares declined an equally astounding 24%. In conjunction with CVG, O&D at DAY declined 20% with a 4% decline in fares. It looks like the CVG folks who used to drive to DAY for lower fares are abandoning DAY since CVG fares are coming down. CMH is virtually unchanged at 1,480,000 vs 1,487,000 despite a 6% reduction in average fare. CLE grew by 1.2% from 1,635,000 to 1,653,000 and fares are down 5.4%. CAK (which is close enough to be the same catchment area - 37 miles, is down 1.5% from 355,000 to 349,800. Fares are constant. So CLE is basically a 2,000,000 Q4. The increase in CLE is offset by decline at CAK. NOW.... Here are some other stations Q4 2009 PIT: 1,856,000 RDU: 2,092,000 CLT: 2,340,000] EWR; 4,251,000 ATL: 6,000,000 (down 5%) DTW: 3,400,000 (down 2.5% - less than ATL!) Now for YIELD adjusted to 1,000 mile length of haul (LOH CLE: 16.82 cents (small legacy hub) CVG: 18.55 cents ( you see why DAL had a hub there will small O&D) CLT: 17.47 cents (large legacy hub) CAK: 13.25 cents (LCC airport) CMH: 14.65 cents (this is why CMH lagged as a hub - low yield) DAY: 14.44 cents (essentially like CMH despite being a much smaller market) RDU: 14.00 cents (low yield) EWR: 16.44 cents (lower than CLE) ORD: 16.36 cents (lower than CLE) IAD: 16.71 cents (lower than CLE) This is just a sample. So you see, yields at CLE are BETTER than MOST of the competing cities/hubs. Also keep in mind that you see smaller metros with larger O&D (CLT/RDU) This is because their catchment area is mega huge. People drive to CLT and RDU from as much as 100 or so miles away to get non-stop and cheaper fares. The smaller cities of NC have VERY high farea and you have to connect anyway.
May 11, 201015 yr Hey, Charlotte is getting nonstop service to Rome according to the USAIR timetable. Not so many large cities nearby to compete with. :cry:
May 11, 201015 yr Hey, Charlotte is getting nonstop service to Rome according to the USAIR timetable. Not so many large cities nearby to compete with. :'( but USAir to Charlotte is Delta to CVG. the connecting price is a bitch and their linked to volatile market. if BofA goes under, so does USAir.
May 11, 201015 yr CVG: 18.55 cents ( you see why DAL had a hub there will small O&D) Honestly don't you think that's why we goto other airports because the prices are too high?
May 11, 201015 yr An affordable CVG will continue to recapture lost passengers - committed LCC flyers still have to drive to fly.
May 11, 201015 yr Oh, i forgot to include MEM: O&D is DOWN a significant 4% from 881,014 to 848,236 while fares remain constant. But the yield is a whopping 20.56 cents. Low O&D but there's money to be made. One other comment to make is that yields are good at CLE despite the fact that SWA has a large enough pressence to be reckoned with. Even though SWA is an LCC, its fares are not that low. And note that the yields at CAK reflect that it is an LCC airport.
May 11, 201015 yr Hey, Charlotte is getting nonstop service to Rome according to the USAIR timetable. Not so many large cities nearby to compete with. :'( but USAir to Charlotte is Delta to CVG. the connecting price is a bitch and their linked to volatile market. if BofA goes under, so does USAir. CLT is a mega overflow hub. The route will not be dependent on CLT O&D alone.
May 11, 201015 yr So is the hub status finished as it seemed to be saying in the paper yesterday? NOTHING HAS BEEN ANOUNCED! THE MERGER HAS NOT BEEN APPROVED!
May 11, 201015 yr ^ Yes, but why does the paper make it look like, or just seem to make it feel like the hub loss is inevitable?
May 11, 201015 yr So is the hub status finished as it seemed to be saying in the paper yesterday? NOTHING HAS BEEN ANOUNCED! THE MERGER HAS NOT BEEN APPROVED! LOL... The sky is falling.... the sky is falling... the CAL hub at CLE is doomed... THIS IS ALL PURE CONJECTURE! Comparing the CLE hub to other closed/downsized hubs is apples to oranges. Even comparing the other hubs to one another is murky. IF CLE were that bad, that unprofitable, that unnecessary, CAL would have already closed CLE down. Alot of the statements being thrown around by "experts" and un-named sources is meaningless at this point. The amiguity of CAL toward the future of CLE is more than likely a negotiating ploy. The paper comparing STL and CLE is pointless. STL was eventually TWA's ONLY HUB. One merged into AA, STL's overflow capacity became redundant to ORD and more importantly DFW. DFW has plenty of room to absorb capacity. One of the few aiports designed and built in the latter third of the 20th century with the 21st and impending deregulation taken into account.
May 11, 201015 yr What, our paper? Leaning towards the negative? I just don't believe it! *false shock*
May 11, 201015 yr What, our paper? Leaning towards the negative? I just don't believe it! *false shock* The paper does what papers do everwhere: Stirs the pot. It does make points that can be broadly applied. BUT as I write in past posts, CLE is not what most of the other hubds were and are. We're O&D with enough capacity to allow for connecting banks. Our facilities, while underutilized cannot handle 400-500-600 flights a day. What would happen if there were delays due to weather. Where would you put people?
May 11, 201015 yr ^ Yes.. I know.. It was a dumb question on my part. Sorry.. I know how they are, but they just print it like it is Gospel!
May 11, 201015 yr So is the hub status finished as it seemed to be saying in the paper yesterday? NOTHING HAS BEEN ANOUNCED! THE MERGER HAS NOT BEEN APPROVED! LOL... The sky is falling.... the sky is falling... the CAL hub at CLE is doomed... THIS IS ALL PURE CONJECTURE! Comparing the CLE hub to other closed/downsized hubs is apples to oranges. Even comparing the other hubs to one another is murky. IF CLE were that bad, that unprofitable, that unnecessary, CAL would have already closed CLE down. Alot of the statements being thrown around by "experts" and un-named sources is meaningless at this point. The amiguity of CAL toward the future of CLE is more than likely a negotiating ploy. The paper comparing STL and CLE is pointless. STL was eventually TWA's ONLY HUB. One merged into AA, STL's overflow capacity became redundant to ORD and more importantly DFW. DFW has plenty of room to absorb capacity. One of the few aiports designed and built in the latter third of the 20th century with the 21st and impending deregulation taken into account. I would agree DFW has room to grow, but I think it's worth mentioning that several domestic airlines pulled out (delta) and cut back. Some of the non American Terminals are eerily quiet. I would agree it's built for growth. Sad considering Hopkins is only operating at 60-65% of it's total capacity!
May 18, 201015 yr the national media is merciless...how do they gotta do a Lebron James reference when talking about the situation: http://www.businessweek.com/news/2010-05-18/first-lebron-now-this-cleveland-air-hub-threatened-by-merger.html
May 18, 201015 yr the national media is merciless...how do they gotta they in a Lebron James reference when talking about the situation: http://www.businessweek.com/news/2010-05-18/first-lebron-now-this-cleveland-air-hub-threatened-by-merger.html Yes, the Lebron saga has given the NY, Chicago, & LA media the green light to torch Cleveland (and Ohio) in any way possible. My brother living in Denver said that a local radio station was talking about the Rock hall moving to NYC, because things are sooo bad in Cleveland (and Ohio). Meanwhile, Denver, with it's 300,000 illegals (and growing by the day as they flee Arizona), apparently remains an oasis in the plains. This scenario is playing out all over the country, sickening..
May 18, 201015 yr the national media is merciless...how do they gotta they in a Lebron James reference when talking about the situation: http://www.businessweek.com/news/2010-05-18/first-lebron-now-this-cleveland-air-hub-threatened-by-merger.html Last time I checked Lebron hadn't gone anywhere. I guess it's time we all pack up and head to Los Angeles, Denver, New York, Boston, D.C., Miami, Atlanta, Charlotte, Chicago, Dallas, San Francisco, San Diego, and Seattle because Cleveland and most of the Midwest is clearly in shambles and there's nothing we can do to save it. :roll: That entire article is speculation and opinion. Even though Continental has confirmed it's commitment to Cleveland they just know that CLE will be the first to lose flights because... well... it's Cleveland! What a joke. And to say CLE will go the way of CVG is just ignorant based on the stats provided in this thread by people in the know like MD88PILOT.
May 18, 201015 yr the national media is merciless...how do they gotta they in a Lebron James reference when talking about the situation: http://www.businessweek.com/news/2010-05-18/first-lebron-now-this-cleveland-air-hub-threatened-by-merger.html Last time I checked Lebron hadn't gone anywhere. I guess it's time we all pack up and head to Los Angeles, Denver, New York, Boston, D.C., Miami, Atlanta, Charlotte, Chicago, Dallas, San Francisco, San Diego, and Seattle because Cleveland and most of the Midwest is clearly in shambles and there's nothing we can do to save it. :roll: That entire article is speculation and opinion. Even though Continental has confirmed it's commitment to Cleveland they just know that CLE will be the first to lose flights because... well... it's Cleveland! What a joke. And to say CLE will go the way of CVG is just ignorant based on the stats provided in this thread by people in the know like MD88PILOT. I'm NOT privy to any part of CAL or UAL or anyone who works for them. The opinions that I write in this thread are based upon my knowledge of economics/yield management as those topics generically relate to airlines. That said, I agree that most of the articles written about the demise of CLE in the new UAL system are based on a comon belief and little research amoung journalists and opinion makers. This present article incorporating the James fiasco is plainly stupid, though its worth mentioning that the source is Bloomberg. The same company connected to the mayor of NYC of same name.
May 18, 201015 yr In other happier news, Continental Magazine had like a 4-page long spread from Positively Cleveland in the May Issue (http://magazine.continental.com/201005-ss-cleveland). I got all nerdily excited because that's the biggest article I remember ever seeing there about C-Town.
May 18, 201015 yr In other happier news, Continental Magazine had like a 4-page long spread from Positively Cleveland in the May Issue (http://magazine.continental.com/201005-ss-cleveland). I got all nerdily excited because that's the biggest article I remember ever seeing there about C-Town. Actually in the 1990's Cleveland was getting some phenominal press. The PBS show hosted by the economist Adam Smith showcased Cleveland. Magazine articles from across the spectrum trumpeted the re-birth and renaissance. Other cities such Oakland, CA came to ask Clevelands advice as to how to jump-start their own cities. City planners beleived that the city's popluation had stabilized around 505,000. There was the flats, new sports venues, etc, etc... What happend?
May 18, 201015 yr In other happier news, Continental Magazine had like a 4-page long spread from Positively Cleveland in the May Issue (http://magazine.continental.com/201005-ss-cleveland). I got all nerdily excited because that's the biggest article I remember ever seeing there about C-Town. very cool. I question the "stay" and even "eat" sections a little bit though.
May 18, 201015 yr JMO, but I wouldn't be encouraging anyone to stay at the Ritz, though I understand why it's obligatory. They did seem to be extremely random selections in the "eat" and "stay" sections. Not "wrong" or "right," if there is such a thing, just odd.
May 18, 201015 yr In other happier news, Continental Magazine had like a 4-page long spread from Positively Cleveland in the May Issue (http://magazine.continental.com/201005-ss-cleveland). I got all nerdily excited because that's the biggest article I remember ever seeing there about C-Town. Actually in the 1990's Cleveland was getting some phenominal press. The PBS show hosted by the economist Adam Smith showcased Cleveland. Magazine articles from across the spectrum trumpeted the re-birth and renaissance. Other cities such Oakland, CA came to ask Clevelands advice as to how to jump-start their own cities. City planners beleived that the city's popluation had stabilized around 505,000. There was the flats, new sports venues, etc, etc... What happend? Well, in some ways....I feel the novelty wore off and we discovered we need to be more than sports and bars to be a great place. Glad we're finally heading in that direction. I also liked the Continental article. I hope that since we are showcasing our shoreline/Lake Erie, more people will realize the importance of making a good impression with clean beaches and parks--and why leaving trash/litter all over is not in Cleveland's best interest in making a lasting positive impression on anyone. This is where we really need to improve. Walk our shoreline and take a closer look at the rubbish you will find. Sorry, but its just an inconvenient truth, and we can all help make a difference by picking it up, reducing purchases of products that are packed in the kinds of materials that will have a great chance at winding up as litter....and using re-usable containers, bags, etc, instead like we used to when on a pic-nic. Also, If we purchase more responsibly packaged materials, it will force the changes in manufacturers using bad choice materials for packaging. We can actually start at the airport as a matter of fact. I did see some recycling containers there...good start. We can be a champion in this department.
May 18, 201015 yr In other happier news, Continental Magazine had like a 4-page long spread from Positively Cleveland in the May Issue (http://magazine.continental.com/201005-ss-cleveland). I got all nerdily excited because that's the biggest article I remember ever seeing there about C-Town. Actually in the 1990's Cleveland was getting some phenominal press. The PBS show hosted by the economist Adam Smith showcased Cleveland. Magazine articles from across the spectrum trumpeted the re-birth and renaissance. Other cities such Oakland, CA came to ask Clevelands advice as to how to jump-start their own cities. City planners beleived that the city's popluation had stabilized around 505,000. There was the flats, new sports venues, etc, etc... What happend? Jane Campbell, Frank Jackson
May 19, 201015 yr In other happier news, Continental Magazine had like a 4-page long spread from Positively Cleveland in the May Issue (http://magazine.continental.com/201005-ss-cleveland). I got all nerdily excited because that's the biggest article I remember ever seeing there about C-Town. Actually in the 1990's Cleveland was getting some phenominal press. The PBS show hosted by the economist Adam Smith showcased Cleveland. Magazine articles from across the spectrum trumpeted the re-birth and renaissance. Other cities such Oakland, CA came to ask Clevelands advice as to how to jump-start their own cities. City planners beleived that the city's popluation had stabilized around 505,000. There was the flats, new sports venues, etc, etc... What happend? Jane Campbell, Frank Jackson While we're off topic, the end of the Flats in the late 1990's under Mike White's administration was a HUGE mistake. Cleveland's legitimate tourist destination was shut down and sold off to a developer who has yet to deliver over 10 years later.
May 19, 201015 yr The Flats, as it became, in my opinion, was sooner or later destined to be something that would fizzle. It was too much of one thing and no plan. It was getting seedy and a less than savory crowd took it over. The concept of making areas right in the core of the city near the river more dynamic with entertainment, living, and park space greatly increases the place's chance of being more successful to a more dynamic and diverse customer/residential.. stakeholder scene instead of the "use and abuse" crowd that it often attracted leaving the place looking like total Sh** every weekend....kind of scene. Sometimes we just grow up and get tired of having some pubescence hormone raving kid puke on our shoe, or someone on a crotch rocket showing off. However, and I say a BIG however... indeed, the idea for making it all that of what I described has been failed to be delivered in these 10 years.........so yeah, probably should have left it as it was....But hindsight is perfect. I also thought if possible, more historic buildings should have been spared. Now we have a nice 20-plus acre flat of mud collecting litter and trash to gaze upon without so much as even a sign telling us what is to come.. "Coming Soon!"...
May 19, 201015 yr In other happier news, Continental Magazine had like a 4-page long spread from Positively Cleveland in the May Issue (http://magazine.continental.com/201005-ss-cleveland). I got all nerdily excited because that's the biggest article I remember ever seeing there about C-Town. Actually in the 1990's Cleveland was getting some phenominal press. The PBS show hosted by the economist Adam Smith showcased Cleveland. Magazine articles from across the spectrum trumpeted the re-birth and renaissance. Other cities such Oakland, CA came to ask Clevelands advice as to how to jump-start their own cities. City planners beleived that the city's popluation had stabilized around 505,000. There was the flats, new sports venues, etc, etc... What happend? Jane Campbell, Frank Jackson While we're off topic, the end of the Flats in the late 1990's under Mike White's administration was a HUGE mistake. Cleveland's legitimate tourist destination was shut down and sold off to a developer who has yet to deliver over 10 years later. What does this have to do with the airport? Especially since the post is incorrect.
May 19, 201015 yr In other happier news, Continental Magazine had like a 4-page long spread from Positively Cleveland in the May Issue (http://magazine.continental.com/201005-ss-cleveland). I got all nerdily excited because that's the biggest article I remember ever seeing there about C-Town. Actually in the 1990's Cleveland was getting some phenominal press. The PBS show hosted by the economist Adam Smith showcased Cleveland. Magazine articles from across the spectrum trumpeted the re-birth and renaissance. Other cities such Oakland, CA came to ask Clevelands advice as to how to jump-start their own cities. City planners beleived that the city's popluation had stabilized around 505,000. There was the flats, new sports venues, etc, etc... What happend? Jane Campbell, Frank Jackson While we're off topic, the end of the Flats in the late 1990's under Mike White's administration was a HUGE mistake. Cleveland's legitimate tourist destination was shut down and sold off to a developer who has yet to deliver over 10 years later. What does this have to do with the airport? Especially since the post is incorrect. Well my portion is correct
May 19, 201015 yr In other happier news, Continental Magazine had like a 4-page long spread from Positively Cleveland in the May Issue (http://magazine.continental.com/201005-ss-cleveland). I got all nerdily excited because that's the biggest article I remember ever seeing there about C-Town. Actually in the 1990's Cleveland was getting some phenominal press. The PBS show hosted by the economist Adam Smith showcased Cleveland. Magazine articles from across the spectrum trumpeted the re-birth and renaissance. Other cities such Oakland, CA came to ask Clevelands advice as to how to jump-start their own cities. City planners beleived that the city's popluation had stabilized around 505,000. There was the flats, new sports venues, etc, etc... What happend? Jane Campbell, Frank Jackson While we're off topic, the end of the Flats in the late 1990's under Mike White's administration was a HUGE mistake. Cleveland's legitimate tourist destination was shut down and sold off to a developer who has yet to deliver over 10 years later. What does this have to do with the airport? Especially since the post is incorrect. It had nothing to do with the airport, as I pointed out in the first line of my post. Was just weighing in on the Jane Campbell/Frank Jackson comment which I believe is not entirely fair either. There have been plenty of mistakes by all mayors.
May 28, 201015 yr Per the latest OAG upload (5/27/10), the latest schedule changes for CLE are below. Read: current frequencies per day to future frequencies per day, and the effective date: Delta: ATL-CLE 8>7 Eff Sept.- JFK-CLE 2>3 Eff Sept.-- No other changes. Given that DL operates both routes with regional jets, the changes result in no net change in overall capacity.
May 29, 201015 yr CO announced coming nonstop 787 service to Auckland, NZ from IAH, as part of an expansion of the IAH hub. So even though Jeff Smisek said, when asked about the post merger impacts on CLE, the future is unclear, they sure seem to know what they are doing at IAH. Should we worry? What impact is the 787 likely to have on CLE? The number of 1st class seats mentioned is too high for Hopkins, at least with current economics.
May 30, 201015 yr CO announced coming nonstop 787 service to Auckland, NZ from IAH, as part of an expansion of the IAH hub. So even though Jeff Smisek said, when asked about the post merger impacts on CLE, the future is unclear, they sure seem to know what they are doing at IAH. Should we worry? What impact is the 787 likely to have on CLE? The number of 1st class seats mentioned is too high for Hopkins, at least with current economics. I dont expect us to see 787 service. Continental has very few planes. 787 will replace 767 on routes. the 767 will be put on other long range routes and 757 may then be moved to Cleveland for trans con service. In regard to the 787 announcement when did that come out? also the 787 is major league delayed so I dont expect delivery of planes to Continental for a while.
May 30, 201015 yr As the 787 is so delayed, CO's announcement is the ONLY of any airline to release a specific route and schedule (and start date) for a flight using the 787. The 787 will allow CO and others to fly long routes that previously required a much larger plane, meaning it needed to fill those seats as well. Thus, the 787 will see a lot of new routes that previously couldn't profitable be served by a 744, for example. (CO tried Auckland before, i think as tag-on from HNL.) So, there may be some replacement of routes from a 767/777/747 to a 787, as well as maybe some 757's. So, regarding CLE, if there is such equipment replacement, there would be more aircraft available for routes from CLE, if they were not utilized for routes from EWR or IAH.
June 11, 201015 yr Does anyone at Hopkins believe that bringing the 3C railroad into the airport will significanlty increase passenger traffic or will it just shift existing passengers away from driving. That is, would it increase people willing to fly though Cleveland.
June 11, 201015 yr Does anyone at Hopkins believe that bringing the 3C railroad into the airport will significanlty increase passenger traffic or will it just shift existing passengers away from driving. That is, would it increase people willing to fly though Cleveland. IF CLE remains a hub, then yes I think it will increase PAX travelling thru CLE. It's like having additional connective service but via train, not airline.
June 11, 201015 yr Some british fine-dining: Pub Opens At Cleveland Hopkins International Jun 11, 2010 02:52 PM British-style pub fare is now on the menu for travelers at Cleveland Hopkins International Airport (CLE). BAA Cleveland, developer of the Airmall at CLE, is pleased to announce the recent opening of The Pub, an Ohio-based restaurant chain offering an upscale, classic pub experience similar to those across the pond. The Pub (3,800 square feet) will feature traditional fare such as bangers and mash and fish and chips, along with a host of British-inspired appetizers, sandwiches, toasted paninis, salads and desserts. Passengers at Cleveland airport can grab a pint at The Pub in the main terminal by Concourse B security http://www.aviationnews.net/?do=headline&news_ID=180211
June 23, 201014 yr Cleveland airport tops world ranking for Facebook fans and engagement Cleveland - Hopkins International Airport has earned Cleveland a Forbes ranking worth touting. The airport has the world’s top ranking for using Facebook as a social media platform, according to a study conducted by AirGates Solutions. CLE has the largest fan base among airports, with 29,738. In comparison, Atlanta has 2,497, Boston 2,293 and Denver 2,144. Cleveland Hopkins also has the most engaged fans based on a ratio of fans to total passengers. The Akron-Canton airport ranked second on the list, with 12,967 fans. http://www.newsnet5.com/dpp/news/local_news/Cleveland-airport-tops-Forbes-Ranking-for-using-Facebook
June 24, 201014 yr Latest CLE changes per the latest OAG upload: read: currently scheduled average flights per day > to > future schedule, followed by the duration or date of effect of the change. CO CLE-JAX 1>0 OCT-NOV Start delayed til DEC CLE-MCO 3>2 OCT-NOV WN (Southwest) CLE-STL 1.0>1.5 NOV- that's it. no other changes.
June 24, 201014 yr For those of you who read my posts in connection with aviation/airlines, you are no doubt aware of my preaching about O&D, yield and other related matters. Here is some interesting data regarding these topics for 2009. CVG was the FASTES growing O&D airport from Q4 2008 to Q4 2009. Its up an astounding 32%. From 818,005 PAX to 1,086,000 pax (these are quarterly totals not annual). The reason for the growth is the retrenchment of DAL and therefore the addition of competition and lowering of fares. Fares declined an equally astounding 24%. In conjunction with CVG, O&D at DAY declined 20% with a 4% decline in fares. It looks like the CVG folks who used to drive to DAY for lower fares are abandoning DAY since CVG fares are coming down. CMH is virtually unchanged at 1,480,000 vs 1,487,000 despite a 6% reduction in average fare. CLE grew by 1.2% from 1,635,000 to 1,653,000 and fares are down 5.4%. CAK (which is close enough to be the same catchment area - 37 miles, is down 1.5% from 355,000 to 349,800. Fares are constant. So CLE is basically a 2,000,000 Q4. The increase in CLE is offset by decline at CAK. NOW.... Here are some other stations Q4 2009 PIT: 1,856,000 RDU: 2,092,000 CLT: 2,340,000] EWR; 4,251,000 ATL: 6,000,000 (down 5%) DTW: 3,400,000 (down 2.5% - less than ATL!) Now for YIELD adjusted to 1,000 mile length of haul (LOH CLE: 16.82 cents (small legacy hub) CVG: 18.55 cents ( you see why DAL had a hub there will small O&D) CLT: 17.47 cents (large legacy hub) CAK: 13.25 cents (LCC airport) CMH: 14.65 cents (this is why CMH lagged as a hub - low yield) DAY: 14.44 cents (essentially like CMH despite being a much smaller market) RDU: 14.00 cents (low yield) EWR: 16.44 cents (lower than CLE) ORD: 16.36 cents (lower than CLE) IAD: 16.71 cents (lower than CLE) This is just a sample. So you see, yields at CLE are BETTER than MOST of the competing cities/hubs. Also keep in mind that you see smaller metros with larger O&D (CLT/RDU) This is because their catchment area is mega huge. People drive to CLT and RDU from as much as 100 or so miles away to get non-stop and cheaper fares. The smaller cities of NC have VERY high farea and you have to connect anyway. Thanks for the info. I'm assuming these figures are based off of a Boyd Group presentation posted on airliners.net. Playing devil's advocate, I don't see anything here that necessarily helps or hurts CLE. Certainly its yield is in line with other UA/CO hubs for the quarter posted. That being said, IAD has more capacity, a better and larger IAB/FIS facility, lower landing fees, is in one of the fastest growing parts of the nation and has firmly established connections to many cities in Europe and Asia. If I'm looking to reduce overall operations (which is what the merger is all about anyway), I can't help but look at Cleveland and see that Dulles offers more at roughly the same "cost". That being said, there are other operational issues that offset the positives of IAD, like incuring delays due to overhead flow from the SE US airports, etc. that make Cleveland look more attractive. That's why I think CLE has better shot that CVG at hanging round even if it a small hub: ORD and EWR are maxed out operationally and expanding IAD significantly could actually hurt places like EWR even more by creating additional constraints.
July 21, 201014 yr Cleveland Hopkins Airmall Celebrates Grand Opening Jul 20, 2010 08:04 AM BAA Cleveland, developer of the new Airmall at Cleveland Hopkins International Airport, will officially unveil its two-year, multi-million-dollar upgrade of concessions at Cleveland Hopkins with a grand opening celebration on July 26. The development of the new Airmall began in 2008 when the city of Cleveland selected BAA USA as the new concessions developer. The new Airmall occupies 76,000 square feet of retail space, nearly doubling the size of the previous concessions program. BAA noted that per passenger spend at the airport has increased from $5.59 when BAA assumed management of the program in February 2008 to $8.77 in 2010 (through May), an increase of nearly 60 percent, the company said. BAA said it anticipates that per passenger spend could exceed $10 in the coming years. http://www.aviationnews.net/?do=headline&news_ID=181567
July 21, 201014 yr UFood Grill Announces the Opening of a New Location at Cleveland Hopkins Airport BOSTON, Jul 21, 2010 (BUSINESS WIRE) -- UFood Restaurant Group opens a new location at the Cleveland Hopkins Airport. This new Ohio location will be operated by the Robinson Hill Hospitality Group of Chicago, IL. The UFood Grill concept was the winner of ARN's Best New Airport Concession in 2009. Travelers, airport workers and flight crews enjoy having a healthy, nutritious and quick service food option available. http://www.marketwatch.com/story/ufood-grill-announces-the-opening-of-a-new-location-at-cleveland-hopkins-airport-2010-07-21?reflink=MW_news_stmp
July 23, 201014 yr Today, in USA Today's "Today in the Sky Blog" the CEO of Airtran was quoted as seeing opportunity in Cleveland for Airtran if the CO hub is downsized or eliminated. (Is that a nonstop to Atlanta or Milwaukee? be still, my heart :roll:) As for the hub, I am starting to get that "LeBron" feeling, as Mr. Smisek has been unwilling to give clear indication of CLE's future in the system, even while announcing new routes from Houston to Auckland and Lagos. He definitely knows what their plan is for IAH. Perhaps the PD should start a HUB-O-METER to replace the LeBron-O-Meter :wink:.
July 23, 201014 yr The bottom line is CLE is the smallest hub and people in the area aren't buying tickets or people are not connect via CLE. How many here travel on a regular bases. The average household is 16-18 round trips a year.
July 23, 201014 yr I travel 30 - 40 round trips a year with many of those being NYC. Currently I fly out of Akron-Canton to NYC due to the low fare on Airtran ($200 round trip). If they kept that fare and came to Hopkins life would be great.
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