A lot of times even though a city pair might offer non-stops, the res systems will give you connections because the fare might be lower.  CLE-LHR n/s is usually pricey compared to the connections

 

My parents are flying to Florida in March to visit my snowbird Grandpa, but they are driving from Cleveland to Erie, Pa. for a 7am flight only to fly back to Cleveland, pick up passengers, and then go on to Florida because it is $150 cheaper per person to leave from Erie instead of Cleveland. 

 

yet they are:

• putting miles on their car
  
• have a gas expense
  
• time expense
  
• maintenance
   
  

All for $150.  :wtf:    And if the weather is bad or the flight is book light, they may cancel the flight.  If the weather is bad, then there is the added possibility of them missing their connection.

 

People don't realize that inbound/outbound hub flights cost more.

 

Is that $150.00 total or per person?  If total then the actual savings might not be so great.  And you are right, the cost of a hub is higher airfares.  That's how we made CVG work. 

 

Do you ever fly the shuttle or JFK-LAX?

A lot of times even though a city pair might offer non-stops, the res systems will give you connections because the fare might be lower.  CLE-LHR n/s is usually pricey compared to the connections

 

My parents are flying to Florida in March to visit my snowbird Grandpa, but they are driving from Cleveland to Erie, Pa. for a 7am flight only to fly back to Cleveland, pick up passengers, and then go on to Florida because it is $150 cheaper per person to leave from Erie instead of Cleveland. 

 

yet they are:

• putting miles on their car
  
• have a gas expense
  
• time expense
  
• maintenance
   
  

All for $150.   :wtf:   And if the weather is bad or the flight is book light, they may cancel the flight.  If the weather is bad, then there is the added possibility of them missing their connection.

 

People don't realize that inbound/outbound hub flights cost more.

 

Is that $150.00 total or per person?  If total then the actual savings might not be so great.  And you are right, the cost of a hub is higher airfares.  That's how we made CVG work. 

 

I was COMPLETELY wrong:

Cleveland to Orlando is $650 per person.

Erie - Cleveland - Orlando is $200 per person.

My other grandpa will probably drive them to Erie, that way they can just get off the plane in cleveland for the return trip.

A lot of times even though a city pair might offer non-stops, the res systems will give you connections because the fare might be lower. CLE-LHR n/s is usually pricey compared to the connections

 

My parents are flying to Florida in March to visit my snowbird Grandpa, but they are driving from Cleveland to Erie, Pa. for a 7am flight only to fly back to Cleveland, pick up passengers, and then go on to Florida because it is $150 cheaper per person to leave from Erie instead of Cleveland.

 

yet they are:

• putting miles on their car
  
• have a gas expense
  
• time expense
  
• maintenance
   
  

All for $150.   :wtf: And if the weather is bad or the flight is book light, they may cancel the flight. If the weather is bad, then there is the added possibility of them missing their connection.

 

People don't realize that inbound/outbound hub flights cost more.

 

Is that $150.00 total or per person? If total then the actual savings might not be so great. And you are right, the cost of a hub is higher airfares. That's how we made CVG work.

 

Do you ever fly the shuttle or JFK-LAX?

 

I usually fly ATL - LAX/SFO/SLC  Despite my title, I fly 767's domestic.  Tho the MD-88's were fun

A lot of times even though a city pair might offer non-stops, the res systems will give you connections because the fare might be lower.  CLE-LHR n/s is usually pricey compared to the connections

 

My parents are flying to Florida in March to visit my snowbird Grandpa, but they are driving from Cleveland to Erie, Pa. for a 7am flight only to fly back to Cleveland, pick up passengers, and then go on to Florida because it is $150 cheaper per person to leave from Erie instead of Cleveland. 

 

yet they are:

• putting miles on their car
  
• have a gas expense
  
• time expense
  
• maintenance
   
  

All for $150.  :wtf:    And if the weather is bad or the flight is book light, they may cancel the flight.  If the weather is bad, then there is the added possibility of them missing their connection.

 

People don't realize that inbound/outbound hub flights cost more.

 

Is that $150.00 total or per person?  If total then the actual savings might not be so great.  And you are right, the cost of a hub is higher airfares.  That's how we made CVG work. 

 

Do you ever fly the shuttle or JFK-LAX?

 

I usually fly ATL - LAX/SFO/SLC  Despite my title, I fly 767's domestic.  Tho the MD-88's were fun

 

then I'm never on your flights.  I fly the DAL shuttle to MDW, BOS or DCA; LGA-ATL-LGA; CLE to CVG or DTW and occasionally JFK to LAX, but I like United TransCon Service better.  My other flights from CLE are on CAL.

New York has always been our gateway to Europe.  While everything stated here does make some economic sense on paper for CAL, people still want to fly in and out of New York for reasons reaching beyond the ones stated above.  Most Europeans I deal with would never consider Cleveland because their business and leisure travels are all on either coast, making NYC the obvious choice for their inbound flights to the US.  The customs at CLE is sketchy at best--I once had to wait 1.5 hours for the agents TO ARRIVE on an inbound from LGW because our flight was late and the border patrol sent the agents home....  ::)

 

 

NY has not always been our gateway.  We've previously had non stop service to europe.

 

Not everyone wants to fly in and out of NEWARK or a NYC Airport.  Businesses in Cleveland need non stop TATL service.  We need to be able to compete globally and with to very large, high profile events coming here that showcase people from all over the world, we need non stop international service.  The city and continental must get that INS/Customs situation in order NOW.

 

In regard to your ONE situation, that could happen at any airport.  ::)

 

Sorry I should have been more specific.  By "our" gateway to Europe I meant all of us, as in US citizens, world business people, immigrants, New York Harbor, Ellis Island and on we go back in history... I didn't mean Cleveland.  I am very aware of Cleveland's flights and acutally was a customer on the LGW flight numerous times (didn't like the long hours on a cramped 757, but direct to home is good).

What a far cry from two years ago when we were anticipating a large ramp up in CO flights, a new flight to Paris, and an expanded customs area.  The flight expansion has been completely reversed and plans for the customs expansion put on ice.  I am hoping that the cancellation of the LHR flight addresses a specific issue, and that there are not more flight cut shoes to drop.  I do not understand this "hour away" issue.  When Continental was in SkyTeam, Detroit was much closer to Cleveland than either Chicago or Newark, and they still did the London Gatwick service.  Is it the cost of Heathrow slots specifically?  Are they more pally with United than they were with Northwest/Delta and more likely to switch passengers to them?  Was the CLE - LHR flight performing marginally, such that it made more sense to fly a larger plane from a denser origin on the route?  I am waiting to see how this United - Continental relationship settles out.  I would hate to see our connectivity gutted to benefit Chicago.  By the way, I wanted to give a kudo to the Cleveland CO staff who I have found superior to the people I have dealt with at EWR. Keep up the good work and I hope you are here for a long time!

What a far cry from two years ago when we were anticipating a large ramp up in CO flights, a new flight to Paris, and an expanded customs area.  The flight expansion has been completely reversed and plans for the customs expansion put on ice.  I am hoping that the cancellation of the LHR flight addresses a specific issue, and that there are not more flight cut shoes to drop.  I do not understand this "hour away" issue.  When Continental was in SkyTeam, Detroit was much closer to Cleveland than either Chicago or Newark, and they still did the London Gatwick service.  Is it the cost of Heathrow slots specifically?  Are they more pally with United than they were with Northwest/Delta and more likely to switch passengers to them?  Was the CLE - LHR flight performing marginally, such that it made more sense to fly a larger plane from a denser origin on the route?  I am waiting to see how this United - Continental relationship settles out.  I would hate to see our connectivity gutted to benefit Chicago.  By the way, I wanted to give a kudo to the Cleveland CO staff who I have found superior to the people I have dealt with at EWR. Keep up the good work and I hope you are here for a long time!

 

I think we touched on some of your question up thread

What a far cry from two years ago when we were anticipating a large ramp up in CO flights, a new flight to Paris, and an expanded customs area. The flight expansion has been completely reversed and plans for the customs expansion put on ice. I am hoping that the cancellation of the LHR flight addresses a specific issue, and that there are not more flight cut shoes to drop. I do not understand this "hour away" issue. When Continental was in SkyTeam, Detroit was much closer to Cleveland than either Chicago or Newark, and they still did the London Gatwick service. Is it the cost of Heathrow slots specifically? Are they more pally with United than they were with Northwest/Delta and more likely to switch passengers to them? Was the CLE - LHR flight performing marginally, such that it made more sense to fly a larger plane from a denser origin on the route? I am waiting to see how this United - Continental relationship settles out. I would hate to see our connectivity gutted to benefit Chicago. By the way, I wanted to give a kudo to the Cleveland CO staff who I have found superior to the people I have dealt with at EWR. Keep up the good work and I hope you are here for a long time!

 

I think we touched on some of your question up thread

 

It needs to be pointed out that the LHR flight this past summer wasn't originally supposed to happen.  When CAL left LGW, CLE-LON was a gonner.  It so happened that CAL leased an advantageous slot from another airline at good connection times on both ends and at a price that made the economics work with a B757.  NOTHING WAS GUARANTEED FOR 2010.  CAL said earlier this summer that the 2010 flight depended on a similar arrangement.  Apparently this did not happen.  Don't read too much into this that CAL is not committed to CLE.  I think transatlantic will still happen, but I think it will be FRA.  After all, being is STAR with LH makes a FRA tie-up more efficient.

A lot of times even though a city pair might offer non-stops, the res systems will give you connections because the fare might be lower. CLE-LHR n/s is usually pricey compared to the connections

 

My parents are flying to Florida in March to visit my snowbird Grandpa, but they are driving from Cleveland to Erie, Pa. for a 7am flight only to fly back to Cleveland, pick up passengers, and then go on to Florida because it is $150 cheaper per person to leave from Erie instead of Cleveland.

 

yet they are:

• putting miles on their car
  
• have a gas expense
  
• time expense
  
• maintenance
   
  

All for $150.   :wtf:   And if the weather is bad or the flight is book light, they may cancel the flight. If the weather is bad, then there is the added possibility of them missing their connection.

 

People don't realize that inbound/outbound hub flights cost more.

 

Is that $150.00 total or per person? If total then the actual savings might not be so great. And you are right, the cost of a hub is higher airfares. That's how we made CVG work.

 

Do you ever fly the shuttle or JFK-LAX?

 

I usually fly ATL - LAX/SFO/SLC Despite my title, I fly 767's domestic. Tho the MD-88's were fun

 

then I'm never on your flights. I fly the DAL shuttle to MDW, BOS or DCA; LGA-ATL-LGA; CLE to CVG or DTW and occasionally JFK to LAX, but I like United TransCon Service better. My other flights from CLE are on CAL.

 

Oh i used to fly JFK-LAX.... it's all B757's now tho

What a far cry from two years ago when we were anticipating a large ramp up in CO flights, a new flight to Paris, and an expanded customs area.  The flight expansion has been completely reversed and plans for the customs expansion put on ice.  I am hoping that the cancellation of the LHR flight addresses a specific issue, and that there are not more flight cut shoes to drop.  I do not understand this "hour away" issue.  When Continental was in SkyTeam, Detroit was much closer to Cleveland than either Chicago or Newark, and they still did the London Gatwick service.  Is it the cost of Heathrow slots specifically?  Are they more pally with United than they were with Northwest/Delta and more likely to switch passengers to them?  Was the CLE - LHR flight performing marginally, such that it made more sense to fly a larger plane from a denser origin on the route?  I am waiting to see how this United - Continental relationship settles out.  I would hate to see our connectivity gutted to benefit Chicago.  By the way, I wanted to give a kudo to the Cleveland CO staff who I have found superior to the people I have dealt with at EWR. Keep up the good work and I hope you are here for a long time!

 

I think we touched on some of your question up thread

 

It needs to be pointed out that the LHR flight this past summer wasn't originally supposed to happen.  When CAL left LGW, CLE-LON was a gonner.  It so happened that CAL leased an advantageous slot from another airline at good connection times on both ends and at a price that made the economics work with a B757.  NOTHING WAS GUARANTEED FOR 2010.  CAL said earlier this summer that the 2010 flight depended on a similar arrangement.  Apparently this did not happen.  Don't read too much into this that CAL is not committed to CLE.  I think transatlantic will still happen, but I think it will be FRA.  After all, being is STAR with LH makes a FRA tie-up more efficient.

 

It been rumored that the LHR slot came from Lufthansa as a "gift" for Continental joining star alliance.

 

Which is why the announcement to serve LHR came late.  Lufthansa has previously wanted to service Cleveland as a cargo hub, so to me it makes more sense for Paris service to end (in the short term) since that is an Air France Hub (skyteam founding airline) and add a CLE-FRA flight.

 

Hopefully, for my own personal gain, the CLE-LHR flight returns.

 

 

Oh i used to fly JFK-LAX.... it's all B757's now tho

 

That's why I fly United, their three class service is the best.

Sorry I should have been more specific. By "our" gateway to Europe I meant all of us, as in US citizens, world business people, immigrants, New York Harbor, Ellis Island and on we go back in history... I didn't mean Cleveland. I am very aware of Cleveland's flights and acutally was a customer on the LGW flight numerous times (didn't like the long hours on a cramped 757, but direct to home is good).

 

I appreciate the history of NYC as a gateway, but don't understand why it would matter for people transacting business between the Midwest/south and Europe.  Which might be why there are several non-coastal US cities with direct European flights.  I know that doesn't mean the economics are there for Cleveland to be one of them, but it also means NYC does not, in fact, suck up all the international travel.

Sorry I should have been more specific.  By "our" gateway to Europe I meant all of us, as in US citizens, world business people, immigrants, New York Harbor, Ellis Island and on we go back in history... I didn't mean Cleveland.  I am very aware of Cleveland's flights and actually was a customer on the LGW flight numerous times (didn't like the long hours on a cramped 757, but direct to home is good).

 

I appreciate the history of NYC as a gateway, but don't understand why it would matter for people transacting business between the Midwest/south and Europe.  Which might be why there are several non-coastal US cities with direct European flights.  I know that doesn't mean the economics are there for Cleveland to be one of them, but it also means NYC does not, in fact, suck up all the international travel.

 

And it doesn't, other hubs have lots of international travel as well as niche international travel destinations.  Here are a few

 

• IAD (united, Virgin, and many others)
  
• ATL (Delta and Skyteam)
  
• CLT (US Air mainly Caribbean)
  
• PHL (US Air mainly European)
  
• DTW (Delta [formerly NW] TATL & TPAC [busiest tpac airline/hub])
  
• ORD (United and Star Alliance and American)
  
• DAL (American)
  
• MIA (American mostly South American)
  
• LAX (TPAC Australian and Pacific Islands)
  
• IAH (Continental, has almost as many Mexican destinations as Mexican airlines.  Now trying to connect to other energy capitals.)
  
• SFO (various carries good TPAC service that feeds it's United mini hub)
  

Also Memphis is propped up by it's Fed Ex Hub.  The amount of volume that goes thru MEM via Fed ex helps to keep the commercial travel cost low.

 

Although today many of those hubs have scaled back international travel or have code shares on flights that were once operated by two carries.

 

What a far cry from two years ago when we were anticipating a large ramp up in CO flights, a new flight to Paris, and an expanded customs area.  The flight expansion has been completely reversed and plans for the customs expansion put on ice.  I am hoping that the cancellation of the LHR flight addresses a specific issue, and that there are not more flight cut shoes to drop.  I do not understand this "hour away" issue.  When Continental was in SkyTeam, Detroit was much closer to Cleveland than either Chicago or Newark, and they still did the London Gatwick service.  Is it the cost of Heathrow slots specifically?  Are they more pally with United than they were with Northwest/Delta and more likely to switch passengers to them?  Was the CLE - LHR flight performing marginally, such that it made more sense to fly a larger plane from a denser origin on the route?  I am waiting to see how this United - Continental relationship settles out.  I would hate to see our connectivity gutted to benefit Chicago.  By the way, I wanted to give a kudo to the Cleveland CO staff who I have found superior to the people I have dealt with at EWR. Keep up the good work and I hope you are here for a long time!

 

I think we touched on some of your question up thread

 

It needs to be pointed out that the LHR flight this past summer wasn't originally supposed to happen.  When CAL left LGW, CLE-LON was a gonner.  It so happened that CAL leased an advantageous slot from another airline at good connection times on both ends and at a price that made the economics work with a B757.  NOTHING WAS GUARANTEED FOR 2010.  CAL said earlier this summer that the 2010 flight depended on a similar arrangement.  Apparently this did not happen.  Don't read too much into this that CAL is not committed to CLE.  I think transatlantic will still happen, but I think it will be FRA.  After all, being is STAR with LH makes a FRA tie-up more efficient.

 

It been rumored that the LHR slot came from Lufthansa as a "gift" for Continental joining star alliance.

 

Which is why the announcement to serve LHR came late.  Lufthansa has previously wanted to service Cleveland as a cargo hub, so to me it makes more sense for Paris service to end (in the short term) since that is an Air France Hub (skyteam founding airline) and add a CLE-FRA flight.

 

Hopefully, for my own personal gain, the CLE-LHR flight returns.

 

 

Oh i used to fly JFK-LAX.... it's all B757's now tho

 

That's why I fly United, their three class service is the best.

 

Yea, but on Delta you get me.

Yea, but on Delta you get me.

 

Thats a loaded statement.  Especially with the air marshalls it's hard to join the "mile high club"!  I think my membership to that club expired in '01.

Yea, but on Delta you get me.

 

Thats a loaded statement. Especially with the air marshalls it's hard to join the "mile high club"! I think my membership to that club expired in '01.

 

TMI!!!!!!!

Yea, but on Delta you get me.

 

Thats a loaded statement. Especially with the air marshalls it's hard to join the "mile high club"! I think my membership to that club expired in '01.

 

TMI!!!!!!!

 

I have "private" accomodations lol... well semi-private (damn co-pilot),,, anyway back on topic

Yea, but on Delta you get me.

 

Thats a loaded statement.  Especially with the air marshalls it's hard to join the "mile high club"!  I think my membership to that club expired in '01.

 

TMI!!!!!!!

 

LOL

 

Yea, but on Delta you get me.

 

Thats a loaded statement.  Especially with the air marshalls it's hard to join the "mile high club"!  I think my membership to that club expired in '01.

 

TMI!!!!!!!

 

I have "private" accomodations lol... well semi-private (damn co-pilot),,, anyway back on topic

 

So you're the big cheese?  You need to take from video of a landing for us.  I wish I had the opportunity to sit inthe cockpit on a landing.  The closest ive gotten is on one of those gulfstream plane with no FA.  I was in the first seat right behind the captain.

it's the best seat in the house, isn't it?  Captain is LEFT seat, not right.  I do have some pictures I can post taken on a 3-mile final to SLC.  I wasn't flying, just deadheading.....

it's the best seat in the house, isn't it?  Captain is LEFT seat, not right.  I do have some pictures I can post taken on a 3-mile final to SLC.  I wasn't flying, just deadheading.....

 

Please do!!

Sorry I should have been more specific.  By "our" gateway to Europe I meant all of us, as in US citizens, world business people, immigrants, New York Harbor, Ellis Island and on we go back in history... I didn't mean Cleveland.  I am very aware of Cleveland's flights and acutally was a customer on the LGW flight numerous times (didn't like the long hours on a cramped 757, but direct to home is good).

 

I appreciate the history of NYC as a gateway, but don't understand why it would matter for people transacting business between the Midwest/south and Europe.  Which might be why there are several non-coastal US cities with direct European flights.  I know that doesn't mean the economics are there for Cleveland to be one of them, but it also means NYC does not, in fact, suck up all the international travel.

 

Don't read too much into it, I was just generalizing about the volume of traffic into the NY area airports from Europe vs other later-comers like Cleveland and Pittsburgh vying for their share of the pie.  It's probably not unrealistic to remember that there are business and leisure travelers from Europe riding back via American carriers (more so now thanks to open-skies).  I know from years of business in Europe that most people there looking for a holiday in the States head for New York (and many to Orlando-Disney) before they even consider any other vacation destinations.  I'm sure our American carriers are acutely aware of this.

Another store being added to the Airmall:

 

AIRMALL® at Cleveland Hopkins International Airport (CLE) Signs Lease with Swatch

 

- Stylish Watch Retailer Expected to Open Unit in 2010 -

 

CLEVELAND, Dec. 14 /PRNewswire/ -- Travelers in search of stylish watches, jewelry and accessories will soon be able to shop at Swatch at the AIRMALL® at Cleveland Hopkins International Airport (CLE). BAA Cleveland, developer of the AIRMALL® at CLE, has signed a lease with the retailer. Swatch is expected to open a unit (450 sq. ft) on Concourse C in February 2010.

 

"BAA Cleveland is pleased to add a respected international retailer such as Swatch to the specialty retail program at the new AIRMALL® at CLE," said Tina LaForte, vice president of BAA Cleveland. "Moreover, travelers will be able to shop for Swatch's watches, jewelry and accessories knowing that they are paying 'Regular Mall Prices...Guaranteed.' It's part of the AIRMALL® promise."

 

http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/airmallr-at-cleveland-hopkins-international-airport-cle-signs-lease-with-swatch-79230092.html

 

 

Im sitting at CLE right now, and i cant be more impressed with the transition it has made in the span of 6 months.  The main area between the continental and southwest concourses looks great and clean.  Looking forward to the additional restaurants and shops to open up.

Im sitting at CLE right now, and i cant be more impressed with the transition it has made in the span of 6 months. The main area between the continental and southwest concourses looks great and clean. Looking forward to the additional restaurants and shops to open up.

 

Too bad the vast majority of casual travellers changing planes between Continental's C and D concourses will never see this area unless they are on a mind-numbing severe delay.  The types of delays that do not make for happy shoppers.

Im sitting at CLE right now, and i cant be more impressed with the transition it has made in the span of 6 months.  The main area between the continental and southwest concourses looks great and clean.  Looking forward to the additional restaurants and shops to open up.

 

Too bad the vast majority of casual travellers changing planes between Continental's C and D concourses will never see this area unless they are on a mind-numbing severe delay.  The types of delays that do not make for happy shoppers.

 

The entire concourse ha changed.  D wasn't that bad to begin with.  In C  Burger King is gone and the entire area is fresher and lighter.  Travelers - business and leisure - appreciate that. 

 

We're a hub and not everyone has a Club Membership.  Most flights have 45-75 minute connections layovers so this is welcomed.

The change is definitely welcomed--but as for many things run by our city I believe it was poorly executed.  There should have been a larger overall plan to incorporate Continental into the existing A concourse and spread the traffic out through the entire structure.

 

I wonder how long before the tenants are singing the "my lease is too high" blues due to lack of traffic in our new mall area?  I give it until 2011 tops....    :wink:

The change is definitely welcomed--but as for many things run by our city I believe it was poorly executed.  There should have been a larger overall plan to incorporate Continental into the existing A concourse and spread the traffic out through the entire structure.

 

I wonder how long before the tenants are singing the "my lease is too high" blues due to lack of traffic in our new mall area?  I give it until 2011 tops....    ;)

 

sorry but if continental or any other airline does not want to lease space, the city cannot make them lease more.

 

Secondly, how can the city tell Continental (or any other airline) how to manage their fleet or operations?

 

Obviously, Contental (at this moment) doesn't have enough traffic to lease more gate space.

The change is definitely welcomed--but as for many things run by our city I believe it was poorly executed.  There should have been a larger overall plan to incorporate Continental into the existing A concourse and spread the traffic out through the entire structure.

 

I wonder how long before the tenants are singing the "my lease is too high" blues due to lack of traffic in our new mall area?  I give it until 2011 tops....    ;)

 

sorry but if continental or any other airline does not want to lease space, the city cannot make them lease more.

 

Secondly, how can the city tell Continental (or any other airline) how to manage their fleet or operations?

 

Obviously, Contental (at this moment) doesn't have enough traffic to lease more gate space.

 

I was implying that D Concourse should not have been built.  Woulda coulda shoulda--we have to live with it now.  Just an opinion....

The change is definitely welcomed--but as for many things run by our city I believe it was poorly executed.  There should have been a larger overall plan to incorporate Continental into the existing A concourse and spread the traffic out through the entire structure.

 

I wonder how long before the tenants are singing the "my lease is too high" blues due to lack of traffic in our new mall area?  I give it until 2011 tops....    ;)

 

sorry but if continental or any other airline does not want to lease space, the city cannot make them lease more.

 

Secondly, how can the city tell Continental (or any other airline) how to manage their fleet or operations?

 

Obviously, Contental (at this moment) doesn't have enough traffic to lease more gate space.

 

I was implying that D Concourse should not have been built.  Woulda coulda shoulda--we have to live with it now.  Just an opinion....

 

No...A is to far for connections and leased to other carriers who were using the gates to keep continental from expanding any further.  At that point in time US Airways, United and American were fighting Continental with short haul flights along the east coast and midsouth.  The terminal was too small for all of the airports operations and there was no choice but to build.

 

Continental primarily paid for the D Concourse.  The only issue I have with D, is there is no connection to the main terminal.  That was a huge mistake.

The change is definitely welcomed--but as for many things run by our city I believe it was poorly executed. There should have been a larger overall plan to incorporate Continental into the existing A concourse and spread the traffic out through the entire structure.

 

I wonder how long before the tenants are singing the "my lease is too high" blues due to lack of traffic in our new mall area? I give it until 2011 tops.... ;)

 

sorry but if continental or any other airline does not want to lease space, the city cannot make them lease more.

 

Secondly, how can the city tell Continental (or any other airline) how to manage their fleet or operations?

 

Obviously, Contental (at this moment) doesn't have enough traffic to lease more gate space.

 

I was implying that D Concourse should not have been built. Woulda coulda shoulda--we have to live with it now. Just an opinion....

 

No...A is to far for connections and leased to other carriers who were using the gates to keep continental from expanding any further. At that point in time US Airways, United and American were fighting Continental with short haul flights along the east coast and midsouth. The terminal was too small for all of the airports operations and there was no choice but to build.

 

Continental primarily paid for the D Concourse. The only issue I have with D, is there is no connection to the main terminal. That was a huge mistake.

 

How can you say D shouldn't have been built?  What a myopic statement.  D was built as an RJ terminal to facilitate Continentals growth in CLE.  Concourse A is seems empty because alot of its gates are "common" gates and owned by the aiport and also srviced airlines that have cut back or eliminated service such as TWA for one plus the merger of USAirawys and America West.

Sorry pilot, but from a consumer's perspective, D is the worst thing to happen at Hopkins.  Everyone I know groans when they learn their flight is taking off/coming in to D as the trek to the main concourse is incredibly long and arduous.  My Mom, who is a RARE flier, just went through this and even though I had warned her it was long and told her how to get there, called me THREE TIMES before she got to her gate just to make sure she wasn't lost or going the wrong way.  And when my sister flies in with her little kid, it's a VERY long trek for them, she hates landing at D.  My boss is perpetually late for flights (I know, his fault) but always makes it, unless he's in D, as he can never get there in time.  It's just the concourse people love to hate.

Yes Sorry MD--I was just speaking on behalf of the casual and business traveller consumer, not a major airline running their operation.  The airport as it stands makes no sense to a retailer paying a lot of money for a lease.  If you think of the other major hubs, the retail is focused between the concourses of the major carrier--not off to the side. 

 

I agree the D concourse made sense for Continental--but not for the city who leases the spaces.  In retrospect they could have refitted the A to deal with RJ's and offered special deals to the other carriers to rearrange the space between the A and the also under-utilized B concourses.  Give Continental a deal on the A concourse and I'm sure they would have forgone on paying for their own D.

 

As stated above, doesn't matter now and we have to deal with what we've been given....and I am glad we have Continental sticking around CLE.

Sorry pilot, but from a consumer's perspective, D is the worst thing to happen at Hopkins.  Everyone I know groans when they learn their flight is taking off/coming in to D as the trek to the main concourse is incredibly long and arduous.  My Mom, who is a RARE flier, just went through this and even though I had warned her it was long and told her how to get there, called me THREE TIMES before she got to her gate just to make sure she wasn't lost or going the wrong way.  And when my sister flies in with her little kid, it's a VERY long trek for them, she hates landing at D.  My boss is perpetually late for flights (I know, his fault) but always makes it, unless he's in D, as he can never get there in time.  It's just the concourse people love to hate.

 

I disagree it was the worse thing to happen, the execution itself was not handled well.  Like I said earlier, a connection to the main terminal should have been built.

 

The concourse can serves 737 planes, however, Continental use Hopkins as an RJ farm so that where the RJ flights are serviced.  During peak hours we get more 737s, but still the majority of RJ flights are from D. 

 

Nobody should complain.  You know when book what type of plane you will be on, all airlines and third party sites provide seating maps.  The continental provides  transportation for seniors, disabled and if you ask, those running late. 

Yes Sorry MD--I was just speaking on behalf of the casual and business traveller consumer, not a major airline running their operation. The airport as it stands makes no sense to a retailer paying a lot of money for a lease. If you think of the other major hubs, the retail is focused between the concourses of the major carrier--not off to the side.

 

I agree the D concourse made sense for Continental--but not for the city who leases the spaces. In retrospect they could have refitted the A to deal with RJ's and offered special deals to the other carriers to rearrange the space between the A and the also under-utilized B concourses. Give Continental a deal on the A concourse and I'm sure they would have forgone on paying for their own D.

 

As stated above, doesn't matter now and we have to deal with what we've been given....and I am glad we have Continental sticking around CLE.

 

LOL D is NO farther and is in fact alot closer than if I am catching a continental flight out of one the far end gates at Terminal C in Newark; or, as I frquently have flights departing from E in ATL, even with the shuttle train D is still alot closer.  Granted, there should have been a direct link from the ticketing area but I chalk that up to doing the Project on the cheap.  I know it seems like an inconvenience but getting to D is still easier that some gates at a lot of airports

Yes Sorry MD--I was just speaking on behalf of the casual and business traveller consumer, not a major airline running their operation. The airport as it stands makes no sense to a retailer paying a lot of money for a lease. If you think of the other major hubs, the retail is focused between the concourses of the major carrier--not off to the side.

 

I agree the D concourse made sense for Continental--but not for the city who leases the spaces. In retrospect they could have refitted the A to deal with RJ's and offered special deals to the other carriers to rearrange the space between the A and the also under-utilized B concourses. Give Continental a deal on the A concourse and I'm sure they would have forgone on paying for their own D.

 

As stated above, doesn't matter now and we have to deal with what we've been given....and I am glad we have Continental sticking around CLE.

 

LOL D is NO farther and is in fact alot closer than if I am catching a continental flight out of one the far end gates at Terminal C in Newark; or, as I frquently have flights departing from E in ATL, even with the shuttle train D is still alot closer. Granted, there should have been a direct link from the ticketing area but I chalk that up to doing the Project on the cheap. I know it seems like an inconvenience but getting to D is still easier that some gates at a lot of airports

 

I'm not talking distance of walking--I'm talking retail traffic.  Trust me--I know D concourse is not as bad as many CLE hubbers make it out to be!

 

Think about CLT or EWR or PHL or DTW.  The main retail is between concourses of a hub airline where many people are making connections.  In CLE they are off to the side (between A/B/C rather than between C and D, and will not be seen by many of the Continental travelers who walk from one gate to their next without passing the retail area.

Yes Sorry MD--I was just speaking on behalf of the casual and business traveller consumer, not a major airline running their operation.  The airport as it stands makes no sense to a retailer paying a lot of money for a lease.  If you think of the other major hubs, the retail is focused between the concourses of the major carrier--not off to the side. 

I agree the D concourse made sense for Continental--but not for the city who leases the spaces.  In retrospect they could have refitted the A to deal with RJ's and offered special deals to the other carriers to rearrange the space between the A and the also under-utilized B concourses.  Give Continental a deal on the A concourse and I'm sure they would have forgone on paying for their own D.

 

As stated above, doesn't matter now and we have to deal with what we've been given....and I am glad we have Continental sticking around CLE.

The services at hopkins are centrally located between all concourses, what are you talking about??

 

I disagree considering AT THAT TIME each concourse had it's own security.

 

A person connecting would have had to clear security to make a connection.  It didn't make sense and today, as a uber user of the airport, it still makes no sense.  The C councouses first few gates are not close to the main terminal.  It's a LONG WALK between concourses!  So you would actually walk further to get to A then the current set up.

LOL D is NO farther and is in fact alot closer than if I am catching a continental flight out of one the far end gates at Terminal C in Newark; or, as I frquently have flights departing from E in ATL, even with the shuttle train D is still alot closer...I know it seems like an inconvenience but getting to D is still easier that some gates at a lot of airports

 

The big perception of D as a pain is by Clevelanders, people who live here and have that as their point of exit again and again and again. They groan when D is their concourse.  We're talking largely about people flying into smaller or more manageable airports.  MKE, Sky Harbor, Midwest, Nashville, places like that.  Not business travelers jetting in and out of places like Newark.

Yes Sorry MD--I was just speaking on behalf of the casual and business traveller consumer, not a major airline running their operation. The airport as it stands makes no sense to a retailer paying a lot of money for a lease. If you think of the other major hubs, the retail is focused between the concourses of the major carrier--not off to the side.

I agree the D concourse made sense for Continental--but not for the city who leases the spaces. In retrospect they could have refitted the A to deal with RJ's and offered special deals to the other carriers to rearrange the space between the A and the also under-utilized B concourses. Give Continental a deal on the A concourse and I'm sure they would have forgone on paying for their own D.

 

As stated above, doesn't matter now and we have to deal with what we've been given....and I am glad we have Continental sticking around CLE.

The services at hopkins are centrally located between all concourses, what are you talking about??

 

I disagree considering AT THAT TIME each concourse had it's own security.

 

A person connecting would have had to clear security to make a connection.   It didn't make sense and today, as a uber user of the airport, it still makes no sense. The C councouses first few gates are not close to the main terminal. It's a LONG WALK between concourses! So you would actually walk further to get to A then the current set up.

 

And once again MTS, we are talking about travelers changing flights on Continental.  So where is the retail located in relation to the Continental passengers making connections.  I'm sure there are a couple making connections to different carriers, but my guess that is in the single digits per day at CLE.

 

All I'm saying is give it time:  the retail lessees at CLE will be beating on the city for new deals because they are seeing little traffic at their stores, other than local hubbers that are unlikely to purchase big ticket items other than a newspaper and bottle of water.

Yes Sorry MD--I was just speaking on behalf of the casual and business traveller consumer, not a major airline running their operation.  The airport as it stands makes no sense to a retailer paying a lot of money for a lease.  If you think of the other major hubs, the retail is focused between the concourses of the major carrier--not off to the side. 

 

I agree the D concourse made sense for Continental--but not for the city who leases the spaces.  In retrospect they could have refitted the A to deal with RJ's and offered special deals to the other carriers to rearrange the space between the A and the also under-utilized B concourses.  Give Continental a deal on the A concourse and I'm sure they would have forgone on paying for their own D.

 

As stated above, doesn't matter now and we have to deal with what we've been given....and I am glad we have Continental sticking around CLE.

 

LOL D is NO farther and is in fact alot closer than if I am catching a continental flight out of one the far end gates at Terminal C in Newark; or, as I frquently have flights departing from E in ATL, even with the shuttle train D is still alot closer.  Granted, there should have been a direct link from the ticketing area but I chalk that up to doing the Project on the cheap.  I know it seems like an inconvenience but getting to D is still easier that some gates at a lot of airports

 

I'm not talking distance of walking--I'm talking retail traffic.  Trust me--I know D concourse is not as bad as many CLE hubbers make it out to be!

 

Think about CLT or EWR or PHL or DTW.  The main retail is between concourses of a hub airline where many people are making connections.  In CLE they are off to the side (between A/B/C rather than between C and D, and will not be seen by many of the Continental travelers who walk from one gate to their next without passing the retail area.

 

EWR, PHL or DTW?  At Newark the retail is on the concourses and behind the ticket counters (Terminal A & C)  I dont understand what your saying.

Yes Sorry MD--I was just speaking on behalf of the casual and business traveller consumer, not a major airline running their operation. The airport as it stands makes no sense to a retailer paying a lot of money for a lease. If you think of the other major hubs, the retail is focused between the concourses of the major carrier--not off to the side.

 

I agree the D concourse made sense for Continental--but not for the city who leases the spaces. In retrospect they could have refitted the A to deal with RJ's and offered special deals to the other carriers to rearrange the space between the A and the also under-utilized B concourses. Give Continental a deal on the A concourse and I'm sure they would have forgone on paying for their own D.

 

As stated above, doesn't matter now and we have to deal with what we've been given....and I am glad we have Continental sticking around CLE.

 

LOL D is NO farther and is in fact alot closer than if I am catching a continental flight out of one the far end gates at Terminal C in Newark; or, as I frquently have flights departing from E in ATL, even with the shuttle train D is still alot closer. Granted, there should have been a direct link from the ticketing area but I chalk that up to doing the Project on the cheap. I know it seems like an inconvenience but getting to D is still easier that some gates at a lot of airports

 

I'm not talking distance of walking--I'm talking retail traffic. Trust me--I know D concourse is not as bad as many CLE hubbers make it out to be!

 

Think about CLT or EWR or PHL or DTW. The main retail is between concourses of a hub airline where many people are making connections. In CLE they are off to the side (between A/B/C rather than between C and D, and will not be seen by many of the Continental travelers who walk from one gate to their next without passing the retail area.

 

EWR, PHL or DTW? At Newark the retail is on the concourses and behind the ticket counters (Terminal A & C) I dont understand what your saying.

 

At EWR,  terminal C for instance, the retail is focused between the three concourses, ALL OF WHICH ARE CONTINENTAL.  So travellers moving from one concourse to another have a high probability of having to pass these establishments.

 

At CLE a traveller passing from C to D changing planes on Continental would not see much in the tunnel.  So my point, once again, is that the new retail is great, but not IDEAL for the lessees who hope to catch casual shopping travellers in between planes. 

At EWR,  terminal C for instance, the retail is focused between the three concourses, ALL OF WHICH ARE CONTINENTAL.  So travellers moving from one concourse to another have a high probability of having to pass these establishments.

 

At CLE a traveller passing from C to D changing planes on Continental would not see much in the tunnel.  So my point, once again, is that the new retail is great, but not IDEAL for the lessees who hope to catch casual shopping travellers in between planes. 

 

The majority of retail at EWR is on each concourse.  As I said before there are a few shops behind security on the passageway that leads to each concouse, but the majority of retail is on each concourse itself.

At EWR, terminal C for instance, the retail is focused between the three concourses, ALL OF WHICH ARE CONTINENTAL. So travellers moving from one concourse to another have a high probability of having to pass these establishments.

 

At CLE a traveller passing from C to D changing planes on Continental would not see much in the tunnel. So my point, once again, is that the new retail is great, but not IDEAL for the lessees who hope to catch casual shopping travellers in between planes.

 

The majority of retail at EWR is on each concourse. As I said before there are a few shops behind security on the passageway that leads to each concouse, but the majority of retail is on each concourse itself.

 

OK MTS--you're thinking like me now.  And where at CLE is the MAJORITY of the retail....?

At EWR,  terminal C for instance, the retail is focused between the three concourses, ALL OF WHICH ARE CONTINENTAL.  So travellers moving from one concourse to another have a high probability of having to pass these establishments.

 

At CLE a traveller passing from C to D changing planes on Continental would not see much in the tunnel.  So my point, once again, is that the new retail is great, but not IDEAL for the lessees who hope to catch casual shopping travellers in between planes. 

 

The majority of retail at EWR is on each concourse.  As I said before there are a few shops behind security on the passageway that leads to each concouse, but the majority of retail is on each concourse itself.

 

OK MTS--you're thinking like me now.  And where at CLE is the MAJORITY of the retail....?

 

in the main terminal, however all of those airports have been completely rebuilt.

 

Also, earlier you said, the retail was focused "between concourses"...

 

I'm not talking distance of walking--I'm talking retail traffic.  Trust me--I know D concourse is not as bad as many CLE hubbers make it out to be!

 

Think about CLT or EWR or PHL or DTW.  The main retail is between concourses of a hub airline where many people are making connections.  In CLE they are off to the side (between A/B/C rather than between C and D, and will not be seen by many of the Continental travelers who walk from one gate to their next without passing the retail area.

 

 

....Not on the concourse.

 

anyway it is what it is.  Without a tear down and rebuild there isn't anything we can do at the moment.

Then we agree...we cannot tear down and it is less than ideal. 

 

All I was saying is that hopefully the lease rates factored in this lack of traffic--otherwise we shall see an exodus in the near future.

ALWAYS remember that CLE is still a rebuilt/refurbrbished 1950s/60s terminal.  In the pre mid-70's era, the main terminal was a spacious, though dark, area.  Coffee shop, full service restaurant and a couple of gift shops.  Ticketing was on the lower level.  You can only build upon the starting blocks that exist.  Yes, it's less than ideal but unless a totally new pax facility is built it is what it is.

ALWAYS remember that CLE is still a rebuilt/refurbrbished 1950s/60s terminal. In the pre mid-70's era, the main terminal was a spacious, though dark, area. Coffee shop, full service restaurant and a couple of gift shops. Ticketing was on the lower level. You can only build upon the starting blocks that exist. Yes, it's less than ideal but unless a totally new pax facility is built it is what it is.

 

I agree--and if there was going to be any major overhauls I think the time was prior to building the D concourse.  But alas--we have it now.

 

I do remember going there as a child, when flying was glamorous.  One of the memories that remains with me from the Hopkins of long ago--seeing a pay-toilet for the first time and finding it hard to comprehend that my dad had to put a nickel or dime in to let me use the bathroom stall!  Would be interesting to see some photos from that era if someone has a site up.

Was just checking out these postcards on the official site:

 

http://www.clevelandairport.com/Portals/Documents/CLE%2080th%20Postcards.pdf

 

I had totally forgotten about the observation deck out there at the end of (I think) concourse B.  We used to go up there so my mother could smoke--my how times have changed!

Was just checking out these postcards on the official site:

 

http://www.clevelandairport.com/Portals/Documents/CLE%2080th%20Postcards.pdf

 

I had totally forgotten about the observation deck out there at the end of (I think) concourse B.  We used to go up there so my mother could smoke--my how times have changed!

 

Yep concourse B.  My brother and I would run from B to A.

I drove by today on I-480 and could have sworn I saw a 747 at the end of concourse A.  I could not see what airline

Is the observation deck still open? Anyone remember this classic opening sequence....  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JAsedgA6GBA

Thought it would be kind of funny to have "D.O. Guerro" paged!

Is the observation deck still open? Anyone remember this classic opening sequence....  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JAsedgA6GBA

Thought it would be kind of funny to have "D.O. Guerro" paged!

 

NO