On 2/28/2020 at 11:50 AM, savadams13 said:

Flew into D a couple times when i would use Continental out of CVG. Reminded me alot of Concourse C at CVG that has since been demolished. Its weird how United has dug their heels into CLE. Delta kept CVG as a focus city, didnt strip as many flights as United but gave up A and C gates and half of B to allow the airport to bring in other airlines. I get the business move by United to keep competition out but seems like they are throwing money down a hole. Delta did the exact opposite and are not complaining or losing passenger counts. 

I never liked the setup of Concourse D having to walk through C and then underground to get to D. It would have been nice if they had a train like ATL connecting the concourses. It just seemed a poor setup from the start and not overly functional in the event Continental ever pulled out.

 

The thing about Cleveland's airport, and it has been about 15 years since I last flew in there is that it always seemed just pieced together without much of a master plan. I think the Terminals seemed fine but the concourses did not function well together. They were not connected well, they were old and did not seem like it could be better reconfigured to a modern airport like say Ohare or Hartsfield of DFW. It almost would be better if they could to start over from scratch on the other end of the airfield, kind of like what they have done in Indy. 

Edited March 1, 20205 yr by Brutus_buckeye

7 hours ago, eyehrtfood said:

Columbus gets 2nd airline and 3rd daily route this Summer non-stop to Seattle - while CLE continues with limited, seasonal service? I went to SEA last week from CLE for one of my 4 or 5 annual visits (for last 20 years....) - and each direction took  8-10 hours with connection. This just isn't ok for CLE. What will it take for CLE to get year-round service to Seattle on Delta or Alaska?

 

Delta adds 2 Seattle routes, including to American’s Dallas/Fort Worth hub

 

ThePointsGuy.com

Edward Russell

Yesterday

 

 

"Atlanta-based Delta will add flights between Seattle (SEA) and both Columbus, Ohio (CMH) and Dallas/Fort Worth (DFW) on June 8, according to Cirium schedules. Both routes will be flown with Airbus A220-100 jets."

 

 

https://thepointsguy-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/thepointsguy.com/news/delta-adds-seattle-routes-dallas-fort-worth/amp/?amp_js_v=a3&amp_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQCKAE%3D#aoh=15830913931737&amp_ct=1583091406200&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&amp_tf=From %1%24s&ampshare=https%3A%2F%2Fthepointsguy.com%2Fnews%2Fdelta-adds-seattle-routes-dallas-fort-worth%2F

 

This is a lot of capacity for this route, even for the summer.  They have decent load factors so far... on one daily flight.  Once they triple the capacity, I'm not sure it will be sustainable.  Delta is stronger in CMH than American is, and with Alaska and American renewing ties, I wonder if Alaska would consider shifting some of that capacity up north if Delta intrudes enough on their bottom line with this.

Doesn't Amazon have a large presence in Columbus?  I wonder if that might be a factor?. 

I wouldn't mind seeing all flights to/from SEA grounded. SEA is the US epicenter of the coronavirus.

17 minutes ago, skiwest said:

Doesn't Amazon have a large presence in Columbus?  I wonder if that might be a factor?. 

 

Yea, I think they have 3 or 4 fulfillment centers here. I'm not sure that alone is the driver for having two daily (three daily during the summer) flights from CMH to SEA. I think part of it is that Delta sees some available demand for flights to the West coast from CMH. 

 

If you look at the service frequency to the West coast from CMH and CLE, you can see that CLE is served a decent amount better than CMH to the West coast. CLE has 2 daily flights to SFO while CMH has one daily which didn't fly from January 1st through March 5th. CLE has a daily flight to SLC while CMH has a daily that didn't fly January 1st through March 13th. CLE currently has 2-3 daily flights to LAX while CMH only has 1-2, although I believe that will increase to 2-3 fairly soon. 

 

Additionally, Tokyo is one of the top international destinations from CMH due to the fairly large automotive industry presence in Columbus. Adding a flight to SEA likely provides another link to Tokyo from CMH. 

I believe Columbus also has an Amazon data center.

6 minutes ago, skiwest said:

I believe Columbus also has an Amazon data center.

 

Correct. I think they have one in New Albany and Hilliard and I think they are building one in Dublin. I don't believe the data centers employ many people so I'm not sure how many travel they generate. 

Re: SEA-CMH, I believe this is a power play by Delta.  They probably see the demand and have a nice base in Columbus.  With their SEA hub, they are probably asking themselves why they are letting Alaska get all of those eats filled.

The difference between visionary leadership and not...

 

"The two cities (Dallas and Fort Worth) had little use for each other until Texas Instruments’ former leader and Dallas Mayor Erik Jonsson convinced them to go together to build a giant airport midway between the two cities, intended to replace the two older airports that each city maintained.  DFW airport opened in 1973, and American Airlines moved their headquarters from New York City a few years later."

 

The rest is history and a tale of two cities....

 

Unlike DFW, CMH and CVG, CLE is city owned and operated.

Edited March 2, 20205 yr by Frmr CLEder

38 minutes ago, Frmr CLEder said:

The difference between visionary leadership and not...

 

"The two cities (Dallas and Fort Worth) had little use for each other until Texas Instruments’ former leader and Dallas Mayor Erik Jonsson convinced them to go together to build a giant airport midway between the two cities, intended to replace the two older airports that each city maintained.  DFW airport opened in 1973, and American Airlines moved their headquarters from New York City a few years later."

 

The rest is history and a tale of two cities....

 

Unlike DFW, CMH and CVG, CLE is city owned and operated.

 

2 hours ago, BelievelandD1 said:

Re: SEA-CMH, I believe this is a power play by Delta.  They probably the demand and have a nice base in Columbus.  With their SEA hub, they are probably asking themselves why they are letting Alaska get all of those seats filled.

I checked nonstop airfare from CMH to SEA for a few select dates in July and saw Delta for as low as $217 R/T vs. $310 R/T on Alaska.  So yes, it looks like Delta may be trying to drive out Alaska. Nonstop fare from CLE to SEA for same dates is $280 R/T on Frontier.

41 minutes ago, skiwest said:

I checked nonstop airfare from CMH to SEA for a few select dates in July and saw Delta for as low as $217 R/T vs. $310 R/T on Alaska.  So yes, it looks like Delta may be trying to drive out Alaska. Nonstop fare from CLE to SEA for same dates is $280 R/T on Frontier.

 

It really seems to depend on the date. I just randomly selected June 21st and Alaska is offering two flights from CMH for $199 while Delta is offering one for $276. If you look at June 23rd, Alaska is at $153 and $173 while Delta is at $246. Hopefully having the two carriers serving SEA will help drive the price down for us. 

 

I did notice that Alaska seems to be switching to their 178 seat 737-900s this summer for their two daily flights. Currently, they've been using ~120 seat A319s and ~150 seat A320s. So not only are they increasing frequency, they are using larger aircraft. 

And Cincinnati also has daily nonstops to Seattle via Delta.    I'm glad that Frontier is serving CLE but I wonder if the full service airlines are reluctant to compete with them on the same routes?

37 minutes ago, skiwest said:

And Cincinnati also has daily nonstops to Seattle via Delta.    I'm glad that Frontier is serving CLE but I wonder if the full service airlines are reluctant to compete with them on the same routes?

 

 

The full service airlines shouldnt be reluctant, every time Frontier has tried competing routes with the big boys, they have ultimately had to bow out (Charlotte, Minny, Philly, Miami, SF)...so Seattle shouldnt be any different.  Frontier and Spirit are just not geared to go from CLE to major business markets.  They are like Allegiant, get families and people to vacation on the cheap.  

 

Why there is no Seattle-CLE is the giant mystery.  Delta has been pretty aggressive here, not sure why they arent making this one happen

I always assumed that the frequent CVG-SEA flights were sustained by business travel between GE Aviation in Cincinnati and Boeing in Seattle.

50 minutes ago, taestell said:

I always assumed that the frequent CVG-SEA flights were sustained by business travel between GE Aviation in Cincinnati and Boeing in Seattle.

 

Well and now with Prime Air opening at CVG the route is seeing more Amazon employee traffic between the two cities. The AC will be upgraded to A321 due to capacity numbers on route.  

CVG is announcing service to Seattle via Alaska today. Even with Delta adding larger aircraft Alaska is going after the route as well...

So both Columbus and Cincinnati will have 3 daily nonstops to Seattle?    

14 minutes ago, skiwest said:

So both Columbus and Cincinnati will have 3 daily nonstops to Seattle?    

Both will officially have (2) daily flights to Seattle total of (4) nonstops daily. 

4 hours ago, skiwest said:

So both Columbus and Cincinnati will have 3 daily nonstops to Seattle?    

 

Columbus will have 3 daily during the summer. Alaska is starting a second daily seasonal flight this summer. 

It will be interesting to see the load factor on those flights.

26 minutes ago, skiwest said:

It will be interesting to see the load factor on those flights.

The delta flight is typically oversold, with them offering cash for Cincinnati folks to take a layover in Detroit or Atlanta. Same goes for the red-eye back to Cincinnati. I think the different time schedule Alaska is offering will be attractive to alot of folks. 

FYI I flew out of CLE yesterday and 100% of on-property garages and lots are sold out.   Spring break time must be starting.  

1 hour ago, Cleburger said:

FYI I flew out of CLE yesterday and 100% of on-property garages and lots are sold out.   Spring break time must be starting.  

 

That's interesting--everyone I've talked to (none of which are students) are canceling or holding off on all air travel due to the coronavirus.

Edited March 7, 20205 yr by Pugu

Passenger numbers at CLE surpassed 10 million last year and put CLE in the large airport category.  It is likely the number or passengers will drop below 10 million this year due to the coronavirus panic.  ?

I fly alot of transatlantic and my pax numbers are pretty healthy...people take reasonable precautions. I remember SARS or whatever it was called. Flying and riding public transport in NYC and other places means ive already been exposed

Cleveland Hopkins International Airport soon to break ground on expanded center for shuttle and limo service
 

https://www.cleveland.com/cityhall/2020/03/cleveland-hopkins-international-airport-soon-to-break-ground-on-expanded-center-for-shuttle-and-limo-service.html

 

“CLEVELAND, Ohio – Construction work to replace the much-maligned Ground Transportation Center for shuttle and limo services at Cleveland Hopkins International Airport will begin in the next several weeks.

 

“And the work is expected to be done before the busy Thanksgiving travel season, according to Cleveland’s airport chief, Robert Kennedy.”

...

”The new structure will be at the north end of the terminal where a temporary site has been in use for a year. It is just out the door from the baggage claim area on the terminal’s lower level.”

 

 

Another temporary patch in our blanket that is an airport....  The City has been doing this for 60 years, which results in this->

 

 

Looking forward to that master plan!  

Edited March 9, 20205 yr by Cleburger

On the CLE master plan website, I saw this: 

 

"CLE will be scheduling workshops in 2020 where the public will be encouraged to attend. These open format sessions will be an opportunity for gathering additional information and communicating information relative to the Master Plan Study."

 

Last week, I sent an email asking when the first workshop will be scheduled, but I have not yet received a response.  

1 hour ago, skiwest said:

On the CLE master plan website, I saw this: 

 

"CLE will be scheduling workshops in 2020 where the public will be encouraged to attend. These open format sessions will be an opportunity for gathering additional information and communicating information relative to the Master Plan Study."

 

Last week, I sent an email asking when the first workshop will be scheduled, but I have not yet received a response.  

Can you please share if and when they reply?

Sure.

After 10 million passengers at CLE in 2019, the 2020 numbers are going to be much lower. Any guesses as to what the final numbers might be?

^ 9,763,631.5

Edited March 18, 20205 yr by roman totale XVII

Good one. We sure can use a little humor right now.

15 hours ago, skiwest said:

After 10 million passengers at CLE in 2019, the 2020 numbers are going to be much lower. Any guesses as to what the final numbers might be?

 

I personally cancelled 8 trips out of CLE in the next 4 weeks as we await to see when gatherings can happen again.   

I'm going to guess most airports will see a 10-15% decrease in passengers this year.

I flew back from Denver yesterday. Flight was only about 1/4 full.

5 minutes ago, skiwest said:

I flew back from Denver yesterday. Flight was only about 1/4 full.

 

Just curious, what percentage of passengers were wearing masks?

I only saw a couple passengers wearing masks.

2 hours ago, skiwest said:

I only saw a couple passengers wearing masks.

I was on DEN-CLE flight on Friday--same thing only a handful of masks on flight and in airport. 

Given the air quality inside planes, wearing a mask may always be a good idea

 

6 minutes ago, bjk said:

Given the air quality inside planes, wearing a mask may always be a good idea

 

 

Cabin air is recirculated in far greater frequency than most other gathering places. 

 

https://www.askthepilot.com/questionanswers/cabin-air-quality/

Looking for silver linings, (rather than opportunism)

I wonder if the economic packages the federal government is considering, especially for airlines, might include some money for airport construction projects, like Hopkins.

 

 

On 3/9/2020 at 9:37 AM, skiwest said:

On the CLE master plan website, I saw this: 

 

"CLE will be scheduling workshops in 2020 where the public will be encouraged to attend. These open format sessions will be an opportunity for gathering additional information and communicating information relative to the Master Plan Study."

 

Last week, I sent an email asking when the first workshop will be scheduled, but I have not yet received a response.  

 

On 3/9/2020 at 10:52 AM, Sapper Daddy said:

Can you please share if and when they reply?

Here is response:

 

Thanks for your message. At this moment we are on hold for any gatherings or pubic workshops. We are currently exploring options to host these in an online format. If we can, we would certainly prefer to hold these in a typical open-house format in the community. How things progress with COVID-19 will be a determining factor.

 

Please check out website periodically for updates. Feel free to send us an email if you have any other questions.

https://www.cleveland.com/business/2020/03/cleveland-hopkins-akron-canton-airports-report-dramatic-drop-off-in-traffic-passengers-take-precautions.html

"Cleveland Hopkins (CLE): 

At this time, for today [3/25]: there are 102 flight cancellations for Cleveland Hopkins: 52 flights to Cleveland and 50 Cleveland departures."

 

https://www.centerforcleveland.org/covid-19

 

Will certainly hurt CLE's upward trajectory of passengers, especially as the flights that are operating are mostly empty.

 

 

Edited March 26, 20205 yr by Pugu

I have a trip to CLE scheduled in four weeks. At this point I'll be kind of surprised if my flight isn't cancelled. Who knows what the situation will be like by then. 

3 hours ago, Pugu said:

"Cleveland Hopkins (CLE): 

At this time, for today [3/25]: there are 102 flight cancellations for Cleveland Hopkins: 52 flights to Cleveland and 50 Cleveland departures."

 

https://www.centerforcleveland.org/covid-19

 

Will certainly hurt CLE's upward trajectory of passengers, especially as the flights that are operating are mostly empty.

 

 

It's gonna hurt every airport though.. hopefully will pick up where it left off before this started...

 

I just had a flight into detroit on 3-11 before sh*t fully hit the fan.. when I walked thru the terminal, it was a ghost town

All on-site passenger parking now free at CLE for time being they announced. Crazy