August 15, 200717 yr How will this "trend" of problems with delays effect CLV? AOL News: Irate Airline Passengers Threaten to Sue ABC News Posted: 2007-08-14 18:10:22 Filed Under: Nation News (Aug. 14) - Dozens of outraged airplane passengers are threatening to sue Continental Airlines , claiming they were left stranded on a plane and grounded for hours in hellish conditions. Because of bad weather, Continental's July 19 Flight 1669 from Caracas, Venezuela, to Newark, N.J., was diverted to Baltimore-Washington International Airport, where it landed at 1:50 p.m. Passengers said after sitting on the grounded plane for hours, they began protesting by banging on overhead compartments, clapping their hands and even signing a petition asking to be let off. "We were not provided with food," said passenger Caroline Murray. "There were passengers who were ill. There was one woman who was diabetic. There was a pregnant woman with small children. It was shocking to me." As the 124 passengers repeatedly tried to get answers as to why they couldn't land in Newark or get off the plane, someone caught the scene on film. "When you've got passengers about ready to riot, you've got an air crew that's not properly trained to communicate," said ABC News aviation consultant John Nance. At 6:30 p.m., homeland security officers finally allowed passengers to exit the plane, but their troubles didn't end. The officers led them into a room, where they were held for two additional hours. Copyright 2007 ABCNEWS.com 2007-08-14 13:39:40 http://news.aol.com/story/ar/_a/irate-airline-passengers-threaten-to-sue/20070814133609990001
August 15, 200717 yr This is more ammunition for Continental and Cleveland to unite in order to become a larger an more visible hub in the system. Maybe some of our knowledgeable aviation forumers can speak, but IIRC, the flight was international and because of that the manifest went to Newark and the diverted airport cannot see that information so the passengers cannot go thru customs, etc. Newarks is a nightmare and more domestic traffic thru Cleveland would be great but its got to be two sides, Rich has got to come up with a way to increase the visibility of the airport, low cost, introduce more non stop business (and to some degree high profile leisure) destinations and work with the airlines and community to get another bank of departure flights out around 9 PM, especially to business destinations
August 15, 200717 yr I don't understand why these flights, if they know there is inclement weather, don't just delay boarding until the weather issues clear up, rather than board people and sit trapped on the runway? Maybe there's some legal reason that I'm not aware of, but my trip to Cleveland was delayed 6 and a half hours due to thunderstorms rolling in. Now, I don't want to fly in bad weather, but if they know it's coming, why do they board people onto the planes? 5 and a half hours of my flight was spent trapped on the plane, sitting on the runway because they boarded us.
August 15, 200717 yr I don't understand why these flights, if they know there is inclement weather, don't just delay boarding until the weather issues clear up, rather than board people and sit trapped on the runway? Maybe there's some legal reason that I'm not aware of, but my trip to Cleveland was delayed 6 and a half hours due to thunderstorms rolling in. Now, I don't want to fly in bad weather, but if they know it's coming, why do they board people onto the planes? 5 and a half hours of my flight was spent trapped on the plane, sitting on the runway because they boarded us. On an international flight they need the equipment back at a hub. Most airlines have the mentality that an "ATC Hold" (is a weather delay a code MX or XM?) is short lived and they would rather have passengers on the plane, on the taxiway ready to take of when the "hold" is lifted. In addition, it allows them to continue operations of planes arriving which need gate space. When its a weather delay, you have any legal recourse but to take it. If its an error or delay on the airlines fault you then have a contract of carriage.
August 16, 200717 yr City says airport vendor owes millions Posted by Susan Vinella August 15, 2007 21:00PM Categories: Breaking News The company that runs the concessions at Cleveland Hopkins International Airport owes the city $5.4 million in back property taxes, airport officials say. Cleveland, which owns and operates the airport, has been paying property taxes for HMS Host since 1990, but never billed the company for reimbursement, airport spokeswoman Pat Smith said. She said it's unclear why reimbursement was never sought. A spokeswoman for Host said the company, which operates the food, beverage and retail stores that occupy 46,000 square feet of space at Hopkins, is reviewing the tax-bill documents. "We're willing to pay whatever the contract requires us to pay," said Sheila McGee, referring to the company's lease agreement with the city. The agreement says the "concessionaire shall pay as additional fees all taxes, assessments and charges of a like nature...which at any time during the term may be levied or become a lien..." http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2007/08/city_says_airport_vendor_owes.html
August 16, 200717 yr Well this is good news it was found out and that the amount is so large. I hope fees are reduced to make it more attractive to Continental and those other airlines.
August 16, 200717 yr 5.4 Million could go along way in upgrades to the airfield and terminal itself. Along with: - kick start the new customs area - add canopy's to the multi use D gates - add canopy's to the are where people wait for shuttle busses to the car rental facility and hotels. - better quality restaurants and stores that stay open longer.
August 16, 200717 yr Hmm .. I think I would rather the money went to reducing the fees the airlines have to pay. Maybe that would help spur more activity and lead to more money for the airport because it'll be more attractive to airlines?
August 16, 200717 yr 5.4 Million could go along way in upgrades to the airfield and terminal itself. Along with: - kick start the new customs area - add canopy's to the multi use D gates - add canopy's to the are where people wait for shuttle busses to the car rental facility and hotels. - better quality restaurants and stores that stay open longer. Hmm .. I think I would rather the money went to reducing the fees the airlines have to pay. Maybe that would help spur more activity and lead to more money for the airport because it'll be more attractive to airlines? I agree that the go-forward annual taxes that they'll start seeing due to the better enforcement should be used to reduce landing fees. But I don't think you use a one-time benefit like the $5.4 million (which are back taxes owed) to reduce landing fees. You'd use it for one-time improvements like MTS suggested (which I agree with).
August 16, 200717 yr Didn't I read somewhere that Hopkins is something like $100Million in the red. IF this is true, that money should go directly into reducing the debt. If I am wrong, well, I will be embarrassed
August 16, 200717 yr I think that's true. I think it's mostly back taxes from companies in the terminal?
August 16, 200717 yr ^ Port Control is an enterprise fund within the City of Cleveland, by definition an enterprise fund should not require a City subsidy. So- no they are not in the red. They do carry a large amount of debt (in excess of 900M) however yearly debt service principal payments are approx 17M. I can explain more if you need.
August 16, 200717 yr And just because an enterprise fund is carrying a lot of debt doesn't mean it's in trouble. If the red ink is in operating fund categories, then it's a problem. But it's actually common for capital fund categories of public agencies to be in debt, mainly because of bonds they issued. But if you can't make bond retirement payments, then the enterprise fund is in trouble. That's not the case here. Example: I'm $70,000 in debt -- but I'm not in trouble. It's mostly my mortgage with the rest a home equity loan to make improvements to my condo. As long as I make payments on time, things are kosher. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
August 28, 200717 yr Not to cause a kerfuffle, but rumor has it on the airlners.net forums that CO CEO Larry Kellner will be in town on Wednesday, and could possibly annonce an expansion of service and, in addition, the construction of a new CO terminal at Hopkins. Now, judging by the previous record of our fellow forumers on that site, I wouldn't go about betting the farm on this yet. And it seems that there is a lot of potential for gate consolidation amongst the other carriers that could open up space in Concourse B for Continental, for example. But some sort of announcement regarding a CO expansion at CLE that was rumored earlier in the summer would make sense right now, timing wise. I guess we'll just have to wait and see...an activity that I know is not exactly met with abundant enthusiam here on UO!
August 28, 200717 yr Mayor Jackson's office hasn't heard a peep about this rumor. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
August 28, 200717 yr The airliners.net, has a reputation for being a rumor mill. Several people on my staff say they wouldn't believe the accuracy of the information reported there, but where there is smoke - there is fire.
August 28, 200717 yr The only truth here so far is that Larry Kellner will be in town Wednesday. When key Continental execs come into town, everyone that cares about, works for, or follows CLE gets excited that there will be a "big" announcement. Now, there probably will be announcements, the question is how big and how positive they will be. The last trip by execs brought some vague talk about future service expansion, but no clear dates, locations, etc. Mayor Jackson also said on 90.3 @ 9 today that the 5 year airport master plan was due in early Oct. Obviously, key improvements or expansion plans could be part of this, and judging by his style, he isn't one to talk about (or have staffers talk about) random expansion plans that may not come to be.
August 28, 200717 yr KJP just reported that the Mayor's off knows nothing of this. I'm not disputing there will be an announcement soon as mentioned earlier this year, there just isn't any supporting evidence to say it will happen tomorrow.
August 28, 200717 yr KJP just reported that the Mayor's off knows nothing of this. and that was my point. jackson isn't one to randomly talk about plans that aren't firm and aren't going to happen. but, imo, that doesn't mean that there couldn't be an announcement. what would jackson's office know? that the airport master plan isn't complete yet? that there are no plans that they are aware of for a major expansion? those would both be true statements, but wouldn't preclude actual activity that is going on behind the scenes. jackson would also be smart to not play the city's hand to continental judging by the past rumors/promises of more service. I'm not disputing there will be an announcement soon as mentioned earlier this year, there just isn't any supporting evidence to say it will happen tomorrow. imo, the "supporting evidence" is that a continental exec is going to be in town, and when continental execs are in town, there is usuall an announcement of some kind. whether it is a terminal expansion, flight expansion, discontinuation of flights, laying off employees, who knows - it could be positive or negative news - and i agree there isn't any firm evidence that a terminal expansion will occur at this point. but the combination of the airport's 5 year master plan coming to an end and a continental exec in town, could mean something, at least in the minds of the CLE boosters. plus, ricky smith would probably be the person to get a comment from, not the mayor's office.
August 28, 200717 yr I saw the thread earlier today too but again, every month there's a thread on that website regarding CLE expansion and we keep waiting... IF there's a new concourse announcement tomorrow, PARTY AT MY PLACE!!! :wink:
August 28, 200717 yr cle2032, I agree with you on the glut of rubbish over on airliners.net. If Cleveland had a nickel... But the fact that Kellner will be in town I think gives this particular rumor some legs. At the very least, it's fair to say that a visit by Kellner will result in some news -- good, bad, or otherwise.
August 29, 200717 yr Not to cause a kerfuffle, but rumor has it on the airlners.net forums that CO CEO Larry Kellner will be in town on Wednesday, and could possibly annonce an expansion of service and, in addition, the construction of a new CO terminal at Hopkins. Now, judging by the previous record of our fellow forumers on that site, I wouldn't go about betting the farm on this yet. And it seems that there is a lot of potential for gate consolidation amongst the other carriers that could open up space in Concourse B for Continental, for example. But some sort of announcement regarding a CO expansion at CLE that was rumored earlier in the summer would make sense right now, timing wise. I guess we'll just have to wait and see...an activity that I know is not exactly met with abundant enthusiam here on UO! The only truth here so far is that Larry Kellner will be in town Wednesday. When key Continental execs come into town, everyone that cares about, works for, or follows CLE gets excited that there will be a "big" announcement. Now, there probably will be announcements, the question is how big and how positive they will be. The last trip by execs brought some vague talk about future service expansion, but no clear dates, locations, etc. Mayor Jackson also said on 90.3 @ 9 today that the 5 year airport master plan was due in early Oct. Obviously, key improvements or expansion plans could be part of this, and judging by his style, he isn't one to talk about (or have staffers talk about) random expansion plans that may not come to be. ANY WORD ON THIS "ANNOUNCEMENT"? :roll: If Kellner was here, there would be word on the street and in the paper.
August 30, 200717 yr Kevin Kelley, chair of Cleveland City Council's Aviation & Transportation Committee, told me last evening that he wouldn't be surprised that Continental will make an announcement someday of an expansion and maybe even of a new terminal. But he said he would be surprised if any announcement was made today, saying it was too simply soon. "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
August 30, 200717 yr Per the guy who started the rumor on airliners (for whatever that's worth...) he says the announcement will actually be made on 9/14 when Continental's CEO is in town again. He mentions a new Concourse E, north of concourse C. Who knows...
August 30, 200717 yr Per the guy who started the rumoer on airliners (for whatever that's worth...) he says the announcement will actually be made on 9/14 when Continental's CEO is in town again. He mentions a new Concourse E, north of concourse C. Who knows... I am hoping they follow the munich airport design of a new concourse and make it the central concourse,then rebuild the airport to follow the new concourse
September 11, 200717 yr Cleveland Businesswire: September 10, 2007 06:33 PM Eastern Daylight Time Fitch Rates Cleveland, Ohio's $148.2MM 2007A Airport System Revs 'A'; Outlook Stable CHICAGO--(BUSINESS WIRE)--Fitch Ratings assigns an 'A' rating on the City of Cleveland, Ohio's $148.2 million airport system revenue bonds, series 2007A (subject to the federal alternative minimum tax [AMT]), and $11 million airport system revenue bonds, series 2007B (Non-AMT). Both series will be sold through syndicates led by Morgan Stanley. The 2007 A bonds will be issued as auction-rate securities, which will be hedged through a floating-to-fixed rated forward starting swap the airport entered in to in February 2007 with Morgan Stanley Capital Services Inc., Goldman Sachs Capital Markets LP, and RPFC Financial Products LLC serving as counterparties. The 2007A bonds are scheduled to price the week of October 1. The 2007B bonds will be issued as fixed rate securities and are scheduled to price on or about September 20. Proceeds of the series 2007A bonds will refinance the airport's series 1997A bonds, while proceeds of series 2007B will refinance the airports series 1997C bonds. The bonds are secured by the net revenues of the City of Cleveland's airport system, which consists of Cleveland-Hopkins International Airport (Hopkins or the airport) and Burke Lakefront Airport. Swap interest payments are on parity with senior lien debt, while termination payments are subordinate. Also, Fitch affirms its 'A' rating on the airport's approximately $930 million of outstanding parity debt. The Rating Outlook is Stable. The 'A' rating reflects the stable service area demographics of the Cleveland metropolitan statistical area (MSA), high origination and destination (O&D) passenger base (76% in 2006), strong liquidity for an airport with a residual rate-making methodology, stable operating margin and proven ability to generate healthy non-airline revenue levels. Offsetting credit factors include the airport's high cost structure and lower than average utilization levels, market share dominance (62% in 2006) by Continental Airlines (Continental, Issuer Default Rating [iDR] 'B-' with a Stable Outlook by Fitch) and connecting traffic levels. The airport system serves Northeast Ohio and the Cleveland MSA with a 2005 population of 2.1 million. Furthermore, the MSA's wealth levels are 111% and 103% of the state and nation, respectively. A strong stable population base is important, as the airport is primarily an O&D airport facility.
September 12, 200717 yr Great news, I can't wait to see what actual improvements are going to be made. Wish they could just start from scratch on the whole concourse, but that would surprise me if they could do all that with $50 mill ... From the PeeDee: http://www.cleveland.com/news/plaindealer/index.ssf?/base/cuyahoga/1189586490312150.xml&coll=2 Continental plans $50 million expansion at Hopkins, source says Wednesday, September 12, 2007 Henry J. Gomez and Susan Vinella Plain Dealer Reporters Continental Airlines is expected to announce plans Friday for enlarging its hub at Cleveland Hopkins International Airport - an expansion that's likely to create hundreds of jobs and pump millions of dollars into the region's economy. Airline executives declined to talk about the deal Tuesday. But a source familiar with the plans said they will deliver the news to Mayor Frank Jackson and others at a City Hall meeting on Friday morning. Jackson's office would neither confirm nor deny the meeting, but State Rep. Matt Dolan, who earmarked $1.5 million in the state budget to aid potential Continental growth, said he has been invited to the City Hall meeting and was told the gathering concerned the airline. "I'm just assuming it's good news," the Republican from Russell Township said. Gov. Ted Strickland's office reported Tuesday that the governor also will be speaking with the airline's executives Friday morning in Cleveland. State officials, worried that Continental would choose instead to grow at its Newark, N.J., or hometown Houston hubs, dangled $16 million in financial incentives to land the project. Continental has offered few details about its plans. But in documents filed with the Ohio Department of Development, the airline said the $50 million expansion would bring an unspecified number of new flights to Hopkins and create more than 700 jobs. Cleveland is the Midwest base for Continental, which as of March had more than 2,000 employees here. The airline is Hopkins' largest carrier. To reach this Plain Dealer reporters: [email protected], 216-999-5405 [email protected], 216-999-5010 CONTINENTAL'S PLANS - The airline has said its $50 million expansion at Hopkins would bring: - 711 new jobs. - Increased flights and destinations. - More connecting flights through Cleveland. - New ticketing and reception areas.
September 12, 200717 yr Hurrah!!! Of course the first comment on the pd blog is negative: Posted by cubejockey on 09/12/07 at 7:14AM wonder who's gonna be the "minority owned" contractor on this one..
September 12, 200717 yr While this is great news, $50 million doesn't seem like it would be enough to build a new terminal. Hope I'm wrong.
September 12, 200717 yr CONTINENTAL'S PLANS - The airline has said its $50 million expansion at Hopkins would bring: - 711 new jobs. - Increased flights and destinations. - More connecting flights through Cleveland. - New ticketing and reception areas. It sounds like a reconfiguration/addition of an existing terminal. $50 million doesn't seem nearly enough to build a new terminal. Is there room anyway?
September 12, 200717 yr I would like to see them re-work the C-concourse - it's depressingly dingy and way too narrow; the gates are spaced so far apart at the beginning. It would be nice to rework the area from C-1 to C-14 to be brighter with skylights and higher ceilings, wider (maybe semi-circular additions on each side to accommodate more gates closer to the security check-point if possible). I swear I'm always schlepping bags all the way down that concourse to the end for my flight, and between the overflowing crowds trying to board the bigger flights and the ever-present golf carts passing through, there's barely a corridor to walk through sometimes. According to Continental's 1999 annual report, construction of Concourse D (16 gates) cost $92 million.
September 12, 200717 yr I'm assuming that it would be concourse C being that is mostly all Continental's gates (non-commuter).
September 12, 200717 yr I could see Concourse C being widened and renovated pretty easily with around $50 million. Some modifications would have to be done to Concourse D so that multiple mainline Continental jets can be accomodated there while work is done on C. Continental Express aircraft could use the ground-level piers at D17, D21, D25, and D28, as I believe most of their ERJs have airstairs. Meanwhile, work could be done in two stages on the C Concourse, renovating and expanding the even-number gates first, followed by the odd-numbered gates in the "neck of the banjo." Moving customs and immigration into the C Concourse could also help ease connection.
September 12, 200717 yr well on airliners.net some wiseman said this was good news for such a depressed city...Give me a break! :roll: I say good ridance to steel mills! They make this city smell bad!
September 12, 200717 yr Now if they could just speed up the people movers between C & D with some of this money..
September 12, 200717 yr I wish that tunnel was a bit more inspiring. ORD's United terminal set the standard for tunnels and DTW's is cool too. Our's is sooooo bland! Anyways, this is awesome news! Although we don't know the scope yet, this is just as big or even bigger than any downtown project! Come on Friday!
September 12, 200717 yr I had heard some time ago that there was a plan to eventually build a connector to get to the D concourse directly from the ticketing area, so you wouldn't have to go through half of the C concourse and then through the current tunnel. This certainly could be part of the plan. I posted a similar question (what would $50 million buy?) on a frequent flier board that I frequent, here is the most eloquent response: $50m is a lot less than you would think. For comparison, BOS's terminal A clocked in at around $500 million for 22 gates. As another data point, the new security checkpoint at CPH came in around DKK 200 million, or $37m at recent rates. With $50 million, my guess is you are talking incremental improvements to the terminals, along the lines of new checkin kiosks, renovated food/retail space, some renovations of the security lines, showers in the PC, etc.
September 12, 200717 yr ^I always had a gut feeling that Continental might expand at Hopkins because of the cogestion at its other two hubs, especially Newark. As part of this expansion I thought more international flights out of Cleveland made sense since these are basicaly feeder flights and are not dependent on all the international passengers living in the region where the airport is. Continental could easily direct many of its regional flights from the Midwest and the Eastern South to Hopkins for multiple take offs to Europe. Anxious to hear details on Friday to see if this is actually the case.
September 12, 200717 yr I wish that tunnel was a bit more inspiring. ORD's United terminal set the standard for tunnels and DTW's is cool too. Our's is sooooo bland! Anyways, this is awesome news! Although we don't know the scope yet, this is just as big or even bigger than any downtown project! So more disnyish? :wink:
September 13, 200717 yr http://www.city.cleveland.oh.us/pdf/press/20070912295.pdf Mayor Frank G. Jackson & Continental Airlines to Announce Details of Major Cleveland Expansion Investments in Cleveland Hopkins International Airport revs region's economic engine September 12, 2007 - As part of Mayor Frank G. Jackson's on-going effort to strengthen our local and regional economy, he and Airport Director Ricky Smith have been working closely with Continental Airlines to strategically position Cleveland Hopkins International Airport for the future. Mayor Jackson will be joined by Ohio Governor Ted Strickland, Continental Airlines Chairman and CEO Larry Kellner and Continental Airlines President Jeffrey A. Smisek this Friday to announce details of this investment in Cleveland by Continental Airlines. WHO: Frank G. Jackson, Mayor, City of Cleveland Ted Strickland, Governor, State of Ohio Larry Kellner, Chairman and CEO, Continental Airlines Jeffrey Smisek, President, Continental Airlines Ricky Smith, Director, CLE Hopkins International Airport WHEN: Friday September 14, 2007 10:30 a.m. WHERE: Red Room Second Floor Cleveland City Hall 601 Lakeside Avenue Cleveland, Ohio 44114 "In the souls of the people the grapes of wrath are filling and growing heavy, growing heavy for the vintage." -- John Steinbeck
September 13, 200717 yr I didn't say disneyish but for a terminal that is +/- 20 years old, Helmut Jahn's T1 is an amazing space whose tunnel adds a reprieve--or a bit of excitement (depending on how you look at it) to air travel. I know there are budgets but it's a claustrophobic space between C and D--they could have at least introduced mirrors or something if digging more earth cost $$$. Anyways, cheers to Friday!
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