Sounds like de-hubbing CLE was a bad idea? 

Sounds like de-hubbing CLE was a bad idea? 

 

At the time the decision was made, it was probably (as usual) a short term benefit decision that could possibly have appeased shareholders to say "hey we are trying to do something to maintain high profits", but I think they underestimated the ability of their other hubs (particularly Chicago) to absorb the traffic.  CLE was never a "big" hub for Continental, but it served a purpose to move around their mid-continent traffic pretty well.  I think UA is playing catch-up with Delta (again as usual) and perhaps should have maintained Cleveland the way that Delta maintains Cincinnati airport; it is a hub, but a very small one and can serve to relieve pressure on their larger hubs.  I would imagine CVG saw some more connecting traffic this past weekend due to the interruptions in ATL; on my way out of DFW this weekend there were definitely more people waiting for a CVG flight than might usually be seen.

 

I think UA could get their route analysts on the case and restore some limited routes that are crowded out of ORD and have business ties with local origin/destination traffic... relieve some of their on-time/traffic woes in ORD and try and make a little more money at a station they know they are obligated to pay for (Concourse D, anyone) for the next decade.  They probably wouldn't even need to obtain any more gates... what they have would probably be more than adequate and they could occasionally use the common use gates if necessary.

Delta has finally increased aircraft size in Cincinnati on a number of flights. All the CRJ200 are gone and we are seeing alot more 717 and larger aircraft on flights. I think Delta realized that CVG is a great city to move alot of the midwest traffic through and get over flow east/west coast traffic flights

 

 

Sounds like de-hubbing CLE was a bad idea? 

 

At the time the decision was made, it was probably (as usual) a short term benefit decision that could possibly have appeased shareholders to say "hey we are trying to do something to maintain high profits", but I think they underestimated the ability of their other hubs (particularly Chicago) to absorb the traffic.  CLE was never a "big" hub for Continental, but it served a purpose to move around their mid-continent traffic pretty well.  I think UA is playing catch-up with Delta (again as usual) and perhaps should have maintained Cleveland the way that Delta maintains Cincinnati airport; it is a hub, but a very small one and can serve to relieve pressure on their larger hubs.  I would imagine CVG saw some more connecting traffic this past weekend due to the interruptions in ATL; on my way out of DFW this weekend there were definitely more people waiting for a CVG flight than might usually be seen.

 

I think UA could get their route analysts on the case and restore some limited routes that are crowded out of ORD and have business ties with local origin/destination traffic... relieve some of their on-time/traffic woes in ORD and try and make a little more money at a station they know they are obligated to pay for (Concourse D, anyone) for the next decade.  They probably wouldn't even need to obtain any more gates... what they have would probably be more than adequate and they could occasionally use the common use gates if necessary.

December 11, 2017 9:27 am

United is said to mull investing in regional airline ExpressJet

BLOOMBERG

 

United Continental Holdings Inc. is exploring a deal to invest in regional airline ExpressJet to boost its pipeline of pilots and expand service in the eastern and midwestern U.S., people familiar with the matter said.

 

 

MORE:

http://www.crainscleveland.com/article/20171211/news/145231/united-said-mull-investing-regional-airline-expressjet

 

Is United still paying for Concourse D?  Maybe they figure it might be worth it get some revenue from the cost?

Delta has finally increased aircraft size in Cincinnati on a number of flights. All the CRJ200 are gone and we are seeing alot more 717 and larger aircraft on flights. I think Delta realized that CVG is a great city to move alot of the midwest traffic through and get over flow east/west coast traffic flights

 

Good assessment.  I don't think we'd see too much of a reduction in ERJ flying if UA increases flights at CLE, especially if they acquire ExpressJet.  Although ExpressJet does fly some larger regional jets from other stations... maybe some of that could be moved.  One thing for sure is that CLE still has a lot of United frequent flyers... the upgrade lists on the CLE to ORD flights still look like typical hub to hub lists.  So some loyalty to the brand still exists and perhaps that can be exploited.

Cleveland Hopkins in top 10 airports for export growth:

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/kenroberts/2017/12/13/lax-leads-u-s-among-airports-with-greatest-export-growth-8-others-up-more-than-1-billion/#1643947a126a

 

Cleveland Hopkins in top 10 airports for export growth:

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/kenroberts/2017/12/13/lax-leads-u-s-among-airports-with-greatest-export-growth-8-others-up-more-than-1-billion/#1643947a126a

 

 

Nice to see CLE on a list with all those heavyweights! That's really interesting to see the list items (rearview mirrors? Dental floss??) and I hope the local media runs with this bit of info. I'd like to get more background on how export the business has become so successful at these airports specifically.

 

Not nice to see two typos in the article lol. Even with all their supposed financial wisdom Forbes can never seem to hire an editor.

^Cleveland ranks #2--that's great.  I get the medical and aviation stuff, but do we manufacture cell phones and computer chips in CLE? or do final assembly of them? Those two were particularly interesting.

 

^Cleveland ranks #2--that's great.  I get the medical and aviation stuff, but do we manufacture cell phones and computer chips in CLE? or do final assembly of them? Those two were particularly interesting.

 

 

Good question. Well, one thing to consider is that the list isn't in total exports, but percentage increase of exports.

^I don't think that's true.  The list appears to be by increase in total export dollar value.

^I don't think that's true.  The list appears to be by increase in total export dollar value.

 

I think the key word is "increase." But maybe I'm off.

From a longer article in Crain's Cleveland: "Building off the region's momentum, Cleveland Hopkins will continue to see record growth. Included in that growth, and along with Iceland Air and Wow Air's new service beginning in May of 2018, an additional new line of direct service to the European mainland will be announced as the first such flight operating out of an Ohio airport. That flight will enable only a maximum two-stop flight to almost anywhere in the world, enabling more investment in Cleveland by many firms."

 

— Joe Roman, president and CEO, Greater Cleveland Partnership"

^Very interesting...

Any speculations on which airport?

I'd say AMS.

I would think you all get Condor service to Frankfurt. Condor and Lufthansa are code share partners which means all your United, Star Alliance folks could easily use points and get points by using Condor...

I'd say AMS.

 

Agreed. Brussels, AMS, MAD, or Frankfurt seem to be the most logical options. I just hope it isn't a Lisbon, Marseille, or Copenhagen type move.

From a longer article in Crain's Cleveland: "Building off the region's momentum, Cleveland Hopkins will continue to see record growth. Included in that growth, and along with Iceland Air and Wow Air's new service beginning in May of 2018, an additional new line of direct service to the European mainland will be announced as the first such flight operating out of an Ohio airport. That flight will enable only a maximum two-stop flight to almost anywhere in the world, enabling more investment in Cleveland by many firms."

 

— Joe Roman, president and CEO, Greater Cleveland Partnership"

 

What record growth for 2018? Frontier is pulling back ops this summer to expand other hubs. Spirit, JetBlue and Allegiant are holding steady so far. Southwest is adding a seasonal weekend flight to New Orleans. United? Nothing. There's no way that WOW and Icelandair make up for the amount of seats Frontier is removing. I hope I'm wrong but I don't see how CLE grows much in 2018.

 

If he's wrong about record growth why would he be right about international service?

If you look at the article that quote comes from, it is about predictions for the future. I think that quote is not substantive information so much as New Years hopefulness.

 

That said, Hopkins has had record growth in 2017 in terms of passenger volume. There have been numerous articles over the past few months showing this, with some saying that we are in track to surpass ridership from the year united pulled its hub (>9 million)

Unless United's buy into ExpressJet is factored into that prediction. That could really boost CLE. Wonder if the international flight will be United's and linked to a restored mini-hub of sorts?

 

BTW, Joe Roman's quote above makes me very optimistic.

I'm really not being negative, I'm just looking at what the airlines have announced. I know 2017 saw tremendous growth but there haven't been any big announcements for 2018 except for WOW and Icelandair. Unfortunately Frontier has decided to shrink CLE rather decently. Unless load factors are through the roof on existing flights it's going to be hard to grow CLE next year. If we don't start hearing new service announcements in the next few months, CLE's summer schedule will be set. I am rooting for something to happen.

I would love to see the numbers on business travelers vs pleasure travelers.  I know although Cleveland job growth overall has been relatively stagnant, the white collar jobs have been increasing significantly in past decade.  Jobs that require a decent amount of travel.  I, for one, travel very often, and my job isnt even located in Cleveland, even though i live here and travel out of Hopkins.  If Frontier is backing off but the passenger numbers are increasing, would that suggest that the big 3 are seeing more traffic (which are the preferred airlines for business travelers).  One could argue that is a very good thing

I would love to see the numbers on business travelers vs pleasure travelers.  I know although Cleveland job growth overall has been relatively stagnant, the white collar jobs have been increasing significantly in past decade.  Jobs that require a decent amount of travel.  I, for one, travel very often, and my job isnt even located in Cleveland, even though i live here and travel out of Hopkins.  If Frontier is backing off but the passenger numbers are increasing, would that suggest that the big 3 are seeing more traffic (which are the preferred airlines for business travelers).  One could argue that is a very good thing

 

If Hopkins even has numbers that are almost level with 2017 during this summer, I think that's a big win for Hopkins and will convince others to start service. We'll see.

 

Kennedy has been very quiet since the Icelanders announcements. Hopkins should still have more destinations than it currently has. Some new construction/modifications outside of facelifts would be nice too. Hope the in-fighting with City Hall is just "gotcha" PD stuff.

Annual passenger volume at @GoingPlacesCLE tops 9M for the first time since 2013, the last year the airport was a United hub. https://t.co/f0tj9slna0 via @CrainsCleveland

While great news, how much of this business would have flown out of CAN a year or two ago? Anyone feel like providing combined numbers for both airports

^Comparing CLE and CAK over the last seven years:

 

Year ... CLE ...... CAK (boardings in thousands)

2011 - 4,387.2  808.5

2012 - 4,314.9  905.7

2013 - 4,399.6  847.3

2014 - 3,651.2  767.5

2015 - 3,871.6  755.7

2016 - 4,058.8  681.8

2017 - 4,460.0  640.0(est.)

 

Note: these are Govt. numbers and understate the airports' totals by the amount of private and charter traffic.

 

CAK boomed when they had the only cheap fares around and Utica oil/gas was hot. When Utica cooled and CLE got the budget carriers, CAK declined.

CAK built their marketing around trying to undercut CLE, so I am not gonna shed any tears now that the traffic is starting to go the other way.

Visualization of the above data:

 

 

 

Another way in which CLE will have “record growth” in 2018 is the aircraft that airlines, namely American, Delta, and United, are using. Frontier has been using only their 230 seat A321s on all routes, an upgrade over A319s and 320s. The legacy carriers have also upgraded many flights from CRJ2s (50 seats) to E170s (70 seats), E175s (75 seats) to E190s (100 seats), and 717s (110 seats) to A319/A320s (126-160 seats), while maintaining the same number of daily flights. Small equipment upgrades will add up this year. And the new transatlantic destination(s) will add to all of this, and will certainly attract those who would rather not endure the transport nightmare of New York airports, and would rather connect in Europe.

WOW air cuts fares to introduce Cleveland service

http://www.crainscleveland.com/article/20180123/news/149526/wow-air-cuts-fares-introduce-cleveland-service

Cleveland Hopkins airport renovates customs area in advance of new Iceland flights

CLEVELAND, Ohio - The international arrivals area at Cleveland Hopkins airport is getting a facelift, in anticipation of thousands of international travelers passing through the airport on new flights from Reykjavik, Iceland.

 

It's good news for travelers who found the previous customs process time-consuming and cumbersome.

 

Buses, which transported arriving passengers from the secure side of the airport to baggage claim, won't be needed any more. Instead, the airport plans to reinstall Transportation Security Administration screening machines inside the customs area, allowing international passengers to pass through security before exiting through Concourse A.

 

http://www.cleveland.com/travel/index.ssf/2018/01/cleveland_hopkins_airport_plan.html

Cleveland Hopkins airport renovates customs area in advance of new Iceland flights

 

This is a start.  Ideally a traveler should be able to pass through the FIS and have the choice of exiting to the city *or* returning immediately to the sterile area for an onward flight without a second inspection.  The TSA doesn't like that second choice; but this shows why it's a mistake to let the police set the rules.

^Going through security to exit is ridiculous. But at what airport in the US can you NOT go through security if you want to board another flight after leaving customs?

^Going through security to exit is ridiculous. But at what airport in the US can you NOT go through security if you want to board another flight after leaving customs?

 

TSA to exit is ridiculous--almost as bad as a bus. 

 

You are correct--normally you'd have to clear TSA after customs.  The only exceptions are those countries with FCIS units abroad (Canada and Ireland), where you clear immigration and customs before boarding the flight to the US.

 

^Comparing CLE and CAK over the last seven years:

 

Year ... CLE ...... CAK (boardings in thousands)

2011 - 4,387.2  808.5

2012 - 4,314.9  905.7

2013 - 4,399.6  847.3

2014 - 3,651.2  767.5

2015 - 3,871.6  755.7

2016 - 4,058.8  681.8

2017 - 4,460.0  640.0(est.)

 

Note: these are Govt. numbers and understate the airports' totals by the amount of private and charter traffic.

 

CAK boomed when they had the only cheap fares around and Utica oil/gas was hot. When Utica cooled and CLE got the budget carriers, CAK declined.

 

Official numbers for 2017 came out, boardings at CAK were 630,000, slightly under my estimate.

Cleveland Hopkins charges airlines among the highest fees of U.S. airports

http://www.cleveland.com/travel/index.ssf/2018/02/cleveland_hopkins_charges_airl.html#incart_river_index

Cleveland Hopkins charges airlines among the highest fees of U.S. airports

http://www.cleveland.com/travel/index.ssf/2018/02/cleveland_hopkins_charges_airl.html#incart_river_index

 

Most interesting to me about the article is the fact that United's cost per enplanement skews the numbers quite a bit.  If one removes those numbers, the average cost per enplanement is closer to the norm (but still on the higher side).

New Cleveland Hopkins director predicts growth, more flights to Europe

http://www.cleveland.com/travel/index.ssf/2018/02/new_cleveland_hopkins_director.html

Updated master plan in the works as well. May include plans for terminal expansion to the south and further renovations on the customs facility.

http://www.cleveland.com/travel/index.ssf/2018/02/cleveland_hopkins_to_update_ma.html

Cleveland Hopkins charges airlines among the highest fees of U.S. airports

http://www.cleveland.com/travel/index.ssf/2018/02/cleveland_hopkins_charges_airl.html#incart_river_index

 

The headline of that story is very misleading.  The charges are high *IF* you happen to be United Airlines; the other guys pay much less.

CommutAir likes Northeast Ohio landing spot

 

Article posted at:

https://www.urbanohio.com/forum/index.php/topic,15104.msg895927.html#msg895927

CommutAir likes Northeast Ohio landing spot

 

Article posted at:

https://www.urbanohio.com/forum/index.php/topic,15104.msg895927.html#msg895927

 

Love the HQ/employment aspect but HATE the cramped/3-seats-across/rear engine ERJ145 planes CommutAir flies exclusively - especially when United is switching to the vastly superior, spacious, more modern ERJ175 (4-seats-across, engines on wing) on so many routes. Let's hope that their local presence doesn't leave CLE with a disproportionate # of flights on this smallish plane - especially on routes like Cleveland to Chicago / Newark / Boston / Houston - all of which still have this equipment on flights daily - and shouldn't have to.... After hundreds of flights on them over the years, I now actively avoid this plane when booking... 

Heads up for anyone flying this President's day week--dropped my girlfriend off early this morning and ALL the onsite parking facilities are full, with security guards blocking the entrances.  Valet still seemed to be open. 

 

Maybe it's time for the city to sell some bonds and rebuild the long-term parking ramp on the Orange surface lot?

 

Love the HQ/employment aspect but HATE the cramped/3-seats-across/rear engine ERJ145 planes CommutAir flies exclusively - especially when United is switching to the vastly superior, spacious, more modern ERJ175 (4-seats-across, engines on wing) on so many routes. Let's hope that their local presence doesn't leave CLE with a disproportionate # of flights on this smallish plane - especially on routes like Cleveland to Chicago / Newark / Boston / Houston - all of which still have this equipment on flights daily - and shouldn't have to.... After hundreds of flights on them over the years, I now actively avoid this plane when booking... 

 

Sadly, you'll be out of luck... the ExpressJet maintenance base that is in Cleveland is for the ERJ140/5 aircraft type, so while that is here, there will be plenty of that aircraft type going between CLE and any route ExpressJet dba United Express serves out of CLE (IAH, MKE just to name a couple).  CommutAir doesn't fly much to CLE right now, it doesn't seem, and their maintenance base is in Vermont(?) so their fleet plans shouldn't affect much Hopkins flying.

 

I'm not a huge fan of the 1+2 seating, but at least it beats a CRJ-200.  I think that one takes the cake for the worst 50 seater out there.

For those who can access WSJ - here's a fascinating read about the Charlotte airport... and what dehubbing, or the fear of it, can do.... Their approach is the opposite of what CLE has been doing.. and is really almost offensive to travelers... at least in $$$ - but productive.

 

(For those who can't access - it basically explains - finally - why a metro much smaller than NEO, with a modest # of local passengers but huge connecting #s - has 700 flights a day to 170 destinations, far more than they should have - 90% on American with almost no low price competition - but extremely high fares, to boot - and why the CLT airport wouldn't have it any other way and does nothing to irritate American. They don't want to be the next dehubbed Pittsburgh, it's said, so they do everything to limit competition... Good for American due to extra low passenger costs - their most profitable hub. Great for business travelers, connection-wise.. Horrible for consumers, cost-wise.)

 

https://www.wsj.com/articles/why-an-american-airlines-monopoly-works-for-charlotte-1519225740

 

 

I hadn't seen this concept  that would have turned the Concourse C connecting tunnel to Concourse D into a Rock N Roll experience!  Great idea. What if Concourse D was turned into a mini RRHF Museum Annex?  This could be a great space for passengers with time to kill which could entice visitors to come back and  further explore the main museum.  This would give the airport a destination within it's campus.  The link below has some conceptual renderings of the tunnel.

 

https://populous.com/project/cleveland-hopkins-international-airport/

 

 

360 Projection ExperienceSlide 1 of 2

 

Tunnel ExperienceSlide 2 of 2

Rock and Roll Hall of Fame Concept

Cleveland Hopkins Airport Rock and Roll Hall of Fame Connector

ClevelandConcept

Many artists describe the power of music and rhythm being about the space in between. It’s the sound of the music, but it’s also everything else that defines the cultural experiences surrounding the music: the obsessed fans associated with Beatle Mania in London, the anticipation and energy just before an opening act in Berlin, or the excitement of an Alan Freed radio broadcast in Cleveland.

 

Populous’ Rock and Roll Hall of Fame concept for Cleveland Hopkins International Airport (CLE) aims to capture the emotional and gravitational quality of Rock and Roll through capturing and celebrating the elements of Rock and Roll music that resonate with us at a human level. The experience takes the passenger through the moments, places and events that have shaped the story of Rock and Roll.

 

360 Projection Experience: Visitors are immersed in a 360-degree projection experience as they arrive “on stage” for a dramatic first impression. The anticipation and energy just before the main act is conveyed before the visitor makes their way into the tunnel experience.

 

Media Gateway: The Media Gateways serve as engaging and playful storytelling devices. One minute, there could be an artful expression of the Cleveland skyline, the next minute Elvis or Mick Jagger could be dancing to greet you as you enter into the tunnel. The Media Gateways also function as vehicles for wayfinding and advertising.

 

Tunnel Experience: As visitors make their way through the tunnel, they are immersed in an artful and interpretive projection display of various “in-between” moments of Rock and Roll.

For those who can access WSJ - here's a fascinating read about the Charlotte airport... and what dehubbing, or the fear of it, can do.... Their approach is the opposite of what CLE has been doing.. and is really almost offensive to travelers... at least in $$$ - but productive.

 

(For those who can't access - it basically explains - finally - why a metro much smaller than NEO, with a modest # of local passengers but huge connecting #s - has 700 flights a day to 170 destinations, far more than they should have - 90% on American with almost no low price competition - but extremely high fares, to boot - and why the CLT airport wouldn't have it any other way and does nothing to irritate American. They don't want to be the next dehubbed Pittsburgh, it's said, so they do everything to limit competition... Good for American due to extra low passenger costs - their most profitable hub. Great for business travelers, connection-wise.. Horrible for consumers, cost-wise.)

 

https://www.wsj.com/articles/why-an-american-airlines-monopoly-works-for-charlotte-1519225740

 

Limiting competition for one corporation to the expense of people who live there. Just another reason not to live in the back@sswards Carolinas.

I hadn't seen this concept  that would have turned the Concourse C connecting tunnel to Concourse D into a Rock N Roll experience!  Great idea. What if Concourse D was turned into a mini RRHF Museum Annex?  This could be a great space for passengers with time to kill which could entice visitors to come back and  further explore the main museum.  This would give the airport a destination within it's campus.  The link below has some conceptual renderings of the tunnel.

 

https://populous.com/project/cleveland-hopkins-international-airport/

 

Nice.  And on Earth 2, the Rockometer's needle flickers a little more toward "High".

 

http://blog.cleveland.com/cribnotes/2008/09/the_rockometer_one_proposal_fo.html

Agree the Carolinas are so weak.  Other than mild temps, i dont understand the appeal.  I feel like the entire culture is a follower culture. 

 

That being said, CLT is the second largest AA hub, is it not? I feel like they would dehub Philly before CLT.

Loving that Rock Hall proposal. Cleveland does not do nearly enough to capitalize on the RRHOF.