and to take it a step further, is CVG the other inter-Ohio destination that CO serves? Or are there flights to DAY and CMH as well? DL has cut CVG-CMH and CVG-DAY already.

 

Continental offers non-stop CLE-CMH flights, too.

Sorry to see DL drop CVG-CLE, but I think you're right, its mostly attributable to DL's drawdown of the CVG hub. However, they will have lost to CO all the O&D.

 

 

Though commercial service is relatively flat at CLE, maintenance/repair/overhaul work of smaller jets is booming.

 

Article in Crains: 

 

Aircraft repair outfit outgrowing Hopkins space

 

Small planes can be big business at Cleveland Hopkins International Airport — just ask Steve Maiden. “We've had double-digit (percentage sales) growth, year over year, the past four years,” said Mr. Maiden, CEO of Constant Aviation Inc., which repairs and maintains mostly small jets like those used by corporations and wealthy individuals. The privately held company does not disclose its revenues.

 

Mr. Maiden said the only drawback to operating at Hopkins — as opposed to Burke Lakefront Airport or Cuyahoga County Airport, where many other aircraft-servicing companies operate — is that Hopkins doesn't have more space to give his company....

 

http://www.crainscleveland.com/article/20111107/SUB1/311079980

 

 

Mr. Maiden said the only drawback to operating at Hopkins — as opposed to Burke Lakefront Airport or Cuyahoga County Airport, where many other aircraft-servicing companies operate — is that Hopkins doesn't have more space to give his company....

 

 

Finish building the downtown convention center, move all the I-X Center shows there, and avail this massive structure to aircraft repair, storage, etc. Problem solved. :-D

 

Mr. Maiden said the only drawback to operating at Hopkins — as opposed to Burke Lakefront Airport or Cuyahoga County Airport, where many other aircraft-servicing companies operate — is that Hopkins doesn't have more space to give his company....

 

 

Finish building the downtown convention center, move all the I-X Center shows there, and avail this massive structure to aircraft repair, storage, etc. Problem solved. :-D

 

There is plenty of square footage to have shows still at the IX Center AND move in an aircraft maintenance operation.  Much of the IX is currently used for storage.

Cleveland: Hopkins airport 'runway' extension short but mightyCLEVELAND -- A new safety feature at Cleveland Hopkins International Airport is something airport leaders hope they never have to use.

 

It's called EMAS, short for "emergency materials arresting system." It's an extension of Hopkins' shortest runway, which is about 6,100 feet,and  made of concrete-foam blocks.

 

The blocks have serious stopping power. If a pilot decides it's better not to take off and applies the breaks, that power, in addition to the blocks' strength, will decelerate the plane. It's also prevention if a pilot over- or undershoots a runway.

 

http://www.wkyc.com/news/state/article/216474/23/Cleveland-Hopkins-airport-runway-extension-short-but-mighty

Cleveland: Hopkins airport 'runway' extension short but mightyCLEVELAND -- A new safety feature at Cleveland Hopkins International Airport is something airport leaders hope they never have to use.

 

It's called EMAS, short for "emergency materials arresting system." It's an extension of Hopkins' shortest runway, which is about 6,100 feet,and  made of concrete-foam blocks.

 

The blocks have serious stopping power. If a pilot decides it's better not to take off and applies the breaks, that power, in addition to the blocks' strength, will decelerate the plane. It's also prevention if a pilot over- or undershoots a runway.

 

http://www.wkyc.com/news/state/article/216474/23/Cleveland-Hopkins-airport-runway-extension-short-but-mighty

 

Who is their editor there at KYC?  "Applies the breaks...."  LOL!

 

Who is their editor there at KYC?  "Applies the breaks...."  LOL!

 

Broadcast journalists may be adept at speaking, but not at writing or editing. That's the brakes, er, breaks.

CLE is now once again a UAL hub.  On November 30, 2011, effective 1200Z (0700EST) the Single Operating Certificate was granted to UAL/CAL by the FAA.  CAL flt 86 from PVG to EWR was the last flight operating under the CAL call sign. 

 

And,,,,,

 

12/1/11 marked the 10th anniversary of TWA's last flight

 

12/4/11 marked the 20th anniversary of PanAm's last flight

Well, there is an article in this week's Crain's about what it will take to keep the United hub at CLE.  Apparently, 17 local travel planners met with the air service development guy at CLE, and also were able to get a meeting with a United Executive.  Meanwhile, in another universe, the GCP is doing some kind of marketing plan, for which the upshot appears to be convincing companies to pay potentially higher fares to fly on United than they might have to pay on a competitor.  Is that the best they've got?  I did not see any references to higher projected O-D traffic due to new developments in NE Ohio, and I really think that is what it would take.  However, if the business community really names the initiative "United for United" I will honor them with an official bah dump bump, although if they want to use this name, perhaps someone should introduce the travel planner guys to the GCP guys, lol.

Well, there is an article in this week's Crain's about what it will take to keep the United hub at CLE.  Apparently, 17 local travel planners met with the air service development guy at CLE, and also were able to get a meeting with a United Executive.  Meanwhile, in another universe, the GCP is doing some kind of marketing plan, for which the upshot appears to be convincing companies to pay potentially higher fares to fly on United than they might have to pay on a competitor.  Is that the best they've got?  I did not see any references to higher projected O-D traffic due to new developments in NE Ohio, and I really think that is what it would take.  However, if the business community really names the initiative "United for United" I will honor them with an official bah dump bump, although if they want to use this name, perhaps someone should introduce the travel planner guys to the GCP guys, lol.

That doesn't appear to be strange or out of the norm.

 

When you negotiating contracts, you're getting one set fare on a city fare, regardless of time of booking.

 

Say the city pair is CLE to CHI.  you negotiate a fare for the premium cabin and one for the economy cabin, for x period time for x number or seats during that period.  That fare is good regardless of the market fare is.  The market fare will fluctuate so there are times a company may be paying more and an equal number of times less.  Most business travel is booked within 72 hours of actual departure, when "walk-up" (leisure) fares are at a premium.  So my negotiated fare will most likely be lower than what leisure consumer will pay for his premium or economy class ticket on the same flight.

 

Is there a link to this article?

Delta Air Lines to begin Cleveland-to-New York flights next July

By JAY MILLER

2:00 pm, December 16, 2011

 

Delta Air Lines said it will enter the Cleveland-to-New York corridor next summer with daily flights to Cleveland Hopkins International Airport from LaGuardia Airport.

 

The Atlanta-based airline said it will add five direct flights to and from Cleveland and the New York airport beginning July 12, 2012.

 

Travelers in Northeast Ohio now have a choice of a dozen or more flights daily to New York area airports. American Airlines and United Airlines fly to LaGuardia from Cleveland Hopkins and AirTran Airways flies to LaGuardia from Akron-Canton Airport. United Airlines also operates flights from Cleveland Hopkins to Newark Liberty International Airport in New Jersey and JFK International Airport in New York. Delta operates Cleveland-to-JFK flights, which will be maintained.

 

READ MORE AT:

http://www.crainscleveland.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20111216/FREE/111219878

5x daily is a big addition to the 5x daily AA and 8x daily on UA/CO (for the NY market as a whole). I hope it doesn't mean that DL knows something we don't about AA or UA. The extra service is great for CLE.

 

Here's the outbound published schedule for July 17, 2012:

 

Dep Arr Eqp  Dep  Arr  Frq (flights per week)

JFK CLE CRJ 1525 1740 7

JFK CLE CRJ 1910 2110 7

LGA CLE ERJ 0740 0945 7

LGA CLE ERJ 1000 1155 7

LGA CLE ERJ 1330 1522 7

LGA CLE ERJ 1635 1825 7

LGA CLE ERJ 1900 2054 7

Delta just ramped up its presence at LGA, so I don't think they're betting on/counting on a sudden UA/AA shift.

 

That is a lot of flights, though.

^I hope all 3 can remain strong in the market. NY used to be the 1st city pair for CLE---now its around 3rd--it'd be great to see NY return to that spot.

And I thought the 50 seat regional jets were goners,  lol

And I thought the 50 seat regional jets were goners,  lol

 

Well, the fleet is being reduced heavily.

 

I follow the industry pretty closely and if history repeats itself, Delta might be overly aggressive with their LGA expansion efforts. I would not be surprised to see these new flights go down to 2x or 3x daily, or even see DL pull out completely if fuel spikes given the competition here in CLE.

 

I don't know that I fully understand if these will be primarily aimed towards point to point travelers or connecting traffic with their new "hub" at LGA though.

 

Seems like capacity overkill to me. 

50 seat regional jets are not gonners..., at least not yet.  True in some markets they don't work and some rationalization has begun.  From what I understand CLE-LGA can be high yield, as opposed to CLE-EWR which is low.  Historically, Clevelanders have always preferred LGA as their destination airport for the NYC region.  The CLE-JFK flights are primarily for int'l connections.

 

The recent additions of Delta and American on CLE-LGA are probably to protect slots to some extent.  I don't know the exact statistics, but I'll bet some of the AA flights are frequently cancelled.  Delta may be the same way.  American had a lot of LGA open up earlier this year when they dropped certain flights to/from LGA.  This freed up jets and unused slots that had to be filled.  Hence, you add flights to markets where there is some unserved demand and yield.  Delta similarly now has many LGA slots swapped with USAirways for DCA slots.  Those LGA slots must be used or forfeited.  So, you add flights to some business centers (like CLE) and protect the slots.  Later, when you have data to anylize you can make adjustments plus or minus.

 

And, you must also look at the demand going the other way.  What is the demand for LGA to CLE?  We are tending to just look at the demand from CLE. 

 

It will also be interesting to see how UAL reacts.  Delta and AA are using ERJ's on the segment.  UAL has the ability to use mainline with F class.  Also, UAL has the resources to flood the market on this segment and depress fares to the point where AA and Delta leave the market.  Later, they can raise fares when they are once again the only airline in the market.

 

A subsidized 70-mile flight -- really? It's a fault of federal transportation policy, not anyone in Youngstown. The lack of public and private capital investment in rail infrastructure is the reason why aviation has to fill the void for fast trips, even for trips as short as 70 miles.

 

Daily flights from Youngstown to Cleveland taxi toward 2012 reality

Published: Thu, December 22, 2011 @ 12:09 a.m.

By Ed Runyan

[email protected]

 

VIENNA

Negotiations are finally moving in the direction of restoring daily air service to the Youngstown-Warren Regional Airport, the airport’s director reported Wednesday.

 

The Western Reserve Port Authority, which runs the airport, authorized Dan Dickten, director of aviation, to continue negotiations with Gulfstream International of Fort Lauderdale.

 

The airline could start up flights between the local airport and Cleveland Hopkins International Airport as early as the first three months of 2012, Dickten said.

 

...The Youngstown-Warren Regional Airport would provide Gulfstream with a revenue guarantee to start up the service. Two-thirds of the guarantee would come from a $575,000 U.S. Department of Transportation Small Community Air Service Development Program grant the airport received in October 2007.

 

READ MORE AT:

http://www.vindy.com/news/2011/dec/22/daily-flights-to-cleveland-taxi-toward--/

^

I think some airlines have toyed around with using buses to get people from nearby small metros to their hub airport versus using small aircraft.

 

I think as fuel continues to rise and the economics of small regional jets comes into play, we might see more in the way of "air buses" or "air trains" operated by the airlines that get people from the regional airports to the nearby hubs.

 

But people who live in their 300,000 to 600,000 metros an hour or two outside of a million plus metro really do love the convenience of their local airport, no matter how wasteful or impractical it might be. People like that they can just ask a friend or family member to make that quick 10 minute drive to drop them off or pick them up. Try asking a friend or relative if they would drive you to the hub airport 90 minutes away and watch them make up an excuse. Airlines know that in some small markets people will gladly pay a premium to avoid boarding directly at the big hub (long drive times, long security lines, cost of parking) so in some cases it works to their economic advantage when they can charge significantly higher fares. I don't think this would be the case at YNG.

 

This CLE-YNG proposal seems to be bucking the trend in Ohio. With the loss of service between TOL-DTW and DAY-CVG, I'm not sure this would last and if the subsidy is warranted.

 

 

Since the Aerotropolis article appeared in the PD this spring, has anything happened?  I think the natural route of development of such an aerotropolis would be along the Red Line from West Park to Berea.  This way, only three cities need to collaborate, Cleveland, Brook Park, and Berea.  A rail link that already runs alongside would also be able to transport cargo between the airport and the lakefront port.

 

What is the future of the I-X Center?  Have they decided whether they are tearing it down or keeping it?  It seems like the decision makers are always hemming and hawing on this one.  I ask this because if they are keeping it, then it makes sense to extend the Red Line to the I-X Center (and onto Berea) and build a hotel next to it.  I think it's rather silly that the airport hotel is so far from the I-X Center.  A combined airport-hotel-convention center is what makes for a convenient aerotropolis.

 

But if the eventual plan is to tear down the I-X Center when the downtown convention center/medical mart is built, then there's no need to sink the investment.  However, that would mean spending more money to build another convention center near the airport, unless people are talking about refitting the Ford plant as a convention center.  An industrial-themed convention center would certainly look cool, but I think the Ford plant is staying open.

^ I-X Center:

 

http://www.tsnn.com/news-blogs/cleveland%E2%80%99s-i-x-center-plans-invest-30-million-draw-more-business-20110628

Not a service change, but apparently more transparency about landing fees or some company just made a good sale, replacing the city's existing system. Here's that company's press release.

 

"STAMFORD, Conn., Feb. 14, 2012 /PRNewswire/ -- PASSUR® Aerospace, Inc. (OTC: PSSR.PK) announced today that Cleveland Hopkins International Airport and Cleveland Burke Lakefront Airport have contracted for the PASSUR® Landing Fee Management solution to ensure that the airports capture all their landing fees, forecast and plan revenue accurately, and simplify the process through automation...."

 

http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/cleveland-hopkins-international-airport-and-cleveland-burke-lakefront-airport-contract-for-passur-revenue-management-solutions-139278383.html

 

 

as of this weekend, CO is no more....very sad. Looks like some major delays at ORD and IAD--UA hubs--as the integration was implemented. Farewell to a great airline.

Was curious what others' thoughts were regarding the new terrazo floor on Concourse C.  Although I'm generally pro-terrazo flooring in airports, I think the Hopkins re-do looks pretty pathetic.  The design and color scheme just seem really dated and cheap looking.  Other airports have done a much better job.  I'm thinking of Reagan in D.C. and Denver in particular. 

Beats the nasty carpet still found in other concourses.

Cannot believe we missed this??

 

New hotel-office complex one of possible improvements in Cleveland Hopkins' new master plan

Published: Thursday, April 14, 2011, 7:26 PM     Updated: Friday, April 15, 2011, 8:12 AM

  By Mark Gillispie, The Plain Dealer

 

CLEVELAND, Ohio -- A new hotel and an above-ground connection from Concourse C to Concourse D are two of the highlights of a master plan developed for Cleveland Hopkins International Airport.

 

The plan shows a hotel and office complex that is connected to the main terminal, the short-term parking garage and the Regional Transit Authority terminal.

 

The plan estimates the cost of the hotel at $82 million, which would be borne by the developers.

 

Airport officials unveiled the 25-year master plan, which would cost $1.6 billion to complete, during a public workshop Thursday at the airport. It is essentially a wish list of airport improvements developed by the city, airlines and related businesses.

 

http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2011/04/new_hotel-office_complex_one_o.html?mobRedir=false

Check out page 50. The article is from 4/15/11.

^hmm... Off by a year eh?  Damn iPhone...

 

My apologies!

^It's ok, we will let you slide this time :wink:

Also...

 

Courtesy of the great ppl at Aerial Aspect Photography http://www.facebook.com/aerialaspect there is another tower going up in Cleveland standing 324 ft. The new Air Traffic Control Tower at CLE will replace the current 198 ft. tower and will be operational in 2014.

 

 

Nice shot. I was wondering why there was a crane erected there.

Haven't been on here in a while but some news on UAL CLE hub.

 

Merrill Lynch hosted an airline industry conference this past week.  UAL presented at a Q&A hosted by their new CFO, Zane Rowe.

 

When asked a question specific to the CLE concerning hub closures post merger similar to Delta, his reply is as follows:  "The Delta/Northwest merger saw hubs closing, and United reiterated that hubs have to earn a position in the combined network, and for now Cleveland is doing that."

 

Nothing commital mind you, but apparently CLE is holding its own.

That's probably about as good as can expected as this point. Thanks.

I hope he is not BSing, but I can tell you Delta never showed its cards before each announcement of another cutback. All the time it was "the hub is staying blah blah blah".

Looks like UA is dropping CLE-CVG, beginning August 2012. DL did as well a while ago. So, if there are no new takers, there will no longer be non-stop service between CLE and Cincinnati. Pax loads were very light anyway, and Cincy folks probably used DL hubs in ATL and DTW more than the UA hub in CLE. Beginning Aug, UA will offer zero flights.... SBN seems to be dropped as well as of Oct. This as of the latest OAG upload....UA could update it any time, though....

And nice to see UA inaugurating U.S. 787 service with a new non-stop from Denver-Tokyo, isn't it? DEN metro is smaller than NEO - but they're a busy hub - and apparently THEY are earning their place in route network daily and are getting rewarded. DIA has several European non-stops and now the prize of getting first 787 flights - and to Tokyo, no less. CLE is, by far, the largest metro without non-stops to Europe. Heck, even Raleigh has a non-stop to London - and non-hub DL flies to CDG from PIT. Why is Cleveland always behind our metro peers in pretty much everything?

^How things change.  I remember taking a flight to Cincy a "long time ago" on business (at least 20 years ago...my one and only time as I usually drove) and the plane was packed (early morning flight) and if I recall there were 3-4 departures a day to Cincy at the time.

And nice to see UA inaugurating U.S. 787 service with a new non-stop from Denver-Tokyo, isn't it? DEN metro is smaller than NEO - but they're a busy hub - and apparently THEY are earning their place in route network daily and are getting rewarded. DIA has several European non-stops and now the prize of getting first 787 flights - and to Tokyo, no less. CLE is, by far, the largest metro without non-stops to Europe. Heck, even Raleigh has a non-stop to London - and non-hub DL flies to CDG from PIT. Why is Cleveland always behind our metro peers in pretty much everything?

 

The size of a certain metro area has little to do with the airport.  I remember when Cleveland metro was bigger than ATL, ATL still had a larger airport operation.

 

United sunk a ton of money into the new DIA.  It has 5 runways and a state of the art terminal and is their defacto west coast "hub".  And SFO and LAX are they "Focus" cities, just shy of being hubs.

 

Why the debbie downer comment when you're not sure of the facts or airport operations?  The  "whoa is me" syndromr is a bigger Cleveland problem  than us "keeping up with the Joneses" or worrying about what other cities have!

^How things change.  I remember taking a flight to Cincy a "long time ago" on business (at least 20 years ago...my one and only time as I usually drove) and the plane was packed (early morning flight) and if I recall there were 3-4 departures a day to Cincy at the time.

 

Very true... Many years ago when i was a Mad Dog (MD88) driver, I used to fly CVG-CLE.....

And nice to see UA inaugurating U.S. 787 service with a new non-stop from Denver-Tokyo, isn't it? DEN metro is smaller than NEO - but they're a busy hub - and apparently THEY are earning their place in route network daily and are getting rewarded. DIA has several European non-stops and now the prize of getting first 787 flights - and to Tokyo, no less. CLE is, by far, the largest metro without non-stops to Europe. Heck, even Raleigh has a non-stop to London - and non-hub DL flies to CDG from PIT. Why is Cleveland always behind our metro peers in pretty much everything?

 

DIA has major connectivity that CLE doesn't.  In the later years of CAL and now UAL, CLE is predominately O&D with a couple of major connecting banks.  DIA has millions passing through each year.  There;s an economy of scale.  Pax arrive, transferred and leave in great numbers.  Also keep in mind that Concourse C cannot accomodate alot of people at one time.  There's no where to warehouse people between flights.  As far as RDU, well their LHR flight is subsidized by local companies who need convenience to the UK.  PIT service was subsidized until last year.  If DAL could find a better use for the B757 on that segment, they would probably drop it.

 

The size of a certain metro area has little to do with the airport.  I remember when Cleveland metro was bigger than ATL, ATL still had a larger airport operation.

 

United sunk a ton of money into the new DIA.  It has 5 runways and a state of the art terminal and is their defacto west coast "hub".  And SFO and LAX are they "Focus" cities, just shy of being hubs.

 

Why the debbie downer comment when you're not sure of the facts or airport operations?  The  "whoa is me" syndromr is a bigger Cleveland problem  than us "keeping up with the Joneses" or worrying about what other cities have!

MTS - I talk population quite a bit - and it isn't the end all be all, i know... But it is a measuring stick of what cities should have, to some degree... At some point - if all metros with 3-4MM+- or even smaller - have flights to Europe, etc... and Neiman-Marcus stores (we've talked about it with regards to retail, too...) and fancy convention centers (we're finally getting ours) and we don't - then what aren't we doing or what should we be doing to get them?  This ain't Des Moines...

 

I hate to be considered a "Debbie Downer" - that's not my intention - as I very much appreciate what Cleveland does have - but am admittedly a bit jealous of what we do not. There's a difference.  I should note I'm actually trying to DO something about some of these issues (if you knew the # of letters I'd written to retailers over the years...)

 

As it relates to DIA - I am a frequent flyer and fully aware of the variables and facilities from city to city.  That's a very busy and grand airport - located centrally in the west for connections. And CO is a big tourist destination - where my wife is from... I get it, I get it... but still....

MD88PILOT: Yes, I've read about RDU flights being subsidized - and know about the PIT DL support.  But where are our business leaders in CLE stepping up to do the same with our HUB airline?  I don't recall hearing a firm offer of subsidized flights to LHR, etc...  As a passenger, I used the CO CLE-CDG and CLE-LGW non-stops in recent years and wow, what a convenience...

 

And if CLE concourse C and our outdated concourse A customs, etc... are an issue in CLE getting the flights to Europe, getting more passengers through, well then that's a pretty clear area to improve. With that said - as a regular flyer, I'm always kind in my reviews of CLE - easy to get around, flights to enough places, etc...

IF CLE wants to compete----AND help its position to keep UA---it should pony up the cash and build a new customs facility (under "C") instead of trying to make an airline that won't even commit to the city pay for it. Then CLE could not only be better facility for UA, but could attract other carriers (LH, BA, for example) in its own right. Write your councilmen and the mayor! We could use the casino money....

IF CLE wants to compete----AND help its position to keep UA---it should pony up the cash and build a new customs facility (under "C") instead of trying to make an airline that won't even commit to the city pay for it. Then CLE could not only be better facility for UA, but could attract other carriers (LH, BA, for example) in its own right. Write your councilmen and the mayor! We could use the casino money....

 

Before we get ahead of ourselves, we need capacity first, that cannot be done until the new convention center is operational.  Once that is operational, the IX can be shut down.  Then the airport can build onto that space. 

 

IIRC, (I cannot find the article) although cleveland runway space is only operating at 65% of capcity, the terminal space is at 95%.

 

There are a lot of things that need to happen before building a new terminal.

^MTS, CLE has PLENTY of capacity---for both runway operations and terminal space. 95%??? We have capacity right now WITH the I-X center. We just shortened a runway by 1,000 feet you know to avoid an intersection with Rwy 10-28. While its true, CLE has horribly small gates (hard to fit enough chairs for a 240-seat int'l flight), the terminal is fairly empty much of the time. In fact, both passengers levels and aircraft operations are well-below their peak. So the capacity we certainly have. What we're missing is the leadership and will to take action to make the city more attractive to airlines. A new customs facility is probably the number one priority right now at CLE, but the city is shying away and hoping some airline will come along and want to pay for it. The City talks of tearing down a parking garage to reduce parking at hopkins (sending the absolute wrong message to UA about growing things here) instead of spending that same money to build an FIS and grow the traffic.

 

dwirthwein wasn't off base. CLE is a much more int'l city than DEN and probably with a larger business community. cities must compete tooth and nail. so if DEN has such service, CLE certainly should too, as there's only so much service to go around. DEN built a great facility that puts Hopkins to shame, so airlines love it. That CLE is near Chicago and Newark and Dulles isn't really relevant here. Cleveland is a giant 4M-5M population air market in its own right.

 

Before we get ahead of ourselves, we need capacity first, that cannot be done until the new convention center is operational.  Once that is operational, the IX can be shut down. 

 

Not to get off topic, but it's worth noting that the CC and the IX Center are being touted as two completely different animals, with the former attempting to attract professional conventions and the latter going for the much larger trade shows (ie: auto show, home & garden show, etc.).  The operators have said as much, that the two facilities are actually complimentary and that the new CC will not replace the IX.  There's a reason the IX is in the middle of a $30M expansion.

Don't forget about the competition, there are Akron-Canton, Columbus, and Pittsburgh airports all within a couple hours drive to CLE. Denver doesn't have that competition to compete with.

 

Before we get ahead of ourselves, we need capacity first, that cannot be done until the new convention center is operational.  Once that is operational, the IX can be shut down. 

 

Not to get off topic, but it's worth noting that the CC and the IX Center are being touted as two completely different animals, with the former attempting to attract professional conventions and the latter going for the much larger trade shows (ie: auto show, home & garden show, etc.).  The operators have said as much, that the two facilities are actually complimentary and that the new CC will not replace the IX.  There's a reason the IX is in the middle of a $30M expansion.

 

and why is the IX center renovating?  They know that the downtown center will be were most trade shows will wont to go.  Although new, the downtown center cannot host super large events, but will take away from the IX, since there has been no competition.

 

Once more hotels, restaurants and venues open near the new MM/CC, the IX will hurt because it has no infrustructure.  Most conventions and attendees perfer to be in the city not on the fringe.

 

I dont see the IX staying open more than a decade no matter what they do.

and why is the IX center renovating?  They know that the downtown center will be were most trade shows will wont to go.  Although new, the downtown center cannot host super large events, but will take away from the IX, since there has been no competition.

 

Not sure I follow.  The new CC can't host the super large events, like you said.  So then what will they take away from the IX?  That's pretty much their bread and butter.

 

Once more hotels, restaurants and venues open near the new MM/CC, the IX will hurt because it has no infrustructure.  Most conventions and attendees perfer to be in the city not on the fringe.

 

But the vast majority of the people who are attending trade shows at the IX Center aren't staying in hotels in the first place.  That is why the one is for conventions (CC) and one is for trade shows (IX).  I don't think that the IX Center was ever touted as a convention space.  I don't see the direct competition.