United is shuffling some 50-seat E145's among its supporting express carriers. ExpressJet is losing a bunch, some of which will go to CommutAir.  Expressjet has several fairly sizable maintenance bases, and one of them is at CLE. I wonder if the hangar and employees will shift to Commutair, which currently maintains it propjets in Albany, NY, although its operational hqs is in North Olmsted.

 

I think UA is trying to kill ExpressJet as a lesson in cost control for its other express carriers.

^Are you saying UA is moving aircraft between companies or just awarding these companies more/less routes?  I thought these individual companies (ExpressJet and CommutAir) each own their own fleet and UA contract with them (as do other airlines). Please clarify.

^In the case of the E145's UA owns them and bails them to the operators - a legacy of Continental.

^Ah, interesting, thanks. Didn't know UA actually owned them.

United is shuffling some 50-seat E145's among its supporting express carriers. ExpressJet is losing a bunch, some of which will go to CommutAir.  Expressjet has several fairly sizable maintenance bases, and one of them is at CLE. I wonder if the hangar and employees will shift to Commutair, which currently maintains it propjets in Albany, NY, although its operational hqs is in North Olmsted.

 

I think UA is trying to kill ExpressJet as a lesson in cost control for its other express carriers.

 

UA continually plays games with it's express carriers, looking for cost efficiencies. They did it with Atlantic Coast Airlines and Air Wisconsin a decade ago. There's no loyalty from UA in it's contract with those smaller carriers. If they can find a cheaper "partner" UA will go to that airline almost every time even it means upending crew and maintenance bases.

This is purely a personal observation, but I'm visiting my parents in Olmsted Falls and I've noticed a pretty continual stream of aircraft (and aircraft noise!) overhead - way more than in the past times I've been up north in the last 5-ish years. Bad for my sleep patterns, but a pretty good sign for Hopkins!

My mother lives in the Park Ridge Apartments at Grayton and Puritas. My son also takes pony riding classes just down the hill in the Metroparks. And I too have noticed what appears to be an increase in air traffic. Totally unscientific and non-statistical but, there it is.

^  The number of commercial operations at Hopkins hasn't changed a whole lot in the last two years.  In May of 2017 there were about 280 operations on an average day up from about 270 in 2015. The proportion of quieter and smaller regional jets in the mix, however, has declined substantially from about 70% to about 50%; thus, more noise.

^Is there rhyme or reason as to why planes may approach from the Southwest (over Olmsted Falls) vs the approach from the NE (Over downtown)?  Any reason that may have changed with more coming from the SW? making it more noticeable for someone who lives there?

^ I've always assumed it is due to weather patterns and/or prevailing winds.  But just a guess.

Planes always land and take off into the wind (or as close to it as possible). That provides extra windspeed over the wings.

^  The number of commercial operations at Hopkins hasn't changed a whole lot in the last two years.  In May of 2017 there were about 280 operations on an average day up from about 270 in 2015. The proportion of quieter and smaller regional jets in the mix, however, has declined substantially from about 70% to about 50%; thus, more noise.

 

It's also the type of engine and age of the aircraft as well. Some of the older regional jets are actually louder than the newer 737s and narrowbody Airbuses.

 

The other question is: has there been a recent change in approach patterns to Hopkins? I'll try to the dig them up later to see.

^  The number of commercial operations at Hopkins hasn't changed a whole lot in the last two years.  In May of 2017 there were about 280 operations on an average day up from about 270 in 2015. The proportion of quieter and smaller regional jets in the mix, however, has declined substantially from about 70% to about 50%; thus, more noise.

 

It's also the type of engine and age of the aircraft as well. Some of the older regional jets are actually louder than the newer 737s and narrowbody Airbuses.

 

The other question is: has there been a recent change in approach patterns to Hopkins? I'll try to the dig them up later to see.

 

Do airlines have any influence over that at all?  In my experience, landing from the SW saves a solid 10 minutes over the fly over the airport out to the lake, turn around over Euclid-ish, and return over downtown approach from the NE.  Would definitely yield tighter possible flight schedules.

^  The number of commercial operations at Hopkins hasn't changed a whole lot in the last two years.  In May of 2017 there were about 280 operations on an average day up from about 270 in 2015. The proportion of quieter and smaller regional jets in the mix, however, has declined substantially from about 70% to about 50%; thus, more noise.

 

It's also the type of engine and age of the aircraft as well. Some of the older regional jets are actually louder than the newer 737s and narrowbody Airbuses.

 

The other question is: has there been a recent change in approach patterns to Hopkins? I'll try to the dig them up later to see.

 

Do airlines have any influence over that at all?  In my experience, landing from the SW saves a solid 10 minutes over the fly over the airport out to the lake, turn around over Euclid-ish, and return over downtown approach from the NE.  Would definitely yield tighter possible flight schedules.

 

The approaches depend on weather and wind direction. Airlines have no control over the approach their assigned.

 

As for the supposed time savings landing from SW, remember that only a portion of the flights originate from the south. I am on flights from Chicago several times a month and it is a straight shot east from O'Hare, across Lake Michigan/over Detroit - then a right hand turn into Hopkins. Of my 20-30+  landings a year at Hopkins, I would say 75% are from the NE/downtown TO the southwest...

Plus, after they land that way, they've got to taxi all the way back parallel to the runway. Ideally, airlines would land in the direction they're coming from, have the gate near the runway, and be able to take off close to the gate as well. Southwest has gates on the end of Concourse B, in part because they are closer to 24L.

 

As for the supposed time savings landing from SW, remember that only a portion of the flights originate from the south. I am on flights from Chicago several times a month and it is a straight shot east from O'Hare, across Lake Michigan/over Detroit - then a right hand turn into Hopkins. Of my 20-30+  landings a year at Hopkins, I would say 75% are from the NE/downtown TO the southwest...

 

That is due to prevailing winds.  They tend to be out of the west/southwest.  It just so happens downtown is straight out from runway(s) 6

How are Allegiant's numbers out of CLE?  I haven't ever been on one of their flights, but I'm thinking of booking them on a one from from SAV to CLE.  Any of you have any experiences with them, either out of CLE or anywhere else for that matter? 

How are Allegiant's numbers out of CLE?  I haven't ever been on one of their flights, but I'm thinking of booking them on a one from from SAV to CLE.  Any of you have any experiences with them, either out of CLE or anywhere else for that matter?

 

Allegiant is great if your schedule is flexible and you have time in case of issues/delays. If the flight out of Cleveland is first thing in the morning to Savannah, I would book it (plane has been at airport overnight). If its later in the afternoon be prepared for possibility of delays. Also try and keep an option b available, just in case they decide to cancel your return flight. It happened to me before.

How are Allegiant's numbers out of CLE?  I haven't ever been on one of their flights, but I'm thinking of booking them on a one from from SAV to CLE.  Any of you have any experiences with them, either out of CLE or anywhere else for that matter?

 

I've flown multiple times from CLE to SAV due to my parents having a place in nearby Hilton Head. I must say - I have been pleasantly surprised by every aspect of Allegiant. The planes are clean, people are nice, and flights have been on-time (knock on wood). Every time I've flown, it's been at least 75% full.

^ agree with Klingaling.  I did a CLE-SAV roundtrip in July.  Saturday to Saturday.  Honestly, i have a two year old we fly with, which petrifies me...it was the quickest and most seemless trip we have ever taken with her.  Allegiant was punctual, clean and professional.  Now, i know that one hiccup could make everyone miserable...fortunately we did not get that hiccup. Our flight was pretty full both times, im not sure about the other routes.

 

If you plan your course of action prior to booking you can save the most money.  For example, decide how you are going to pack your bags.  If you are going with a family of four, can you jam everything into two checked bags and everyone take a personal item on the plane.  You are only paying for two checked bags at the time of booking, which is $20 per bag.  The closer you get to the date of travel, that $20 turns more into $40 or $50.  Then decide not to buy your seat, if you check in exactly 24 hours before, there is a good chance you will be sitting with the people you are traveling with, and saving another $40.  Print your tickets at home or get the mobile app and save another $20.

 

All in all, i thought it was favorable and i loved the routes.  Hoping for more in the future. The SAV flight was in the afternoon for me...like a 4 or 5 PM takeoff

How are Allegiant's numbers out of CLE?  I haven't ever been on one of their flights, but I'm thinking of booking them on a one from from SAV to CLE.  Any of you have any experiences with them, either out of CLE or anywhere else for that matter?

 

Feb, '17 - 5,753 boardings Load factor 77%

Mar - 14,872  86%

Apr - 12,817  73%

May - 13,036  74%

 

So in Cleveland, they're one of the least crowded of the ultra low fare guys. Spirit, Frontier, and JetBlue loads are usually 10-15% higher. The FAA is after them regularly over their maintenance. Their delay/cancelation rate is an attention getter. Their newer Airbuses are more reliable than their older MD-80's

Those are not good numbers for an ULCC.  Allegiant would like those to be at least 88-90%.  As Dougal stated, their Airbus are just as good as any other non-LCC airline, except for the seat pitch.  The MD-83 and boeing 757's seem to always have mechanical issues.

I wouldnt be surprised if they ditched some routes and kept others.  Austin, Jax and Savannah are probably going to fill up easier and more consistently than FLL, even Punta Gorda or Clearwater.  You can get to all of those destinations on a more reputable airline with frequent flier programs.  I wouldnt mind seeing them ditch some of the other florida routes like Destin, FLL and Punta Gorda and pick up Palm Springs, Honululu or San Juan...their other "hubs"

You don't mean a nonstop to Honolulu, right?

It's an allegiant "destination city", at least according to their route map. Granted they serve most western cities to the west sunny spots and most eastern cities to the eastern sunny spots, if they achieve legit growth with their business model, you have to imagine they will try to grow their hubs routes.  But yeah I realize it's far fetched

You don't mean a nonstop to Honolulu, right?

 

UA used to fly CLE-HNL on a 747 during their first hub days.

I did a bit of research and found that a 752 w/ P&W engines has a range of 4521 miles. The distance between CLE and HNL is about 4550. Still, I don't think Allegiant, or any airline will fly directly to Honolulu, at least for a  little while. I can't think of any cities in the Midwest not called Chicago (or Minneapolis) with a nonstop to Hawaii. Is there ample demand to sustain this route somewhere in the range of Kansas City to Nashville to Pittsburgh and the cities in between?

You don't mean a nonstop to Honolulu, right?

 

UA used to fly CLE-HNL on a 747 during their first hub days.

 

With a stop in Chicago, I believe.

^yes, that is true.

I did a bit of research and found that a 752 w/ P&W engines has a range of 4521 miles. The distance between CLE and HNL is about 4550. Still, I don't think Allegiant, or any airline will fly directly to Honolulu, at least for a  little while. I can't think of any cities in the Midwest not called Chicago (or Minneapolis) with a nonstop to Hawaii. Is there ample demand to sustain this route somewhere in the range of Kansas City to Nashville to Pittsburgh and the cities in between?

 

 

A few years back I took a direct flight from HNL to CVG. Let me tell you, I appreciated the west cost layover on the way there. That was a loooooong flight.

I took a similar flight HNL to CLE, and sitting in the middle seat in the 777 for five hours was enough discomfort. Switching to a smaller plane on the second leg of the trip makes more sense. A 757 nonstop would be a stretch, and I don't mind layovers on flights that long, so I don't really care if Allegiant starts 757 service to HNL, and I don't think they would consider it.

^ you are right, they wont...if you look at their route maps...they take west coast colder cities like Pasco, Boise, Eugene and send them south to sunny west coast cities.  They do the same on the east coast....they arent very transcontinental.  I wonder if that will ever change.

I did a bit of research and found that a 752 w/ P&W engines has a range of 4521 miles. The distance between CLE and HNL is about 4550. Still, I don't think Allegiant, or any airline will fly directly to Honolulu, at least for a  little while. I can't think of any cities in the Midwest not called Chicago (or Minneapolis) with a nonstop to Hawaii. Is there ample demand to sustain this route somewhere in the range of Kansas City to Nashville to Pittsburgh and the cities in between?

 

 

A few years back I took a direct flight from HNL to CVG. Let me tell you, I appreciated the west cost layover on the way there. That was a loooooong flight.

 

The Delta seasonal to HNL we flew a couple of times and it was a miserable flight. First day and half in HNL the family was basically sore and miserable. It was convenient and at least they flew a 767-300 on the route. I think the last time it flew out of CVG was 2010 or so. 

I did a bit of research and found that a 752 w/ P&W engines has a range of 4521 miles. The distance between CLE and HNL is about 4550. Still, I don't think Allegiant, or any airline will fly directly to Honolulu, at least for a  little while. I can't think of any cities in the Midwest not called Chicago (or Minneapolis) with a nonstop to Hawaii. Is there ample demand to sustain this route somewhere in the range of Kansas City to Nashville to Pittsburgh and the cities in between?

 

Clearly not enough to meet the FAA fuel reserve and time for ETOPS (extended range twinjet ops standards)!  :wink:

"...Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) is set to award $162.4 million in airport infrastructure grants through the Airport Improvement Program (AIP). The grants will affect 72 airports in 31 states [including:]...

 

Cleveland-Hopkins International Airport in Cleveland, OH, $7.3 million – funds will be used to purchase snow removal equipment...."

 

http://www.equipmentworld.com/usdot-faa-to-award-162-3-million-in-airport-infrastructure-grants/

Omitted from the PD's report of record July traffic (best since 2001) at CLE is the fact that Kennedy said both Frontier and Southwest will be announcing more new service.

 

http://www.clevelandairport.com/cleveland-hopkins-airport-exceeds-monthly-passenger-counts-during-march-july-2017

 

 

I did a bit of research and found that a 752 w/ P&W engines has a range of 4521 miles. The distance between CLE and HNL is about 4550. Still, I don't think Allegiant, or any airline will fly directly to Honolulu, at least for a  little while. I can't think of any cities in the Midwest not called Chicago (or Minneapolis) with a nonstop to Hawaii. Is there ample demand to sustain this route somewhere in the range of Kansas City to Nashville to Pittsburgh and the cities in between?

 

Clearly not enough to meet the FAA fuel reserve and time for ETOPS (extended range twinjet ops standards)!  :wink:

 

I had heard 'ETOPS' stood for 'Engines Turn Or Passengers Swim.' Same principle I guess. Lol.

Is it just me, or is airfare getting pretty cheap. Look at all the $100+ fares from Hopkins roundtrip to Chicago. I'm flying my dad to Chicago for $116.40 roundtrip. Last year it was almost $300!

Depends on the route, but more low cost carriers at CLE have made the pricing more competitive. Frontier expanding, JetBlue and Spirit arriving, and recently, Allegiant. A flight to Boston might cost $200, as United, Jetblue, and Spirit all fly there, while American will charge you over $400 for a shorter CLE-PHL flight and is the only airline, since Frontier apparently cancelled Philadelphia, with a nonstop there.

United and American Airlines are also hitting those sub-$150 numbers. Google flights has been a pretty good resource for cheap and reasonable fares.

And CLE-Newark is still about $1,000(!) for an early in/late out same day trip on United, like I am doing next week, even buying a month+ out. Instead, I actually booked CAK-Newark non-stop on United for around  $350...

 

Just for fun, I looked again right now and on a randomly chosen Sept 19th, you can fly CLE-Newark for $30 non-stop (arriving 10 am), but must pay  $1,100 to get back at 9 pm. But if you try to book the $30 flight just one way, it is $600.

 

(Have to be IN Newark so easier to fly there...)

 

 

 

Are we doing airport codes again?

 

Cleveland-Honolulu is not happening for all the reasons already stated. United tried daily Dulles-Honolulu two years ago and within six months scaled it back to Saturday only. For the amount of time it takes to fly to Hawaii from the Eastern Time Zone cities you can fly to many Euro cities and then some.

 

Realistically Hopkins staff needs to focus on expanding San Juan, Cancun, Punta Cana, Nassau and Kingston along with adding Aruba. Or maybe a weekender to the Virgin Islands.

 

Omitted from the PD's report of record July traffic (best since 2001) at CLE is the fact that Kennedy said both Frontier and Southwest will be announcing more new service.

 

http://www.clevelandairport.com/cleveland-hopkins-airport-exceeds-monthly-passenger-counts-during-march-july-2017

 

Dougal, you mean record O&D? I'm sure when Hopkins served 14 million pax back in the late 90s there were well over 1 million passengers using the airport in July. There's no mention of any record in the press release either.

 

 

As for Allegiant, I don't see them becoming very dominant at Cleveland. They've opened up crew/maintenance bases at Pittsburgh, Cincinnati and Indianapolis. It tells me that any new service will start from those cities and then if they have the aircraft those routes will work their way to Cleveland.

 

I think CLE's primary growth opportunities for the near term are Frontier and Southwest.

Dougal, you mean record O&D? I'm sure when Hopkins served 14 million pax back in the late 90s there were well over 1 million passengers using the airport in July. There's no mention of any record in the press release either.

 

My typo. It's the best July since 2009, not 2001. Sorry for the confusion.

 

Icelandair is starting flights to Cleveland! Four days a week to Keflavik Airport beginning in May 2018.  CLE finally gets its coveted route to Europe.

 

For what it's worth, I think Icelandair is a much better "get" than WOW, which flies to Pittsburgh.  Icelandair is a much more reliable operation with better inflight service (including business class and economy plus options) and more connecting options in Europe.  Big win for CLE.

Where are you seeing/getting this info? That would be really awesome if true

Here's a link: http://www.mbl.is/vidskipti/frettir/2017/08/22/icelandair_hefur_flug_til_cleveland/

 

4x weekly. Begins in May 2018.

It's been a while since I brushed up on my Icelandic...

 

Thanks for the link :)