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Looks like the Sheraton is finally coming down next month.   City has hired a contractor.   Sad!  

 

Sheraton airport hotel at Cleveland Hopkins coming down next month to make way for more parking

 

CLEVELAND, Ohio – The long-neglected Sheraton Cleveland Airport Hotel will be demolished next month to make way for more parking.

The city in July signed a contract with Cleveland-based Baumann Enterprises to bring down the building, located just southeast of the terminal.

 

https://www.cleveland.com/travel/2024/09/sheraton-airport-hotel-at-cleveland-hopkins-coming-down-next-month-to-make-way-for-more-parking.html?utm_campaign=clevelanddotcom_sf&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook&fbclid=IwY2xjawFVCupleHRuA2FlbQIxMQABHU3EBrQZbUc0kG5oxRE5KuN29j8PU-1QcH395kWa9s4OVmloh0W118ot-g_aem_oSkAMIKPe71Bh1w8AEuWBg

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Cleveland Hopkins airport falls on annual passenger satisfaction list

 

Cleveland Hopkins International Airport fell a bit in the latest passenger satisfaction rankings for U.S. and Canadian airports.

 

That’s according to the 2024 North America Airport Satisfaction Study conducted by J.D. Power, which indicated that the Cleveland airport fell from No. 13 on the 2023 list to last among the 15 ranked “medium” airports (those with 4.5 million to 9.9 million passengers per year).

 

Indianapolis International Airport stayed atop the national rankings in the medium category, followed by Jacksonville International Airport and Southwest Florida International Airport.

 

More below:

https://www.bizjournals.com/cleveland/news/2024/09/18/jd-power-airport-satisfaction-hopkins.html

 

cleveland-hopkins-airport.jpg

"You don't just walk into a bar and mix it up by calling a girl fat" - buildingcincinnati speaking about new forumers

If CLE exceeds 10M this year, I assume it will then be in the "large" category and perhaps will fare better.

CLE needs to take a lesson from PIT and their take-no-prisoners airport director... I've read about her before, but she's, well,  impressive - and CLE needs someone like her. New terminal. Key international flights. Somewhat smaller market. Somewhat fewer passengers. Far better service (to prob 20+ more destinations, Iceland... London)  Her explanation of the benefits of the regional airport authority that runs the airport vs the city appointees running CLE should be a wakeup call to all of us. 

 

Great interview about new terminal and service (Ireland?!) right here..

 

https://www.wtae.com/article/built-by-pittsburgh-for-pittsburgh-4-the-record-looks-at-future-of-pittsburgh-intl-airport/62257194

 

And the director's explanation of airport authority benefits here -

https://blueskypit.com/cassotis-viewpoint-governance-structure-matters-especially-for-airports/

 

 

On 9/23/2024 at 10:05 PM, eyehrtfood said:

CLE needs to take a lesson from PIT and their take-no-prisoners airport director... I've read about her before, but she's, well,  impressive - and CLE needs someone like her. New terminal. Key international flights. Somewhat smaller market. Somewhat fewer passengers. Far better service (to prob 20+ more destinations, Iceland... London)  Her explanation of the benefits of the regional airport authority that runs the airport vs the city appointees running CLE should be a wakeup call to all of us. 

 

Great interview about new terminal and service (Ireland?!) right here..

 

https://www.wtae.com/article/built-by-pittsburgh-for-pittsburgh-4-the-record-looks-at-future-of-pittsburgh-intl-airport/62257194

 

And the director's explanation of airport authority benefits here -

https://blueskypit.com/cassotis-viewpoint-governance-structure-matters-especially-for-airports/

 

 

Cleveland deserve good leadership such a large region and the airport does not reflect that currently. We are nervous in Cincinnati, CVG is losing are ball busting airport director next year. Candace might look like a sweet church lady, but she has turned our airport around after Delta skipped town. With Cargo up, Amazon Prime selecting CVG as HQ for Prime Air. New Service to LHR from BA. Continued service to CDG from DL. Air Canda bringing in Montreal. Newer service from Alaska, Breeze, SW, and more routes/destinations from Frontier, Allegiant, and American. I just hope we dont lose the momentum with new leadership...

I suppose the jury is still out on CLE director Francis, but so far I am not impressed.

good on CVG for getting that Montreal flight.  Ive been wondering when they would pursue CLE, as i dont like connecting thru detroit or Philly to get there.  There is really no reason they are going to CVG and not CLE...so bad on the CLE leadership for not landing that route (yet).  Similar to SLC or SEA, those are hubs who see a spoke to a mid market like CMH, CLE, CVG and they usually are all added at a similar time.  

17 minutes ago, BelievelandD1 said:

good on CVG for getting that Montreal flight.  Ive been wondering when they would pursue CLE, as i dont like connecting thru detroit or Philly to get there.  There is really no reason they are going to CVG and not CLE...so bad on the CLE leadership for not landing that route (yet).  Similar to SLC or SEA, those are hubs who see a spoke to a mid market like CMH, CLE, CVG and they usually are all added at a similar time.  

The latest announcements out of SLC is CLE is coming back via Delta. Saw that with the big announcement of ICN flight and a third daily to SLC from CVG. 

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Edited by savadams13

I know of at least three groups of people that are flying out of Pittsburgh to get to Vegas for the Browns game this weekend. I guess the flights are much cheaper and more convenient than Cle.

Looks like there is a need of more service in Cle if people are willing to make a 3-4 hour round trip to fly out of Pit.

 

CLE seems to be lagging behind CVG and PIT for some reason.  Both have more INTL service than CLE.  Is leadership at CLE not aggressive enough? 

I will say being in Youngstown, most people here prefer to fly out of PIT versus CLE because it just seems like a better all around airport.  It is very easy to get in and out of, and with the new terminal, it will be that much better.

 

Hopefully CLE gets some drastic improvements in the near future.

Southwest Airlines will eliminate Cleveland to Atlanta route

 

Southwest Airlines plans to eliminate service between Cleveland and Atlanta, part of a wider reduction at the world’s busiest airport.

 

The airline announced this week that it would scale back its flying in Atlanta, eliminating service to 15 cities, including Cleveland. The cuts take effect in April.

 

More below:

https://www.bizjournals.com/cleveland/news/2024/09/27/southwest-airlines-eliminate-atlanta-route.html

"You don't just walk into a bar and mix it up by calling a girl fat" - buildingcincinnati speaking about new forumers

Poor Southwest. They can't draw the business crowds, and budget airlines generally outprice them. 

 

Add that archaic computer software and Jetway Jesus scumbags, and they have a whole slew of issues.

 

And we're all dreading the day they implement seats with supposed extra legroom, which will likely turn out to be the same as today's standard legroom, with economy seats having less on par with Spirit and Frontier misery.

 

Air travel in the US was just never meant to be so cheap, and airlines and consumers keep seeing those reality checks.

15 minutes ago, LibertyBlvd said:

Sadly this will probably remain a surface lot for quite some time.  

 

In other news, I landed yesterday morning from Newark.  There are 12 bag claim conveyors at CLE, including 10-12 on the far west side of the terminal that are never used any longer.   United sent the bags from Toronto, Dulles, Chicago and Newark all to belt #9.   It was quite the clusterF*ck!    I was seriously scratching my head.... 

cleveland.com is now calling the Hopkins reconstruction a $3 billion project.  With 9-10 million passengers a year the airport's positive cash flow is running about $50-60 million a year. 

 

Even if the pax numbers grow to 13.5 million for PAL 5, I don't see how a $3 billion project could be amortized on that level of activity.  Either there is some huge business expansion being secretly promised  or that number (that started a bit over $1 billion) needs to come WAY down.

 

https://www.cleveland.com/news/2024/10/demolition-of-airport-sheraton-marks-beginning-of-much-more-to-come-says-hopkins-director.html

 

 

Remember: It's the Year of the Snake

1 hour ago, Dougal said:

cleveland.com is now calling the Hopkins reconstruction a $3 billion project.  With 9-10 million passengers a year the airport's positive cash flow is running about $50-60 million a year. 

 

Even if the pax numbers grow to 13.5 million for PAL 5, I don't see how a $3 billion project could be amortized on that level of activity.  Either there is some huge business expansion being secretly promised  or that number (that started a bit over $1 billion) needs to come WAY down.

 

https://www.cleveland.com/news/2024/10/demolition-of-airport-sheraton-marks-beginning-of-much-more-to-come-says-hopkins-director.html

 

 

 

I don't think the cash flow is expected to cover the capital cost of the project.  Last I heard, they were in negotiations with the airlines over the landing fees, which will be used to fund the rebuild.

 

"The airlines pay for it"  aka they pass those fees into the ticket prices for people flying thru CLE.

6 hours ago, Dougal said:

cleveland.com is now calling the Hopkins reconstruction a $3 billion project.  With 9-10 million passengers a year the airport's positive cash flow is running about $50-60 million a year. 

 

Even if the pax numbers grow to 13.5 million for PAL 5, I don't see how a $3 billion project could be amortized on that level of activity.  Either there is some huge business expansion being secretly promised  or that number (that started a bit over $1 billion) needs to come WAY down.

 

https://www.cleveland.com/news/2024/10/demolition-of-airport-sheraton-marks-beginning-of-much-more-to-come-says-hopkins-director.html

 

 

What’s the difference between what Cleveland is doing versus mid-sized airports all over the country rebuilding their terminals?

6 hours ago, Dougal said:

cleveland.com is now calling the Hopkins reconstruction a $3 billion project.  With 9-10 million passengers a year the airport's positive cash flow is running about $50-60 million a year. 

 

Even if the pax numbers grow to 13.5 million for PAL 5, I don't see how a $3 billion project could be amortized on that level of activity.  Either there is some huge business expansion being secretly promised  or that number (that started a bit over $1 billion) needs to come WAY down.

 

https://www.cleveland.com/news/2024/10/demolition-of-airport-sheraton-marks-beginning-of-much-more-to-come-says-hopkins-director.html

 

 

Perhaps we should scrap it entirely? The airport is basically fine. Sure it could be better, but a smart investment at 1 billion may very well be a boondoggle at 3 billion. And if these costs are basically just going to get passed on to the passengers through ticket pricing I'd rather have a functional, bare bones, affordable airport than an expensive one with all the bells and whistles.

 

I'm not an expert, so take it with a grain of salt but 3x is huge increase, so scrapping it entirely seems like it should be on the table. 

Edited by Ethan
Billion not million, lol

Every other city revamping their airport is treating it as the rightful first-impression, gateway, tone-setter for visitors. A pride thing. A posturing thing. (If you don't have the flights, at least have the facilities...) 

 

CLE should not scrimp and be the odd city out on this. (If you don't have all the big city flights at least you need big city facilities. You think Columbus and Pittsburgh care about anything other than building the nicest airports possible, no matter the overspending perception some may have? Have you seen Indianapolis' majestic main hall, etc...? Those cities care about more than the $.)

Do you think it matters that much? Dallas, La Guardia, LAX, maybe Denver have pretty unappealing airports but are still heavily used, and I can't see them affecting city perceptions.

 

People are generally in zombie mode in airports as it is.

39 minutes ago, TBideon said:

Do you think it matters that much? Dallas, La Guardia, LAX, maybe Denver have pretty unappealing airports but are still heavily used, and I can't see them affecting city perceptions.

 

People are generally in zombie mode in airports as it is.

Dallas has a newly built terminal D.   LGA was recently re-built.  Denver is actually quite magnificent (I routinely target it for my connections vs O'Hare).  

 

Also these are cities that don't need the image boost.  They are growing and gaining population, and are on the radar of the nation.  

57 minutes ago, eyehrtfood said:

Every other city revamping their airport is treating it as the rightful first-impression, gateway, tone-setter for visitors. A pride thing. A posturing thing. (If you don't have the flights, at least have the facilities...) 

 

CLE should not scrimp and be the odd city out on this. (If you don't have all the big city flights at least you need big city facilities. You think Columbus and Pittsburgh care about anything other than building the nicest airports possible, no matter the overspending perception some may have? Have you seen Indianapolis' majestic main hall, etc...? Those cities care about more than the $.)

I disagree. A positive impression from the airport isn't worth that much, and I think people tend to separate the airport from the city in their impression. Also most very negative impressions are going to come from the airport being unclean, or TSA/security. We don't need a 3 billion renovation to keep the airport clean, and security and TSA can be an awful experience at every airport. 

 

Most governments and government agencies don't think about money nearly enough. How much do we think this 3 billion dollar renovation will increase average ticket costs? Airlines don't/won't/can't pay for it, so it gets passed on to the customers. What dollar value average increase in ticket prices is this expansion worth? Clearly the answer is between zero and infinity. I'd like to see an analysis for this question. My gut is starting to say it might be too high, but I'd love to get an estimate from a more informed person than myself. 

 

Cleveland tends to do fine on impressions once people get to Ohio City or similar neighborhood. As a resident who likes traveling I'd rather not spend more on every ticket so we can have a snazzier airport to be proud of. 

1 hour ago, Enginerd said:

What’s the difference between what Cleveland is doing versus mid-sized airports all over the country rebuilding their terminals?

 

Pittsburgh - $1.6 billion

Kansas City - $1.5 billion

Columbus, OH - $2 billion

St Louis - $650 million (for 62 new gates only)

 

CLE is out of step at $3 billion.  The only explanation is that the number includes work apart from what the airlines are liable for.  It includes a lot of road work, for example; but that doesn't fully explain the differences.  The public deserves a better explanation than it has been given.

Remember: It's the Year of the Snake

The $3B price tag is based on the completion of all phases of the master plan which will probably take a couple decades.  So I assume they are factoring in inflation. Each phase is based on passenger levels. I am I bit skeptically about all phases being completed even if CLE reaches those passenger levels.

Not sure why Cleveland Airport officials have shown Zero public interest in the 175 acres Jimmy has optioned for the alleged brook park dome. Instead of the State paying hundreds of millions on roadways and exit ramps to Jimmy’s brook park playground, the State and County could spend

much less to acquire and upgrade roads and bridges that would append this land to the land-locked airport. I am sure a deal could be made to encourage Jimmy to stay downtown.

On 9/26/2024 at 12:42 PM, LibertyBlvd said:

CLE seems to be lagging behind CVG and PIT for some reason.  Both have more INTL service than CLE.  Is leadership at CLE not aggressive enough? 

 

We probably don't subsidize flights as much.

 

On 9/26/2024 at 12:25 PM, dski44 said:

I guess the flights are much cheaper and more convenient than Cle.

 

 

According to USDOT our domestic fares are about the same (https://www.transtats.bts.gov/averagefare/), that said, when I'm searching routes I find Cleveland to be substantially cheaper than PIT or others...granted these cheap flights aren't on legacy carriers.

Spirit Airlines suspends Cleveland to Orlando flight amid bankruptcy talk

 

Spirit Airlines is suspending nonstop service between Cleveland and Orlando amid talk that the carrier is considering filing for bankruptcy, according to a report.

 

The route suspension is one of dozens of cutbacks that the carrier is implementing in an effort to shore up its financing.

 

More below:

https://www.bizjournals.com/cleveland/news/2024/10/08/spirit-airlines-orlando-route-bankruptcy.html

"You don't just walk into a bar and mix it up by calling a girl fat" - buildingcincinnati speaking about new forumers

12 hours ago, ColDayMan said:

Spirit Airlines suspends Cleveland to Orlando flight amid bankruptcy talk

 

Spirit Airlines is suspending nonstop service between Cleveland and Orlando amid talk that the carrier is considering filing for bankruptcy, according to a report.

 

The route suspension is one of dozens of cutbacks that the carrier is implementing in an effort to shore up its financing.

 

More below:

https://www.bizjournals.com/cleveland/news/2024/10/08/spirit-airlines-orlando-route-bankruptcy.html

I've never taken that flight before, but I can imagine it would be the definition of "living hell in an Airbus."  😜

Hopkins-Building-214-5900-Cargo-Rd-Aug20

 

Hopkins Airport’s first terminal project takes off
By Ken Prendergast / October 9, 2024

 

If you are heading south from Cleveland Hopkins International Airport on State Route 237, you might be able to catch a brief glimpse of where a nearly $3 billion modernization program for the airport’s terminal is about to begin. But most people probably won’t even notice the building or when the work starts on upgrading its interior.

 

MORE:

https://neo-trans.blog/2024/10/09/hopkins-airports-first-terminal-project-takes-off/

"In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck

  • 2 weeks later...

Bye bye Sheraton!IMG_6603.thumb.jpeg.3f46a932e6df8f203dddd3cafab6d8d0.jpegIMG_6605.thumb.jpeg.f363297baf5cac3da5f2414855e0d357.jpeg

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Here's an interesting report on the performance of the long range model A-321 out of Ireland. For Dublin routes in the year 2023, CLE-DUB had the highest load factor and the best revenue per available seat/km. The average year-round load factor and yield likely means that little if any of the pledged ~ $4 million revenue guarantee was actually paid out to Aer Lingus. 

 

https://www.beontra.com/unlocking-new-horizons-airlines-embrace-a321lr-for-direct-connections-to-long-haul-and-niche-markets-post-covid-a-case-study/

Remember: It's the Year of the Snake

CLE-10-20-24-62.jpg

 

CLE-10-20-24-63.jpg

 

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  • 3 weeks later...

Seeing the CMH plans is really making me antsy for updates…

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46 minutes ago, Enginerd said:

Seeing the CMH plans is really making me antsy for updates…

IMG_2610.gif

CMH plans are so many years ahead of ours but hopefully we will have news on CLE soon.

14 hours ago, Willo said:

CMH plans are so many years ahead of ours but hopefully we will have news on CLE soon.

Anybody have an idea when design info will come out?  All I've heard is sometime next year.

47 minutes ago, dski44 said:

Yes it would be nice. While we can’t imagine United returning to operate a hub for a 3rd time at CLE we would gladly accept. The writer seems a legit aviation strategic and financial expert. Hopefully Bibb and Ronayne have sent out feelers to United to see if this just more hopium or if is a future possibility. Maybe United would want to weigh in on our pending $2billion airport redo. There is still time to trade St Jimmy’s option for the BP property and instead offer him part of Burke (or other) so the BP land could appended to the existing airport footprint for aviation related purposes such as if United would want to develop an adjacent base ops there.

1 hour ago, dski44 said:

I remember reading after covid that airlines were starting to debate building more hubs again, as New York, Atlanta, Chicago, and the other big hub cities kept getting hit with major delays and other issues. But it seems that never really went anywhere. 

 

It just makes too much sense for a United hub to come back to Cleveland. We're right in the middle of their Chicago, Newark, and DC hubs. 

Edited by PlanCleveland

39 minutes ago, PlanCleveland said:

I remember reading after covid that airlines were starting to debate building more hubs again, as New York, Atlanta, Chicago, and the other big hub cities kept getting hit with major delays and other issues. But it seems that never really went anywhere. 

 

It just makes too much sense for a United hub to come back to Cleveland. We're right in the middle of their Chicago, Newark, and DC hubs. 

 

I once tried to make the case that the closure of the CLE UA hub sent more traffic to Delta in DTW than to UA in ORD.  My case was close; but, working only with public information, I couldn't quite do it. Of course, traffic wasn't the only reason the hub closed. UA said it was unprofitable (those numbers can be manipulated); but the real reason was UA couldn't operate their entire system reliably without reductions in flying.

Remember: It's the Year of the Snake

13 minutes ago, Dougal said:

 

I once tried to make the case that the closure of the CLE UA hub sent more traffic to Delta in DTW than to UA in ORD.  My case was close; but, working only with public information, I couldn't quite do it. Of course, traffic wasn't the only reason the hub closed. UA said it was unprofitable (those numbers can be manipulated); but the real reason was UA couldn't operate their entire system reliably without reductions in flying.

We recall Continental being the healthier of the two with the CLE hub especially so. Unfortunately both companies succumbed to the consolidation frenzy occurring and couldn’t resist the idea of the monster combo as they were the only two left at the dance without a merger partner. United honored the Continental commitment to remain at least 5 years at CLE to get approval then 5 years+1 day they were gone. The cultures never meshed and the offspring is mediocrity today. The merger should have been Continental into United not the other way as happened. So sad as we had a great airline hub.

The merger of Continental and United resulted in United having way too many hubs, about 10 as I recall.  It was obvious they would not be able to keep all of them, especially CLE since it was so close to their Chicago mega hub.  I'm still annoyed that the merger was approved.

 

Edited by LibertyBlvd

IMHO, before ANY airline considers CLE as a potential hub, the powers that be, overseeing the terminal modernization/expansion project, need to get going on starting Phase 1.  The silence is deafening. 🙁

Agreed.  I don't understand why it is necessary to wait for passenger numbers to reach a certain level before embarking on phase 1.   It should have been started years ago.  Other peer cities have recently opened new airport facilities or will be soon. Pittsburgh has embarked on modernization of their airport which is only about 30 years old.  But at CLE we wait...and wait...

On 11/21/2024 at 3:52 PM, LibertyBlvd said:

Agreed.  I don't understand why it is necessary to wait for passenger numbers to reach a certain level before embarking on phase 1.   It should have been started years ago.  Other peer cities have recently opened new airport facilities or will be soon. Pittsburgh has embarked on modernization of their airport which is only about 30 years old.  But at CLE we wait...and wait...

look no further than the last mayor who snoozed as the longest serving mayor and rode the breaks hard during our slow but steady decline for 15 or more years (that we wish we get back for a do over) while other peer cities/regions pushed their pedals to the metal.  Like Pittsburgh which cooperates on a 10 County basis while we are lucky to get 1 or 2 counties to play nice with us - at times. 

The only upside to being behind PIT and CMH in rebuilding our airport is we can copy their homework and get ours done quickly since both have already studied the ideal airport needed for the near future.  Now if we could get regional cooperation like in the greater Pittsburgh and C-bus regions - ideally with help from businesses who belopng to the Greater Cleveland Partnership - maybe it would get done quickly (rather than having the the Greater Cleveland Partnership diverted by its Executive Board member Dee Haslam pushing her Jimmy World dome and parking lot next door on land adjacent to CLE that should instead be appended to CLE for the needed top to bottom refresh.

6 hours ago, brownsfan1226 said:

Aer Lingus incentive deal in Cleveland may be extended, possibly for more Dublin flights

 

https://www.cleveland.com/travel/2024/11/aer-lingus-incentive-deal-in-cleveland-may-be-extended-possibly-for-more-dublin-flights.html

This is great news! Just booked my first flight for the spring. After evaluating all options Aer Lingus really came out on top when considering price, quality, and  convenience. 

17 hours ago, brownsfan1226 said:

Aer Lingus incentive deal in Cleveland may be extended, possibly for more Dublin flights

 

https://www.cleveland.com/travel/2024/11/aer-lingus-incentive-deal-in-cleveland-may-be-extended-possibly-for-more-dublin-flights.html

I flew with them recently. While waiting in line on the way out, one of the workers mentioned to a couple in line who was asking about her job that they'd be moving up to 6 flights to/from Cleveland per week next year. They currently have 4. This should open up more easy connections throughout Europe.

 

Not sure if that's in the article or not, but it's behind the pay wall for me. 

 

I will likely use it over other carriers any chance I get. Going through a very fast and relaxed customs and US pre-screen in Dublin vs the often poor and lengthy experience when landing at most of the US airports United and others send you through when coming back to the US is so nice. 

Edited by PlanCleveland

10 hours ago, PlanCleveland said:

I will likely use it over other carriers any chance I get. Going through a very fast and relaxed customs and US pre-screen in Dublin vs the often poor and lengthy experience when landing at most of the US airports United and others send you through when coming back to the US is so nice. 

As a Global Entry user, I still prefer landing directly in the US (though not at CLE, from what I've been told!)   

The Dublin preclearance gates do not have much in the way of food, drink or relaxation, especially if your flight ends up delayed.  

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