Except for the employees, this is not a draconian event.  As the hub was almost all O&D anyway, UAL is keeping all of the important n/s destinations.  What's being cut are the spoke cities that generated little or no O&D anyway.  Some of those cities only had a one or two departures a day.  In reality, how many people fly to places like RIC, PVD, SYR, ROC, GRR, GSP, etc. from CLE?  Obviously not many.

 

Where other carriers might add some frequency is to places like RDU, SEA, PHX, SLC, PDX....

 

Delta has a significant focus city ops in RDU and there is a CLE demand...SLC for west coast connections.  Alaska is in expansion mode and I think there is a SEA/PDX demand from CLE.  AA to PHX.

 

With what 50 destinations on UAL, the terminal gates will be full of RON jets. 

 

This is also an opportunity to start demolition of old concourses and construction of a new 21st century terminal/concourses - say 50 gates (no that's not too much). 

The news that United is pulling its hub out of Cleveland is an opportunity to go before the Cleveland business community and tell them that a) the airlines are retreating and won't be coming back and that b) there is a solution: Intercity passenger rail, but that they will have to work hard to make that happen and finally, c) that unless they become actively involved, Cleveland will become a third-rate destination.

Believe me when I tell you that we here in Cincy feel your pain.  To go from hub-status to no-status hurts incredibly, and (like mentioned above) there's not going to be any quick-time, quick-fix, magical aerodrome-solutions.  Neither in Cleveland nor Cincinnati are any hot-shot, "feel-good" airlines gonna step in and fill our losses.  Needless to say, our two cherished metros are now needing to cope with what was but now isn't.  And it really does hurt. (Just ask either Pittsburgh or St. Louis... )

The news that United is pulling its hub out of Cleveland is an opportunity to go before the Cleveland business community and tell them that a) the airlines are retreating and won't be coming back and that b) there is a solution: Intercity passenger rail, but that they will have to work hard to make that happen and finally, c) that unless they become actively involved, Cleveland will become a third-rate destination.

Believe me when I tell you that we here in Cincy feel your pain.  To go from hub-status to no-status hurts incredibly, and (like mentioned above) there's not going to be any quick-time, quick-fix, magical aerodrome-solutions.  Neither in Cleveland nor Cincinnati are any hot-shot, "feel-good" airlines gonna step in and fill our losses.  Needless to say, our two cherished metros are now needing to cope with what was but now isn't.  And it really does hurt. (Just ask either Pittsburgh or St. Louis... )

 

Cleveland and Cincinnati would have had at least SOMETHING to fill the void if Kasich hadn't killed the 3C rail initiative. United's withdrawal only serves to show how foolish his actions were. Now we have a double whammy: Retreating airlines and NO train service.  :-(

 

Aside from that, full implementation of the Ohio Hub plan would have had 110 mph service to many of the cities UA is pulling out of.

This might be more appropriate for another thread (sorry in advance if so), but I wonder how the loss of the UA hub will affect Cleveland's potential to land conventions and events in the future, such a Presidential convention, etc.

At a Super Bowl party today, I ran into a friend that I haven't seen in a while that travels a lot for work. I asked him if he used United (partly because I wanted to see if he thought the closing of CLE would impact congestion at O'Hare). He laughed and said "who uses United, I fly American". There is really no love for United, even in it's HQ city (I'm in Chicago btw).

^^i don't think terribly bc every major market still has direct flights here. I don't think not having flights from Austin, Burlington and KC will affect that

Someone help me out here.  Couldn't an airline using a hub-and-spoke network literally have a hub anywhere and it wouldn't matter much whether or not the locals used the airline?  A hub is simply where passengers make flight connections, with most of these passengers being from other cities.  So the "profitability" of that hub is reliant on other factors mostly beyond a locality's control.  Factors (such as MD88 said above) like whether or not the airline actually wants to have a hub in said city. 

 

An example might be FedEx and their operations "hub" in Memphis.  Of course Memphis is centrally-located which is a plus, but 99% (I'm guessing, but it's the vast majority) of the packages that FedEx routs through Memphis are from elsewhere in the United States.  There is a slightly different dynamic for airlines of course, but the same idea seems to apply if we're talking about a hub-and-spoke network, right?

 

I can't remember where I heard or read this, but someone mentioned yesterday that United may be using this as a ploy to get a sweetheart deal from Cleveland officials regarding taxes, airport renovations, etc.

 

You can have a hub anywhere, that is why Charlotte is a hub city. However, where the hub is duplicative, you do not get the economies of scale. When CLE was a Continental Hub, there was CLE, NEW and HOU. Cleveland served the Northern cities and Continental traffic flooded through there. It was still a smaller hub for continental and there were few non-stop international flights from CLE. When you had the merger, United had a much larger hub in Chicago which is essentially only an hour flight from CLE so it only made sense that the traffic would go there.  The CLE hub is a victim of geography more than anything else. There are just too many cities close to it with hubs for other airlines.

 

This was the same for Cincinnati, Detroit was a much larger airport and they had a huge state of the art terminal they opened that was superior to what was in Cincinnati. There was no need for CVG, MSP, and DET to be so close together. CVG while still technically a Delta hub shrunk considerably. It was a victim of geography too. So was Memphis being so close to Atlanta.

 

I think Charlotte is going to shrink a bit after the American merger because American has Miami, a much larger city and international gateway as the Southeast presence. They are not going to need to have Washington, Philly, Charlotte and Miami as major hubs, plus Dallas has a strong Southern reach too. I think Charlotte survives but it will shrink like CVG and other smaller hubs.

 

 

Ok, sorry for these stories...but it is too funny. I texted a friend of mine on Friday that flies over 300 days a year for work to snag me a copy of that Cleveland Dossier Hemispheres Magazine. He just texted me back "I'm an American flier, not United. Yuk..LOL!". Does anyone like United??

Does anybody who lives in this area really fly to places like Columbus or Pittsburgh?  I’m going to Dayton next week for a class and flying was never considered.  Quite frankly, even if one is going to Chicago, when you factor in getting to the airport, waiting/security time at the airport, getting a car/cab/train there, and getting to your end destination it is just about as quick to drive.  This doesn’t even include the potential for delays.

Does anybody who lives in this area really fly to places like Columbus or Pittsburgh?  I’m going to Dayton next week for a class and flying was never considered.  Quite frankly, even if one is going to Chicago, when you factor in getting to the airport, waiting/security time at the airport, getting a car/cab/train there, and getting to your end destination it is just about as quick to drive.  This doesn’t even include the potential for delays.

 

E Rocc...Probably mostly business travelers on expense accounts fly locally. The high fares and short distances probably deter most other travelers, which is why intercity passenger rail makes sense. It's silly to have flights between Cleveland and Erie.

Does anybody who lives in this area really fly to places like Columbus or Pittsburgh?  Im going to Dayton next week for a class and flying was never considered.  Quite frankly, even if one is going to Chicago, when you factor in getting to the airport, waiting/security time at the airport, getting a car/cab/train there, and getting to your end destination it is just about as quick to drive.  This doesnt even include the potential for delays.

 

E Rocc...Probably mostly business travelers on expense accounts fly locally. The high fares and short distances probably deter most other travelers, which is why intercity passenger rail makes sense. It's silly to have flights between Cleveland and Erie.

 

Except when the intercity rail that is proposed would take 6+ hours to go from Cleveland to Cincinnati, when the drive is only 4.

Except when the intercity rail that is proposed would take 6+ hours to go from Cleveland to Cincinnati, when the drive is only 4.

 

Good thing that wasn't the plan, though Kasich's lie stuck. Besides most new services started at slower speeds and some got even slower. But adding more departures is what drove mostly huge ridership increases since the first year... http://freepdfhosting.com/4808eafeb0.pdf

 

I'm sure CLE will not do as well without a hub, but it's not airline armageddon. Losing hubs don't destroy economies anymore. See Pittsburgh.

Except when the intercity rail that is proposed would take 6+ hours to go from Cleveland to Cincinnati, when the drive is only 4.

 

Good thing that wasn't the plan, though Kasich's lie stuck. Besides most new services started at slower speeds and some got even slower. But adding more departures is what drove mostly huge ridership increases since the first year... http://freepdfhosting.com/4808eafeb0.pdf

 

I'm sure CLE will not do as well without a hub, but it's not airline armageddon. Losing hubs don't destroy economies anymore. See Pittsburgh.

 

Well the PD originally reported that the trip would take around 6 hours.  In 2010, the travel time was revised to around 5 hours, 11 minutes.  That's hardly a powerful incentive to take the "high speed" train over driving.

All of those short hop flights are what made CLE a hub. Sure, very few people fly from Cleveland to just Dayton, Columbus, Erie, and other cities within 250 miles... But they are essential for making a hub work. If you live in Dayton or Erie and want to fly to San Francisco or Providence or Montreal, etc you need to fly to CLE and switch planes.

 

It may be easy to say "well, for most travelers the loss of those markets isn't a big deal." But don't forget, it was people connecting from and through those smaller cities that helped to fill flights to San Francisco and Denver and Boston that local Clevelanders enjoy. CLE was fortunate to have a strong O&D numbers, but it remains to be seen how the remaining destinations will do without the feed from these smaller markets.

 

Sure, there are a lot of key destinations left non stop. But at what frequency? It's one thing to have 6 flights to Boston, it's another to have 2. Using every other de-hubbing as a proxy it's naive to think that there won't be a continual decline in United service over the next two years. Then add in the anti United sentiment that's running around now and it'll accelerate the loss of what non stops remain. If people start choosing Delta or American with connections in hubs versus what United non stops remain just to spite United, you'll see an even further reduction in non stop service.

Except when the intercity rail that is proposed would take 6+ hours to go from Cleveland to Cincinnati, when the drive is only 4.

 

Good thing that wasn't the plan, though Kasich's lie stuck. Besides most new services started at slower speeds and some got even slower. But adding more departures is what drove mostly huge ridership increases since the first year... http://freepdfhosting.com/4808eafeb0.pdf

 

I'm sure CLE will not do as well without a hub, but it's not airline armageddon. Losing hubs don't destroy economies anymore. See Pittsburgh.

 

Well the PD originally reported that the trip would take around 6 hours.  In 2010, the travel time was revised to around 5 hours, 11 minutes.  That's hardly a powerful incentive to take the "high speed" train over driving.

 

Response posted here:

http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php/topic,18328.msg695285.html#msg695285

how do "landing fees" work?  is it based on the number of passengers, or simply number of landings?

 

How much of Hopkins budget is the landing fees?

 

(thanks)

Does anybody who lives in this area really fly to places like Columbus or Pittsburgh?  Im going to Dayton next week for a class and flying was never considered.  Quite frankly, even if one is going to Chicago, when you factor in getting to the airport, waiting/security time at the airport, getting a car/cab/train there, and getting to your end destination it is just about as quick to drive.  This doesnt even include the potential for delays.

 

I think flying to places like Akron/Canton, Youngtown, Dayton, Columbus, Toledo from Cleveland was a luxury and convenience that ended with 9/11. When you go could to the airport 20 minutes before your flight, breeze through security and hop on the plane for a short flight, it made the trip worthwhile. Now, you have to arrive 2 hours ahead of time for your flight and going through security is a hassle. People who would take those flights today fly charter flights thus eliminating the demand for them. Personally, I do not fly anywhere less than a 5 hour drive for me because it really wont save much time between the commute to/from the airport and the hassle of checking in security. THis assumes the option of a non-stop flight.

Now, you have to arrive 2 hours ahead of time for your flight and going through security is a hassle.

 

The first part of this statement is patently untrue.  The second part is very subjective, but outside of the worst "rush-hour" times, security takes 10 minutes or less in 90% of my trips.  Security for 10 minutes of my time is a fair trade-off.

Now, you have to arrive 2 hours ahead of time for your flight and going through security is a hassle.

 

The first part of this statement is patently untrue.  The second part is very subjective, but outside of the worst "rush-hour" times, security takes 10 minutes or less in 90% of my trips.  Security for 10 minutes of my time is a fair trade-off.

 

Also for those of us traveling on business, the time at the airport can be productive with emails and laptop set up in the United Club, while self-driving is not always productive, depending on your business. 

Cleveland Hopkins ‏@GoingPlacesCLE  18m

Director Smith: We will expand our strategy 4 positioning CLE 4 strength. Transition from "hub approach to life" to "local approach to life"

 

Cleveland Hopkins ‏@GoingPlacesCLE  22m

Smith: Removing the high cost structure associated w/a hub, the market will begin to experience lower airfares over time.

 

Cleveland Hopkins ‏@GoingPlacesCLE  25m

Director Smith: After United reductions this community will enjoy non-stop service to 35 markets served by 6 airlines.

 

Cleveland Hopkins ‏@GoingPlacesCLE  30m

Director Smith: Several have indicated their desire to add or start service at CLE pending United's decision to de-hub.

 

Cleveland Hopkins ‏@GoingPlacesCLE  33m

Director Smith: Over the last 8 years our Air Service development team has met face-to-face with 58 airlines to add or expand service at CLE

 

Michelle J. McFee ‏@mjarboe  35m

"Anyone who believes airlines won't close hubs when they merge, they're just gullible," expert tells @susanglaser: http://www.cleveland.com/travel/index.ssf/2014/02/united_only_need_three_hubs_sa.html#incart_river_default#incart_maj-story-1 …

 

Michelle J. McFee ‏@mjarboe  39m

MT @clevelanddotcom Airport Director Smith: #CLE not first mid-sized market to lose a hub. One of 2 last such markets to have a hub. #united

 

High Speed Rail Assn ‏@HSRail  1h

Cleveland joins Cincinnati, Memphis Pittsburgh and St. Louis in losing hub service. Story from Memphis http://www.usatoday.com/story/todayinthesky/2013/10/24/already-de-hubbed-memphis-hit-with-more-delta-cuts/3173535/

Now, you have to arrive 2 hours ahead of time for your flight and going through security is a hassle.

 

The first part of this statement is patently untrue.  The second part is very subjective, but outside of the worst "rush-hour" times, security takes 10 minutes or less in 90% of my trips.  Security for 10 minutes of my time is a fair trade-off.

 

The Point being, the days where you could pull in the garage 15-20 minutes before your flight and still catch it are over. It is much more of a hassle now. Business travelers adapt because they have to adapt but having the choice to fly from Cleveland to Akron or Toledo vs drive is an easy choice to make with the additional time spent in the airport. Add in the fact that some company budgets will not support flying those short distances anymore because of the additional costs too.

Now, you have to arrive 2 hours ahead of time for your flight and going through security is a hassle.

 

The first part of this statement is patently untrue.  The second part is very subjective, but outside of the worst "rush-hour" times, security takes 10 minutes or less in 90% of my trips.  Security for 10 minutes of my time is a fair trade-off.

 

The Point being, the days where you could pull in the garage 15-20 minutes before your flight and still catch it are over. It is much more of a hassle now. Business travelers adapt because they have to adapt but having the choice to fly from Cleveland to Akron or Toledo vs drive is an easy choice to make with the additional time spent in the airport. Add in the fact that some company budgets will not support flying those short distances anymore because of the additional costs too.

 

Only if you don't know what you're doing :)

 

I routinely go from my bedroom to my gate at Hopkins, start to finish, in 30 minutes.  If you're already checked in, no baggage, TSA Pre, etc it's not that difficult barring anything unusual happening....

Now, you have to arrive 2 hours ahead of time for your flight and going through security is a hassle.

 

The first part of this statement is patently untrue.  The second part is very subjective, but outside of the worst "rush-hour" times, security takes 10 minutes or less in 90% of my trips.  Security for 10 minutes of my time is a fair trade-off.

 

The Point being, the days where you could pull in the garage 15-20 minutes before your flight and still catch it are over. It is much more of a hassle now. Business travelers adapt because they have to adapt but having the choice to fly from Cleveland to Akron or Toledo vs drive is an easy choice to make with the additional time spent in the airport. Add in the fact that some company budgets will not support flying those short distances anymore because of the additional costs too.

 

Only if you don't know what you're doing :)

 

I routinely go from my bedroom to my gate at Hopkins, start to finish, in 30 minutes.  If you're already checked in, no baggage, TSA Pre, etc it's not that difficult barring anything unusual happening....

 

TSA Pre-approved helps, most flyers are not. Many business flyers are not because they are not necessarily road warriors.

This is the second time United ended it's hub in Cleveland? What was the excuse the first time?

Was continental profitable while here?

Smith: Removing the high cost structure associated w/a hub, the market will begin to experience lower airfares over time.

 

Ha!  Tell Cincinnati that.

^Happened in Pitt. 

^^It might be different here due to the efforts at keeping Continental/United happy.  Those efforts created an atmosphere completely lacking in competition for CLE's most frequent flyers.  In hindsight, the United for United campaign was probably not a smart move, considering that this outcome was largely inevitable.... probably even before the merger.  Airlines are operating with less and less hubs.

 

^^^That's a question I would like answered clearly.  The letter says that United has lost $$ over the last decade or so operating out of CLE.  But is that answer based solely on United's profit margin?... on Continental's profit margin prior to the merger?..... on the combined profit margin both before and after the merger?

Except when the intercity rail that is proposed would take 6+ hours to go from Cleveland to Cincinnati, when the drive is only 4.

 

Good thing that wasn't the plan, though Kasich's lie stuck. Besides most new services started at slower speeds and some got even slower. But adding more departures is what drove mostly huge ridership increases since the first year... http://freepdfhosting.com/4808eafeb0.pdf

 

I'm sure CLE will not do as well without a hub, but it's not airline armageddon. Losing hubs don't destroy economies anymore. See Pittsburgh.

 

Well the PD originally reported that the trip would take around 6 hours.  In 2010, the travel time was revised to around 5 hours, 11 minutes.  That's hardly a powerful incentive to take the "high speed" train over driving.

time saving are only part of the benefit driving sucks, and you cant watch Netflix, work or Knit while you are driving. so while you may reach your destination faster you didn't get any work done while you were traveling.

 

Let's keep posts relevant to Hopkins Airport in this thread.

How did Frank come across at the press conference?

How did Frank come across at the press conference?

 

IMO pretty weak.  He seemed more accepting and disappointed.  I definitely didn't feel inspired after listening to both speeches.

 

http://www.wkyc.com/story/news/local/2014/02/03/mayor-jackson-to-address-united-cuts-at-hopkins/5177037/

^We knew the other shoe was going to drop as soon as United grabbed Continental -- which like the much bigger US Air-American merger, is just one more step toward the monopoly setup that the Sherman and Clayton Antitrust acts were designed to thwart.  United has long established itself as anti-Cleveland.  They've long felt that Cleveland bled their Chicago hub; so they conveniently all but pulled out of Cleveland in the late 1980s blaming on Big Bad (the City Council Prez) George Forbes who was ... so mean to them... yeah right...

 

... but as ugly as this announcement is, it could be a great opportunity.  3 decades ago, the old Friendship Intl. Airport outside Baltimore (long since rechristened as Thurgood Marshall-BWI), was floundering in DC (now Reagan ... choke-choke) National and Dulles' nearby shadow.  But then BWI went after Southwest and other hot new upstart airlines of the 1980s era and recast itself as the discount hub of the Mid-Atlantic/East Coast, and has been thriving ever since; Newark International made a similar move in the late 80s with the now-gone People's Express; today a bunch of discount carriers fly out of Newark  ... As has been noted, other midsized hubs like Pittsburgh and Cincy had taken their lumps as well... Now is not a time for CLE/Hopkins to hang its head, rather, its time for local officials to GET BUSY!

^

What could he say about it that looked encouraging? I am sure the mayors office has seen the writing on the wall for a few years now and trying to work behind the scenes to address it (either with new carriers or assurances from United). The city has no power in this situation. Even if they said they would punish United financially in some way, that would not change their decision.

Interesting numbers on the local news tonight about the "cost" to the airlines for each passenger.  At CLE it's $13.xx per passenger.  Same for Pittsburgh.  At Detroit Metro, it's $9.  At Minneapolis I think it was $6.  At Akron/Canton, it was $3.

 

http://www.19actionnews.com/category/240218/video-landing-page?autoStart=true&topVideoCatNo=default&clipId=9798537

This really sucks. The advantages of being at a hub are what happens when things go wrong. It's comforting to know I can bump flights or get put on another one in a timely manner if mine's cancelled at a major hub airport. Just the frequency at hub airports makes flying less stressful. So now Ohio has no major hub left. That means Cleveland needs to get aggressive marketing the airport to other airlines. Cleveland was one of the smallest hubs left, so I guess people are right that this isn't a shock...

 

I still think CLE can be a hub again. There is not much other competition in Ohio and it has rail connecting to its downtown. It sounds like it's overbuilt for its current passenger volume too (maybe similar to the situation at Memphis and Cincinnati?). For Gen Y, that rail connection to downtown is huge. Even LAX doesn't have rail to its downtown (though I think they're building a new light rail line connected to a people mover somewhat similar to what OAK is doing). Few airports in the United States have good transit connections. It sounds like Cleveland stands out for an airport its size.

 

Declines at Cincinnati and Pittsburgh just mean Cleveland has less competition. The only other major hub airport within a three hour drive of CLE is DTW. I think BWI is the model for recovery here. Cleveland should go after an airline that doesn't have much service at Detroit.

 

Director Smith, however, says he doesn't foresee a hub returning to Cleveland.

 

Not the right attitude...and Jackson's speech was pretty weak too...not very "mayoral." I've been following this in the media, and Cleveland officials sound tired and lacking in energy.

 

Overall, none of this is good for anyone who flies. These mega-mergers and super hubs are likely going to result in increased ticket prices and fewer flights. We've lost too many small and medium hubs in the United States.

I want CLE to become a Southwest focus city...or heck, if an airline like Frontier were looking to expand more into the Midwest, I know that their only focus cities are in Colorado, Delaware, and New Jersey.  I flew them last summer and had a nice experience.  As far as the legacy carriers are concerned, IMO they can pound salt.  Their monopoly on the industry thanks to deregulation has done nothing to improve air travel. 

Jet Blue has been expanding.  I'd take them as well.

^Yeah, I'd say those are good targets, but I'd be all over Virgin America. Limited Midwest competition (I think O'Hare is it), and it's one of the the best airlines IMO.

 

*Just realized Cleveland had a Great Lakes Brewery branch inside the airport. MASSIVE loss for United travelers with layovers in Cleveland...

 

 

how do "landing fees" work?  is it based on the number of passengers, or simply number of landings?

 

How much of Hopkins budget is the landing fees?

 

(thanks)

 

Not sure about Hopkins, but generally they are charged based on the gross weight of the aircraft.

What other airlines are left to establish a hub in Cleveland? With the consolidation that has gone on, Delta is in DET, MSP and even CVG is a small hub status so they are out. US Air and AMerican are merging and they have Philly and Chicago hubs.

 

Southwest has a different model and I thought Pittsburgh was almost a focus city for them. Frontier could be an option but from what I understand they have financial issues.  Jet Blue? Possibly a flight or two but I cant see Cleveland as a focus city. Maybe Air Canada or something?

What other airlines are left to establish a hub in Cleveland? With the consolidation that has gone on, Delta is in DET, MSP and even CVG is a small hub status so they are out. US Air and AMerican are merging and they have Philly and Chicago hubs.

 

Southwest has a different model and I thought Pittsburgh was almost a focus city for them. Frontier could be an option but from what I understand they have financial issues.  Jet Blue? Possibly a flight or two but I cant see Cleveland as a focus city. Maybe Air Canada or something?

 

I think a Hub is probably by now a losing proposition.  But if we get more carriers in it would yield more non stop destinations, to meaningful markets. 

 

I feel bad for the United employees and of course feel the shame as a Clevelander for losing hub status, but in the end I hope it makes my life as a frequent flier better-with more options and cheaper fares.   

As folks in Cincy have discovered, the fares haven't come down as hoped. It really takes new low cost carriers to come into the market to bring down fares.

 

As an example of how fares might increase, the following major markets will still have nonstop service but will not have competition from multiple carriers at CLE: Minneapolis, Atlanta, Charlotte, Philadelphia, Toronto, and Miami. Expect to see fares to these markets rise further for nonstop flights.

 

Conversely, with no nonstops to Phoenix or Seattle coming this spring/summer, fares will probably fall as you'll have 5 different carriers trying to compete for CLE passengers through one of their other hubs. The same is true for all the mid size markets lost. With nonstops gone, you'll probably pay less with multiple carriers competing to take you there via a different hub.

 

 

 

 

The USDOT Office of the Inspector General issued a report in September 2012 which found that in 2000 there were 10 airlines that, combined, carried 90% of domestic air travel. But after the AA-USAir merger, there would be only four airlines accounting for 85% of domestic flying. While this was causing higher fares, the report noted that it was also helping to restore profitability to the airline industry after its "lost decade" of the 2000s when it lost more money than it had enjoyed cumulative profits in all of the preceding century.

 

The Big Four airlines already have their hubs. They leave a 15% market share, which doesn't leave much traffic for smaller airlines to develop hubs in cities like Cleveland, or any of the many other airports like Pittsburgh, Cincinnati, St. Louis, Memphis which have a huge amount of excess airport capacity after they were de-hubbed. In short, don't expect a new hub operation to be established at Cleveland for a long time, if ever.

Director Smith, however, says he doesn't foresee a hub returning to Cleveland.

 

Not the right attitude...and Jackson's speech was pretty weak too...not very "mayoral." I've been following this in the media, and Cleveland officials sound tired and lacking in energy.

 

Overall, none of this is good for anyone who flies. These mega-mergers and super hubs are likely going to result in increased ticket prices and fewer flights. We've lost too many small and medium hubs in the United States.

 

 

But the director is right. It's not coming back. It really sucks, yes and also it pisses me off that the government basically let's this happen - well, fine but support the dehubbed airports. At least let them get back some advantage and get fees down. It's ridiculous.

 

 

It's done.  In life you work towards your best but you prepare for the worst.  The "United for the Hub" effort may have delayed the inevitable, but the day of recognizing is here and looking at Pitt and Cincy and StL and countless other mid sized cities and hubs...we knew this was coming.  I hope that behind the public "We love United" front they've been working behind the scenes in preparation for this day.  How awesome would it be to announce just weeks after this a major increase SWA or Jet Blue coming to town...ramp up's in new service that coincide with United's pull out.

 

This statement from Seth Young, director of the Center for Aviation Studies at The Ohio State University, is how the leadership in the region should be thinking:

 

"Young said that while in the short run, United's pullout will mean a lot of empty gates at Hopkins' Concourse D, this is an opportunity not only for a competing carrier to expand in Cleveland, but for the city itself to get more flights to destinations Clevelanders want to fly to.

 

Right now, United brings in lots of regional flights whose passengers are changing planes in Cleveland, but the routes are determined by where the airline wants to go, he said.

 

"Hopefully another carrier will come in and fulfill the demand that Cleveland deserves to have," he said. "There's so much going on that city and they need this."

 

This was taken from the following PD article:

Cleveland's costly regional jets contributed to United Airlines' hub pullout

Aviation experts say the high cost of operating regional routes may have contributed to United's decision to pull its hub out of Cleveland Hopkins International Airport on Feb. 1. (Peggy Turbett, Plain Dealer file)

Print Janet H. Cho, The Plain Dealer By Janet H. Cho, The Plain Dealer

http://www.cleveland.com/business/index.ssf/2014/02/clevelands_costly_regional_jets_contributed_to_united_airlines_hub_pullout.html

The USDOT Office of the Inspector General issued a report in September 2012 which found that in 2000 there were 10 airlines that, combined, carried 90% of domestic air travel. But after the AA-USAir merger, there would be only four airlines accounting for 85% of domestic flying. While this was causing higher fares, the report noted that it was also helping to restore profitability to the airline industry after its "lost decade" of the 2000s when it lost more money than it had enjoyed cumulative profits in all of the preceding century.

 

The Big Four airlines already have their hubs. They leave a 15% market share, which doesn't leave much traffic for smaller airlines to develop hubs in cities like Cleveland, or any of the many other airports like Pittsburgh, Cincinnati, St. Louis, Memphis which have a huge amount of excess airport capacity after they were de-hubbed. In short, don't expect a new hub operation to be established at Cleveland for a long time, if ever.

 

It sounds like it's basically an oligopoly now. All these mergers hurt smaller airports and their respective cities, and yes, it's ridiculous to have these former hubs struggling with all that wasted space. We need more airlines. This hurts business travelers the most since you really want those direct flights to as many places as possible within your territory. It sounds like CLE was a much better airport when it was a Continental hub.

 

I'm amazed Virgin America made it to profitability being hubbed at SFO. United and American were really stiff competition and went directly after those Virgin flights. Ditto with Southwest at OAK.

 

As folks in Cincy have discovered, the fares haven't come down as hoped. It really takes new low cost carriers to come into the market to bring down fares.

 

Agreed.

It sounds like it's basically an oligopoly now.

 

That's exactly what it is and the government is basically endorsing it.  Capitalism doesn't really work when you have minimal competition, like what's happened to the airline industry.  But this isn't happening in a vacuum; these airlines are shrewdly buying politicians to change the rules for them.

 

It sounds like it's basically an oligopoly now. All these mergers hurt smaller airports and their respective cities, and yes, it's ridiculous to have these former hubs struggling with all that wasted space. We need more airlines. This hurts business travelers the most since you really want those direct flights to as many places as possible within your territory. It sounds like CLE was a much better airport when it was a Continental hub.

 

I'm amazed Virgin America made it to profitability being hubbed at SFO. United and American were really stiff competition and went directly after those Virgin flights. Ditto with Southwest at OAK.

 

As folks in Cincy have discovered, the fares haven't come down as hoped. It really takes new low cost carriers to come into the market to bring down fares.

 

Agreed.

 

I disagree we need more airlines. More airlines means lower fares and less profitability. For the first time in years, the industry is profitable thanks to consolidation. Serving the smaller cities is never profitable even with all the subsidies the airline industry gets. Consider this opinionated article from 2012:

 

http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/magazine/march_april_2012/features/terminal_sickness035756.php?page=all

interesting article blaming City leaders for keeping Burke Lakefront open even as number of flights at Hopkins dropped by 50%.  Standard line for keeping Burke open has always been they needed it to keep the capacity open at Hopkins.  Guess that's not true anymore.

 

http://beltmag.com/clevelandairporttroubles/