Frontier to make Hopkins announcement

 

 

CLEVELAND -- More options are coming to travelers at Cleveland Hopkins International Airport.

 

 

A noon press conference is currently underway where Frontier Airlines is celebrating new service to Hartsfield-Jackson International Airport in Atlanta.

 

 

But that's not all…

 

 

Airport officials say Frontier may have some surprises in store.

 

 

http://www.wkyc.com/story/news/local/cleveland/2014/06/16/frontier-to-make-hopkins-announcement/10572545/

So, they're going to compete with the mainlines in Chicago, NY, and DC. Interesting. I guess we really will see lower fares.

UPDATED:

 

 

CLEVELAND -- Frontier Airlines has announced expanded nonstop flights from Cleveland, and is marking the announcement out with one-day-only $19 fares to select locations.

[/size]Monday only, fliers can get $19 one-way flights to New York, Washington and Chicago. A round trip is $38.

[/size]The flights to New York's LaGuardia airport start Oct. 26, and flights to Washington Dulles and Chicago O'Hare begin Oct. 1.

[/size]These three new destinations bring Frontier's total to 17 nonstop destinations from Cleveland Hopkins International Airport.

So, they're going to compete with the mainlines in Chicago, NY, and DC. Interesting. I guess we really will see lower fares.

I don't think there will be a Frontier effect.  In addition there are not enough frequencies to compete.

 

Frontier has added 17 Non Stops

 

Domestic

Atlanta

Dallas

Denver

Fort Lauderdale

Fort Myers

Las Vegas

Orlando

Phoenix

Raleigh-Durham

Seattle

Tampa, Fla

Trenton, N.J

 

International service

Cancun, Mexico

Punta Cana

 

Not one of these destinations is every day or has more than 5 frequencies per city pair.  When flights are daily and have five frequencies, I'll say that Cleveland is a true "Focus City".  Right now they are testing the waters.

 

Based on analyst calls I've listened too, many are stating United purposely mis-managed the Cleveland Hub.  Not the O&D traffic but the connecting traffic.  Many also say, and I've said it before, they did this to save Newark.  They didn't want to cannibalize that hub for a smaller hub with less amenities.  IE, Customs and Immigration terminal that was never built and why Continental never connected D to the Main Terminal.  Remember, Continental built Concourse D, not Cleveland, which is why UA is paying 1 Million a month for the space.

 

Analyst also said, UA could have used CLE as a domestic connector and used both ORD and EWR as international Gateways.  Cleveland would direct E/W and N/S route with select International service and would have cleared up the domestic traffic at ORD and EWR that makes for system-wide delays.

 

Example, if you were in the MidWest and wanted to fly to LA or SFO, you would have the option of using both ORD and CLE.  ORD would have less frequencies compared to CLE.  If you live in the Mountain states and wanted to go to New York.  You could fly via DEN or CLE.  Cleveland having more Frequencies into the three big NYC airport, plus PHL.

Nothing's getting the hub  back -  but would be great if Smisek and United execs would get officially called out for their obviously "kill CLE" tactics via the leaking of emails, etc...

Nothing's getting the hub  back -  but would be great if Smisek and United execs would get officially called out for their obviously "kill CLE" tactics via the leaking of emails, etc...

 

I don't understand the first part of your post.  Are you saying, "We're not getting the Hub back"?  That is true.  I worry that if Frontier turns a profile, what will mismanaged UA do next?

 

Lastly, I've also heard three very very week scenarios

• I have heard rumors that AA/US could be bring back some pre American and America West mergers, flight frequencies.
  
• JetBlue:  Boston, IAD, SFO, LA, SLC, SEA, MSY and Palm Tree cities
  
• Delta:  SFO, LA, SAN, DFW, STL, BOS, MCI, MKE, RDU, FLL, TPA, LAS, MSY, SEA, SLC
  
• Virgin:  My spiders tell me there have been discussions, but I dont see any service, anytime soon.  If it does start I except LA and SFO and/or JFK.
  

The Delta Routes, but with DTW to the north, do they make sense.  Out of those flight I see SFO, LA, BOS, RDU, SEA, MCI & STL really working with the midwest city being on regional jets.

 

Cleveland doesn't have good connections to the Pacific Coast, Pacific NorthWest or Mountain states.

 

I would be shocked if B6 opened p shop in CLE.

 

What is really on my wishlist in this order:

[*]Build connection from Concourse D to main Terminal

[*]Move all airlines to Concourse B, C & D (Since UA is paying for it).  727, A319, A320 & 737 planes can park at concourse D concourse gates. 

[*]Completely gut and renovate A and add three international common use gates.

[*]Move F9 the choice to move to a refreshed Concourse D, since they are adding quite a few flights (Focus City) here or the choice to go to A, since they have international routes.

[*]Move US/AA to B in the old United space with the new AA branding

[*]If B6 and/or VX opens up shop, put them in A if F9 chooses D.  If F9 chooses A, put B6/VX on D.

[*]Reopen the B councourse skydeck to the airport passengers and turn that space into revenue earning restaurant with indoor/outdoor lounge.

 

What is really on my wishlist in this order:

[*]Build connection from Concourse D to main Terminal

[*]Move all airlines to Concourse B, C & D (Since UA is paying for it).  727, A319, A320 & 737 planes can park at concourse D concourse gates. 

[*]Completely gut and renovate A and add three international common use gates.

[*]Move F9 the choice to move to a refreshed Concourse D, since they are adding quite a few flights (Focus City) here or the choice to go to A, since they have international routes.

[*]Move US/AA to B in the old United space with the new AA branding

[*]If B6 and/or VX opens up shop, put them in A if F9 chooses D.  If F9 chooses A, put B6/VX on D.

[*]Reopen the B councourse skydeck to the airport passengers and turn that space into revenue earning restaurant with indoor/outdoor lounge.

 

Good wish list; we can dream!  My list would also include the following:

 

  8.  Rebuild the demolished long-term parking garage (i.e., the one that was replaced with a surface lot)

  9.  Designate the first two levels of the rebuilt garage to rental cars and include on-site rental car counters

 

Good wish list; we can dream!  My list would also include the following:

 

  8.  Rebuild the demolished long-term parking garage (i.e., the one that was replaced with a surface lot)

  9.  Designate the first two levels of the rebuilt garage to rental cars and include on-site rental car counters

 

 

Agree. They could probably finance it just from the savings from not having run shuttle buses back and forth to the rental facility.

Good wish list; we can dream!  My list would also include the following:

 

  8.  Rebuild the demolished long-term parking garage (i.e., the one that was replaced with a surface lot)

  9.  Designate the first two levels of the rebuilt garage to rental cars and include on-site rental car counters

 

 

Agree. They could probably finance it just from the savings from not having run shuttle buses back and forth to the rental facility.

 

For sure--that was a really shortsighted move to build that where it is.  In reality, our rental car facility should be in the first couple floors of the SHORT term garage, or in the new red lot.

The norm at major airports these days is off-site rental cars, including much further off site than CLE's. . I am frequently on shuttles that tske longer and which are more inconvenient than CLE's rental shuttle... The days of in-terminal cars are dwindling, though MSP, MKE nd SLC, among a few others, still has them.

The norm at major airports these days is off-site rental cars, including much further off site than CLE's. . I am frequently on shuttles that tske longer and which are more inconvenient than CLE's rental shuttle... The days of in-terminal cars are dwindling, though MSP, MKE nd SLC, among a few others, still has them.

 

I agree with you to a point.  But to make our smaller airport more friendly and competitive, I would prefer an on-site location.  At the minimum, the city should consider reconstructing the roads leading to and from the facility.  Riding one of those buses there is like driving on the moon.

The norm at major airports these days is off-site rental cars, including much further off site than CLE's. . I am frequently on shuttles that tske longer and which are more inconvenient than CLE's rental shuttle... The days of in-terminal cars are dwindling, though MSP, MKE nd SLC, among a few others, still has them.

 

Very true.  The ride to CLE facility really isn't that bad compared to other airports

Nothing's getting the hub  back -  but would be great if Smisek and United execs would get officially called out for their obviously "kill CLE" tactics via the leaking of emails, etc...

 

I don't understand the first part of your post.  Are you saying, "We're not getting the Hub back"?  That is true.  I worry that if Frontier turns a profile, what will mismanaged UA do next?

 

Lastly, I've also heard three very very week scenarios

• I have heard rumors that AA/US could be bring back some pre American and America West mergers, flight frequencies.
  
• JetBlue:  Boston, IAD, SFO, LA, SLC, SEA, MSY and Palm Tree cities
  
• Delta:  SFO, LA, SAN, DFW, STL, BOS, MCI, MKE, RDU, FLL, TPA, LAS, MSY, SEA, SLC
  
• Virgin:  My spiders tell me there have been discussions, but I dont see any service, anytime soon.  If it does start I except LA and SFO and/or JFK.
  

The Delta Routes, but with DTW to the north, do they make sense.  Out of those flight I see SFO, LA, BOS, RDU, SEA, MCI & STL really working with the midwest city being on regional jets.

 

Cleveland doesn't have good connections to the Pacific Coast, Pacific NorthWest or Mountain states.

 

I would be shocked if B6 opened p shop in CLE.

 

What is really on my wishlist in this order:

[*]Build connection from Concourse D to main Terminal

[*]Move all airlines to Concourse B, C & D (Since UA is paying for it).  727, A319, A320 & 737 planes can park at concourse D concourse gates. 

[*]Completely gut and renovate A and add three international common use gates.

[*]Move F9 the choice to move to a refreshed Concourse D, since they are adding quite a few flights (Focus City) here or the choice to go to A, since they have international routes.

[*]Move US/AA to B in the old United space with the new AA branding

[*]If B6 and/or VX opens up shop, put them in A if F9 chooses D.  If F9 chooses A, put B6/VX on D.

[*]Reopen the B councourse skydeck to the airport passengers and turn that space into revenue earning restaurant with indoor/outdoor lounge.

 

Actually, to answer your question above about Frontier turning a profit and UA's response, I don't see UA doing anything. With the type of airline and fare structure that Frontier is, they will create demand rather than steal it from other carriers.  For those of us being of a certain vintage, remember PeoplExpress??  People actually created demand by providing service to a segment of the population that had never flown before due to the high cost of flying.  They also had an ala carte fare structure.  You were charged for bags.  You were charged for on-board amenities.  No advance seat assignments, etc.  Frontiers basic fares will bring people to their planes who previously would not fly.  Sure, some people will defect the legacy carriers but if you positively, absolutely have to be someplace, you are going to fly the legacies because Frontier doesn't operate the necessary frequencies to absorb cancellations or late flights AND the don't interline with other carriers, so your ticket is non-transferrable in the event of a cancellation or delay.

 

You are quite correct about jetBlue.  I don't see them opening a station here either. 

 

The rebuild of the concourses should be a number 1 priority.  If any of you have ever been Raleigh/Durham, this would be a good layout to copy.  RDU just opened a new terminal and it's very nice.  Handles about the same traffic as the de-hubbed CLE.

 

Lastly, Mr. Smisek at a recent conference has admitted that UIA didn't close CLE due to poor O&D/fares.  No, now the line is that CLE offered poor connectivity!!!!  Well, if you don't schedule frequencies or attempt to sell connection via CLE then I guess that was self-fulfilling prophesy.

Nothing's getting the hub  back -  but would be great if Smisek and United execs would get officially called out for their obviously "kill CLE" tactics via the leaking of emails, etc...

 

I don't understand the first part of your post.  Are you saying, "We're not getting the Hub back"?  That is true.  I worry that if Frontier turns a profile, what will mismanaged UA do next?

 

Lastly, I've also heard three very very week scenarios

• I have heard rumors that AA/US could be bring back some pre American and America West mergers, flight frequencies.
  
• JetBlue:  Boston, IAD, SFO, LA, SLC, SEA, MSY and Palm Tree cities
  
• Delta:  SFO, LA, SAN, DFW, STL, BOS, MCI, MKE, RDU, FLL, TPA, LAS, MSY, SEA, SLC
  
• Virgin:  My spiders tell me there have been discussions, but I dont see any service, anytime soon.  If it does start I except LA and SFO and/or JFK.
  

The Delta Routes, but with DTW to the north, do they make sense.  Out of those flight I see SFO, LA, BOS, RDU, SEA, MCI & STL really working with the midwest city being on regional jets.

 

Cleveland doesn't have good connections to the Pacific Coast, Pacific NorthWest or Mountain states.

 

I would be shocked if B6 opened p shop in CLE.

 

What is really on my wishlist in this order:

[*]Build connection from Concourse D to main Terminal

[*]Move all airlines to Concourse B, C & D (Since UA is paying for it).  727, A319, A320 & 737 planes can park at concourse D concourse gates. 

[*]Completely gut and renovate A and add three international common use gates.

[*]Move F9 the choice to move to a refreshed Concourse D, since they are adding quite a few flights (Focus City) here or the choice to go to A, since they have international routes.

[*]Move US/AA to B in the old United space with the new AA branding

[*]If B6 and/or VX opens up shop, put them in A if F9 chooses D.  If F9 chooses A, put B6/VX on D.

[*]Reopen the B councourse skydeck to the airport passengers and turn that space into revenue earning restaurant with indoor/outdoor lounge.

 

Actually, to answer your question above about Frontier turning a profit and UA's response, I don't see UA doing anything. With the type of airline and fare structure that Frontier is, they will create demand rather than steal it from other carriers.  For those of us being of a certain vintage, remember PeoplExpress??  People actually created demand by providing service to a segment of the population that had never flown before due to the high cost of flying.  They also had an ala carte fare structure.  You were charged for bags.  You were charged for on-board amenities.  No advance seat assignments, etc.  Frontiers basic fares will bring people to their planes who previously would not fly.  Sure, some people will defect the legacy carriers but if you positively, absolutely have to be someplace, you are going to fly the legacies because Frontier doesn't operate the necessary frequencies to absorb cancellations or late flights AND the don't interline with other carriers, so your ticket is non-transferrable in the event of a cancellation or delay.

 

You are quite correct about jetBlue.  I don't see them opening a station here either. 

 

The rebuild of the concourses should be a number 1 priority.  If any of you have ever been Raleigh/Durham, this would be a good layout to copy.  RDU just opened a new terminal and it's very nice.  Handles about the same traffic as the de-hubbed CLE.

 

Lastly, Mr. Smisek at a recent conference has admitted that UIA didn't close CLE due to poor O&D/fares.  No, now the line is that CLE offered poor connectivity!!!!  Well, if you don't schedule frequencies or attempt to sell connection via CLE then I guess that was self-fulfilling prophesy.

 

You're right.  I forgot about Peoples Express which was bought (then sold) the original Frontier airlines only to be bought by Continental.  The irony!

 

What I mean by "what will continental do?" is on high O&D routes they cut, will they come back.  IMO Continental will in the near future increase service here, as they second guess themselves, but not back to Hub levels.  Some routes where they had good market share and now Frontier picked up they may want to compete.  Unlike Delta, Continental doesn't always give up.

 

I think the airport rebuilding Concourse A and possibly B is a number 1 priority while they have the space to shift airlines around. 

 

I do see JetBlue or Virgin opening up shop.  I'm surprise neither opened BEFORE the gay games. There is too much market space in CLE and CLE is now becoming a leisure destination.  That's the B6/VX market in addition, both have huge gay marketing programs.  Both airlines need a big city midwest presence.  VX more than BG.  Both fly to ORD, and B6 flies to PIT and DTW.

 

The real shocker for me, SouthWest has been very quiet on their CLE plans.  Even my little minions have heard nothing.

Southwest I think is where it wants to be at CLE. Don't forget, they operate frequencies down the street at CAK.  The problem with jetBlue or Virgin is that won't be able to operate the necessary frequencies to make it work.  UAL will kill jeBlue if they ever decide to start BOS.  The same holds true for Virgin.  No, if there are additions coming to places like BOS, LAX or SFO, Frontier will do that.  They are already building market share.  Don't forget, they just announces IAD and surprise, surprise; LGA.  The problem with Southwest is that they are essentially a high priced Frontier.  Sure bags are free, but they don't interline and their frequencies are low.

 

I would say next to Frontier, the next wave of any route additions will be done by a legacy:  either AA or DL.  UA too, especially when they realize that some of the spokes that they cut had some decent O&D and revenue.

Southwest I think is where it wants to be at CLE. Don't forget, they operate frequencies down the street at CAK.  The problem with jetBlue or Virgin is that won't be able to operate the necessary frequencies to make it work.  UAL will kill jeBlue if they ever decide to start BOS.  The same holds true for Virgin.  No, if there are additions coming to places like BOS, LAX or SFO, Frontier will do that.  They are already building market share.  Don't forget, they just announces IAD and surprise, surprise; LGA.  The problem with Southwest is that they are essentially a high priced Frontier.  Sure bags are free, but they don't interline and their frequencies are low.

 

I would say next to Frontier, the next wave of any route additions will be done by a legacy:  either AA or DL.  UA too, especially when they realize that some of the spokes that they cut had some decent O&D and revenue.

 

I don't as I said earlier B6 wants to fly to Boston, IAD, SFO, LA, SLC, SEA, MSY and Palm Tree cities.  But I could really see them going for BWI, JFK, RIC, CLT, BUF, SAN & PDX with some combination of the earlier mentioned cities.  I don't think having WN at CAK is an issue.  SouthWest has never been conventional.

 

F9 is building market share, but where are the planes coming from?  None of the routes announced are daily service with more than 5 frequencies.  I don't consider them to be serious until there is daily service.

 

F9 is building market share, but where are the planes coming from?  None of the routes announced are daily service with more than 5 frequencies.  I don't consider them to be serious until there is daily service.

 

That's not quite true. The new service to LaGuardia in New York is 6x a week (every day but Saturday). Their Denver service is twice daily and their Orlando service is daily.

 

Frontier flys Airbus A320 aircraft that seat 168 passengers. They don't fly regional jets. By comparison, in Cleveland, United flew predominantly RJ145 aircraft that seated 50 passengers. 1 Frontier flight to Raleigh Durham has the same seats as ~3.4 daily United flights to Raleigh Durham on their regional jets. In a market the size of Cleveland, it would be very difficult to get more than daily frequencies on 168 passenger jets to other mid market destinations that UA cut, because airlines don't fly empty planes around.

 

Frontier has definitely changed their business model this year and CLE definitely offers them huge growth potential. As it stands now with their current flight offerings, Frontier will be poised to be CLE's second largest carrier as they will be offering about 18,000 seats in and out of CLE each week and plenty more announced for later in the year. They've shown commitment to providing a wide variety of air service to Cleveland and if passengers in the area are willing to support them then Frontier can probably start to think about expanding frequencies. It's much easier for an airline to start out with a few flights and add as needed, than to start with a lot of flights and start cutting them because the demand wasn't there.

 

F9 is building market share, but where are the planes coming from?  None of the routes announced are daily service with more than 5 frequencies.  I don't consider them to be serious until there is daily service.

 

That's not quite true. The new service to LaGuardia in New York is 6x a week (every day but Saturday). Their Denver service is twice daily and their Orlando service is daily.

 

Frontier flys Airbus A320 aircraft that seat 168 passengers. They don't fly regional jets. By comparison, in Cleveland, United flew predominantly RJ145 aircraft that seated 50 passengers. 1 Frontier flight to Raleigh Durham has the same seats as ~3.4 daily United flights to Raleigh Durham on their regional jets. In a market the size of Cleveland, it would be very difficult to get more than daily frequencies on 168 passenger jets to other mid market destinations that UA cut, because airlines don't fly empty planes around.

 

Frontier has definitely changed their business model this year and CLE definitely offers them huge growth potential. As it stands now with their current flight offerings, Frontier will be poised to be CLE's second largest carrier as they will be offering about 18,000 seats in and out of CLE each week and plenty more announced for later in the year. They've shown commitment to providing a wide variety of air service to Cleveland and if passengers in the area are willing to support them then Frontier can probably start to think about expanding frequencies. It's much easier for an airline to start out with a few flights and add as needed, than to start with a lot of flights and start cutting them because the demand wasn't there.

 

I'm not trying to pick a fight, but it's not true, period.  None of the routes announced are daily - as in every single day - with more than 5 frequencies.

 

I didn't look this information up, but on the routes UA cut where they all RJ routes or Mixed, RJ/737.  LGA, DCA were a mix.

 

I'm in no way suggesting flying empty plans or that revenue managers don't know their jobs, but I don't believe F9 has enough planes to make daily service on all new routes and I can't take them as a serious competitor out of CLE until they do.  It will be interesting when quarterly information is released.

 

F9 is building market share, but where are the planes coming from?  None of the routes announced are daily service with more than 5 frequencies.  I don't consider them to be serious until there is daily service.

 

That's not quite true. The new service to LaGuardia in New York is 6x a week (every day but Saturday). Their Denver service is twice daily and their Orlando service is daily.

 

Frontier flys Airbus A320 aircraft that seat 168 passengers. They don't fly regional jets. By comparison, in Cleveland, United flew predominantly RJ145 aircraft that seated 50 passengers. 1 Frontier flight to Raleigh Durham has the same seats as ~3.4 daily United flights to Raleigh Durham on their regional jets. In a market the size of Cleveland, it would be very difficult to get more than daily frequencies on 168 passenger jets to other mid market destinations that UA cut, because airlines don't fly empty planes around.

 

Frontier has definitely changed their business model this year and CLE definitely offers them huge growth potential. As it stands now with their current flight offerings, Frontier will be poised to be CLE's second largest carrier as they will be offering about 18,000 seats in and out of CLE each week and plenty more announced for later in the year. They've shown commitment to providing a wide variety of air service to Cleveland and if passengers in the area are willing to support them then Frontier can probably start to think about expanding frequencies. It's much easier for an airline to start out with a few flights and add as needed, than to start with a lot of flights and start cutting them because the demand wasn't there.

 

I'm not trying to pick a fight, but it's not true, period.  None of the routes announced are daily - as in every single day - with more than 5 frequencies.

 

I didn't look this information up, but on the routes UA cut where they all RJ routes or Mixed, RJ/737.  LGA, DCA were a mix.

 

I'm in no way suggesting flying empty plans or that revenue managers don't know their jobs, but I don't believe F9 has enough planes to make daily service on all new routes and I can't take them as a serious competitor out of CLE until they do.  It will be interesting when quarterly information is released.

 

The vast majority of UA cuts from CLE were on RJ145 aircraft, which United is removing from their overall network. There were only about 2-3 net daily mainline reductions in total at CLE (which did include increasing mainline flights to Chicago and reducing a few mainline flights elsewhere). UA was down to 1 mainline LGA flight per day in 2013, the other 6-8 frequencies were all regional jets. DCA hasn't been flown mainline by UA/CO in several years, it's been mostly RJ145s with the occasional CR700 with 5 frequencies per day. The United CLE-DCA routing was not effected by United's hub closure at CLE, the 5 daily regional jet frequencies remain untouched.

 

I think I may have misinterpreted what you meant about Frontier. They definitely do not run 5x daily frequencies (anywhere in their system), and with 168 passenger jets, that's never going to happen at CLE. For there to be multiple daily frequencies (on any airline) from CLE, it's going to have to be on regional jets and - if on mainline - only to very large hubs and O&D markets from CLE. The only markets where 5x daily mainline frequencies are feasible would New York, Chicago, Atlanta, DC (all 3 airports combined) and possibly Houston, Dallas or Denver. Frontier's strategy at CLE is 3-5 weekly departures to a city. However, they currently run 2 daily midweek flights to their hub in Denver. Their service to Orlando was originally announced as fitting the 3-5x weekly model, but has been successful enough that it started out at 6x weekly this month. It will be going to 1x daily beginning this fall. Their announced service to LaGuardia will depart CLE every morning except Saturday at 6:15am.

 

I've always found this site to be useful in looking up all airlines schedules for an airport for a given month (warning, it does show codeshare flights):

 

http://www.kayak.com/direct/CLE/2014-11

The FAA posted airport rankings today in terms of passengers, for 2013.  The #1 airport was Atlanta as was true in 2012.

 

The first five were ATL, LAX, ORD, DFW, and DEN. CLE Hopkins ranked 40th, with 4,375,822 enplanements in 2013, up from 4,346,941 in 2012, a 0.66% increase.  (http://www.faa.gov/airports/planning_capacity/passenger_allcargo_stats/passenger/media/preliminary-cy13-commercial-service-enplanements.pdf)

 

I then analyzed the data of the top 100 commerical airports and attempted to rank cities by air traffic. From this angle, Cleveland City ranks 26, and of course, NYC, not ATL, ranks #1

 

Below is the list of the top 30 cities and the assumptions made as to what airports were assigned to a city (in parenthesis after each city comprised of more than one airport). I know there will be differences of opinion, but this is just a quick stab. For example, I included PVD as part of Boston and DAY as part of Cincinnati, but did not include MKE as part of Chicago.

 

Data are from commercial airports only. Thus passenger data from BKL or Teterboro, and like airports serving the major cities, are not included.

 

Rank City 2013 Enplanements  2012 Enplanements % Change

 

1 NYC (JFK, EWR, LGA, HPN) 56,674,909 55,288,875 2.51%

2 Atlanta 45,308,685 45,798,928 -1.07%

3 LA (LAX, SNA, ONT, BUR, LGB) 42,297,982 41,431,882 2.09%

4 CHI (ORD, MDW) 42,198,891 41,608,182 1.42%

5 Miami (MIA, FLL, PBI) 33,780,537 33,228,950 1.66%

6 DAL (DFW, DAL) 33,044,968 31,925,532 3.51%

7 Washington (IAD, DCA, BWI) 31,521,292 31,464,891 0.18%

8 San Fran (SFO, OAK, SJC) 30,796,293 30,288,573 1.68%

9 Denver 25,497,348 25,799,841 -1.17%

10 Houston (IAH, HOU) 24,333,301 24,082,737 1.04%

11 Charlotte 21,347,428 20,033,816 6.56%

12 Las Vegas 19,923,594 19,959,651 -0.18%

13 Phoenix 19,525,829 19,560,870 -0.18%

14 Orlando (MCO, SFB) 17,856,682 18,032,496 -0.97%

15 Seattle 16,690,295 16,121,123 3.53%

16 Boston (BOS, PVD) 16,606,925 16,103,017 3.13%

17 Minneapolis-St Paul 16,282,038 15,943,878 2.12%

18 Detroit 15,683,787 15,599,879 0.54%

19 Philadelphia 14,705,014 14,589,337 0.79%

20 Salt Lake City 9,669,234 9,579,840 0.93%

21 Honolulu 9,466,995 9,225,848 2.61%

22 San Diego 8,876,777 8,686,621 2.19%

23 Tampa 8,268,207 8,218,487 0.60%

24 Portland 7,453,098 7,142,620 4.35%

25 St Louis 6,213,972 6,208,750 0.08%

26 Cleveland (CLE, CAK) 5,228,154 5,257,653 -0.56%

27 Nashville 5,052,066 4,797,102 5.31%

28 Austin 4,902,080 4,606,252 6.42%

29 Kansas City 4,836,221 4,866,850 -0.63%

30 New Orleans 4,577,498 4,293,624 6.61%

 

 

 

Why do Washington, Bay Area, Miami, Orlando, BOS metros include two airports, yet we don't include Akron?

^I did include Akron--its designated by CAK.

Nice work! Very minor comment: I'd include Manchester, NH as a Boston airport. It's about the same distance to central Boston as CAK is to Downtown CLE.

 

F9 is building market share, but where are the planes coming from?  None of the routes announced are daily service with more than 5 frequencies.  I don't consider them to be serious until there is daily service.

 

That's not quite true. The new service to LaGuardia in New York is 6x a week (every day but Saturday). Their Denver service is twice daily and their Orlando service is daily.

 

Frontier flys Airbus A320 aircraft that seat 168 passengers. They don't fly regional jets. By comparison, in Cleveland, United flew predominantly RJ145 aircraft that seated 50 passengers. 1 Frontier flight to Raleigh Durham has the same seats as ~3.4 daily United flights to Raleigh Durham on their regional jets. In a market the size of Cleveland, it would be very difficult to get more than daily frequencies on 168 passenger jets to other mid market destinations that UA cut, because airlines don't fly empty planes around.

 

Frontier has definitely changed their business model this year and CLE definitely offers them huge growth potential. As it stands now with their current flight offerings, Frontier will be poised to be CLE's second largest carrier as they will be offering about 18,000 seats in and out of CLE each week and plenty more announced for later in the year. They've shown commitment to providing a wide variety of air service to Cleveland and if passengers in the area are willing to support them then Frontier can probably start to think about expanding frequencies. It's much easier for an airline to start out with a few flights and add as needed, than to start with a lot of flights and start cutting them because the demand wasn't there.

 

I'm not trying to pick a fight, but it's not true, period.  None of the routes announced are daily - as in every single day - with more than 5 frequencies.

 

I didn't look this information up, but on the routes UA cut where they all RJ routes or Mixed, RJ/737.  LGA, DCA were a mix.

 

I'm in no way suggesting flying empty plans or that revenue managers don't know their jobs, but I don't believe F9 has enough planes to make daily service on all new routes and I can't take them as a serious competitor out of CLE until they do.  It will be interesting when quarterly information is released.

 

F9 has a significant order of A320's of which they will start taking delivery next year.  Also, F9 is wholly owned by an investment company called Indigo which also owns one or two other lines; which, you guessed it, fly A320's.  It has been rumored that some used A320's might find their way to F9.

 

From what I hear, F9's load factors have been great.  My guess is that they are filling planes with PAX who weren't flying last summer.  Though I've noticed that their fares start out very low, as the plane fills-up the fares rise to a comparable level to the competition.

 

On a side note:  Though UAL cut 100 flights/day from CLE and numerous secondary markets, approximately 45% of the capacity cut has been recovered by the additional flights of other carriers using much larger planes

Isn't the true value of the hub status a tad inflated and mostly an appearance thing? I am no expert here so please correct me if I am wrong, but weren't most the those 100 flights simply involving people connecting through, so essentially the entire "impact" of those travelers would be their time spent going from one gate to another in Concourse D?

^Those eliminated flights were also available to Clevelanders, though. The impact isn't the lower total passenger counts, it's the reduced availability of direct destinations and flight times to local business and leisure travelers.  (And the loss of locally-based UA employees.)

^Those eliminated flights were also available to Clevelanders, though. The impact isn't the lower total passenger counts, it's the reduced availability of direct destinations and flight times to local business and leisure travelers.  (And the loss of locally-based UA employees.)

 

Exactly. For instance, there simply isn't enough demand from Cleveland-based passengers for several flights a day to somewhere like, say, Kansas City. With a hub, Cleveland could support 4 flights a day to KC because those flights were also carrying passengers connecting through Cleveland from Buffalo or Louisville or Richmond. Without those passengers from those other cities, the demand isn't there for the flights to KC.

 

Why does that matter? Before, If I needed to go to KC for a business trip, I could fly out on the first flight in the morning, take care of my business during the day, and fly back to Cleveland that night. Now, we don't have any flights to KC, so I have to connect through another airport, which takes a lot more time. So, I have to leave the night before so that I'll be in KC in time for my meeting, and I won't get back home until, say, midnight instead of 9pm. I lose out on a big chunk of my personal time, and my company gets stuck with a bill for a hotel, more meals, etc.  And that's the best-case scenario. A connection (i.e. two separate flights) means twice the chance of a flight delay or cancellation, which means even more time away from home and possibly an extra night stuck in the connection city.  As someone who does have to travel frequently for work to smaller markets like KC, it's a big blow and makes business travel (already a drag to begin with) that much more difficult. It's also a blow for my company, which loses productivity from me and incurs higher expenses.

Exactly. For instance, there simply isn't enough demand from Cleveland-based passengers for several flights a day to somewhere like, say, Kansas City. With a hub, Cleveland could support 4 flights a day to KC because those flights were also carrying passengers connecting through Cleveland from Buffalo or Louisville or Richmond. Without those passengers from those other cities, the demand isn't there for the flights to KC.

 

Why does that matter? Before, If I needed to go to KC for a business trip, I could fly out on the first flight in the morning, take care of my business during the day, and fly back to Cleveland that night. Now, we don't have any flights to KC, so I have to connect through another airport, which takes a lot more time. So, I have to leave the night before so that I'll be in KC in time for my meeting, and I won't get back home until, say, midnight instead of 9pm. I lose out on a big chunk of my personal time, and my company gets stuck with a bill for a hotel, more meals, etc.  And that's the best-case scenario. A connection (i.e. two separate flights) means twice the chance of a flight delay or cancellation, which means even more time away from home and possibly an extra night stuck in the connection city.  As someone who does have to travel frequently for work to smaller markets like KC, it's a big blow and makes business travel (already a drag to begin with) that much more difficult. It's also a blow for my company, which loses productivity from me and incurs higher expenses.

 

Great description. Thanks.

^and taking that KC example further, with a hub and pax from other cities, there is enough demand for direct flights to London, Paris, Frankfurt, etc. Without the non-Cleveland based or non-Cleveland-destined passengers, there is a smaller passenger pool, making it more risky for airlines to start such a route

 

Nice work! Very minor comment: I'd include Manchester' date=' NH as a Boston airport. It's about the same distance to central Boston as CAK is to Downtown CLE.[/quote']

 

Thanks for the comment. I updated the data to include MHT as part of the Boston market. Boston now ranks 15th, up from 16th. CLE remains the same.  (Manchester Airport alone ranked 83rd)

 

Updated table:  Top 30 cities, combining enplanements from top 100 commercial airports.

 

Rank City           2013 Enplanements     2012 Enplanements   % Change

 

1 NYC (JFK, EWR, LGA, HPN) 56,674,909 55,288,875 2.51%

2 Hartsfield - Jackson Atlanta International 45,308,685 45,798,928 -1.07%

3 LA  (LAX, SNA, ONT, BUR, LGB) 42,297,982 41,431,882 2.09%

4 CHI (ORD, MDW) 42,198,891 41,608,182 1.42%

5 Miami (MIA, FLL, PBI) 33,780,537 33,228,950 1.66%

6 DAL (DFW, DAL) 33,044,968 31,925,532 3.51%

7 Washington (IAD, DCA, BWI) 31,521,292 31,464,891 0.18%

8 San Fran (SFO, OAK, SJC) 30,796,293 30,288,573 1.68%

9 Denver International 25,497,348 25,799,841 -1.17%

10 Houston (IAH, HOU) 24,333,301 24,082,737 1.04%

11 Charlotte/Douglas International 21,347,428 20,033,816 6.56%

12 McCarran International 19,923,594 19,959,651 -0.18%

13 Phoenix Sky Harbor International 19,525,829 19,560,870 -0.18%

14 Orlando (MCO, SFB) 17,856,682 18,032,496 -0.97%

15 Boston (BOS, PVD, MHT) 17,797,007 17,313,206 2.79%

16 Seattle-Tacoma International 16,690,295 16,121,123 3.53%

17 Minneapolis-St Paul International/Wold-Chamberlain 16,282,038 15,943,878 2.12%

18 Detroit Metropolitan Wayne County 15,683,787 15,599,879 0.54%

19 Philadelphia International 14,705,014 14,589,337 0.79%

20 Salt Lake City International 9,669,234 9,579,840 0.93%

21 Honolulu International 9,466,995 9,225,848 2.61%

22 San Diego International 8,876,777 8,686,621 2.19%

23 Tampa International 8,268,207 8,218,487 0.60%

24 Portland International 7,453,098 7,142,620 4.35%

25 Lambert-St Louis International 6,213,972 6,208,750 0.08%

26 Cleveland (CLE, CAK) 5,228,154 5,257,653 -0.56%

27 Nashville International 5,052,066 4,797,102 5.31%

28 Austin-Bergstrom International 4,902,080 4,606,252 6.42%

29 Kansas City International 4,836,221 4,866,850 -0.63%

30 New Orleans 4,577,498 4,293,624 6.61%

According to an article at "The Street.com", at least one Wall Street analyst is calling for UAL to close the IAD hub.  According to McAdoo, UAL's O&D load factors on 65 spokes are similar to CLE's load factors and should be terminated.  Further claims that IAD's profitability is no better than was CLE's

According to an article at "The Street.com", at least one Wall Street analyst is calling for UAL to close the IAD hub.  According to McAdoo, UAL's O&D load factors on 65 spokes are similar to CLE's load factors and should be terminated.  Further claims that IAD's profitability is no better than was CLE's

 

Interesting.  I thought they would get rid of Denver.  I can see a cut back at IAD as it's would be redundant being so close to EWR.  United claims they don't want hubs to cannibalize one another.

According to an article at "The Street.com", at least one Wall Street analyst is calling for UAL to close the IAD hub.  According to McAdoo, UAL's O&D load factors on 65 spokes are similar to CLE's load factors and should be terminated.  Further claims that IAD's profitability is no better than was CLE's

 

Interesting.  I thought they would get rid of Denver.  I can see a cut back at IAD as it's would be redundant being so close to EWR.  United claims they don't want hubs to cannibalize one another.

 

If they kill the IAD hub, I will stop flying United.  Only having connections to the east coast/Midwest and Europe left through O'Hare and Newark will send me to the looney bin.  And I don't even fly THAT frequently.

I don't understand why the upper roadway cannot be enclosed.  I don't drive but those transferring from the shuttle buses or driving in must hate the open air.  If the entire thing cannot be covered, some sort of canopy needs to be installed.

^What's wrong with the open air? I can't think one major airport in the world where the roadway is covered. Its pretty common to be open to the sky.

The shuttke buses drop off at curb, upstairs. It's the pickup downstairs done in open air on center island that does expose to the elements but the buses are usually waiting to hop on. There are "covered" airports but that is usually a function of the upper roadway being the roof directly above the lower roadway, not a dedicated roof.

That's why I'm saying with our changing elements, why can't some customer comfort outside the main terminal be built in?

That's why I'm saying with our changing elements, why can't some customer comfort outside the main terminal be built in?

 

Agreed 100%.  The rental car/hotel pickup situation downstairs is downright embarrassing for the city of Cleveland.  No where to hide in the rain/snow.

That's why I'm saying with our changing elements, why can't some customer comfort outside the main terminal be built in?

 

Agreed 100%.  The rental car/hotel pickup situation downstairs is downright embarrassing for the city of Cleveland.  No where to hide in the rain/snow.

 

I take the train so it doesn't affect me.  It would be nice if it were like DCA, LAX or FLL where the lower level is complete hidden by the upper level.

 

I don't understand why there are no canopies or the structure doesn't at least cover the "sidewalk" on the upper level be covered.  I just did a google maps street view of the airport arrival level, there is not protection for the elements there and it's not  visually appealing.

Where's ours?

 

"@TodayInTheSky: Delta confirms Salt Lake City-Amsterdam nonstop (@slcairport to @Schiphol) http://t.co/rOu5VWuFm9 -"

^ that hurts.

OK, this is going to age me badly - I have a plan to visit Amsterdam on my 50th birthday in 2017... If I could make a direct flight from Cleveland, it would probably be better than, ummm, well, I won't say...

^Be sure to fly DL--all you gotta do is fly CLE--ATL or DTW-SLC--AMS! 

 

(Before someone calls me on it, I do realize DL flies ATL -  and DTW-AMS)

Where's ours?

 

"@TodayInTheSky: Delta confirms Salt Lake City-Amsterdam nonstop (@slcairport to @Schiphol) http://t.co/rOu5VWuFm9 -"

 

Reading through that article it also looks like SLC is getting a new $1.8B terminal, paid for largely by Delta.  I guess this is one area where it pays to be an isolated metro...with no nearby airport competition.

Where's ours?

 

"@TodayInTheSky: Delta confirms Salt Lake City-Amsterdam nonstop (@slcairport to @Schiphol) http://t.co/rOu5VWuFm9 -"

KJP[/member]  You know better.  SLC is a Delta Hub, has more flights than CLE by a few million.  Also, Schiphol is a KLM hub that NW (pre Delta merger) had quite a few flights to.  Even Memphis had daily service.

From what I've heard over the years is that a number of airlines both foreign and domestic were interested in CLE-TATL service......However, the forecast yields, though acceptable, were always eclipsed by other markets.  CAL, after 2001 and UAL after the merger, never flowed enough traffic through CLE to make TATL work.  CAL even asked the business community in 2001 to step up and use the LGW service (biz class fares) which they apparently declined to do.  Without the ability to fill the premium seats, CLE won't be seeing TATL soon.  I recall from a yield management report back in 2008 where it was established that by just selling the biz class cabin at unrestricted fares one way (16 seats in a B757-200) that CAL would break even on the round trip and everything else was gravy.....

KJP[/member]  You know better.  SLC is a Delta Hub' date=' has more flights than CLE by a few million.  Also, Schiphol is a KLM hub that NW (pre Delta merger) had quite a few flights to.  Even Memphis had daily service.[/quote']

 

However, its still Salt Lake City.

I couldn't care less about the airline or even the reasons why. All I care about is having at least one direct flight from CLE to one of Europe's major hubs. Don't bother me with the why. Give me the why not -- including having the region/business community subsidize it.

CLE/NEO remains the largest metro in the country without a nonstop to Europe (and much smaller than a number of metros WITH nonstops) - and, as others note.. it matters...

 

No - metro size is hardly the determining factor why cities have hubs and nonstop to Europe, etc.. - location, competition, business and tourist destination status and others may play a part... - but big cities have nonstops to Europe (oh, and hubs)... and not having them in this area is hardly a plus.

 

And there's talk on another board here of British Airways being interested in a Columbus nonstop to Europe.. That would sting... if true.