Jump to content

Cincinnati: West End: The Gateway Park District (Union Terminal)

Featured Replies

It may come down to the fact that while the Arcade in Dayton is indeed and important and beautiful it may lack the deserved attention due to the fact that Dayton will always be Cincy's little brother. Cincinnati is known for its architeture and there is a lot of civic and community pride in it...those buildings have defined the city. When the lay man thinks of Dayton...well, I don't know really what comes to mind....I-75 and constant road construction? I'm not trying to slam on Dayton but I'm just saying Cincy may get more attention and money b/c it is Cincy and more well known.

 

Which shouldn't negate the fact that the Arcade is still as important architecturally and of significance as Union Terminal's surroundings.

"You don't just walk into a bar and mix it up by calling a girl fat" - buildingcincinnati speaking about new forumers

  • Replies 109
  • Views 8.7k
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

You may be right.

"You don't just walk into a bar and mix it up by calling a girl fat" - buildingcincinnati speaking about new forumers

Spoke with my grandmother about UT and Lincoln Park back in the day.  My grandfather used to work at UT for over twenty years.   She claims she has pics of the park and of the West End in the 40's and 50's.   I have to get down to Cumberland and see what kind of surprises she may have.

Rando, you've got a new building right on top of the Cincinnati Job Corp building / old nunnery on the corner of Kenner and Western.  If you take a look at it I don't think you're going to want to have that coming down.

I'm not sure if anybody said anything about it in an earlier post, (sorry I'm lazy) but I remember seeing a cool conceptual drawing of Union terminal with buildings on both sides done by a local artist.  I remember seeing it at Final Friday Pendleton arts center 3rd floor?? and to the left. It has been on the wall for several years..

Rando, you've got a new building right on top of the Cincinnati Job Corp building / old nunnery on the corner of Kenner and Western.  If you take a look at it I don't think you're going to want to have that coming down.

 

That idea was conceptual only, so something like that beautiful building would definitely be incorporated into the final design/proposal.

  • 6 months later...

Cincinnati Museum Center to exhibit new look

Master plan could bring park, offices

BY DAN MONK | CINCINNATI BUSINESS COURIER

February 22, 2008

 

WEST END - The Cincinnati Museum Center plans to spend $120 million to renovate the complex at Union Terminal, the first phase in a long-term strategy that could bring a 14-acre park and new commercial development to its 130-acre campus. According to an application for state capital grants, plans for the rehab include long-overdue repairs of flat roofs and windows at the 75-year-old Union Terminal, along with new air-handling and chiller systems and restoration work on the fountains in front of the historic Art Deco structure.

It strikes me that any development there has to be connected to the streetcar line even if it takes a few years to get the line active. In fact, the city might want think about encouraging certain basin developments to take the possibility of being a part of the streetcar system into account as they plan their developments.

I was just thinking about this idea yesterday.  I hope this becomes reality.

There's no glory in maintenance, but the whole project does sound interesting. The new buildings I'm sure will cause a stir. They will probably fall under the faux-historic category.

  • 3 weeks later...

Not to be a stick in the proverbial mud, (and I have admittedly not seen the renderings) but I'm very concerned about the placement of the new garages and mixed use buildings. Despite being almost always half empty on a good day for the museum (like when I was there during the "Bodies" exhibit on a weekend), these parking areas provide a tremendous vista to Union Terminal. The building was meant to be viewed as one grand composition with its arms outstretched, pumping people in and out through the arteries of the city. I think if this development is to be done right, it's got to respect that view of the terminal, and have any new buildings (regardless of whether they are 2 or twenty stories tall) off to the extreme periphery of the current site. Recreating Lincoln Park over the parking lots would be a perfect way to preserve the design intent of the original plan.

 

I also think, that if the city were to run a streetcar line to the area, it would have to be somehow incorporated into a line stretching farther west, actually reaching the majority of the west side. The comment posted earlier about using the defunct stairs as as stop and running the line through the tunnel was a great one!

I think that after the banks and then broadway commons this site has the most potential for a new development. While i do agree they need to tread lightly with their design so they do not detract from the terminal, I also feel that those enormous parking lots look like two black eyes on possibly the most beautiful building in the city.

Let's hope it doesn't look like this someday!  lol

 

HallofJustice.jpg?t=1205331943

Did the levy fail? What about the zoo levy?

Zoo passed, museum center  passed a few years ago. 

  • 2 weeks later...

I would love to see some high rises go up near UT.  Well, not huge bulking buildings, but has anyone sat on the hill at Cincinnati Bible College lately? You get a fantastic view of the city from Price Hill...we also see just how huge downtwon could be.  We're talking Chicago size. 

I haven't been to the Westside in years.

^That is interesting because it is Westsiders who are most often criticized for not venturing to other parts of the city.  However, I know of very few people (from anywhere in this region) who have gone to the Westside and not lived there.

 

I know there is nothing to really draw anyone over there (sans Western Bowl), but still...the same could be said for the far Eastside neighborhoods.

Leave it to Randy to make this thread a "East/West" thing.  :wink:

Ya know, not many people actually realize the potential downtown has.  Think about this...1) The full streetcar system running, 2) The Banks built, 3) Broadway Commons filled up with something cool, OTR completely redone, 4) Union Terminal with proposed brand new neighborhood and commuter rails running, 5) Commuter rails connecting East and West Side 5) Ovation built....I......I.....makes you wonder.  I give Cincy 15-20 years and we see a complete renaissance.

 

oh wait.......THE SUBWAY.  Wasn't there a proposal to have shops down there? man that would've been kickass.

"THE SUBWAY.  Wasn't there a proposal to have shops down there? man that would've been kickass."

 

I would prefer the intended use!

^^You can look at The Underground, in Atlanta, to see how not kickass an idea that is.

^

Exactly what I was thinking.  Atlanta's Underground makes Tower Place look high-end.

"THE SUBWAY.  Wasn't there a proposal to have shops down there? man that would've been kickass."

 

I would prefer the intended use!

 

 

Definitely.  I mentioned this in the streetcar thread the other day, but I think Bortz has plans for those tunnels, assuming that we one day get light rail built.  Now that would be great.  1) we'd have light rail.  2) it would remove one of the biggest development black eyes that Cincinnati nay-sayers always point to.

Yea something needs to be done about the tunnels.  Either way, at least ONE of them should become operational.  They have a huge water pipe running inside the Central PKWY tunnel.  A lot of people say Cincy isn't large enough to house a subway.  But they fail to realize at the time of it's initial building, Cincy was growing faster than Chicago.  It's shocking to see what it could have been.

  • 4 months later...

I didn't know where else to put this, so I figured I'd put it here and bump this thread in the process...

 

Cincinnati Museum Center receives $2M for renovations

http://www.soapboxmedia.com/devnews/unionterminal0812.aspx

 

The Ohio Cultural Facilities Commission has approved $2 million for the Union Terminal renovation at its quarterly meeting.

 

The funding comes from money appropriated in the biennial budget passed by the 126th Ohio General Assembly and is the result of a two-year application process by the Cincinnati Museum Center.

 

"We're thrilled that people value the building and want to support the future of the building," says Elizabeth Pierce, vice president of marketing and communications for the Cincinnati Museum Center.

 

The first phase of the $120 million project would restore three dining rooms totaling 7,900 square feet and would repair a roof that has allowed water damage to occur.

 

"The dining rooms aren't currently in usable condition," Pierce says.  "We've been using it as a makeshift office space.  But there are leaks in the ceilings, the veneer is falling off, and the HVAC system is not efficient."

 

Bids for the first phase are scheduled to go out in the next few months, with work starting at the beginning of next year.

 

Future work will address the structure's parapets, columns, structural steel and plaster walls, upgrade the building’s mechanicals, and restore priceless Art Deco murals.

 

"It's important to note that this is non-sexy stuff that has to be fixed," Pierce says.  "It's going to take several years to do it the right way.  Historic preservation architecture takes time and special skills."

 

With the improvements, the Museum Center will be able to create more jobs by being able to rent the space out for events.

 

"Europe has buildings that last for centuries," Pierce says.  "We want people to be able to come and enjoy what we have to offer."

So how much of that 120 million do they have? 

  • 5 months later...

State funds approved for Museum Center

http://cincinnati.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/stories/2009/02/02/daily65.html

 

The Ohio Cultural Facilities Commission has approved $2.5 million for the Cincinnati Museum Center’s restoration project. The Museum Center announced last June that it was slated to receive the funding to restore and upgrade its home, the historic Union Terminal in Cincinnati’s West End. It will be used in the project’s first phase to replace about 80 historic windows and restore 4,000 square feet on dining room space in the terminal.

Does anyone have the illustrations that were posted earlier in this thread that seem to have disappeared?

^I'm working on it...

Not to be a stick in the proverbial mud, (and I have admittedly not seen the renderings) but I'm very concerned about the placement of the new garages and mixed use buildings. Despite being almost always half empty on a good day for the museum (like when I was there during the "Bodies" exhibit on a weekend), these parking areas provide a tremendous vista to Union Terminal. The building was meant to be viewed as one grand composition with its arms outstretched, pumping people in and out through the arteries of the city. I think if this development is to be done right, it's got to respect that view of the terminal, and have any new buildings (regardless of whether they are 2 or twenty stories tall) off to the extreme periphery of the current site. Recreating Lincoln Park over the parking lots would be a perfect way to preserve the design intent of the original plan.

 

I also think, that if the city were to run a streetcar line to the area, it would have to be somehow incorporated into a line stretching farther west, actually reaching the majority of the west side. The comment posted earlier about using the defunct stairs as as stop and running the line through the tunnel was a great one!

I totally agree about spoiling the view. My deck has an amazing view of downtown and union terminal..i would hate to see it blocked even though I am totally in favor of some development in that area of town.

Museum fix to cost $120M

http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20090210/ENT/302100087

 

Five years ago, Cincinnati Museum Center at Union Terminal officials estimated that a project to repair and restore the 76-year-old art deco masterpiece – a National Historic Landmark – would cost $20 million. The estimate has climbed to $120 million. Since then, an analysis of the building’s needs has revealed that the problems are six times more expensive than anticipated. The new estimate is $120 million, and it’s likely that center officials will ask Hamilton County voters to help pay for a still-undetermined portion of that amount through a tax levy request on the November ballot. The first phase of construction is scheduled to begin in May.

 

“There’s a lot of money in that work,” said Museum Center CEO Douglass McDonald. “If we don’t take care of it now, it will only get worse.”

The $41 million figure was for the entire project -- that included elevating and building the tracks that led to the concourse, various railroad viaducts, the Western Hills Viaduct, etc.  Duh. 

Cincinnati Union Terminal repairs estimated at $120M

http://www.soapboxmedia.com/devnews/cut0217.aspx

 

Repairs to Cincinnati Union Terminal will cost $120 million, according to Cincinnati Museum Center president and CEO Douglass W. McDonald.

 

Since 2005, the Cincinnati Museum Center has been undertaking an extensive study of the structure, including the use of thermography, radar, and ultrasound to create a type of "building MRI".

 

The study revealed corrosion to structural steel that has caused water damage and stone and brick wall displacement, a failing flat roof system, deficient flashing details, inefficient mechanicals, and failed replacement windows.

 

"They're things that were surprising to us," McDonald says.  "You can actually see through the imaging technique how pervasive the problem is all the way through the building."

 

The most complex and costly problem to remedy will be the repair of the structural steel, which will require removal of the building's structural skin and architectural elements.

 

"Historically, concrete was a very new construction material in the 1930s," McDonald says.  "They knew the structural integrity, but they didn't have the experience to know the relationship between concrete and steel, where it was a good application and where it was a challenge.  They didn't understand expansion joints."

 

McDonald says that they're exploring public-private partnerships, government grants, and even a tax levy to raise funds for the restoration.

 

"We're considering all sources of funding," he says.  "We don’t think a ballot issue will provide all of the funding necessary.  And we don't think that this is a time when we should be asking anybody to increase their taxes, so we think it's important that we do this in a careful way that has a stable, non-increase for taxpayers, but also creates the revenues necessary to fund the restoration of the building."

 

Funding is already in place for "Project One", the full restoration of the Cincinnati Dining Room and its adjacent rooms.

 

When completed later this year, that project is expected to inform the repair process for the rest of the building.

 

Without rapid intervention, the deterioration is expected to accelerate exponentially.

 

"We believe that this building is so important in our community that we really need to preserve the building and to make sure that it's here for future generations," McDonald says.

This is one place that doesn't need to be neglected.

Building it kept a lot of folks eating during the darkest days of the Great Depression, maybe fixing it back up will do the same this time.

  • 1 month later...

The original Hall of Justice

By Alex Shebar, Cincinnati Enquirer, March 24, 2009

 

Without a doubt, the world’s greatest superheroes need the world’s greatest headquarters. It must be a towering structure, massive in size and design. Something that displays not only power, but grace – a building that captures the essence of the heroes as they save the world time after time.

  • 4 weeks later...

Cincinnati Museum Center might seek bond money

http://cincinnati.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/stories/2009/04/27/tidbits1.html

 

Cincinnati Museum Center is exploring the feasibility of a taxpayer-financed bond issue that would raise about $80 million for badly needed repairs at Union Terminal. The proposal would replace two expiring property tax levies with a new 20-year assessment that would raise about $5.2 million a year, said Hamilton County Budget Analyst Lisa Webb. The idea is under study by Hamilton County’s Tax Levy Review Committee (TLRC), which advises commissioners on whether to place tax levies on the ballot.

 

“It’s an extremely large number, no doubt about it,” said Tim Molony, chairman of the TLRC and treasurer of the city of Norwood. “They’ve got a tremendous job on their hands to sell the idea to the public.”

I can't believe its been five years since we passed that levy.

  • 1 month later...

Union Terminal begins first phase of restoration project

http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/stories/2009/06/01/daily50.html

 

Cincinnati Union Terminal said it is beginning the first phase of an estimated $120 million restoration of the historic former train station in the West End. HGC Construction will serve as general contractor for the project, which is expected to cost $9 million, including previously completed roof and air conditioning work. The first phase includes the restoration and repair of the Cincinnati Dining Room and other historic dining rooms that are currently not open to the public. It includes repairs to roofing, steel columns, flashing, masonry, windows and lintels, building systems and the restoration of murals.

 

“The Cincinnati Dining Room, with its incredible ceiling mural of the city layout, circa 1930, has been a favorite of the community,” said Douglass McDonald, president and CEO of Cincinnati Museum Center, which is housed in Union Terminal. “This project will restore the space and will also make additional historic-period dining rooms usable for community programs and events.”

Doug Mcdonald does a great job managing this building. He truly realizes its signifigance and value. Thank God we have a guy like him in charge of it.

  • 1 year later...

Union Terminal fix could spark Queensgate revitalization

Science center, green space, new parking in plan

Business Courier - by Lucy May, Courier Senior Staff Reporter

Date: Friday, June 3, 2011, 6:00am EDT - Last Modified: Thursday, June 2, 2011, 12:04pm EDT

 

 

 

If taxpayers foot the bill for repairs to Union Terminal, the iconic home to Cincinnati Museum Center could serve as the catalyst for a $50 million science center adjacent to the site and another $85 million in commercial development for Queensgate.

 

http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/print-edition/2011/06/03/union-terminal-fix-could-spark.html

 

Union Terminal fix could spark Queensgate revitalization

Science center, green space, new parking in plan

Business Courier - by Lucy May, Courier Senior Staff Reporter

Date: Friday, June 3, 2011, 6:00am EDT - Last Modified: Thursday, June 2, 2011, 12:04pm EDT

 

 

 

If taxpayers foot the bill for repairs to Union Terminal, the iconic home to Cincinnati Museum Center could serve as the catalyst for a $50 million science center adjacent to the site and another $85 million in commercial development for Queensgate.

 

http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/print-edition/2011/06/03/union-terminal-fix-could-spark.html

 

This is a really fantastic idea!

 

http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/print-edition/2011/06/03/union-terminal-fix-could-spark.html?s=image_gallery

^Is it only going to be commercial?  It would be nice to see mixed use, bring the neighborhood back....

 

Though I'm not sure given all the industry if that would work out.  Shame they tore down so much back in the 60s...

Shame they tore down so much back in the 60s...

 

You win the understatement award! ;)

If they do build all that stuff, I hope they keep to the high standard of aesthetics set by the train station. I would be pretty furious if they put up some crap that distracts from the beauty of UT.

You don't have to worry about that.  It'll be crap, so brace yourself. 

I think the biggest problem we face in Ohio regarding quality development is that the ratio of the cost of buildings to the cost of the land they sit on is too high. When land is really expensive, putting a quality building on that land doesn't raise the cost of a development project by all that much. But when you can get the land for next to nothing, the difference between a cheap and quality building can increase the bottom line manyfold.

 

Obviously, there is also a mentality which accepts crap by believing all development is good development. But there is also a practical side of building crap, which is amplified where land is cheap.

Create an account or sign in to comment

Recently Browsing 0

  • No registered users viewing this page.