Hopkins CATS report for the year ended Dec 31, 2016, says they reduced the debt to $724 million - and it's probably lower than that today. That's down $132 million from the start of 2013.  Nice work for a dehubbed airport.

 

https://cats.airports.faa.gov/Reports/rpt127.cfm

Hopkins CATS report for the year ended Dec 31, 2016, says they reduced the debt to $724 million - and it's probably lower than that today. That's down $132 million from the start of 2013.  Nice work for a dehubbed airport.

 

https://cats.airports.faa.gov/Reports/rpt127.cfm

 

This is good news but the debt burden is still way too high for such an out of date facility. So it's improving but isn't anywhere near a stable or good situation.

^i dunno man. I go to a ton of airports. Cleveland is nowhere near the top of the list of outdated. I find it a really pleasant experience and the renovations have certainly modernized it. It's not San Fran's new wing but it's far from the bleak picture you are painting.

 

Additionally, it looks like frontiers cleveland-Charlotte route was seasonal? Ends August 12th?  I used it and was a fan...didn't know it was seasonal unless they are secretly ditching it.  But every time I flew it the flight was full.

This is good news but the debt burden is still way too high for such an out of date facility. So it's improving but isn't anywhere near a stable or good situation.

 

I think it is stable. Their operating profit increased to $8 million (from $1 million) and they had a positive cash flow of about $55 million. If they get the debt down to the mid-600's, which looks very possible this year, I think they're in a good position to do something dramatic - nothing like a new terminal, that would be over a billion - but something customer-pleasing like a new customs facility.

^i dunno man. I go to a ton of airports. Cleveland is nowhere near the top of the list of outdated. I find it a really pleasant experience and the renovations have certainly modernized it. It's not San Fran's new wing but it's far from the bleak picture you are painting.

 

Additionally, it looks like frontiers cleveland-Charlotte route was seasonal? Ends August 12th?  I used it and was a fan...didn't know it was seasonal unless they are secretly ditching it.  But every time I flew it the flight was full.

 

I travel everywhere. Cleveland is nice because it's small but it's definitely near the bottom in terms of being a modern airport. Even places like LaGuardia are getting a multi-billion dollar facelift now.

 

The Customs facility is straight out of 1963 and is the worst facility to serve a top 40 US metro by far. It's tiny and dingy. The cost of operation at CLE plus the conditions of the Customs facility are keeping airlines away. Strong rumor that Pittsburgh will pick up Aer Lingus to Dublin next summer. That would be Euro destination number #4. Meanwhile in Cleveland......

The Customs facility is straight out of 1963 and is the worst facility to serve a top 40 US metro by far. It's tiny and dingy. The cost of operation at CLE plus the conditions of the Customs facility are keeping airlines away. Strong rumor that Pittsburgh will pick up Aer Lingus to Dublin next summer. That would be Euro destination number #4. Meanwhile in Cleveland......

 

A new federal inspection facility is definitely needed and I'm pretty sure it could be done for substantially less than the $30+ million that was proposed a few years ago.  I hope the falling debt burden at CLE will allow something soon.

^again I'm not saying it's San Fran, but it's fine. It's not outdated. I mean have you been to Nashville or Orlando lately? The carpet? My god. Disgusting. It looks like nobody has touched those airports in 30 years

Frontier Airlines adds Cleveland-to-Miami service starting in October

http://www.cleveland.com/travel/index.ssf/2017/07/frontier_airlines_adds_clevela.html

 

This is interesting to me. American is dirt cheap to miamiand can't even sell out its commuter jets on that route. I'm sure Frontier knows what they r doing, but they just ended a seasonal charlotte flight which was packed every time I was on it and definitely needed.  Interesting to see how the Miami flight does.

They also cancelled Philadelphia last year. Frontier seems to be experimenting with their new routes, so we'll see how the new service goes.

Welcome Groyd!

Welcome Groyd!

 

 

 

Passenger traffic at Cleveland Hopkins is up nearly 6 percent over 2016

http://www.cleveland.com/travel/index.ssf/2017/07/passenger_traffic_at_cleveland.html#incart_river_home

Well, if the 6% increase holds until the end of the year, that would be about 8.9–8.95 million, or around 500,000 more passengers than in 2016. This is just a rough estimate, as there will probably be a slight decline in traffic as summer ends which will pick back up again during the holiday season—but this airport is bouncing back fast!

Looks like Southwest is adding Saturday only service to Orlando starting in the spring. Lots of carriers on this route.

Looks like Southwest is adding Saturday only service to Orlando starting in the spring. Lots of carriers on this route.

 

:/ more florida routes? geesh

Looks like Southwest is adding Saturday only service to Orlando starting in the spring. Lots of carriers on this route.

 

:/ more florida routes? geesh

 

It's probably only going to be for Spring Break. Won't know if it gets extended until the next SW update closer to Labor Day.

Southwest also adding second daily flight to Phoenix during the Break along with a third daily flight on Saturday.

 

Will be interesting to see how this works with the Milwaukee adds. One of the Milwaukee flights continues to Phoenix as well.

 

Lots of capacity to Arizona all of a sudden.

First 787 at Hopkins, courtesy of a weather delay at IAD.

 

Southwest also adding second daily flight to Phoenix during the Break along with a third daily flight on Saturday.

 

Will be interesting to see how this works with the Milwaukee adds. One of the Milwaukee flights continues to Phoenix as well.

 

Lots of capacity to Arizona all of a sudden.

 

During spring break only? This is Indians traffic

First 787 at Hopkins, courtesy of a weather delay at IAD.

 

 

Kind of weird the CLE IG account was ogling over this plane.  Wish they would just go out and get us some route that had them

It looks like Cleveland and Cincinnati are going to become connection cities for Frontier in the near future:

 

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-08-02/fearless-frontier-picks-a-fare-fight-with-airline-giants

 

From the article:

 

In the coming months, Frontier plans to offer connections in more than a half-dozen cities, including Austin, Cincinnati, Cleveland, and Orlando, spokesman Richard Oliver said.

It looks like Cleveland and Cincinnati are going to become connection cities for Frontier in the near future:

 

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-08-02/fearless-frontier-picks-a-fare-fight-with-airline-giants

 

From the article:

 

In the coming months, Frontier plans to offer connections in more than a half-dozen cities, including Austin, Cincinnati, Cleveland, and Orlando, spokesman Richard Oliver said.

 

What's a connection city?  A mini hub?

What's a connection city?  A mini hub?

 

I would say so, but a very "mini" hub.  I don't expect a huge amount of traffic routed through here.  It would have to be traffic that shouldn't/can't connect through Denver and has a final destination served by CLE and not their local airport.  They probably could route a fair amount of MCO traffic through CLE since they have daily flights there.  The path to Florida goes through Cleveland!

The path to Florida goes through Cleveland!

 

And thus, air routes mimic population loss..... :wink: :evil:

If you wanna fly to Florida...you'll have to fly through Cleveland first.  :evil:    Interesting...

I'm guessing they'll add a few flights while increasing service to some pre-existing routes. Oklahoma City was a new destination for Frontier mentioned in the article; do you think that CLE-OKC could happen? Cleveland has no nonstop to that Oklahoma-Kansas-Nebraska area as of now.

^ Frontier can create connections by carefully scheduling the flights they have now. Philadelphia-Cleveland-Portland on the ground at the same time as Orlando-Cleveland-Seattle. Voila! Connections. Since they operate at about a 90% load factor out of CLE now, they're just trying for that last 10%.

 

Now we see why Frontier wanted (and got) three gates when American moved out of Concourse A.

We'll see how large Frontier gets at Hopkins with these connection flights. I'm curious to see how they utilize their aircraft staring next spring when their big expansion is coming. The math doesn't work unless a lot of the new flights are going be around 3x weekly as opposed to daily.

 

Also, as mentioned earlier in this thread, KC is a big hole in CLE's route map. Would like to see some carrier start that route, even if it's a non-daily Frontier flight supported by East Coast/Florida connections.

 

The good thing about all this is that it's more momentum for Hopkins. Should keep passenger levels growing for the foreseeable future. If the count keeps growing it's going to be hard for international carriers to ignore Cleveland

 

On that note, Nashville just landed British Airways. Cleveland has an "IKEA hole" of international service. I hope the new director is focused on getting something, anything to Hopkins.

Also, as mentioned earlier in this thread, KC is a big hole in CLE's route map. Would like to see some carrier start that route, even if it's a non-daily Frontier flight supported by East Coast/Florida connections.

 

Southwest is the logical carrier for Kansas City since they operate a "hub" there of about 100 flights a day. SouthWest at the moment is beating up on Kansas City and holding off on expansion because they want a new terminal. Once KC agrees to terms, maybe CLE will see a flight or two.

Also, as mentioned earlier in this thread, KC is a big hole in CLE's route map. Would like to see some carrier start that route, even if it's a non-daily Frontier flight supported by East Coast/Florida connections.

 

Southwest is the logical carrier for Kansas City since they operate a "hub" there of about 100 flights a day. SouthWest at the moment is beating up on Kansas City and holding off on expansion because they want a new terminal. Once KC agrees to terms, maybe CLE will see a flight or two.

 

I agree on Southwest but I'm not holding my breath. We'll see.

Has there been any new developments with JetBlue? Last Fall I spoke with a friend in NY that works for the company in a fairly significant capacity and said that they had heard expansion in Cleveland was in the cards

Has there been any new developments with JetBlue? Last Fall I spoke with a friend in NY that works for the company in a fairly significant capacity and said that they had heard expansion in Cleveland was in the cards

 

I always look at airlines actions first. Frontier and recently Southwest have shown a commitment to expand CLE. Those are the two I'm betting on now.

 

JetBlue has been very slow to grow despite all their talk when they first arrived.

Nashville snags a BA route to LHR

 

http://www.wsmv.com/story/36086902/nashville-airport-to-provide-direct-flights-to-london-in-may-2018

Nashville snags a BA route to LHR

 

http://www.wsmv.com/story/36086902/nashville-airport-to-provide-direct-flights-to-london-in-may-2018

 

Like in Cincinnati, Cleveland is going to be chasing international routes until passenger counts are higher. Cleveland stands at 8.5 million passengers for 2016. Cincinnati was 7.3 million passengers for 2016. Nashville was 12.9 million for 2016. For either city to be taken seriously on an international route without major subsidies given either city needs to be above 10 million plus passengers a year.

^Where do you get this 10M number? Is that an industry standard, like 12k residents for a grocery store?

 

^Where do you get this 10M number? Is that an industry standard, like 12k residents for a grocery store?

 

It is an industry number that international carriers look for to determine if there is enough revenue out of a city. If your airport can hit the 10 million mark in a year and hold or continue to gain passengers then you will see airlines start knocking.

 

Even though Austin and New Orleans are more vacation destinations, they didn't get international service til they surpassed the 10 million mark. New Orleans surpassed 10 million in 2015 and Austin did in 2013. Both have multiple international carriers now.

 

It probably means nothing, but on WOW air's website, Cleveland shows up as a destination along with select other cities under "Fly further with WOW Air and Kiwi.com"... it's interesting at the least.

 

 

It probably means nothing, but on WOW air's website, Cleveland shows up as a destination along with select other cities under "Fly further with WOW Air and Kiwi.com"... it's interesting at the least.

 

 

 

I don't think WOW! flies to any of those places. Looks like it's a "Kiwi.com" list.  :-D

^Where do you get this 10M number? Is that an industry standard, like 12k residents for a grocery store?

 

It is an industry number that international carriers look for to determine if there is enough revenue out of a city. If your airport can hit the 10 million mark in a year and hold or continue to gain passengers then you will see airlines start knocking.

 

Even though Austin and New Orleans are more vacation destinations, they didn't get international service til they surpassed the 10 million mark. New Orleans surpassed 10 million in 2015 and Austin did in 2013. Both have multiple international carriers now.

 

 

That's not entirely true.  See Pittsburgh's airport as a prime example of international service with a passenger count below 10 million.

Nashville snags a BA route to LHR

 

http://www.wsmv.com/story/36086902/nashville-airport-to-provide-direct-flights-to-london-in-may-2018

 

Like in Cincinnati, Cleveland is going to be chasing international routes until passenger counts are higher. Cleveland stands at 8.5 million passengers for 2016. Cincinnati was 7.3 million passengers for 2016. Nashville was 12.9 million for 2016. For either city to be taken seriously on an international route without major subsidies given either city needs to be above 10 million plus passengers a year.

 

Nashville is a mini-"hub" for Southwest. St. Louis is a bigger "hub" and has closer to 14 million pax and yet nada with the Euro service.

 

That being said, the list of US non-Euro linked larger markets is shrinking east of the Mississippi.

 

I believe it's Cleveland, St. Louis, Milwaukee, Buffalo, Kansas City, Memphis, Indy and Columbus. San Antonio if you don't count Austin. Even Providence and Hartford have non-stops to Europe. Cleveland is moving into embarrassing territory.

I believe it's Cleveland, St. Louis, Milwaukee, Buffalo, Kansas City, Memphis, Indy and Columbus.

 

And Cleveland is the largest market of all of these. So much for the new director bringing in competent air service development people.....

I believe it's Cleveland, St. Louis, Milwaukee, Buffalo, Kansas City, Memphis, Indy and Columbus.

 

And Cleveland is the largest market of all of these. So much for the new director bringing in competent air service development people.....

 

Give him some time.  Cleveland Hopkins is definitely heading in the right direction.

I believe it's Cleveland, St. Louis, Milwaukee, Buffalo, Kansas City, Memphis, Indy and Columbus.

 

And Cleveland is the largest market of all of these. So much for the new director bringing in competent air service development people.....

 

Give him some time.  Cleveland Hopkins is definitely heading in the right direction.

 

Norwegian has mentioned Buffalo, Memphis and Pittsburgh (again)! Air Lingus has mentioned Pittsburgh (again)! Emirates has talked about Buffalo. BA has talked to Columbus and St. Louis. Meanwhile I never hear any airline outside of the US ever, and I mean ever, talk about Cleveland. It's like it doesn't exist. He's been in the office for a decent while now and Cleveland may be the odd man out on that short list. The "IKEA hole" is growing.

 

The airport is run through the city. To be honest, I don't think the city really cares about international air service. As long as it's making money or paying off the giant debt the status quo is OK.

I believe it's Cleveland, St. Louis, Milwaukee, Buffalo, Kansas City, Memphis, Indy and Columbus.

 

And Cleveland is the largest market of all of these. So much for the new director bringing in competent air service development people.....

 

Give him some time.  Cleveland Hopkins is definitely heading in the right direction.

 

The "IKEA hole" is growing.

You know what else is growing?

 

Hopkins passenger count and non stop flight destinations.

I believe it's Cleveland, St. Louis, Milwaukee, Buffalo, Kansas City, Memphis, Indy and Columbus.

 

And Cleveland is the largest market of all of these. So much for the new director bringing in competent air service development people.....

 

Give him some time.  Cleveland Hopkins is definitely heading in the right direction.

 

Norwegian has mentioned Buffalo, Memphis and Pittsburgh (again)! Air Lingus has mentioned Pittsburgh (again)! Emirates has talked about Buffalo. BA has talked to Columbus and St. Louis. Meanwhile I never hear any airline outside of the US ever, and I mean ever, talk about Cleveland. It's like it doesn't exist. He's been in the office for a decent while now and Cleveland may be the odd man out on that short list. The "IKEA hole" is growing.

 

Robert Kennedy (head of Port Control) still has the same air service guy that Ricky Smith had who has consistently failed to land any TATL service after CO pulled CDG and London.  Even when UA finally announced they were closing the hub---which he had years of advance notice to get something in the works--he had nothing. Jackson will probably win the election. But if he doesn't, the new director will also be out unless he can quickly prove he's capable and the best way to demonstrate that is bringing in daily non-stop service to Europe.

I believe it's Cleveland, St. Louis, Milwaukee, Buffalo, Kansas City, Memphis, Indy and Columbus.

 

And Cleveland is the largest market of all of these. So much for the new director bringing in competent air service development people.....

 

Give him some time.  Cleveland Hopkins is definitely heading in the right direction.

 

The "IKEA hole" is growing.

You know what else is growing?

 

Hopkins passenger count and non stop flight destinations.

 

Hopkins is growing but let's not forget that Cleveland used to serve 14 million pax and had non-stops to London and Paris. Not many more places Hopkins can route to within the US now that will keep boosting the passenger count. This isn't "Cleveland against the World", this is looking embarrassing amongst peer cities.

 

How many international airlines can Pittsburgh serve before Cleveland gets one?

I believe it's Cleveland, St. Louis, Milwaukee, Buffalo, Kansas City, Memphis, Indy and Columbus.

 

And Cleveland is the largest market of all of these. So much for the new director bringing in competent air service development people.....

 

Give him some time.  Cleveland Hopkins is definitely heading in the right direction.

 

The "IKEA hole" is growing.

You know what else is growing?

 

Hopkins passenger count and non stop flight destinations.

 

Hopkins is growing but let's not forget that Cleveland used to serve 14 million pax and had non-stops to London and Paris. Not many more places Hopkins can route to within the US now that will keep boosting the passenger count. This isn't "Cleveland against the World", this is looking embarrassing amongst peer cities.

 

Business demand and tourism are the main boosters of Cleveland's passenger count.  The numbers are only going to increase as 2017 is already proving.  I'm not sure what living in the past is going to do for you.  Cleveland's a different market than it once was. 

 

How much is Pittsburgh paying for those international flights?  I'd rather the market decide what is sustainable, not the government.

Cleveland's a different market than it once was. 

 

Yeah, in the past, Hopkins actually had non-stop service to Europe.

^to TWO cities by a major carrier.

Cleveland's a different market than it once was. 

 

Yeah, in the past Hopkins had non-stop service to Europe.

 

Cool story. 

^to TWO cities by a major carrier.

 

At what cost?