With these Spirit additions, CLE has recovered approximately 66 per cent. of the capacity that was cut when United de-hubbed.  Granted, a lot of previous city pairs are gone, but the available seats are recovering nicely - and in only six-months. 

 

Frontier and Spirit should stimulate demand.  Due to somewhat lower fares, more discretionary travelers will be able to afford to fly.  United of course will still have a "premium product" and will retain those it already has. 

MD88: you think Southwest has to make a move at CLE to stay relevant? And what about their future at CAK? Nothing I would love more than them pulling up stakes there. CAK has stolen enough business from CLE the last decade with its discount focus - and time for it to return to the convenient choice for  travelers in that area versus being a regional draw.

 

With regards to the capacity increase after the United cuts, United itself seems to be using larger equipment more frequently than before (to ORD). I haven't been on an ERJ 135/145 in months on that route and not hard to avoid flying them at times I want to fly. B737s/A319s/E175s, etc. CLE-ORD now seem more the norm than in recent years.

MD88: you think Southwest has to make a move at CLE to stay relevant? And what about their future at CAK? Nothing I would love more than them pulling up stakes there. CAK has stolen enough business from CLE the last decade with its discount focus - and time for it to return to the convenient choice for  travelers in that area versus being a regional draw.

 

CAK hasn't stolen business from cleveland.  Think about it, the drive time, the connections did not justify the price when Cleveland was a bigger hub. 

With these Spirit additions, CLE has recovered approximately 66 per cent. of the capacity that was cut when United de-hubbed.  Granted, a lot of previous city pairs are gone, but the available seats are recovering nicely - and in only six-months. 

 

Frontier and Spirit should stimulate demand.  Due to somewhat lower fares, more discretionary travelers will be able to afford to fly.  United of course will still have a "premium product" and will retain those it already has. 

 

I still think this is a Non Factor considering JetBlue and Virgin are not in our market.  In addition, United nor any of the majors made additional changes.  Delta is a cannibal and when they see openings they generally test something.  Still no non stops every West Coast destination or State Capitol.

 

The Analysts are laughing at United and still saying, "How in the world was CLE losing money?".

 

 

MD88: you think Southwest has to make a move at CLE to stay relevant? And what about their future at CAK? Nothing I would love more than them pulling up stakes there. CAK has stolen enough business from CLE the last decade with its discount focus - and time for it to return to the convenient choice for  travelers in that area versus being a regional draw.

 

CAK hasn't stolen business from cleveland.  Think about it, the drive time, the connections did not justify the price when Cleveland was a bigger hub.

 

Exactly.  The CAK area is populous enough to warrant the flights that they have.  SWA in Cleveland is pretty much right where they want to be.  They certainly didn't challenge UAL during the hub days.  They fly from CLE to their non-hub hubs.  And for my money SAW ain't all that.  No interline agreements, etc.  And their prices are pretty much where the legacy airlines are.

CAK hasn't stolen business from cleveland.  Think about it' date=' the drive time, the connections did not justify the price when Cleveland was a bigger hub. [/quote']

 

I disagree. A lot of people who were not connecting somewhere drove to CAK for a flight. Even I did it once though I said I wouldn't do so. But I had to go to NY with a few days notice---flights out of CLE (UA/DL/AA) were $800 and CAK (AirTran) was $200. So if someone was very opposed to it did it, think about all the thousands that couldn't care less, but just wanted a cheaper fare (and by 75%! in this case). Furthermore, stealing pax from CLE was an active strategy of CAK. They even had billboards in Downtown CLE about being the 'easier' or 'cheaper' or something airport referring to it as a comparison to Hopkins.

With these Spirit additions, CLE has recovered approximately 66 per cent. of the capacity that was cut when United de-hubbed.  Granted, a lot of previous city pairs are gone, but the available seats are recovering nicely - and in only six-months. 

 

Frontier and Spirit should stimulate demand.  Due to somewhat lower fares, more discretionary travelers will be able to afford to fly.  United of course will still have a "premium product" and will retain those it already has. 

 

I still think this is a Non Factor considering JetBlue and Virgin are not in our market.  In addition, United nor any of the majors made additional changes.  Delta is a cannibal and when they see openings they generally test something.  Still no non stops every West Coast destination or State Capitol.

 

The Analysts are laughing at United and still saying, "How in the world was CLE losing money?".

 

 

 

What would jetBlue or Virgin bring to the CLE market that it doesn't already have?  They are hardly a superior product.

 

I agree with your last statement.  The real reason UAL killed CLE was because of ROI (Return on Investment) not because of poor O&D or losing money.  Last January (I think) on the investor conference call, UAL said it was evaluating items based on ROI.  Now, for a hub to have a good ROI you have to push lots of flights and people through it.  At 200 flights per day, CLE's days were numbered.  The fixed costs are pretty much the same whether there are 200 or 400 or 600 flights per day.  The less there are the lower ROI.

CAK hasn't stolen business from cleveland.  Think about it' date=' the drive time, the connections did not justify the price when Cleveland was a bigger hub. [/quote']

 

I disagree. A lot of people who were not connecting somewhere drove to CAK for a flight. Even I did it once though I said I wouldn't do so. But I had to go to NY with a few days notice---flights out of CLE (UA/DL/AA) were $800 and CAK (AirTran) was $200. So if someone was very opposed to it did it, think about all the thousands that couldn't care less, but just wanted a cheaper fare (and by 75%! in this case). Furthermore, stealing pax from CLE was an active strategy of CAK. They even had billboards in Downtown CLE about being the 'easier' or 'cheaper' or something airport referring to it as a comparison to Hopkins.

Yes, but the majority of people going to CAK were LLC travelers, not those already in the Continental/United ecosystem.  The low fare doesn't always equal overall greater value or savings.

 

Spirit surprises me because they have such bad service.  Also the majority of flights are going to already served "leisure" / "vacation" destinations.  Dallas and LA will help but we need more.  We lack middle America and the West Coast.

 

CAK hasn't stolen business from cleveland.  Think about it, the drive time, the connections did not justify the price when Cleveland was a bigger hub. 

 

CAK enplanements have risen more than 120 percent since 2000 while CLE's has fallen before UAL dehubbed CLE. Of course CAK has stolen from CLE, and from PIT too.

CAK hasn't stolen business from cleveland.  Think about it' date=' the drive time, the connections did not justify the price when Cleveland was a bigger hub. [/quote']

 

I disagree. A lot of people who were not connecting somewhere drove to CAK for a flight. Even I did it once though I said I wouldn't do so. But I had to go to NY with a few days notice---flights out of CLE (UA/DL/AA) were $800 and CAK (AirTran) was $200. So if someone was very opposed to it did it, think about all the thousands that couldn't care less, but just wanted a cheaper fare (and by 75%! in this case). Furthermore, stealing pax from CLE was an active strategy of CAK. They even had billboards in Downtown CLE about being the 'easier' or 'cheaper' or something airport referring to it as a comparison to Hopkins.

Yes, but the majority of people going to CAK were LLC travelers, not those already in the Continental/United ecosystem.  The low fare doesn't always equal overall greater value or savings.

 

Spirit surprises me because they have such bad service.  Also the majority of flights are going to already served "leisure" / "vacation" destinations.  Dallas and LA will help but we need more.  We lack middle America and the West Coast.

 

Exactly:  Demand was created via low fares.  Just because one airline of airport lowers fares doesn't mean the others suffer.  remember People Express in 1981?  They took a hardly used airport (EWR) and turned it into a mega hub.  LGA and JFK didn't suffer.  PEX created demand.  Frontier and Spirit will too. 

With regards to the capacity increase after the United cuts' date=' United itself seems to be using larger equipment more frequently than before (to ORD). I haven't been on an ERJ 135/145 in months on that route and not hard to avoid flying them at times I want to fly. B737s/A319s/E175s, etc. CLE-ORD now seem more the norm than in recent years.[/quote']

 

That's because UA wants all of CLE to go to ORD and connect to where they're going. Personally, if I'm going to connect, I'm definitely not flying UA--I'll fly DL or AA and transfer in one of their hubs. Since their dehub announcement, I haven't stepped on a single UA flight - even though I have silver or gold status on them.

 

I still think this is a Non Factor considering JetBlue and Virgin are not in our market.  In addition' date=' United nor any of the majors made additional changes.  Delta is a cannibal and when they see openings they generally test something.  Still no non stops every West Coast destination or State Capitol.[/quote']

 

 

I agree. I'd like more legacy (DL, AA) service to other business locations, as well as some flights to LHR, AMS, and FRA by any carrier. For the record, DL did add some flights--to IND and BDL. AA upgauged some equipment on existing routes.

 

With these Spirit additions, CLE has recovered approximately 66 per cent. of the capacity that was cut when United de-hubbed.  Granted, a lot of previous city pairs are gone, but the available seats are recovering nicely - and in only six-months. 

 

Frontier and Spirit should stimulate demand.  Due to somewhat lower fares, more discretionary travelers will be able to afford to fly.  United of course will still have a "premium product" and will retain those it already has. 

 

I still think this is a Non Factor considering JetBlue and Virgin are not in our market.  In addition, United nor any of the majors made additional changes.  Delta is a cannibal and when they see openings they generally test something.  Still no non stops every West Coast destination or State Capitol.

 

The Analysts are laughing at United and still saying, "How in the world was CLE losing money?".

 

 

 

What would jetBlue or Virgin bring to the CLE market that it doesn't already have?  They are hardly a superior product.

 

I agree with your last statement.  The real reason UAL killed CLE was because of ROI (Return on Investment) not because of poor O&D or losing money.  Last January (I think) on the investor conference call, UAL said it was evaluating items based on ROI.  Now, for a hub to have a good ROI you have to push lots of flights and people through it.  At 200 flights per day, CLE's days were numbered.  The fixed costs are pretty much the same whether there are 200 or 400 or 600 flights per day.  The less there are the lower ROI.

 

The call also mentioned continental jacking up fares to purposely be non competitive in CLE while creating options in EWR and ORD.  IE, the company created ways to force customers to transfer in EWR or ORD.  United could very easily made Cleveland a Domestic transfer hub will keeping EWR and ORD international hubs.  It would have cleared up airspace in EWR and ORD.  Now watch DEN and IAD go bat shit crazy.  One of the two will be gone within two years.

 

B6 has ORD, DTW & PIT in the Great Lakes.  If B6, gave us flights into MSY, DFW, IAH, CLT, DEN, PDX, OAK, SJC, LAX, SAN, AUS, SEA with a mix of two three east coast and Caribbean stations that would give customers true new options and expand their brand at an airport with options to grow.  We have enough options to Florida.

Don't forget, it's only been six months since UAL cut back.  UAL did keep a lot of important city pairs.  A lot of capacity has come back.  Other airlines are still evaluating what at CLE they can add.  This does take time.  Resources and equipment have to be allocated. Committing air service to markets is not something that airlines do on whim

 

CLE is an important business and upcoming tourist destination.  Plus a local catchment area of approx. 4MM people.  Let's wait and see what the next six-months bring

Don't forget, it's only been six months since UAL cut back.  UAL did keep a lot of important city pairs.  A lot of capacity has come back.  Other airlines are still evaluating what at CLE they can add.  This does take time.  Resources and equipment have to be allocated. Committing air service to markets is not something that airlines do on whim

 

CLE is an important business and upcoming tourist destination.  Plus a local catchment area of approx. 4MM people.  Let's wait and see what the next six-months bring

 

I can agree with that.  I'm sure as the summer season closes and AA, DL evaluate poor flight performance in other cities, we might expect plane movements to/from their hubs or to the the West Coast.

 

CAK hasn't stolen business from cleveland.  Think about it, the drive time, the connections did not justify the price when Cleveland was a bigger hub. 

 

CAK enplanements have risen more than 120 percent since 2000 while CLE's has fallen before UAL dehubbed CLE. Of course CAK has stolen from CLE, and from PIT too.

 

Agree. CAK's growth was from stealing passengers in PIT and CLE (which had an overpriced US Air hub and then the CO/UA hub at CLE). That growth in passengers didn't come from explosive population growth in Akron-Canton in the early 2000s. The tide has turned though. CAK's passenger counts have been steadily declining since they peaked in summer 2012. I think I read somewhere that summer 2014 counts are down close to 20% from summer 2012. And with discount Frontier starting up at CLE this summer and now ultra discount Spirit this winter, CAK won't have much, if any, of a price advantage over CLE anymore. The vast majority of fliers will fly from the airport that has a combination of destinations, convenience, and lower fares, which for many in NE Ohio, will end up being predominantly CLE.

 

Now that Spirit has announced non-stop service to Los Angeles from Cleveland (at fares of ~$230 r/t), US Airways, American, and Delta, while not offering non stop flights have lowered fares in the $230-260 range with a connection for many dates through next summer. Those fares from CLE to LAX were virtually unheard of the past few years. So even if flying on one of these discount carriers is not your thing it will likely still reduce your cost to fly on a legacy carrier. This will end up having a positive effect on stimulating more traffic through CLE in the coming year.

 

Agree. CAK's growth was from stealing passengers in PIT and CLE (which had an overpriced US Air hub and then the CO/UA hub at CLE). That growth in passengers didn't come from explosive population growth in Akron-Canton in the early 2000s. The tide has turned though. CAK's passenger counts have been steadily declining since they peaked in summer 2012. I think I read somewhere that summer 2014 counts are down close to 20% from summer 2012. And with discount Frontier starting up at CLE this summer and now ultra discount Spirit this winter, CAK won't have much, if any, of a price advantage over CLE anymore. The vast majority of fliers will fly from the airport that has a combination of destinations, convenience, and lower fares, which for many in NE Ohio, will end up being predominantly CLE.

 

Now that Spirit has announced non-stop service to Los Angeles from Cleveland (at fares of ~$230 r/t), US Airways, American, and Delta, while not offering non stop flights have lowered fares in the $230-260 range with a connection for many dates through next summer. Those fares from CLE to LAX were virtually unheard of the past few years. So even if flying on one of these discount carriers is not your thing it will likely still reduce your cost to fly on a legacy carrier. This will end up having a positive effect on stimulating more traffic through CLE in the coming year.

 

 

Exactly. I do expect CLE's counts to eventually go up, but I doubt we'll see it until next year.

 

BTW, the loss of hub status and that airline's ability to lock up gate space with old leases, thus keeping out competition and keeping fares high is the magic elixir that has sent Cincinnati travelers to Dayton, Louisville and Indy. CLE isn't quite the same situation although PIT's is pretty close.

Agree. CAK's growth was from stealing passengers in PIT and CLE (which had an overpriced US Air hub and then the CO/UA hub at CLE). That growth in passengers didn't come from explosive population growth in Akron-Canton in the early 2000s. The tide has turned though. CAK's passenger counts have been steadily declining since they peaked in summer 2012. I think I read somewhere that summer 2014 counts are down close to 20% from summer 2012. And with discount Frontier starting up at CLE this summer and now ultra discount Spirit this winter, CAK won't have much, if any, of a price advantage over CLE anymore. The vast majority of fliers will fly from the airport that has a combination of destinations, convenience, and lower fares, which for many in NE Ohio, will end up being predominantly CLE.

 

Now that Spirit has announced non-stop service to Los Angeles from Cleveland (at fares of ~$230 r/t), US Airways, American, and Delta, while not offering non stop flights have lowered fares in the $230-260 range with a connection for many dates through next summer. Those fares from CLE to LAX were virtually unheard of the past few years. So even if flying on one of these discount carriers is not your thing it will likely still reduce your cost to fly on a legacy carrier. This will end up having a positive effect on stimulating more traffic through CLE in the coming year.

 

 

Exactly. I do expect CLE's counts to eventually go up, but I doubt we'll see it until next year.

 

BTW, the loss of hub status and that airline's ability to lock up gate space with old leases, thus keeping out competition and keeping fares high is the magic elixir that has sent Cincinnati travelers to Dayton, Louisville and Indy. CLE isn't quite the same situation although PIT's is pretty close.

 

So where is Spirit going, Concourse A?  I cannot believe that D is not being used!

Agree. CAK's growth was from stealing passengers in PIT and CLE (which had an overpriced US Air hub and then the CO/UA hub at CLE). That growth in passengers didn't come from explosive population growth in Akron-Canton in the early 2000s. The tide has turned though. CAK's passenger counts have been steadily declining since they peaked in summer 2012. I think I read somewhere that summer 2014 counts are down close to 20% from summer 2012. And with discount Frontier starting up at CLE this summer and now ultra discount Spirit this winter, CAK won't have much, if any, of a price advantage over CLE anymore. The vast majority of fliers will fly from the airport that has a combination of destinations, convenience, and lower fares, which for many in NE Ohio, will end up being predominantly CLE.

 

Now that Spirit has announced non-stop service to Los Angeles from Cleveland (at fares of ~$230 r/t), US Airways, American, and Delta, while not offering non stop flights have lowered fares in the $230-260 range with a connection for many dates through next summer. Those fares from CLE to LAX were virtually unheard of the past few years. So even if flying on one of these discount carriers is not your thing it will likely still reduce your cost to fly on a legacy carrier. This will end up having a positive effect on stimulating more traffic through CLE in the coming year.

 

 

Exactly. I do expect CLE's counts to eventually go up, but I doubt we'll see it until next year.

 

BTW, the loss of hub status and that airline's ability to lock up gate space with old leases, thus keeping out competition and keeping fares high is the magic elixir that has sent Cincinnati travelers to Dayton, Louisville and Indy. CLE isn't quite the same situation although PIT's is pretty close.

 

So where is Spirit going, Concourse A?  I cannot believe that D is not being used!

 

CAK didn't steal that many passengers...Again those fares stimulated demand.  Frontier already has in CLE,  Evidence points that O&D is a little higher than expected.  There will be a loss on account of non-connecting PAX from UAL.  Also...the CLE metro is big enough to support two airports

 

Yields in CLE are very good too.  I noticed that CLE has two UAL non-stops to LAX a day.  Did you know that the fares are over $800.00 coach and almost $1,400.00 First?  By comparison, it is almost half that in CMH and they only have one daily on DAL.  AA operates less than daily (4x per week)

 

So with these low cost carriers, there will be a downward pressure on fares.  More people will be able to afford to fly. 

I have heard that Spirit will be in C Concourse

Agree. CAK's growth was from stealing passengers in PIT and CLE (which had an overpriced US Air hub and then the CO/UA hub at CLE). That growth in passengers didn't come from explosive population growth in Akron-Canton in the early 2000s. The tide has turned though. CAK's passenger counts have been steadily declining since they peaked in summer 2012. I think I read somewhere that summer 2014 counts are down close to 20% from summer 2012. And with discount Frontier starting up at CLE this summer and now ultra discount Spirit this winter, CAK won't have much, if any, of a price advantage over CLE anymore. The vast majority of fliers will fly from the airport that has a combination of destinations, convenience, and lower fares, which for many in NE Ohio, will end up being predominantly CLE.

 

Now that Spirit has announced non-stop service to Los Angeles from Cleveland (at fares of ~$230 r/t), US Airways, American, and Delta, while not offering non stop flights have lowered fares in the $230-260 range with a connection for many dates through next summer. Those fares from CLE to LAX were virtually unheard of the past few years. So even if flying on one of these discount carriers is not your thing it will likely still reduce your cost to fly on a legacy carrier. This will end up having a positive effect on stimulating more traffic through CLE in the coming year.

 

 

Exactly. I do expect CLE's counts to eventually go up, but I doubt we'll see it until next year.

 

BTW, the loss of hub status and that airline's ability to lock up gate space with old leases, thus keeping out competition and keeping fares high is the magic elixir that has sent Cincinnati travelers to Dayton, Louisville and Indy. CLE isn't quite the same situation although PIT's is pretty close.

 

So where is Spirit going, Concourse A?  I cannot believe that D is not being used!

 

CAK didn't steal that many passengers...Again those fares stimulated demand.  Frontier already has in CLE,  Evidence points that O&D is a little higher than expected.  There will be a loss on account of non-connecting PAX from UAL.  Also...the CLE metro is big enough to support two airports

 

Yields in CLE are very good too.  I noticed that CLE has two UAL non-stops to LAX a day.  Did you know that the fares are over $800.00 coach and almost $1,400.00 First?  By comparison, it is almost half that in CMH and they only have one daily on DAL.  AA operates less than daily (4x per week)

 

So with these low cost carriers, there will be a downward pressure on fares.  More people will be able to afford to fly. 

 

Ironically this is all done without the "Southwest effect".

LOL...Southwest is often the most expensive choice...or at least no cheaper than the competition....and at sub-par service....no first..no interline agreements...

LOL...Southwest is often the most expensive choice...or at least no cheaper than the competition....and at sub-par service....no first..no interline agreements...

 

You and I know that, but the are a viable option in many parts of the country.  Look at MSY, PHX, LAS, MCO, SAN, OAK and LAX.  They are traditional SW fortress "focus" cities.  I didn't include DAL  As they expanded, BWI became the focus on the East Coast

I used to fly Southwest nearly weekly... And yet I haven't been on their planes now in years. Grew weary of the hassle and fares weren't that great as noted, plus multiple stops cross country.

 

With that said,  I still can't shake flying United, despite the changes. Too many miles, too much status and more flights to/from CLE (95% for business ).  Even with a status match on AA  or DL, flight options will be more limited.  Not sure I want that. Stuck.

I used to fly Southwest nearly weekly... And yet I haven't been on their planes now in years. Grew weary of the hassle and fares weren't that great as noted, plus multiple stops cross country.

 

With that said,  I still can't shake flying United, despite the changes. Too many miles, too much status and more flights to/from CLE (95% for business ).  Even with a status match on AA  or DL, flight options will be more limited.  Not sure I want that. Stuck.

 

thats what happens when you are a "hub captive".  Thats why so many people in hub cities have a trouble switching when a hub closes or downsizes.  I always had Continental/United first but AA and Delta in the mix.  When I come form the Westcoast I used to have atleast 5 options from LAX to CLE.  Now I have two flights.  So I'm forced to transfer in ORD.

 

If I was a leisure travler, it wouldn't be as bad to switch, as most a looking for the best value and tend to book far out.

I used to fly Southwest nearly weekly... And yet I haven't been on their planes now in years. Grew weary of the hassle and fares weren't that great as noted, plus multiple stops cross country.

 

With that said,  I still can't shake flying United, despite the changes. Too many miles, too much status and more flights to/from CLE (95% for business ).  Even with a status match on AA  or DL, flight options will be more limited.  Not sure I want that. Stuck.

ir

 

You got tired of SWA because their business model is not geared toward the business traveler or the discerning traveler.  As far as UAL, most major markets have a dominant carrier and CLE's is UAL....going back to the 1930's.  Even with a CAL hub, UAL did a good business in CLE.

I used to fly Southwest nearly weekly... And yet I haven't been on their planes now in years. Grew weary of the hassle and fares weren't that great as noted, plus multiple stops cross country.

 

With that said,  I still can't shake flying United, despite the changes. Too many miles, too much status and more flights to/from CLE (95% for business ).  Even with a status match on AA  or DL, flight options will be more limited.  Not sure I want that. Stuck.

ir

 

You got tired of SWA because their business model is not geared toward the business traveler or the discerning traveler.  As far as UAL, most major markets have a dominant carrier and CLE's is UAL....going back to the 1930's.  Even with a CAL hub, UAL did a good business in CLE.

 

Not to mention USAir was the dominate carrier at Hopkins in the 1990s

I used to fly Southwest nearly weekly... And yet I haven't been on their planes now in years. Grew weary of the hassle and fares weren't that great as noted, plus multiple stops cross country.

 

With that said,  I still can't shake flying United, despite the changes. Too many miles, too much status and more flights to/from CLE (95% for business ).  Even with a status match on AA  or DL, flight options will be more limited.  Not sure I want that. Stuck.

ir

 

You got tired of SWA because their business model is not geared toward the business traveler or the discerning traveler.  As far as UAL, most major markets have a dominant carrier and CLE's is UAL....going back to the 1930's.  Even with a CAL hub, UAL did a good business in CLE.

 

Not to mention USAir was the dominate carrier at Hopkins in the 1990s

 

Not really.  From about 1986 to 1992 they had at max approx. 120 fights per day.  CAL, which began hubbing at CLE around spring 1987 eventually built up to approx. 400 flights per day by the early 90's.  This was in the pre Bethune era.  CLE had two full fledged hubs going on that time.  Plus I remember as MD-88 pilot back then flying into CLE a lot from CVG and ATL.  Both UAL and AA were flying widebodies into CLE too. 

I used to fly Southwest nearly weekly... And yet I haven't been on their planes now in years. Grew weary of the hassle and fares weren't that great as noted, plus multiple stops cross country.

 

With that said,  I still can't shake flying United, despite the changes. Too many miles, too much status and more flights to/from CLE (95% for business ).  Even with a status match on AA  or DL, flight options will be more limited.  Not sure I want that. Stuck.

ir

 

You got tired of SWA because their business model is not geared toward the business traveler or the discerning traveler.  As far as UAL, most major markets have a dominant carrier and CLE's is UAL....going back to the 1930's.  Even with a CAL hub, UAL did a good business in CLE.

 

Not to mention USAir was the dominate carrier at Hopkins in the 1990s

 

Not really.  From about 1986 to 1992 they had at max approx. 120 fights per day.  CAL, which began hubbing at CLE around spring 1987 eventually built up to approx. 400 flights per day by the early 90's.  This was in the pre Bethune era.  CLE had two full fledged hubs going on that time.  Plus I remember as MD-88 pilot back then flying into CLE a lot from CVG and ATL.  Both UAL and AA were flying widebodies into CLE too. 

While CAL was building a hub USAir was the dominate carrier at Hopkins.  At one point both wanted to build hubs at Hopkins.  I remember the negotiation they had with SOHIO at the time.

 

http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1129&dat=19870223&id=0MpRAAAAIBAJ&sjid=4G0DAAAAIBAJ&pg=4135,6758109

 

Right after this USAir had more flights than any other airline at Hopkins.

Thanks for that article.  they did indeed have the most flights after UAL pulled out and prior to CAL's hub.  In fact, the date of the article pretty much coincides with CAL's announcement of the CLE hub.

Thanks for that article.  they did indeed have the most flights after UAL pulled out and prior to CAL's hub.  In fact, the date of the article pretty much coincides with CAL's announcement of the CLE hub.

 

Remember USAir was trying to play spoiler.  This is when they were buying up regionals.  AA and TWA were still flying to the east coast and west coast from Cleveland.

Thanks for that article.  they did indeed have the most flights after UAL pulled out and prior to CAL's hub.  In fact, the date of the article pretty much coincides with CAL's announcement of the CLE hub.

 

Remember USAir was trying to play spoiler.  This is when they were buying up regionals.  AA and TWA were still flying to the east coast and west coast from Cleveland.

 

tru that...

 

TWA had a 707-320B service from CLE-JFK-LHR with no change of plane until I think 1984 or 1985 when they finally retired the last of their 707's.

For the record' date=' DL did add some flights--to IND and BDL. AA upgauged some equipment on existing routes.[/quote']

 

ummm....scratch that about IND---DL's latest schedule upload drops CLE-IND. Before it even started.

For the record' date=' DL did add some flights--to IND and BDL. AA upgauged some equipment on existing routes.[/quote']

 

ummm....scratch that about IND---DL's latest schedule upload drops CLE-IND. Before it even started.

 

No surprise.  That's within the radius where if you are going to need a car at your destination, its nearly as quick to drive, with much less hassle.

For the record' date=' DL did add some flights--to IND and BDL. AA upgauged some equipment on existing routes.[/quote']

 

ummm....scratch that about IND---DL's latest schedule upload drops CLE-IND. Before it even started.

 

This route has been operating since early June. Its quick demise is no surprise considering how close it is and at only once a day, not convenient for business travelers who would be the primary users of the flight.

 

Sadly, the Frontier flights to New York City will only be running for 2 months at the end of the year, instead of year round.

As I've said before, these new flight won't help business travelers but it will help with Leisure travel into and out of the city.  It provides more options and with our hospitality star rising, these cheap flights will provide options for those who want to see the city on a budget.  This happened in Philly and Boston.

Cleveland May Be Better Off Without Its United Airlines Hub

 

http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2014/10/04/cleveland-may-be-better-off-without-its-united-air.aspx

I disagree as we lost the business market and we have fewer west coast frequencies.

 

As more conventions are booked and people travel to the city, I think, other carries will increase flights from their hubs and Continental United will rethink more point-to-point service.  I think IAD and DEN will see a reduction in service, so maybe the equipment used will be moved to CLE?

 

Only time will tell.

More graphics at the following link:

 

http://planning.city.cleveland.oh.us/designreview/drcagenda/2014/10172014/index.php

 

City Planning Commission

Agenda for October 17, 2014

 

Df2014-022 - Hopkins Airport Terminal Exterior Renovation - Final Approval

Project Location: Hopkins Airport

Project Representative: Hugh Holley, City of Cleveland

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Its only cosmetic---no real capacity changes--but its looks good. But I'd rather the money be spent on real things like a new customs/immigration hall.

To those who are "in the know" about flight frequencies - I noticed that CLE-STL ceases to exist by Christmas.  This was one of the routes United specifically called out that was supposed to stay.  Any mutterings about more cuts in your circles?

To those who are "in the know" about flight frequencies - I noticed that CLE-STL ceases to exist by Christmas.  This was one of the routes United specifically called out that was supposed to stay.  Any mutterings about more cuts in your circles?

 

just a temporary cut around the holidays.  it's back in January

just a temporary cut around the holidays.  it's back in January

 

Why cut flights only during the peak holiday travel season??

Airlines do lots of flight shuffling during the holidays. Business travel falls off a cliff during the 2 week period of Christmas and New Years. As such, routes which are business heavy see reductions in service as airlines shift aircraft to serve more leisure routes. After New Years, the airlines go back to normal schedules.

 

 

Is the ebola aircraft in CLE? Here is what the aircraft did in chronological order. The First flight listed is the one the patient was on.

 

Date Aircraft Origin Destination Departure Arrival Duration

13-Oct-14 A320/L CLE DFW 06:31PM EDT 08:08PM CDT 2:36

14-Oct-14 A320/L DFW CLE 08:11AM CDT 11:14AM EDT 2:03

14-Oct-14 A320/L CLE FLL 12:24PM EDT 03:00PM EDT 2:36

14-Oct-14 A320/L FLL CLE 04:02PM EDT 06:16PM EDT 2:14

14-Oct-14 A320/L CLE ATL 07:24PM EDT 09:03PM EDT 1:39

14-Oct-14 A320/L ATL CLE 10:12PM EDT 11:19PM EDT 1:07

15-Oct-14 QUARANTINED.

The "Clean" plane is now ready to re-enter pax service, though its departure is now 4 hrs late.

The flight has now been cancelled. (Finally).

To those who are "in the know" about flight frequencies - I noticed that CLE-STL ceases to exist by Christmas.  This was one of the routes United specifically called out that was supposed to stay.  Any mutterings about more cuts in your circles?

 

just a temporary cut around the holidays.  it's back in January

 

They haven't previously cut that route during the holidays.  I've been taking that for years.  Now we'll have to tackle an ORD layover with a 1.5 year old.  Awesome.  We've done Atlanta a few times with her, but Atlanta bothers me a lot less than ORD.  Grr.

To those who are "in the know" about flight frequencies - I noticed that CLE-STL ceases to exist by Christmas.  This was one of the routes United specifically called out that was supposed to stay.  Any mutterings about more cuts in your circles?

 

just a temporary cut around the holidays.  it's back in January

 

They haven't previously cut that route during the holidays.  I've been taking that for years.  Now we'll have to tackle an ORD layover with a 1.5 year old.  Awesome.  We've done Atlanta a few times with her, but Atlanta bothers me a lot less than ORD.  Grr.

 

It wasn't cut in the past because CLE was a hub - though I think the frequency might have been reduced from 3 or 4 to 2 or 3.  Also, consider DTW to connect on Delta.

F9 is cutting CLE-ORD at the start of the new year.

F9 is cutting CLE-ORD at the start of the new year.

F9 is Frontier for all those who aren't familiar with all the codes.  Seriously, how hard is it to type Frontier as opposed to F9?  :-o