Cleveland Hopkins passenger traffic continues to rebound from United cuts, sees 4 percent growth in 2016

 

CLEVELAND, Ohio - Cleveland Hopkins International Airport continues to rebound from the loss of its United Airlines hub, drawing nearly 4 percent more passengers in 2016 than the year before.

 

The airport served 8.42 million travelers in 2016, an increase of 3.95 percent over 2015.

 

The number is still lower than 2013, the last full year that United operated a hub in Cleveland, when 9.07 million passengers passed through Hopkins. But the gap is closing.

 

http://www.cleveland.com/travel/index.ssf/2017/02/cleveland_hopkins_passenger_tr_1.html

 

Wow, great news! 

Our airport numbers are atrocious. Don't read such data out of context. The article says:

 

"The airport served 8.42 million travelers in 2016, an increase of 3.95 percent over 2015.The number is still lower than 2013, the last full year that United operated a hub in Cleveland, when 9.07 million passengers passed through Hopkins. But the gap is closing..."

 

Was there no life before three years ago, 2013?  CLE is still WAY below where we were when Smisek decided to begin killing the CLE hub. In 2015, Hopkins ranked 46th in the US. 46th! are we're around the 20th largest metro region in the country. Give 2-3 airports for NY, Chicago, etc. we still should be higher than 46th. In very RECENT times, we ranked around 35th with about 11m passengers per year.  8.42 million is nothing to celebrate. If we set the target as the one second before UA killed the CLE hub--which is what we're doing--we setting our goals and standards well below where we should be. We should be fixing things, not telling ourselves everything's good now. Here are recent passengers counts and ranks:

 

Year US Rank Passengers

2004   35   10.8M

2005   35   11.1M

2006   36   10.9M

2007   35   11.1M

2008   34   10.8M

 

yes, there was a recession--but since then all other cities have regained--and then surpassed--their pre-recession numbers. We haven't.

 

 

I've said this on this board so many times. I still don't see what the big deal is. I get through security every week in under 10 minutes and sit in peace waiting for my plane. I can get almost everywhere I need to go in one flight. What's the obsession with numbers?

I can get almost everywhere I need to go in one flight.

 

That's great, but that's not true for MOST of the world when it comes to Cleveland--especially anyone in Europe who is considering a Cleveland operation or office. That lack of direct flight, means that job, or office, or contract, goes to people in other cities. Cleveland no longer even has directly flights to major (for CLE) US business centers anymore, such as Albany or Kansas City.

 

Its not about numbers. Its about service frequency, number of seats, and destinations. And without them, our numbers drop. Numbers are only indicators to demonstrate something is very wrong. My point is, using numbers, but only starting in 2013, instead of 2000 or 2005, is VERY MISLEADING and dishonest. Further, its worse--it makes everything seem fine, like all is rosy, when in fact, we're falling farther and farther behind other US cities every year.  Another LCC route to Florida isn't going to grow or help employment in CLE one bit.

Our airport numbers are atrocious. Don't read such data out of context. The article says:

 

"The airport served 8.42 million travelers in 2016, an increase of 3.95 percent over 2015.The number is still lower than 2013, the last full year that United operated a hub in Cleveland, when 9.07 million passengers passed through Hopkins. But the gap is closing..."

 

Was there no life before three years ago, 2013?  CLE is still WAY below where we were when Smisek decided to begin killing the CLE hub. In 2015, Hopkins ranked 46th in the US. 46th! are we're around the 20th largest metro region in the country. Give 2-3 airports for NY, Chicago, etc. we still should be higher than 46th. In very RECENT times, we ranked around 35th with about 11m passengers per year.  8.42 million is nothing to celebrate. If we set the target as the one second before UA killed the CLE hub--which is what we're doing--we setting our goals and standards well below where we should be. We should be fixing things, not telling ourselves everything's good now. Here are recent passengers counts and ranks:

 

Year US Rank Passengers

2004   35   10.8M

2005   35   11.1M

2006   36   10.9M

2007   35   11.1M

2008   34   10.8M

 

yes, there was a recession--but since then all other cities have regained--and then surpassed--their pre-recession numbers. We haven't.

 

CLE isn't doing much worse than other nearby airports. Pittsburgh isn't anywhere near where it was even when comparing now to their first few years without a hub. Columbus has been trending up but it still trails its numbers in the mid 2000s. Indy has a brand new terminal but is barely ahead of where it was from 2004-2008. Even Detroit is down two million from what it did in 2007 and that's a much larger airport and market.

 

The other thing to remember about airport size is that market size isn't necessarily relative to arrival numbers. Orlando, Las Vegas, Fort Lauderdale, etc. have massive tourist traffic that Cleveland has never had. That makes its overall performance look worse than it is.

 

There's no doubt that CLE is historically an underperformer but it's hardly as bad as you're making it sound. To say that all airports have surpassed pre recession numbers isn't true. Not to mention most of CLE's rust belt peers don't have a CAK competing against them either.

 

 

^

1. My point was 8M or 9M is nothing to celebrate--and it is presented improperly.

2. CAK or not, CAK was there before 2013. It didn't suddenly appear in 2013.

3. To compete globally, we have to stop comparing ourselves to Buffalo, Indianapolis, Pittsburgh, and other rust belt places. No one is dying to get into those places, but they are into Chicago, NY, Atlanta, etc.  Its a substitute for action:  Lets compare ourselves to Buffalo, and feel good, rather than cities we want to be like or to the US as a whole.

I can get almost everywhere I need to go in one flight.

 

That's great, but that's not true for MOST of the world when it comes to Cleveland--especially anyone in Europe who is considering a Cleveland operation or office. That lack of direct flight, means that job, or office, or contract, goes to people in other cities. Cleveland no longer even has directly flights to major (for CLE) US business centers anymore, such as Albany or Kansas City.

 

Its not about numbers. Its about service frequency, number of seats, and destinations. And without them, our numbers drop. Numbers are only indicators to demonstrate something is very wrong. My point is, using numbers, but only starting in 2013, instead of 2000 or 2005, is VERY MISLEADING and dishonest. Further, its worse--it makes everything seem fine, like all is rosy, when in fact, we're falling farther and farther behind other US cities every year.  Another LCC route to Florida isn't going to grow or help employment in CLE one bit.

 

Are you suggesting more flights to more locations will aide in company's moving jobs here?  Was the case when we were a hub?  The numbers during the continental years are likely all related to connections here to get elsewhere. If we are directly correlating our airport numbers to our status as it relates to "other US cities", I would actually say the pre-united departure numbers are more misleading

  CLE is still WAY below where we were when Smisek decided to begin killing the CLE hub.

 

Which action corresponded with the commencement of CO's merger talks with UA. I think we will read, when somebody writes the book, that the death of CLE was part of the price CO had to pay to merge with UA.  One of panic-driven Smisek's other mistakes was moving the headquarters out of Houston.

 

For the people who think air service doesn't matter, look at Caterpillar - which recently announced it is moving to Chicago partly because of air service deficiencies in Peoria. Cincy has lost a couple of headquarters for the same reason. As Pugu said, CLE needs multiple daily frequencies to the top 25 business markets and at least one flight to a European hub to be  competitive as a corporate headquarters location.

Are you suggesting more flights to more locations will aide in company's moving jobs here?

 

Yes. Without question.

Maybe, was that the case when we had a hub? Is that the case in Detroit?

No--it's always the case. Given a choice, businesses want direct access to cities. So say you're a company in China or Germany--and you want a US operation--an office in LA or NYC, PHL, BOS, SF, Chicago--is far more likely to get that business than a city without direct access.

I don't disagree--but I do remember when Continental flew the CLE-LGW route it was in an old B757 with no lie-flat seating.    If I am going to Europe (which I do frequently) and had to choose, I would route myself through Newark for a chance for flat-bed over the pond rather than sitting upright all night in an old plane.  Likewise when the Continental hub was here, there was an awful lot of RJ's and props servicing those many markets.  I'd rather see some quality along with the quantity....

I don't disagree--but I do remember when Continental flew the CLE-LGW route it was in an old B757 with no lie-flat seating.    If I am going to Europe (which I do frequently) and had to choose, I would route myself through Newark for a chance for flat-bed over the pond rather than sitting upright all night in an old plane.  Likewise when the Continental hub was here, there was an awful lot of RJ's and props servicing those many markets.  I'd rather see some quality along with the quantity....

 

With all of United's cuts out of Cleveland, at least most of their mainline feeder service is on the larger aircraft.  With the exception of IAH... connecting there sucks because it's all ExpressJet.

I don't disagree--but I do remember when Continental flew the CLE-LGW route it was in an old B757 with no lie-flat seating.    If I am going to Europe (which I do frequently) and had to choose, I would route myself through Newark for a chance for flat-bed over the pond rather than sitting upright all night in an old plane.  Likewise when the Continental hub was here, there was an awful lot of RJ's and props servicing those many markets.  I'd rather see some quality along with the quantity....

 

For those of us who can't afford more than coach, the direct flight to the UK was great.

I don't disagree--but I do remember when Continental flew the CLE-LGW route it was in an old B757 with no lie-flat seating.    If I am going to Europe (which I do frequently) and had to choose, I would route myself through Newark for a chance for flat-bed over the pond rather than sitting upright all night in an old plane.  Likewise when the Continental hub was here, there was an awful lot of RJ's and props servicing those many markets.  I'd rather see some quality along with the quantity....

 

For those of us who can't afford more than coach, the direct flight to the UK was great.

 

 

Coach doesn't support a high-yield route, along with all the business travelers and jobs that come with it mentioned up-thread.  And even frequent business travelers in coach would like the chance to get upgraded if flying the route routinely.

Coach doesn't support a high-yield route, along with all the business travelers and jobs that come with it mentioned up-thread.  And even frequent business travelers in coach would like the chance to get upgraded if flying the route routinely.

 

Good for them.

^Many companies provide their employees with business class seating for flights over 8 hours.  In many cases it's not about personal wealth, but company policy.

Must be nice.

^Its actually less and less common. Companies used to have such polices, but now lots of companies make the majority of their staff fly coach regardless of distance....there are still some of the good old companies, but it is certainly less common than say ten years ago as a way to run a business....

Over the last 15 years there are many, many companies that use a third party to "lease" time on a Jetstream or other private jet and share the aircraft with others. It offers a convenience factor airlines can't match, even in First Class. Even non-corporate schlubs use 'em.  :laugh:

 

And, yes, they do cross the pond.

Kingdom of Saudi Arabia plane at Hopkins.

Kingdom of Saudi Arabia plane at Hopkins.

 

The sultan needs heart surgery!

Kingdom of Saudi Arabia plane at Hopkins.

 

The sultan needs heart surgery!

 

My son has been at the Clinic for the past couple of weeks, and one night when I was leaving this week, a security guard was coming on duty and exclaimed to the person sitting at the info desk in the lobby that he was "headed up to watch the prince".  I figured someone from there was here!

Kingdom of Saudi Arabia plane at Hopkins.

 

That plane, an executive version of the 737, came non-stop from Paris and two hours later departed for Los Angeles.  If they dropped a royal off at the Clinic, I guess his wives continued their shopping spree on Rodeo Drive. A couple of times, however, the Saudis have used uncrowded CLE as a gas-and-go/customs clearance stop for their smaller planes.

So apparently a Bar Symon is replacing the just-closed C concourse Panini's? (Saw the Facebook talk then found construction bids). Ate at Bar Symon PIT airport location and it was very good - as though an off-site restaurant.

 

Haven't seen any sign of a Noodlecat but they got a liquor license for CLE 6-9 months ago.

 

Now if AA would just move gates sooner than later Spring-Summer as I last heard.

That's great news! Was hoping it would be a local joint. Symon has been on record saying he loves that concept and it was one of his favorites, just wasn't a good fit in Avon

Kingdom of Saudi Arabia plane at Hopkins.

 

The sultan needs heart surgery!

 

My son has been at the Clinic for the past couple of weeks, and one night when I was leaving this week, a security guard was coming on duty and exclaimed to the person sitting at the info desk in the lobby that he was "headed up to watch the prince".  I figured someone from there was here!

 

I hope your son is ok. That's a long time to be in the hospital.

Kingdom of Saudi Arabia plane at Hopkins.

 

The sultan needs heart surgery!

 

My son has been at the Clinic for the past couple of weeks, and one night when I was leaving this week, a security guard was coming on duty and exclaimed to the person sitting at the info desk in the lobby that he was "headed up to watch the prince".  I figured someone from there was here!

 

I hope your son is ok. That's a long time to be in the hospital.

 

We escaped yesterday....  hopefully for good this time!  When I left Case after 9 years, I didn't think I'd ever see that much of University Circle again!  Lol.  I guess the upside is knowing the area well enough to not be intimidated by that monstrosity of a hospital campus!

 

Annyyyyway, back on topic.  Bar Symon is exciting!  I haven't hung out much in C lately since I've been flying almost exclusively Delta the past couple years (well, I haven't hung out much anywhere lately since I was on maternity leave and therefore not traveling).  Was it just not busy enough for Panini's liking?

^I suspect the new commissioner is a mover and shaker, just based on his quotes, what I've read and his experience.  If I were to take a guess, I would imagine he's trying to elevate the perception.  The Symon named  carries a lot of weight

Panini's and Bar Symon both seem to be licenses that United Concessions has...Perhaps just swapping out brands... though the Symon play in CLE will be huge.Curious if they will expand/take some gate space next to space as Panini's wasn't all that large (Bar Symon PIT prob 3-4x this size.)

 

http://unitedconcessionsgroup.com/contact-us/

 

 

We escaped yesterday....  hopefully for good this time!  When I left Case after 9 years, I didn't think I'd ever see that much of University Circle again!  Lol.  I guess the upside is knowing the area well enough to not be intimidated by that monstrosity of a hospital campus!

 

 

Had a similar experience with UH, Ardyn has been to Rainbow twice when much younger for breathing, and her mom was in Lakeside in late May/early June.  She became enamored of a "Planck" swing on the Quad.

Looks like Brew Kettle set up some type of cafe across from C3, looks kind of awkward but efficient use of space I suppose.

 

Agree regarding being excited for American to move to C. It will put more energy over there and the A wing can be just considered the low fare wing

Looks like Brew Kettle set up some type of cafe across from C3, looks kind of awkward but efficient use of space I suppose.

 

Agree regarding being excited for American to move to C. It will put more energy over there and the A wing can be just considered the low fare wing

 

Or they can tear down the A wing and replace it with a new modern terminal, including upgraded FCIS space.

 

Or they can tear down the A wing and replace it with a new modern terminal, including upgraded FCIS space.

 

How about we make use of the still-new but abandoned Terminal D first?

 

Or they can tear down the A wing and replace it with a new modern terminal, including upgraded FCIS space.

 

How about we make use of the still-new but abandoned Terminal D first?

 

Too far to walk for your average CLE O/D customer.  It wasn't so bad for Continental customers changing planes who left their gate at C and walked over to D.  Plus it is really only suited to deal with regional jets and props. 

 

Of course I'm asking a lot from an airport that just spent tens of millions of dollars in renovations and you still have to unload and load passengers curbide in pouring down rain, sleet or snow...not that CLE ever sees bad weather.  :roll:

In addition to the usual 3 Fedex flights, UPS has a bunch of lift out of CLE tonight - MD11, A306, and B752 to Louisville. I wonder if that's a UPS record outside of the Christmas season. It's always a nice economic indicator to see the freight guys doing well. 

In addition to the usual 3 Fedex flights, UPS has a bunch of lift out of CLE tonight - MD11, A306, and B752 to Louisville. I wonder if that's a UPS record outside of the Christmas season. It's always a nice economic indicator to see the freight guys doing well. 

 

I love seeing their MD-11 on the ramp.    It's a shame these are the only heavies serving Cleveland.

Judging from light wood & metal materials consistent with the look of American Airlines gates in Chicago - in roped off, under-construction low/mid gate #s in the C concourse - it appears that work on converting former United gates to AA gates has finally begun.

Judging from light wood & metal materials consistent with the look of American Airlines gates in Chicago - in roped off, under-construction low/mid gate #s in the C concourse - it appears that work on converting former United gates to AA gates has finally begun.

 

Finally!  I'm curious what their timetable is; this move will definitely put their gates closer together.

Finally!  I'm curious what their timetable is; this move will definitely put their gates closer together.

 

Southwest has a website warning that CLE has a large-scale baggage modernization project underway, although the airport hasn't said anything about it. I'd guess that AA's timetable matches the baggage project's completion date.

Southwest has a website warning that CLE has a large-scale baggage modernization project underway, although the airport hasn't said anything about it. I'd guess that AA's timetable matches the baggage project's completion date.

 

I know they were originally supposed to be done with the baggage claim project in June, but I wonder if they are on time with that one.  At least the baggage project was mostly paid for by the TSA.

 

http://www.crainscleveland.com/article/20151118/NEWS/151119773/cleveland-hopkins-international-airports-60-million-construction

If Frontier execs are flying to Hopkins for this it's probably for a decent sized expansion which is a bit surprising because Cleveland is one of their larger stations already. Maybe a crew base? Maybe Caribbean routes? Of the wall would be a Frontier code share with Norwegian or another Euro low cost carrier and the start of real international service.

 

I don't know why, but I remembered this post from a while back about Norwegian.  Here is their announcement:

 

Norwegian Air adds budget transatlantic flights from two U.S. airports

 

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-norweg-air-shut-transatlantic-idUSKBN17730V?utm_campaign=trueAnthem:+Trending+Content&utm_content=58e5943f04d301254556658f&utm_medium=trueAnthem&utm_source=twitter

Additional construction has begun on gates in Concourse C in preparation for American Airline's move there.  Does anyone know how many gates they will have in total when all is done?  The last time I was there, I saw construction at gate C3 and C5/7, and I hear that C9, C11, and C4 are being worked on as well.  I imagine the work at C4 may be unrelated to AA, but I have no idea.

 

It's nice to see some movement on this; about a year ago, I don't think any gates at the airport had true gate information displays, and now both American and United will have updated, modern gate stands.  I'll be there in two weeks; I'll see about posting some construction photos when I go.

 

 

Yeah its refreshing and American already moved its mid day charlotte and philly flights up in the A concourse, so you dont have to walk all the way to the back.  It seems to me that the low fare airlines have now begun to claim that back area of concourse A.  This is a good move.  I feel Concourse C will be alot more professional looking with American in the front and United in the back...some pretty good food offerings in the mix as well.

Also, for you folks with a deep knowledge, Hopkins advertises a seasonal United non stop to Charleston, SC on its website but I cannot find when that flight takes places at all.  I need to go there for work and would certainly schedule my visit around the non stop but there is NO information on it at all.

Also, for you folks with a deep knowledge, Hopkins advertises a seasonal United non stop to Charleston, SC on its website but I cannot find when that flight takes places at all.  I need to go there for work and would certainly schedule my visit around the non stop but there is NO information on it at all.

 

I believe it's Saturday only. Or it's a Saturday departure/Sunday arrival.

 

Found the departure:

 

UA flight 3849 - Dep 700a Sat.

 

Can't find the return and I don't have access to the UA database.

 

I think it's already sold out which is why you can't find the non-stop on searches.

 

Pretty easy to fill up 50 seats to a beach/golf destination on a weekend.

 

Also, for you folks with a deep knowledge, Hopkins advertises a seasonal United non stop to Charleston, SC on its website but I cannot find when that flight takes places at all.  I need to go there for work and would certainly schedule my visit around the non stop but there is NO information on it at all.

 

I believe it's Saturday only. Or it's a Saturday departure/Sunday arrival.

 

Found the departure:

 

UA flight 3849 - Dep 700a Sat.

 

Can't find the return and I don't have access to the UA database.

 

I think it's already sold out which is why you can't find the non-stop on searches.

 

Pretty easy to fill up 50 seats to a beach/golf destination on a weekend.

 

The return is flight 4445 departing 9:45 from CHS on a random date in July (I used July 15).

Does anybody know how the Cle-Aus non-stop on Allegiant is doing?

That route only started in February.

^  Allegiant's prices are time-variable.  A seat on today's departure costs about three and a half times what the same flight two weeks from now costs.  I'd say they are close to selling out today's plane. Of course that flight is only one instance.

 

If the flights don't do well, Allegiant is famous for cancelling the route fast; so if they'r still operating CLE-AUS by June, I'd say they're at least meeting their expectations. A good sign would be if they add another flight or two to their present two a week schedule. The government won't release hard traffic data until about five months after the fact.