36 minutes ago, Dougal said:

Most of the year there are four flights four days a week around that time. 2 Fedex to Memphis and Indianapolis and 2 UPS to Louisville and Philadelphia; three of them are normally wide-bodies. During the November/December holidays, things get busier. I heard that Cleveland Heart Lab (which unfortunately sold out to Quest Diagnostics) is single-handedly responsible for one plane-worth of cargo every day.

Thanks for the insight! I'll keep my eye out for the others (are they usually night flights too?). And wow about the lab, I'll have to look into that more, super interested in what they're shipping. 

 

One of these days I'd like to do some plane watching at one of the hubs, it's got to be gangbusters out there. 

3 hours ago, Dougal said:

Most of the year there are four flights four days a week around that time. 2 Fedex to Memphis and Indianapolis and 2 UPS to Louisville and Philadelphia; three of them are normally wide-bodies. During the November/December holidays, things get busier. I heard that Cleveland Heart Lab (which unfortunately sold out to Quest Diagnostics) is single-handedly responsible for one plane-worth of cargo every day.

 

I enjoyed seeing the Western Global MD-10 chartered in by UPS daily over Christmas.   Seeing the big widebody tri-jet took me back to plane watching at KCLE when I was younger.  

On 12/10/2020 at 11:00 AM, skiwest said:

I thought there would be another master plan workshop this month, but I don't see anything scheduled yet.  With the holidays coming, it looks like it will not occur until early next year.

Still nothing scheduled.   😦

Freight seems to be booming at CLE; 5 UPS departures and 4 Fedex departures in the last 24 hours.  This can't all be Christmas present returns, can it?

Transportation center from a week or so ago. 

Thought you all might enjoy the history. You can see how Cleveland, which had the best airport in the USA before WWII, fell behind quickly after WWII and certainly by the 1960s and later.

 

https://www.aviationcle.com/post/95-years-of-historic-firsts-at-cle?fbclid=IwAR2-AX0WE9KikheA4yANFkz3S6nYRbjVpkq079Y5d8MdYwS5XI0l96ytCAo

CLE airport released year-end data.  Passenger numbers were abysmal; down almost 60% for both the month of December and the whole year.  Cargo, however, was a much brighter story - up 10.14% for December and 0.8% for the year.  The annual number is a small gain (about 1.7 million pounds on 182 million total) but the beauty was that after a horrendous March and April, cargo grew every month on a year-over-year basis.

 

https://www.clevelandairport.com/about-us/facts-figures

5 hours ago, Dougal said:

CLE airport released year-end data.  Passenger numbers were abysmal; down almost 60% for both the month of December and the whole year.  Cargo, however, was a much brighter story - up 10.14% for December and 0.8% for the year.  The annual number is a small gain (about 1.7 million pounds on 182 million total) but the beauty was that after a horrendous March and April, cargo grew every month on a year-over-year basis.

 

https://www.clevelandairport.com/about-us/facts-figures

It has been great seeing the wide bodies back at CLE daily!  

There have been no updates on the master plan since the last workshop in mid-October.   I have a feeling it is now in a "holding pattern".   😟

 

Edited January 26, 20214 yr by skiwest

Here is the latest on CLE Master Plan:

 

https://clevelandairportmasterplan.com/documents/2021-01-12-cle-master-plan-working-committee-mtg-3.pdf

 

 

 

Edited January 29, 20214 yr by skiwest

2 hours ago, skiwest said:

Here is the latest on CLE Master Plan:

 

https://clevelandairportmasterplan.com/documents/2021-01-12-cle-master-plan-working-committee-mtg-3.pdf

 

 

 

 

Thanks!  Lots of great info in there.  They are narrowing down the options.  Summary - it looks like the preferred option is the full new build where the current terminal is. 

 

For the Terminal, they have eliminated "Family 6".  The focus is on Family 1 and Family 2, with Family 2 being the preferred.  (Middle one in this image that @NorthShore647 previously posted.)

 

 

Here's the more detailed image from the latest presentation.  I wasn't able to figure out the planned construction and demolition phasing from this doc.  It does appear they intend to temporarily use Concourse D during construction, and then later demo it.

 

 

 

 

 

Notes from presentation:

Preferred Family 2 over Family 1
» Conducted detail phasing evaluation of Family 1 and Family 2 through PAL 2
Family 2:
» Provides superior customer experience & potential for iconic Terminal Building image beyond PAL 2
» Results in a newer Terminal Building over the long-term
» Has lower construction cost through PAL 2
» Can be financed based upon assumptions developed in the financial model

»  Has lower maintenance/replacement costs
» Provides more opportunities for concessions improvements
» Provides more opportunities for future Terminal Building expansion
» Enables a more efficient gate layout
» Facilitates intuitive wayfinding

 

The preferred local access plan is also interesting - if I'm following correctly, this would force all airport access to the northeast corner and reroute 237.

 

 

There's also quite a bit of detail on cargo and other support infrastructure.  It's good to see progress.  I am really glad they are pushing for a full new build.

 

6 minutes ago, Boomerang_Brian said:

For the Terminal, they have eliminated "Family 6".  The focus is on Family 1 and Family 2, with Family 2 being the preferred. 

 

 I wasn't able to figure out the planned construction and demolition phasing from this doc.  It does appear they intend to temporarily use Concourse D during construction, and then later demo it.

 

The preferred local access plan is also interesting - if I'm following correctly, this would force all airport access to the northeast corner and reroute 237.

I figured Family 6 wouldn't make the cut.  I'm glad they are recommending Family 2.  That looks a lot better than Family 1 which was basically an expansion of the existing terminal and concourses.

 

I was also a bit confused about the construction/demo phase.  I assume it was explained when it was presented.  It would make sense to utilize the current D Concourse during the construction phase since most of the existing C Concourse will be unavailable during construction of the new C and D concourses.

 

Yes, it looks like they are recommending rerouting 237.  That seems to be a good idea as it would allow for better traffic flow for drivers entering and exiting the airport.

41 minutes ago, skiwest said:

I figured Family 6 wouldn't make the cut.  I'm glad they are recommending Family 2.  That looks a lot better than Family 1 which was basically an expansion of the existing terminal and concourses.

 

I was also a bit confused about the construction/demo phase.  I assume it was explained when it was presented.  It would make sense to utilize the current D Concourse during the construction phase since most of the existing C Concourse will be unavailable during construction of the new C and D concourses.

 

Yes, it looks like they are recommending rerouting 237.  That seems to be a good idea as it would allow for better traffic flow for drivers entering and exiting the airport.

 

I thought in looking at the numbered items on Family 2 that they would utilizing concourse D during construction (it read "1: Concourse D + Connector Tunnel Reactivation") so I took that as meaning that would be the first thing done just before deactivating and demolishing concourse B.  It just seems to me that they may have skipped a step in prepping Concourse D for accommodating larger aircraft?  I would assume that would be a somewhat costly endeavor though it wouldn't be necessary to be extravagant about it since it would be a temporary measure.

 

I am particularly excited by the thought of the rental car facility being brought back on site as well.  There's a lot to like, but it will be a long process.

Edited January 29, 20214 yr by plinth857

1 hour ago, Boomerang_Brian said:

 

Thanks!  Lots of great info in there.  They are narrowing down the options.  Summary - it looks like the preferred option is the full new build where the current terminal is. 

 

For the Terminal, they have eliminated "Family 6".  The focus is on Family 1 and Family 2, with Family 2 being the preferred.  (Middle one in this image that @NorthShore647 previously posted.)

 

 

Here's the more detailed image from the latest presentation.  I wasn't able to figure out the planned construction and demolition phasing from this doc.  It does appear they intend to temporarily use Concourse D during construction, and then later demo it.

 

 

 

 

 

Notes from presentation:

Preferred Family 2 over Family 1
» Conducted detail phasing evaluation of Family 1 and Family 2 through PAL 2
Family 2:
» Provides superior customer experience & potential for iconic Terminal Building image beyond PAL 2
» Results in a newer Terminal Building over the long-term
» Has lower construction cost through PAL 2
» Can be financed based upon assumptions developed in the financial model

»  Has lower maintenance/replacement costs
» Provides more opportunities for concessions improvements
» Provides more opportunities for future Terminal Building expansion
» Enables a more efficient gate layout
» Facilitates intuitive wayfinding

 

The preferred local access plan is also interesting - if I'm following correctly, this would force all airport access to the northeast corner and reroute 237.

 

 

There's also quite a bit of detail on cargo and other support infrastructure.  It's good to see progress.  I am really glad they are pushing for a full new build.

 

 

Argh last post on the page of a thread...

I also find the presentation a little difficult to understand. Are levels 1, 2 and 3 different phases of construction to get the facilities up to “PAL 2” level? I have to admit, the thought of only interior renovations for concourses A & C is disappointing.
 

I know this is a master plan, but I guess I was hoping for a more direct route to a new terminal instead of 20 years of improvements here and there.

Yes, it is a bit confusing. I assume level refers to the physical floor level and PAL x refers to the construction phase.  I don't understand interior renovation for the existing C concourse if it is going away. And slide 15 shows surface parking right next to D concourse, which I though was going to be temporarily re-opened.  Hopefully, they will schedule another  virtual workshop to present this to the public.

 

Edited January 30, 20214 yr by skiwest

34 minutes ago, skiwest said:

Yes, it is a bit confusing.  I assume level  refers to the physical floor level and PAL x refers to the construction phase.  I don't understand interior renovation for the existing C concourse if it is going away. And slide 15 shows surface parking right next to D concourse, which I though was going to be temporarily re-opened.  Hopefully, they will schedule another workshop to present this to the public.

 

 

PAL is for: Total Passengers Planning Activity Levels.  Each piece of infrastructure is evaluated by how many passengers it could handle. Target PAL are defined on slide 4. 

Yes, I saw that. But construction will be done in stages and the timing of the stages will be based on projected passenger levels.

 

Edited April 8, 20214 yr by skiwest

I dug around more to try and find a recording of the referenced January 12th meeting - I couldn't find anything.  I submitted a request for that info via the master plan web page that @KJP had previously posted:

 

https://clevelandairportmasterplan.com/

 

Airlines facing huge COVID-related cost increases at Cleveland Hopkins airport

Susan Glaser - Cleveland.com - Feb. 24, 2021

 

"The airlines funded 46% of the airport’s costs in 2019. In 2021, the airlines’ costs to operate in Cleveland will increase by $21 million and make up 66% of the airport’s revenue, according to city figures. ... In 2020, Hopkins’ cost per enplanement – that’s the average cost per passenger that an airline pays to operate at an airport – was projected to be $12. Instead, it was nearly $32, and is expected to be even higher in 2021. Other airports in Cleveland’s competitive set – Columbus, Pittsburgh, Cincinnati and others – also will see per-passenger costs increase, but are expected to top out at $10 to $15, according to Kennedy. 'We are damaging our competitiveness,' he said. 'This is what drives airlines elsewhere.' "

 

 

For some more information on the airports finances, you can watch the beginning of city council's Day 6 budget hearings (Feb. 23, 2021) which includes an update from the Department of Port Control with director Kennedy and CFO Gilmartin. 

 

Edited February 25, 20214 yr by NorthShore647

^ Man, I almost didn't recognize Polensek. Dude is getting up there.

 

Cleveland Hopkins readies proposal for new airport terminal

 

CLEVELAND, Ohio — The timing isn’t perfect – proposing a new airport terminal after a historic drop in air travel.

 

But Cleveland Hopkins International Airport officials are gearing up to unveil a plan for a nearly-new terminal to be constructed in phases in the years ahead.

 

The preferred terminal design – not yet finalized – is likely to include rebuilt, wider concourses; an expanded ticketing area; a relocated rental car facility; centralized Transportation Security Administration screening; a new, centrally-located Customs facility; redesigned entry roadways and more.

 

MORE

https://www.cleveland.com/business/2021/02/cleveland-hopkins-readies-proposal-for-new-airport-terminal.html

 

Tough timing... the result in the near term will be higher airfare and fewer flights available.  But I think the improvements are necessary for the next 50 years.  At a minimum they appear committed to fixing CLE's embarrassing Customs and Rental Car setups, which is a positive.  

It looks like the first phase will be tearing down B concourse and building a new one.  And it appears that customs will be moving to the new B.  They may be re-opening D concourse temporarily while the new B is being built.  Some modest additions to the terminal are also included in the first phase.  I probably won't be around to see the subsequent phases.  Hopefully, another workshop will be scheduled for the public to see the plan.

Relocated rental facility didn't that just happen within the past 20 years?  Well I hope Brook Park get's it where the Ford plant was, because it would be much easier to get literally everywhere if it were off of Snow Rd versus it's current location.

7 minutes ago, wpcc88 said:

Relocated rental facility didn't that just happen within the past 20 years?  Well I hope Brook Park get's it where the Ford plant was, because it would be much easier to get literally everywhere if it were off of Snow Rd versus it's current location.

 

Yes--the rental car operations moved about 20 years ago--and its completely fine. The airport proper should have some office bldgs and hotels---not giant parking lots for an already-functional rental car facility. This is just asinine to move it again. And why would you want Brook Park to get anything from the airport? They've been constantly fighting the airport for decades and hurting all of metro Cleveland in the process. They should be the last community to benefit from anything the airport does.

3 hours ago, Pugu said:

 

Yes--the rental car operations moved about 20 years ago--and its completely fine.

 

I would like to see the rental car operations on a rapid stop or light rail loop to parking.  Move all the parking away from the terminal.

To compete with other similar-sized airports, the rental car facility should be moved into the current short term parking ramp and a new ramp constructed where the old long term one was (current "orange" lot).    If there was money and political will for it, maybe a new airport hotel could sit atop this garage?   The Sheraton is awful tired.  

On 2/25/2021 at 12:04 PM, Pugu said:

 

Yes--the rental car operations moved about 20 years ago--and its completely fine. The airport proper should have some office bldgs and hotels---not giant parking lots for an already-functional rental car facility. This is just asinine to move it again. And why would you want Brook Park to get anything from the airport? They've been constantly fighting the airport for decades and hurting all of metro Cleveland in the process. They should be the last community to benefit from anything the airport does.

 

How so?  They asked for things in return when the airport essentially just said "give this to us."  I think both parties were in the wrong, but that's just my opinion.  And if it were on Snow Road it wouldn't make that entrance into the airport look like the rust belt wasteland that it does currently.  It might even spur the office buildings and hotels that you desire.

Busy morning at CLE.  UAE Royal Flight aircraft.

 

Photo by GeorgeM757 on Flickr

 

 

20 hours ago, Dougal said:

Busy morning at CLE.  UAE Royal Flight aircraft.

 

Photo by GeorgeM757 on Flickr

 

 

 

 

Nothing like a travel party of 350 for a gallbladder surgery... 😜

 

But it's great for the Cleveland economy so bring it!  

Cleveland Hopkins airport reports busiest weekend in more than a year

Susan Glaser - Cleveland.com - Mar. 24, 2021

 

"Cleveland Hopkins International Airport reported its busiest weekend in more than a year – and it’s likely to get busier as spring break traffic picks up. Even so, “busy” is relative. The 56,500 passengers who traveled through the airport last weekend, Friday through Sunday, is still 30% lower than the 81,000 passengers who traveled the weekend of March 6-8, 2020 – just before global travel came to a halt due to the coronavirus pandemic."

United adding seasonal flights from CLE.

 

https://www.cleveland.com/travel/2021/03/united-airlines-announces-new-flights-from-cleveland-hopkins-to-pensacola-portland-maine-3-cities-in-south-carolina.html

 

^this surprised me, but i love it. Maine and Hilton Head are two of the places i would fly to in the summer...direct access to both locations is huge.

 

 

1 hour ago, skiwest said:

United adding seasonal flights from CLE.

 

https://www.cleveland.com/travel/2021/03/united-airlines-announces-new-flights-from-cleveland-hopkins-to-pensacola-portland-maine-3-cities-in-south-carolina.html

 

This good news was also mentioned in the article:

Two important United routes that remain on hiatus: nonstop service from Cleveland to Los Angeles and San Francisco. Both are back in the schedule starting in early May.

10 minutes ago, Boomerang_Brian said:

This good news was also mentioned in the article:

Two important United routes that remain on hiatus: nonstop service from Cleveland to Los Angeles and San Francisco. Both are back in the schedule starting in early May.

 

Don't put too much confidence in the flight schedules a couple months out. United has perpetual shown a nonstop CMH-SFO route starting 3 months from the time I check (they are showing nonstop flights on this route in May right now), but it usually gets removed as you get closer to the date. Other airlines have been doing the same. I'm not saying these routes aren't brought back in May, hopefully they are, I'm just saying to be too confident. 

8 minutes ago, cbussoccer said:

 

Don't put too much confidence in the flight schedules a couple months out. United has perpetual shown a nonstop CMH-SFO route starting 3 months from the time I check (they are showing nonstop flights on this route in May right now), but it usually gets removed as you get closer to the date. Other airlines have been doing the same. I'm not saying these routes aren't brought back in May, hopefully they are, I'm just saying to be too confident. 

 

That's really disappointing because I got really excited for a moment--my inlaws are likely arriving from Bangalore into SanFran in May, and having a direct flight from SanFran to Clevleand would allow them to 2-hop from Bangalore to here, whereas their previous trips have all been four-hop: from Bangalore to somewhere else in India (Mumbai or Chennai, depending on whether they're going east or west), then either Paris/Dubai if coming west or somewhere else (I think Tokyo) coming east, then somewhere in the U.S. (Newark, Chicago, Detroit), then Cleveland.  Being able to do Bangalore -> SanFran -> Cleveland would be a real treat.

1 hour ago, BelievelandD1 said:

^this surprised me, but i love it. Maine and Hilton Head are two of the places i would fly to in the summer...direct access to both locations is huge.

 

 

 

Is Hilton Head a really "Cleveland" place to vacation, like Cincinnatians and Destin, Florida and Columbusites and Sarasota/Bradenton/Palmetto Florida? Or how people from Columbus go to Lake Cumberland but people from Cincinnati go to Dale Hollow. Or is it someplace(s) else?

6 minutes ago, GCrites80s said:

 

Is Hilton Head a really "Cleveland" place to vacation, like Cincinnatians and Destin, Florida and Columbusites and Sarasota/Bradenton/Palmetto Florida? Or how people from Columbus go to Lake Cumberland but people from Cincinnati go to Dale Hollow. Or is it someplace(s) else?

 

I know quite a few people in Cleveland/Akron with vacation homes or time shares at Hilton Head.  Probably the #1 golf location in the country, so there's that.  

1 hour ago, GCrites80s said:

 

Is Hilton Head a really "Cleveland" place to vacation, like Cincinnatians and Destin, Florida and Columbusites and Sarasota/Bradenton/Palmetto Florida? Or how people from Columbus go to Lake Cumberland but people from Cincinnati go to Dale Hollow. Or is it someplace(s) else?

i think it is.  Word of mouth and generations of families going there probably can be traced to different cities and regions.  Similar to why Cleveland has clambakes and Cincinnati does not.

1 hour ago, GCrites80s said:

 

Is Hilton Head a really "Cleveland" place to vacation, like Cincinnatians and Destin, Florida and Columbusites and Sarasota/Bradenton/Palmetto Florida? Or how people from Columbus go to Lake Cumberland but people from Cincinnati go to Dale Hollow. Or is it someplace(s) else?

 

I listened to a Kenny Chesney interview where he discussed writing "Anything But Mine" about his summers in HHI and OBX and encountering girls from Greater Cleveland there for the summer. When the song first came out, people assumed it was a reference to Cleveland, Tennessee - not far from where Chesney grew up. 

3 hours ago, GCrites80s said:

 

Is Hilton Head a really "Cleveland" place to vacation, like Cincinnatians and Destin, Florida and Columbusites and Sarasota/Bradenton/Palmetto Florida? Or how people from Columbus go to Lake Cumberland but people from Cincinnati go to Dale Hollow. Or is it someplace(s) else?

 

Re Cleveland, yes, I've heard of lots of people from here going to to Hilton Head over the years. Never heard of anyone going to "Lake Cumberland" or "Dale Hollow" and in fact, never even heard of these places--I had to google them.

 

I find this interesting.  So the common 'vacation places' of people from different Ohio cities are as follows, and they are all very different:

 

Ohio City    - Non-Florida Destination  -- Florida Destination

 

Cleveland -  Hilton Head, SC   --   Ft. Myers, FL (anywhere else? Ft. Lauderdale?/Miami?-we have more flights to RSW than MIA)

Columbus -   Lake Cumberland, KY  --  Sarasota/Bradenton/Palmetto, FL 

Cinci - Dale Hollow TN    --  Destin, FL

 

 

Also Naples FL for both Columbus and Cincinnati.

I have no idea how reliable this source is,  but this blog is claiming that United is planning a direct flight to London from Cleveland: https://crankyflier.com/2021/04/01/united-announces-sweeping-changes-to-europe-will-open-london-heathrow-hub/

 

can anyone corroborate??

2 minutes ago, southsider said:

I have no idea how reliable this source is,  but this blog is claiming that United is planning a direct flight to London from Cleveland: https://crankyflier.com/2021/04/01/united-announces-sweeping-changes-to-europe-will-open-london-heathrow-hub/

 

can anyone corroborate??

That post is tagged “April Fool’s”, so probably not very reliable haha.

Totally missed that.  Thanks!

Frontier Airlines adding new nonstop flights between Cleveland Hopkins and Atlanta

Susan Glaser - Cleveland.com - Apr. 6, 2021

 

"The route will run four times per week – Monday, Wednesday, Friday and Saturday – starting June 11."

^Thanks, Frontier, but there are already 3 other airlines flying that route from CLE.  How about adding flights to cities that do not currently have nonstop service from CLE?

United has posted what are being called firm CLE summer schedules.  With once-a-day service to Los Angeles and San Fran back in June, they will be just two flights away from their pre-Covid departure numbers.

A reliable source has informed me that the final public workshop for the master plan will be on May 19th at 6:00 PM.

Registration is now open for the next virtual public information meeting on May 19th.   Here is the link:

 

https://clevelandairportmasterplan.com/workshops.php