1 hour ago, Frmr CLEder said:

Just getting to ORD from the loop is such a challenge. If you have a rental car, you need to make sure your departure is mid-day or late at night, otherwise you risk missing your flight.

 

I've had similar waits for baggage at EWR, ATL, LAX and SFO at night and at LAS in the middle of the day. Now, if I can, I carry on.

I used to travel extensively on business and I must admit, while I've "observed" missed landings over the years, the only one that I "personally experienced" was at CLE; rear wheels touched down, the pilot gunned the engines and we were once again airborne.

I’ve been on no more than 50 flights in my life and 2 of those ended with go-arounds (one CLE-SFO on UA, one at CLE on a DL flight from LGA). 
 

I really like the idea of a billion-dollar terminal to compete with nearby airports such as PIT, but it may not be necessary to demolish everything. Concourse D should be retained, even if it ends up becoming a museum or something other than a terminal...

1 hour ago, Cleburger said:

 

Conversely, I HATE when I have a 40 minute flight from ORD that lands at 10:45 pm, and wait an HOUR for my luggage.   Very skeleton crews working CLE these days.  

Just remember, the rampers and baggage handlers are employed (or contracted) by the airlines, not CLE. If you have complaints about baggage delays (and lord knows I know what you mean) there’s little that CLE can be blamed for there. 

It would be really cool if more regional airports like Cleveland, Milwaukee, St. L, Pitt, Cincy, KC, Austin, New Orleans, Hartford, Omaha, Sacramento, Long Beach, etc etc etc could set up their own network with a few airlines. Like if Airlines had to buy into the network to get on the routes. 

On 10/30/2019 at 7:37 PM, Boomerang_Brian said:

Can you do TSA Pre application interviews at Hopkins? I thought I saw signs for it, but it isn’t showing up on the TSA Pre application web page. 

 

I’ve been trying to get my wife to apply for years and she has a return flight that gets in Monday at 3 - I figured that would be a perfect time for her to go. I hope my plan doesn’t fall through. 

 

On 10/30/2019 at 8:56 PM, roman totale XVII said:

^ Yeah it’s at Middleburg Heights. If she’s flying international, she’ll be able to do it at immigration at the kiosk when she arrives. Alternatively, any international airport should be able to do it even if you’re flying domestic. 

 

My wife did her TSA Pre interview at Boston Logan this morning before her return to CLE. She said it was easy. The only hassle was that she was flying out of C and the interview location is in A. A bit of a walk, but otherwise easy. 

 

One important note - the new “Compliant” Ohio Driver’s Licenses are NOT the “Enhanced Driver’s Licenses” that you need in order to apply for TSA Pre. OH license is acceptable as ID, but you also need separate proof of citizenship. It’s easiest to just use your passport. They have a list of acceptable documentation on the application page. 

 

(Updated for clarification: the new Ohio “compliant” license IS what you need in order to fly on commercial airlines starting next year. If you have a “standard” license, you will need a separate form of ID for flying (typically your passport). My previous comments were strictly related to application for TSA Pre, not use of TSA Pre.)

Edited November 6, 20195 yr by Boomerang_Brian
Updated for clarification

I always travel with my passport, even domestically and I keep a copy of the TSA Pre letter, containing the Pre number in my passport sleeve.

Edited November 5, 20195 yr by Frmr CLEder

Sun Country Airlines enters Cleveland Hopkins market with flights to Minneapolis-St. Paul

 

https://www.cleveland.com/business/2019/11/sun-country-airlines-enters-cleveland-hopkins-market-with-flights-to-minneapolis-st-paul.html

I have to assume that the Valspar acquisition by SW has resulted in more CLE/MSP traffic.

1 hour ago, Frmr CLEder said:

I have to assume that the Valspar acquisition by SW has resulted in more CLE/MSP traffic.

 

That's what I thought of the moment I saw that news. I wonder how long that is going to continue? Maybe for another few years....

2 hours ago, Frmr CLEder said:

I have to assume that the Valspar acquisition by SW has resulted in more CLE/MSP traffic.

 

True. However, I'm wondering how much business travel will actually take place on a twice weekly Sun Country route. I would guess most SW business travelers would either chose one of the ~4 daily flights on Delta, or be on a company jet. I guess if employees Valspar employees are transferred to Cleveland, a low cost Sunday/Friday flight is a good option for getting back home to visit family.

 

Regardless, more low cost options is always good!

1 hour ago, KJP said:

 

That's what I thought of the moment I saw that news. I wonder how long that is going to continue? Maybe for another few years....

I suspect that when selecting new routes, the airlines simply look at the raw numbers, without necessarily giving consideration to the reasons behind them. They've probably seen growth in the Market and consider it an expansion opportunity, not realizing that it may be shortlived once SW consolidates its operations. 

I'd say its more of a desire for Sun Country to enter CLE and Frontier dropping the route than the Valspar deal. Frontier is dropping the route (4x weekly), so it gives Sun Country an opportunity to connect CLE to their hub (2x weekly). The Valspar deal makes it all sweeter.

CLE should be turned over to the Port Authority or sold and privatized.

 

The City is incapable of management oversight with security breaches, inappropriate use of assets, failure to follow FAA regulations, etc., etc., etc. It also has insufficient financial resources to attract international carriers and I'm afraid the airport will never achieve its full potential under City of Cleveland control.

Edited November 6, 20195 yr by Frmr CLEder

"CLE should be turned over to the Port Authority or sold and privatized."

 

The Cleveland Port Authority has zero experience running an airport. The majority of its board is appointed by the Mayor. I don't see how that is good idea. The airport should stay in the city's hands. We just need better leadership and management. Don't destroy the city further by taking away one its last remaining big assets. The suburbs are just drooling to get their grubby hands on it.

Then its leadership, including that of the City, need to be held accountable for its failures.

So there you have it, the results speak for themselves and its displayed in the airport's recent ranking.

On 11/3/2019 at 9:55 AM, Boomerang_Brian said:

 

2. Concourse D was built for regional jets. It cannot handle the larger airplanes used for international routes.

 

 

Concourse D can handle, 737s and the airbus equivalents can service the D concourse.  I've been on a 737 that has come into D.  The lead up to the gate even has markings for 737s and E JETS (135/145/170/175/190/195.)

 

It cannot handle 757s and up.

On 11/5/2019 at 2:39 PM, Frmr CLEder said:

I have to assume that the Valspar acquisition by SW has resulted in more CLE/MSP traffic.

 

On a Sunday and a Friday.  Business Travelers high days are Sunday Nights, Monday Mornings, Tuesday Morning and Thursday nights.

Quote

The flights, on Sundays and Fridays, start May 29. Fares start at $59 each way

 

This is a leisure route.

The resurrected Wow is now PLAY.

 

https://simpleflying.com/wow-air-relaunch-as-play/

6 hours ago, MyTwoSense said:

 

Concourse D can handle, 737s and the airbus equivalents can service the D concourse.  I've been on a 737 that has come into D.  The lead up to the gate even has markings for 737s and E JETS (135/145/170/175/190/195.)

 

It cannot handle 757s and up.

 

Wouldn’t you agree that only being able to handle up to 737 / Airbus 320 means that Concourse D would not be appropriate for an international terminal? That was my main point. 

43 minutes ago, Boomerang_Brian said:

 

Wouldn’t you agree that only being able to handle up to 737 / Airbus 320 means that Concourse D would not be appropriate for an international terminal? That was my main point. 

You could remove some gates in the front and develop the other side of the building to accomodate jetways.  This way, A330, B767, B787 could use the front.  There are ways to do it if demand is there

Also the air carriers are looking at medium markets for international business expansion; Airbus recently killed its A380 program.

 

That has Airbus, Boeing and the engine manufacturers focused on smaller, more fuel efficient aircraft for the future of international air travel into these medium markets (Airbus A321XLR).

 

Will Cleveland be positioned to take advantage of the opportunity?

Edited November 13, 20195 yr by Frmr CLEder

9 hours ago, MyTwoSense said:

 

Concourse D can handle, 737s and the airbus equivalents can service the D concourse.  I've been on a 737 that has come into D.  The lead up to the gate even has markings for 737s and E JETS (135/145/170/175/190/195.)

 

It cannot handle 757s and up.

 

Anyone have a sense of how hard / expensive it would be to reconfigure the terminal to be able to handle bigger planes?  Seems like a no-brainer long-term, though I don't really know how these things work... 

Is the height of Concourse D's main floor down to the apron that much different than Councourse C?  If the height is much lower, it may cause the jetways to rise at too steep an angle to reach the higher wide-body jets.

14 minutes ago, bjk said:

Is the height of Concourse D's main floor down to the apron that much different than Councourse C?  If the height is much lower, it may cause the jetways to rise at too steep an angle to reach the higher wide-body jets.

You could zigzag the jetway which allows for a more moderate grade to the door. Ive seen this done

On 10/26/2019 at 4:07 PM, BelievelandD1 said:

There isn’t a reason we shouldn’t have direct Seattle in Alaska and direct Montreal on Air Canada.  Both of those are large markets and hubs for each airlines. 

I'd like to see Air Canada upgrade their service at CLE.  They used to have non-stops from CLE to Toronto and Montreal on mainline jets at one time.  Now, they just have a couple puddle jumpers to Toronto.  

48 minutes ago, skiwest said:

I'd like to see Air Canada upgrade their service at CLE.  They used to have non-stops from CLE to Toronto and Montreal on mainline jets at one time.  Now, they just have a couple puddle jumpers to Toronto.  

 

And it's a crap seat on a 30 year old T-prop that takes you into YYZ F concourse (about a 3 mile walk to FCIS) is routinely up near $1000.   

^ no more Dash 8's - not that the 50 seat CRJ-100/200 is much better of an experience, but that's the equipment showing on Air Canada website for CLE-YYZ now.

 

Edited November 8, 20195 yr by buckeye1

13 hours ago, buckeye1 said:

^ no more Dash 8's - not that the 50 seat CRJ-100/200 is much better of an experience, but that's the equipment showing on Air Canada website for CLE-YYZ now.

 

Must have been recent--because I was on a Dash 8 earlier this year.  Chose that middle rear seat with plenty of legroom in the aisle ?

 

On 11/7/2019 at 7:18 AM, Boomerang_Brian said:

 

Wouldn’t you agree that only being able to handle up to 737 / Airbus 320 means that Concourse D would not be appropriate for an international terminal? That was my main point. 

 

No, considering the terminal would need to be reconstructed to handle larger aircraft, an I/C facility along with adding the connection to the main terminal as initially planned.

On 11/7/2019 at 9:34 AM, ML11 said:

 

Anyone have a sense of how hard / expensive it would be to reconfigure the terminal to be able to handle bigger planes?  Seems like a no-brainer long-term, though I don't really know how these things work... 

that is a good question.  I just hope the space can be used to move airlines around as the airport is being remastered.

 

There may be no need for massive reconfiguration of D. Airbus has developed the A321XLR, single-aisle aircraft, with more efficient engines and a range of up to 4700 nm. Rumor has it that international carriers are looking at these newer generation aircraft for international service to medium markets. They see growth potential there.

 

Everytime I see/hear one of the Lufthansa A380s fly over my building I cringe. My condo is aligned with runway 8R/26L at MIA.

Edited November 13, 20195 yr by Frmr CLEder

On 11/13/2019 at 5:36 PM, Frmr CLEder said:

There may be no need for massive reconfiguration of D. Airbus has developed the A321XLR, single-aisle aircraft, with more efficient engines and a range of up to 4700 nm. Rumor has it that international carriers are looking at these newer generation aircraft for international service to medium markets. They see growth potential there.

 

Everytime I see/hear one of the Lufthansa A380s fly over my building I cringe. My condo is aligned with runway 8R/26L at MIA.

To include Customs and it's facilities there would need to be a massive renovation.  People will want to exit directly not traverse the D concourse, then tunnel, then C just to exit the airport.  The main terminal would need to have a ticketing and baggage area for international carriers.  The A321XLR is the equivalent to the 737-900.  

^Yes and more importantly, after clearing immigration and customs you don't want to be forced to go through security if you're NOT flying out of CLE after landing there---which is the set up right now with the FIS under A.

All of this is assuming there will be major international carriers and destinations entering the NEO market; not just the current Toronto, Cancun, Punta Cana junkets.

 

It doesn't matter which airport (US or overseas), C&I is isolated, inconvenient and requires a lot of extra effort for entry and exit. The easiest C&I I've found have been in Dakar, Senegal and Barcelona, Esp, which are relatively simple.

Edited November 15, 20195 yr by Frmr CLEder

On 11/7/2019 at 12:36 AM, MyTwoSense said:

 

On a Sunday and a Friday.  Business Travelers high days are Sunday Nights, Monday Mornings, Tuesday Morning and Thursday nights.

 

This is a leisure route.

As a frequent business traveler, I travel when I need to be at a location, not based upon some pre-arranged airline schedule. For weeklong commitments S, M to T, F makes sense.

What is more concerning is the rapid increase in discounted leisure route traffic. While it increases air traffic and may provide additional employment opportunities, it is not, inand of itself, a driver of economic development.

Edited November 15, 20195 yr by Frmr CLEder

On 11/14/2019 at 9:31 PM, MyTwoSense said:

To include Customs and it's facilities there would need to be a massive renovation.  People will want to exit directly not traverse the D concourse, then tunnel, then C just to exit the airport.  The main terminal would need to have a ticketing and baggage area for international carriers.  The A321XLR is the equivalent to the 737-900.  

The best bet for CLE and international is on a Star Alliance carrier - United, Lufthansa....CLE is home to a large Star loyalty base and would do fine especially if UA had a bit more feed into Hopkins. A four day a week B767-300ER to Frankfurt or Munich would work fine with proper incentives and commitments from local business

I am just so tired of the fate of CLE being based upon UAL. They've screwed the airport twice. CLE really needs to source carriers that have more integrity.

3 minutes ago, Frmr CLEder said:

I am just so tired of the fate of CLE being based upon UAL. They've screwed the airport twice. CLE really needs to source carriers that have more integrity.

No other carrier is going to step in the market in a meaningful way because UAL owns the market and would retaliate.  Thats why they never did anything with Concourse D. By making debt service payments and routine maintenence, they effectively mothballed a source of gate space. Plus there is a loyal Star Alliance cadre of passengers from which to draw

I get it.

 

I'm just anti-UAL, because of their two pull-outs.  Loved Continental though.

Edited November 20, 20195 yr by Frmr CLEder

11 minutes ago, Frmr CLEder said:

I get it.

 

I'm just anti-UAL, because of their two pull-outs.  Loved Continental though.

The first pull-out was due to the end of deregulation. Before then, UAL did not have route authority from Chicago to Atlanta an Florida.  They did from Cleveland thanks to the merger with Capital Airlines. They fed alot of traffic from the midwest and also Pennsylvania to fly west and south. Once regulation ended, the reason for flying that DC-8 from Grand Rapids to Cleveland ended

39 minutes ago, Frmr CLEder said:

I am just so tired of the fate of CLE being based upon UAL. They've screwed the airport twice. CLE really needs to source carriers that have more integrity.

 Don't blame United for the second one.  The morons that approved the Continental-United merger screwed CLE.  It resulted in United having way too many hubs.  With Cleveland being the smallest hub and very close to Chicago, it was the first to go.

^Don't blame UA for the second one? The Dept of Justice didn't tell UA to close Cleveland. It was entirely the idea, objective, desire, and decision of United to screw Cleveland. The US gov't didn't force the merger, United wanted it.

 

 

29 minutes ago, Pugu said:

^Don't blame UA for the second one? The Dept of Justice didn't tell UA to close Cleveland. It was entirely the idea, objective, desire, and decision of United to screw Cleveland. The US gov't didn't force the merger, United wanted it.

 

 

I remembet the Ohio AG stated that the hub was profitable in 2009. I think its in the Agreement.

It was obvious United was not going to keep 9 hubs after the merger.

Edited November 20, 20195 yr by skiwest

I can't think of another "hub airport" in the US that was decommissioned twice by the same airline.

The first time was bad enough. I was living on the Upper West side of Manhattan. Continental was at EWR. When they opened CLE, I was ecstatic; I even opened a Chase OnePass MC account. After the merger, I was sure that CLE would close with ORD and EWR 1 1/2 hours away. But it has left such a bad taste in my mouth. To this day, I will not fly UAL.

Edited November 20, 20195 yr by Frmr CLEder

1 hour ago, skiwest said:

 Don't blame United for the second one.  The morons that approved the Continental-United merger screwed CLE.  It resulted in United having way too many hubs.  With Cleveland being the smallest hub and very close to Chicago, it was the first to go.

 

2 hours ago, B767PILOT said:

No other carrier is going to step in the market in a meaningful way because UAL owns the market and would retaliate.  Thats why they never did anything with Concourse D. By making debt service payments and routine maintenence, they effectively mothballed a source of gate space. Plus there is a loyal Star Alliance cadre of passengers from which to draw

I torn on this.  I don't think it 100% true.  There are business routes they have given up , such as CLE-BOS.

 

The mothballing of D was solely for the purpose of keeping another carrier from expanding with several banks of flights, example, Virgin America, now Alaska and Hawaiian.  American increases services here and there on cash routes to LGA, PHL & DCA.  But Southwest has done nothing here.

1 hour ago, skiwest said:

It was obvious United was not going to keep 9 hubs after the merger.

 

It was obvious WAY before the merger, despite any lies UA may have to told the DOJ. The entire point of airline mergers --UA & CO, DL & NW, US and AA---is to gain market share and increase profits by cutting routes and jobs and forcing more passengers through fewer hubs.  The minute CO saved UA through the merger, UA had already had well-developed plans to kill its CLE hub. Yes, the Ohio AG made some noise but that was utterly pointless.  The AG said, you must maintain routes and jobs for two years. UA said sure, no problem! Cause it takes at least two years to integrate the two companies. It even took longer than two years. But, once in the clear, the ax fell. The Ohio AG thing was totally meaningless-- not sure if was a real sincere attempt at something (didn't seem like it) or just a publicity stunt (probably).

Doesn't matter, who did/said what to whom, in the end, the result is the same.

 

UAL pulled the rug out from under CLE not once, but twice.

 

There are too many other options (American, Delta, Southwest).  I'd walk first.

Edited November 20, 20195 yr by Frmr CLEder

7 hours ago, Pugu said:

 

It was obvious WAY before the merger, despite any lies UA may have to told the DOJ. The entire point of airline mergers --UA & CO, DL & NW, US and AA---is to gain market share and increase profits by cutting routes and jobs and forcing more passengers through fewer hubs.  The minute CO saved UA through the merger, UA had already had well-developed plans to kill its CLE hub. Yes, the Ohio AG made some noise but that was utterly pointless.  The AG said, you must maintain routes and jobs for two years. UA said sure, no problem! Cause it takes at least two years to integrate the two companies. It even took longer than two years. But, once in the clear, the ax fell. The Ohio AG thing was totally meaningless-- not sure if was a real sincere attempt at something (didn't seem like it) or just a publicity stunt (probably).

The AG Agreement wasnt meaningless.  There were actual targets that had to be met in the event that United wanted to start winding up.  However, its all in the accounting, isnt it?  United, simply by reducing flights, decreases the economies of scale while fixed costs remain pretty much the same. Profitability starts to shrink

17 minutes ago, Frmr CLEder said:

Doesn't matter, who did/said what to whom, in the end, the result is the same.

 

UAL pulled the rug out from under CLE not once, but twice.

 

There are too many other options (American, Delta, Southwest).  I'd walk first.

United may have pulled out by the mid eighties, but Continental replaced them. Remember, that first drawdown was the result of a major market reallignment due to deregulation. Airlines were throwing darts at the map lol. We even had a, DFW hub