Posted August 3, 200717 yr Apparently there is some concern that Section 8 housing is moving into a part of Oakwood. The movement of Section 8 housing to the suburbs was predicted by poster "Damitrius" at the Dayton Daily News talkboards a few months ago... Resident bristles at housing outcry Oakwood city manager says city wouldn't fight Section 8 expansion. By Margo Rutledge Kissell Staff Writer Thursday, August 02, 2007 KETTERING — Penni Pickle moved into 520 Telford Ave., Apt. A, on June 7, the day the Dayton Metropolitan Housing Authority began leasing the 16 public housing apartments it spent $800,000 refurbishing. The woman had attended Oakwood schools until ninth grade before moving to Kettering. She had been living in Michigan but returned to the area to be near family and friends. Pickle, 44, who is on disability for emphysema and asthma, had been on a DMHA waiting list for a year. In recent days, she has watched her apartment complex become the focus of negative attention after some area homeowners expressed fear those and other World War II-era apartment buildings near Shroyer Road might be enrolled in a federal Section 8 rental housing voucher program that could draw displaced public housing residents from Dayton. Pickle bristles at the negative stereotype some have of residents living in public housing. "We have a normal life like everybody else. Some in the buildings have full-time jobs. The guy who lives above me is a youth minister," she said. "It's just we pay less rent than anyone else." http://www.daytondailynews.com
August 3, 200717 yr The DDN runs comments sections after articles, so you get a picture of what people are really thinking behind the polite facade one sees in real time when dealing with folks here....The Voice of the People: By painfultruth August 2, 2007 6:50 PM | Link to this Concerned, you missed the point. Low income housing draws the underclass which is wrought with violent crime, drugs and gangs. That is fact, not politically correct fantasy. Crime in other areas exists, however not at the rate or gravity. Big difference between stealing a pencil and shooting someone over their jewelry! Go buy a police scanner and you’ll hear the painful truth! I have one, and Bayberry Cove and Chevy Chase are responsible for the majority of serious crimes reported. Enough said. By vickie August 2, 2007 6:32 PM | Link to this I have perused all of the above comments and I am a little dismayed at the predjudice and ignorance displayed. I am a single mother who supported herself with no help from anyone. I worked and supported myself and paid my taxes. It is a well documented fact that Parkside Homes was a failure d/t to the high crime and vandalism rate. The same can be said of Chevy Chase. Not speaking against the handicapped, but most section-8 and DMHA housing is crime ridden. It is a fact. By Concerned August 2, 2007 5:53 PM | Link to this Excuse multiple posts. I did hit post once and then whatever went wrong one never knows. Section 8 housing does work for individuals in need but do not work for those that just want to take advantage of the system. I prefer my taxes to go to help those that truly want to help themselves. Not to those intending to abuse the system and break the law. By Concerned August 2, 2007 5:50 PM | Link to this To painfultruth, Did I ever indicate that I live in subsidized housing? You inferred that and I need to set you straight. NO we own our home and we have invested thousands of dollars in upgrades in the past five years. The housing market has tanked and we cannot sell our home because of the condition some properties within our area. We looked in Oakwood and yes their taxes are high but the taxes are based on the services you get. Get it now? By Paul August 2, 2007 5:20 PM | Link to this When you make the wrong chioces, expect the ones that have made the right choices to complain that it’s costing them their lifestyles to make sure you can “survive”. You are the idiot, not the one’s subsidizing your lack of cognitive thought. Don’t complain to Gov’t when you fail, and then load the “failure” on those who won’t “help” you. Damn, you’re involved in a good scam. Been taught well in your socialist schools, haven’t you!!! You didn’t learn anything else. Typical. By 2CENTS August 2, 2007 4:59 PM | Link to this Kay Didn’t bother to check out the study from MIT either did you? tell you what since your so much for the parkside folks being moved into what were once virtually crime free neighborhoods why don’t you volunteer your neighborhood to those from parkside that are being shipped to kettering/oakwood… ?? like i mentioned earlier when you resort to name calling your admitting your wrong and you have lost the discussion am i right posters?? By 2CENTS August 2, 2007 4:53 PM | Link to this Ahh your wrong Kay i said the section 8 folks they are moving into kettering on Bigger and whip are from parkside. i don’t live in Kettering or Oakwood or Dayton thank goodness… i am not against class or color of skin i am against behavior like being a felon who has no character or respect for anything including those of their same ethnicity or socio-economic background.. and it is really telling that your the one that has resorted to name calling, that generally means you feel you’ve lost By felix August 2, 2007 4:39 PM | Link to this “Sick of This”-you need to calm down before you blow a gasket. Your post just confirmed what I suspected, that you are on full blown welfare—section 8, food stamps, subsidized day care, and every other govt program. You may or may not be working but for sure you are delusional with paranoid tendencies likely from growing up on welfare. Try and get off these programs so you can have some self respect. You might think about using your medicaid card to get some anger management. Good luck! By Mary August 2, 2007 4:18 PM | Link to this People need to stop putting all single mothers in the same category. We aren’t all sluts who were sleeping around when we became pregnant. Some of us work very hard to support our children. I do NOT live in public housing and my child is VERY succesful in school. I also live in a nice suburb where some of my son’s friends’ parents made snap judgements about me. Once they got to know me, I do believe their opiniions changed because I now am able to call them friends. I’m sick of Oakwood mentality By GOOD ONE August 2, 2007 4:15 PM | Link to this Lower class does not eqaul lower standards By Danny August 2, 2007 4:07 PM | Link to this I moved from Dayton to Enon. From Enon to Athens County in the country. Never been happier. I grew up in Belmont. Wouldn’t live there now. I’d rather be dead and buried on the ridge behind my house in the Appalachian Hills than spend one more day in Dayton, Ohio. I feel sorry for you that have to live there with all that traffic and noise and people legislating how you live your life and who your neighbor will be. There is no criminal element in Shade, Ohio. We all respect and help one another. By Mary August 2, 2007 4:05 PM | Link to this Oh my gosh! All of you people are making me crazy! I thought I had a happy marriage, but AFTER the wedding and AFTER our child was born, my husband became very physically abusive. I left him for the safety of my child. Nine years later I have received NO child support, took out student loans to pay for school and am doing it on my own. I work full time and am still living paycheck to paycheck. Just because a person has an education does not guarantee a great paying job. By painfultruth August 2, 2007 3:55 PM | Link to this Kay, most people DON’T want lower class people in their neighborhoods. What’s wrong with wanting to keep higher standards? Awaiting your answer. And, if anyone thinks Kay is smart, they too must spend their welfare money on lottery tickets! By Justmyopinion August 2, 2007 3:29 PM | Link to this Kay, Being a single mother is a choice. Unless you are raped, you CHOOSE who you have sex with and if you have sex at all. If you choose to have sex to a man who won’t support you and a possible baby too, then you must live with your choice and not make taxpayers pay for it. As my father said frequently “If you can’t feed them, don’t breed them.” By GOOD ONE August 2, 2007 3:05 PM | Link to this AMEN KAY! I AM GLAD TO SEE SOMEONE HAS A BRAIN BESIDES ME. WE NEED MORE PEOPLE LIKE KAY! AND I AM SERIOUS! SOME OF THE PEOPLE ON HERE ARE NOT LOOKING AT THE BIG PICTURE OR THE REAL PROBLEM. By Kay August 2, 2007 2:58 PM | Link to this Of course you wouldn’t make this about race or economic class… except for the fact that you are basing your perception of the sec8 residents based on their race and mostly ECONOMIC CLASS as low income. I’m not about to make this a race issue. But let me point out your contradictions… you’re not making this a class issue… you just DON’T WANT THE LOWER CLASS MOVING INTO YOUR NEIGHBORHOOD. That’s not an issue based on class? You idiot… By 2CENTS August 2, 2007 2:52 PM | Link to this as i have said it isn’t about “being poor” “race” or “economic class” for me, and i would venture to say most of those asking for answers in Oakwood it is about behavior and character… if your on assistance and behave in a reasonable manor respect the community standards and have landlord/owners who keep the property up and work toward protecting property value investment, no one would have a problem.. just go by look at the apartments in the whip and bigger btw i don’t live in Ket. or Oakwood. By 2CENTS August 2, 2007 2:52 PM | Link to this as i have said it isn’t about “being poor” “race” or “economic class” for me, and i would venture to say most of those asking for answers in Oakwood it is about behavior and character… if your on assistance and behave in a reasonable manor respect the community standards and have landlord/ownners who keep the property up and work toward protecting property value investment, no one would have a problem.. just go by look at the apartments in the whip and bigger btw i don’t live in Ket. or Oakwood. By 2CENTS August 2, 2007 2:51 PM | Link to this as i have said it isn’t about “being poor” “race” or “economic class” for me, and i would venture to say most of those asking for answers in Oakwood it is about behavior and character… if your on assistance and behave in a reasonable manor respect the community standards and have landlord/owmners who keep the property up and work toward protecting property value investment, no one would have a problem.. just go by look at the apartments in the whip and bigger btw i don’t live in Ket. or Oakwood. By Kay August 2, 2007 2:45 PM | Link to this Speaking of choices… I would have more respect for someone who becomes pregnant by accident and keeps the baby than someone who aborts it. The poor aren’t always able to afford abortions anyway. Also, if a dad skips out after a baby is born,why should they be penalized for it/ It wasn’t THEIR choice for him to leave! I’m pretty sure most single mothers didn’t make the choice to be a single mother. Duh. By Alison August 2, 2007 2:42 PM | Link to this Also keep this in mind, the particular apartments being talked about here are one bedroom. I live in one a few streets over with my husband and we hardly have room for the two of us. These particular apartments are not for families and will most likely go to the disabled or elderly. By Kay August 2, 2007 2:40 PM | Link to this Crime is EVERYWHERE, don’t you get it? Why don’t you stop wasting your energy whining about other HUMAN BEINGS moving in next door to you and use it to fight the real problem of CRIME ITSELF. Stop fighting PEOPLE and start fighting CRIME. You have no right to complain about something if you’re not even making an effort to stop it. After all, life isn’t fair and nothing is ever handed to you. People in Dayton have to deal with crime to. By Justmyopinion August 2, 2007 2:38 PM | Link to this Everyone has been talking about “choice”. And that is what it all boils down to. As my father once told me: Rich people are rich because of the choices they make, and poor people are poor for the exact same reason.” So if you CHOOSE to have multiple children who get no support from their fathers, then you have made a choice. If you CHOOSE not to continue your education to get a better paying job, you have made a choice.Now you must live with your choices. Some people don’t like their choice By sick of this August 2, 2007 2:37 PM | Link to this felix, I will pray for you. I don’t have to lie about anything! I have a 40 HOUR A WEEK JOB PLUS ANY OVERTIME I CAN GET. YOU CAN LEARN A THING OR TWO FROM SOMEONE ON SECT 8! NOT EVERYONE ON THE IS A FREELOADER. I DON’T HAVE ANYTHING TO PROVE TO ANYONE BUT MYSELF! YOUR COMMENTS ARE A GOOD EXAMPLE OF SOMEONE BEING USED BY SATAN! YOU TRY TO BELITTLE THE GOOD TO MAKE YOURSELF FEEL GOOD. I HOPE YOU FEEL GOOD ABOUT YOURSELF. BY THE WAY THE DO HAVE PSYCH DRUGS FOR YOU AT CRISIS CARE! By 2CENTS August 2, 2007 2:36 PM | Link to this here is proof on the crime rates in section 8 housing as opposed to middle class neighborhoods done by MIT link is below; http://www.accessmylibrary.com/coms2/summary0286-10490724ITM By 2CENTS August 2, 2007 2:33 PM | Link to this The law enforcement folks go where the crim is Kay like it or not those from parkside and desoto bass type section 8’s bring their lifestyle with them, and if the citizenry don’t stand up and expose it the areas they work so hard to keep up and take care of as an investment will fall that way too, i don’t think i ever said all section 8 for those who need it to get back on their feet, i said the criminal element which happens to be the ones they are moving to Kettering. By Mayoridiot August 2, 2007 2:30 PM | Link to this 1. For those up top that said they live or lived in Sec 8 housing and went on the get a college degree, who paid for you to go to school? That’s what I thought the tax payer. 2. Apartments are magnets for the retched and I’m being kind. 3. This town Dayton and others that surround it have way too many apartment complexes. Time to get the bulldozer out and start building homes. By GA August 2, 2007 2:24 PM | Link to this THIS IS NOT A RACIAL ISSUE. I live in Oakwood for 12 years. I work every day of my life. On behave of all Oakwood citizens, Minorities and Blacks are welcome provided that you are not a criminal and maintain your property like the rest of us. Unfortunately, the section 8 housing developments that I have witnessed, represents a concentration of undesirables; blacks and whites. Who wants high crime statistics and poorly maintained homes next door? All others welcome. YOU REAP WHAT YOU SOW. By Kay August 2, 2007 2:24 PM | Link to this You can work full time and still not make enough to make ends meet, especially if you work in the retail or food industry. And believe me, don’t discredit those jobs as a job that “a monkey can do” because while the work itself is easy, you are constantly being harassed, degraded, and yelled for stuff that isn’t even your fault most of the time. You think these jobs are easy, but I would like to see someone leave their A/C desk and work 40 hours a week by a hot grill while always being yelled at By Alison August 2, 2007 2:23 PM | Link to this Felix, I will have you know that as long as you make under $33,700 you are eligible for low-income housing. I have a masters degree as a Rehabilitation Counselor and I would qualify for Sec 8. I work 40 hours a week making $12.98 an hour and I have an education. I work with people who have no education and possibly a minimum wage job that woudln’t even come close to be able to afford an apartment on their own. By Kay August 2, 2007 2:18 PM | Link to this I’m unclear as to whom you are referring in your rantings of reverse racial stereotyping. I’m also unclear as to what you’re saying because you are making absolutely no sense, and, once again, referencing a source that I can’t even see. Bravo… moron. As I stated before, you can’t rely on those sources because they aren’t garaunteed to catch all of the crime. As someone has stated before, a LOT of crime goes unreported, probably because of of the police enforcement is focusing on sec8! By felix August 2, 2007 2:16 PM | Link to this Here is another DDN lie, “Oakwood City Mgr. says wouldn’t fight section 8”. What he really said was he couldn’t fight it because there is nothing he can do. Big difference. Lance Winkler has done a great job of turning over the rock so we can see all the roaches scatter. “Sick of this” admit it you buy groceries with your food stamp card. If you really worked full time you wouldn’t be on sect 8—you are probably working 20 hours and to you it is “full time”. Stop freeloading,you will feel better By painfultruth August 2, 2007 2:14 PM | Link to this Kay, you are a prime example of jealousy. You ignore facts, and want to slant everything in your favor. And, my area is relatively safe. I don’t have to lock my car, and even can keep all 3 of my convertibles parked outside at night with their tops down without fear of theft. You’re just jealous as you have nothing and envy those who do. Do I care about what you think? Only enough to laugh out loud at your sorry position in life! Maybe somebody will toss you a few pennies today if you’re lucky! By Alison August 2, 2007 2:12 PM | Link to this For those of you who talk about Sec 8 apartments in disrepair you need to go look at the apartments on Telford. Then take a drive down Wltshire and see all of the building in foreclosure by landlords from the Middletown area who were basically slum lords before the foreclosure took place. In addition, I work in an agency where many of my clients will be homeless upon their discharge. If sec 8 can come up with more 1 bedroom apartments I have to support it. By 2CENTS August 2, 2007 2:07 PM | Link to this vandalism/property theft or damage 75% lower, 0 drug induced overdose deaths, 0 stabbings, 0 firearms under”disability” violations. and guess what?? when the KPD sub-station went in all the above issues dropped back down 48%. so i don’t see anything as bigoted, that “grid” had the highest rate for these issues in the city, oh btw it also has the highest rate of section 8 housing and 100% to 0% advantage of former parksiders in Kettering By 2CENTS August 2, 2007 2:02 PM | Link to this you know it is a shame when you that those who say they are for fairness resort to racial stereotyping in reverse when they can’t win because facts prove the opposition out, facts Kay before section 8 housing- 0 prostitution arrests in that area (specifically selling at the bus stops or on the corners of the street) Dollar general store was thriving and had the 2nd lowest “shrinkage” (theft loss) rate in the area, (cont) By Kay August 2, 2007 1:51 PM | Link to this Let me tell you the PAINFUL TRUTH. Life isn’t fair, and nobody has to listen to you. Maybe you should et over that fact that sec8 housing is coming to your neighborhood. After all, life isn’t fair, so get off your self-righteous throne and get over it. By Kay August 2, 2007 1:42 PM | Link to this Here’s another flaw, 2CENTS. Since there’s the stereotype that sec8 housing is riddles with criminals, of course Kettering and other cities will send more police to patrol those areas more heavily. It’ a no brainer that they’ll find more crime in such areas, while other crimes are happening just as much in other areas, only undetected b/c they don’t feel the need to patrol it as they do the sec8 housing. You’re records would only prove your city board is full of stereotyping bigots. By painfultruth August 2, 2007 1:40 PM | Link to this Regardless of all the noise on this board, anyone notice all the jealousy boiling out of the poor people? One doesn’t build up the weak by tearing down the strong. AND, there is nothing wrong with wanting to hold high standards in ones own community. Not fair? Life isn’t fair, so get over it. By Kay August 2, 2007 1:38 PM | Link to this So basically what you’re saying 2CENTS is that you’re citing information that we don’t have on hand to look at unless we spend both the time and money trusting that there is such evidence in records. That’s just like asking us to take your word for it. Don’t use facts that aren’t open. They’re about as credible as a wise tale. By painfultruth August 2, 2007 1:31 PM | Link to this Concerned, look at your data. Notice muggings, armed robbery, shootings and stbbings are all missing. I don’t see drug busts or bootleg operations there either! Gee, what does this mean? Means you’re trying to deflect the seriousness of the issue. Now, go back inside your subsidized home that I PAY FOR WITH MY TAXES so you don’t have to live on the street. By 2CENTS August 2, 2007 1:22 PM | Link to this don’t have a link Kay, my parents have the data in paper reports which you can go and pay for at the kettering police department, they got those reports to get the facts so they could prove their point when they had neighborhood meetings with the city of kettering where they lived for 30yrs before they moved from kettering after running into strong resistance from the city, your welcome to go and pay your fee to get them at the Kettering police department 3600 Shroyer Road Kettering, OH 45429 By carol August 2, 2007 1:16 PM | Link to this wake up Oakewood residence you are not as special as you thank. Bad stuff happens in your neighbor hoods always has and always will. You have alcholics, people abusing legal and illegal drugs. Child molestors. You just don’t openly share your dirty laundry. Join the real world. Judge not yea be judged. By CJ August 2, 2007 1:10 PM | Link to this I own a house in this subdivision, which it southeast of these apartments. I have lived in this area for the last 10+ years. I can a noticable change in the last year and a half. We constantly have a lot of vandalism to our cars and property. Young thugs roam our streets at night. Our school, Orchard Park Elementary, has new students that have moved to this area from Dayton. You’d be amazed how they speak and behave. I never knew that children so young could spew such racist comments. By Kay August 2, 2007 1:07 PM | Link to this OK 2CENTS. Why don’t you give me a link to your data? By 2CENTS August 2, 2007 1:04 PM | Link to this Absolutely right concerned!! just like busing back in the 70’s instead of making the parents and kids accountable for the the poor state of different areas education they moved the kids to the neighborhood schools that didn’t have a problem, what happened? all of Dayton city schools went in the tank.. it isn’t going to work in this case either until you make each person accountable for their acions, By Concerned August 2, 2007 12:56 PM | Link to this Heck you can just come down to Wash Twp. There is a property in a respectable neighborhood in which the residents are: 1. One pled guilty of theft in Butler County 2. Same as 1 found guilty in Clermont County of horse theft 3. Same as 2 pulled back into Butler County jail failed “P” test 4. Another stopped in Dayton 8 times on SW side between 2am-5am suspicious 5. Same as 3 and he took a walk while on Montgomery County work detail 6. Same as 3 again he “borrowed” a “vet” from where he was working and totaled it. 7. Same as 3 again he was found guilty and is to pay back the owner - good luck on that one 8. Same as 3 and he pled guilty in Warren County on failure to comply - sentenced to 2 years 9. Second other blew off court appearance Warren County on failure to comply and possession of (guess?) 10. Same as 8 was arrested for stalking, abduction and domestic violence pled guilty on the abduction and domestic violence - sentenced to 4 years You don’t need to have Section 8 housing in your neighborhood to have serious issues. I believe that for some unknown and stupid logic is that the thought was by moving section 8 residents around it would separate them from those creating the most problems. The governments have only disbursed problems into other areas. If the citizens of each of the areas where section 8 is, and is ordered to be, are aware and vigilant perhaps they will move. They won’t. The police departments within all areas know about the activities created within these “communities”. Granted, Oakwood is complaining about the section 8 which is in Kettering but they have that right to “B - - - H”. By the way the property I am referring to above is NOT SECTION 8. By 2CENTS August 2, 2007 12:54 PM | Link to this was successful at curtailing quite a bit of the crime issues, but the city council took away the funding for the sub-station and the problems tripled again.. check it out don’t take my word for it… now the Shoyer road area is in for the same thing i would bank my “rich gated community” house on it!! By HNRY August 2, 2007 12:50 PM | Link to this SIMPLY AMAZING Instead of working in the Dayton community to fix the issue you ran to the burbs to get away.Now you have the audacity to cry that the problem is attempting to following you. Should have delt with the problem instead of running. The only consolation for Daytonians is getting to hear you wine that Dayton’s problem’s are spilling in to you’r city, they were your problem until you cut and ran. Guess what? It’s grown legs and is in hot persuit. By 2CENTS August 2, 2007 12:50 PM | Link to this see the state of disrepair they are in you will be shocked that an area that was as nice and well kept up as any in the entire state is in that shape now and those are majority PRIVATE owners who take the government money, the cities are virtually powerless to enforce “upkeep” standards because they hit the “federal housing” brick wall and that in turn ruins property values, all the city can do is try to prevent crime, Kettering actually install a police “Sub-station” by the chimneys and By HNRY August 2, 2007 12:48 PM | Link to this SIMPLY AMAZING Instead of working in the Dayton community to fix the issue you ran to the burbs to get away.Now you have the audacity to cry about the problem is attempting to following you. Should have delt with the proble instead of running. The only consolation for Daytonians is getting to hear you wine that Dayton’s problem’s are spilling in to you’r city, they were your problem until you cut and ran. Guess what? It’s grown legs and is in hot persuit. By 2CENTS August 2, 2007 12:44 PM | Link to this as i have said it isn’t about “being poor” “race” or “economic class” for me, and i would venture to say most of those asking for answers in Oakwood it is about behavior and character… if your on assistance and behave in a reasonable manor respect the community standards and have landlord/owmners who keep the property up and work toward protecting property value investment, no one would have a problem.. just go by and take a look at the apartments in the whip and bigger section of kettering By sick of this August 2, 2007 12:41 PM | Link to this Felix is stupid I am on sect 8 and I work full time. I buy groceries at CUB foods with the money I work hard for, I pay my utility bill with money I work hard for. I have a decent job that pay alot more than mim wage! As a matter of fact I am looking forward to the day when I make too much to be eligible for it! I don’t get anything for free! And don’t want anything handed to me I have worked my entire Life. Get some facts before you judge! By 2CENTS August 2, 2007 12:37 PM | Link to this Sorry John, big difference in renting at “fair market value” and having section 8 from a well known crime center like parkside homes 9which is closing, majority has closed) supplanted in your neighborhood where you pay taxes and work hard to protect your property value investment… fair market rent rates and credit checks tend to weed out the hardcore criminal element.. and statistical fact is on the folks speaking out side.. just no one wants to admit it for fear of being labled. fact is fact By John August 2, 2007 12:26 PM | Link to this I am disappointed in the views conveyed in most of the posts on here as they reflect a lot of ignorance; I pity your neighbors. I own rental property in Kettering and Oakwood. As such, I must obey fair housing standards-something many of you would fail to follow. By painfultruth August 2, 2007 12:19 PM | Link to this Let’s grind up all the poor people and turn them into fertilizer. That way they will be of some viable use! By 2CENTS August 2, 2007 12:07 PM | Link to this Sorry Kay i don’t lean on “assumptions” check out the police reports Grid 2 in kettering has had crime rates triple since parkside section 8 came in.. and 97% of that crime came from……. section 8 residents.. it is in the reports look it up for yourselves… I think the people are afraid that Dayton is exporting their problems to the Burbs rather than enforcing rules and the law you want section 8 in these areas you should have to qualify, rich kids have to qualify for college don’t they? By felix August 2, 2007 12:03 PM | Link to this Reality you need to get some because your post is in serious error. The reality is that the reason people qualify for section 8 is THEY DON’T WORK HARD IF AT ALL. A few have part time jobs but most live off food stamps, a little child support, help from relatives, maybe an SSI check. They are on PIP plan so only pay a few dollars on utilities. They get extra food from the WIC program. This is the best economy in years with free college for all low income families. NO MORE EXCUSES-GO TO WORK! By Cleveland August 2, 2007 11:54 AM | Link to this I grew up in the Desoto Bass projects in the 70’s and 80’s. Everyone was pretty much poor there. I seen a community go from tolerable to LIVING HELL literally over night when crack came into the picture. It produce a gateway of opportunity for the poor’s way of thinking. Let’s not kidd ourselves these are legit concerns that Oak/Kett should have. The break-ins that Oakwood has is nothing compared to the home invasions in Day. Owning a home means you should be concerned about it’s value. By 2CENTS August 2, 2007 11:53 AM | Link to this Why is it ok to force something on some one based on the perception of the community or how much their home is worth?? Dayton ruined itself years ago when they started busing and couldn’t control crime all the folks who could afford to move out did, they ignore the problems and create more by coddling poor behavior ie; Dayton police”pusuit policy” RTA “student” bus policy “regional dispatch” etc. policy the suburbs except for Kettering don’t want to wind up like dayton so they resist!! By Kay August 2, 2007 11:50 AM | Link to this This has gotten ridiculous. How can you people be so hateful of other people? How can you lean on your self-made assumptions and stereotypes as if they are fact? Want to know a fact? I live in a nice are that’s NOT near sec8 housing and crime is going up! I DON’T live in the heart of Dayton, yet I’m seeing crime. Is it that sec8 is causing crime? Or is it that crime happens EVERYWHERE no matter if there’s sec8 or not? By 2CENTS August 2, 2007 11:47 AM | Link to this expressing outrage and forcing “dirty secrets” to light will force the “powers that be” to make sure strict rules are enforced.. I don’t think it is about “RACE” or economic “CLASS” it is about character.. it is america as some have said earlier and if you choose to live in a $200,000 house you expect to keep your property values and community standards that keep those values that is why those “rich” people as some have said “chose” to live there, “poor” don’t want things forced on them, By 2CENTS August 2, 2007 11:35 AM | Link to this My parents don’t have a thing against anyone that needs assistance especially like the disabled lady in the article, but the facts are that the people who are legitimate disabled law abiding good solid citizens are the minority in public subsidized housing, my parents helped those who were disabled and needed assistance,neighbors what they didn’t want is the criminal element from parkside homes “Infesting” that social behavior in a neighborhood they chose to live in because it was safe. By 2cents August 2, 2007 11:23 AM | Link to this The kettering officials are denying any of this but the police reports don’t lie, check out the police reports for grids 2 and three in the city of kettering, it isn’t DMHA you have to worry about folks they enforce their rules it is the private owner who doesn’t live in the city but owns these properties and makes his profit off of section 8 that you need to worry about, don’t take their word for it do your research!! my parents moved out of kettering completely because of the parkside move!! By Michele August 2, 2007 11:19 AM | Link to this Help is not given to everyone a lot of government programs are set up for those with children. If you have no children you are SOL. The system needs monitored you break the rules you are out. At the rate prices are going up and salaries are staying the same we are all close to needing help but not everyone gets help. I can not blame the Oakwood residence for being concerned about their neighborhood maybe if we all were that concerned our neighborhoods and schools would be in better shape. By 2cents August 2, 2007 11:18 AM | Link to this Mr. winkler is right, my parents lived on bigger and whip roads in kettering, section 8 from parkside has been moving into the Chimneys,Oaktrail of kettering and the block of appartments on the corner of whip and bigger, prostitution busts have been conducted on that corner, the dollar store in the shopping center has closed because of theft exceding sales, drug overdose deaths, gun violence,Break ins, vandalism and muggins have nearl tripled in the last 2 years, continued…. By harry jackson August 2, 2007 11:17 AM | Link to this It’s part of the life of a growing city. But if your looking for a good used car, Don’t go to kens kars. they sold me a car that lasted for only 5 month By Oakwood4Ever August 2, 2007 11:14 AM | Link to this OakwoodRes, I hope your whole family can be close to you in time. No one I know thinks Section 8 tenants are evil. But no one can deny the troubled history of the DMHA projects in Dayton and not question this new redistribution. It’s not people I don’t have faith in, it’s the DMHA system. But if I said I wanted “more of my kind” in Oakwood, being a white european, I would be rediculed. Why is it that when you say so I doesn’t bother me? By doug,bowling,franklin,ohio August 2, 2007 11:02 AM | Link to this yes,i,do,god,helped,them,that,dont,,god,bless,you,all. By OakwoodRes August 2, 2007 10:49 AM | Link to this I am a black Oakwood resident with a great job. I do however have several family and friends that do need some assistance from DMHA and I am hoping they can move closer to me. I am trying to get them to move in my neighborhood with my kind. They are good and decent human beings and deserve the same things everyone else does. By reality PT. 3 fo 3 August 2, 2007 10:45 AM | Link to this Why?Because they’re a little more affluent then you are, that’s why they’re gated. They don’t want you there either. So, there are solutions to these things. There CAN be control on these apartments. I see nothing wrong with giving hardworking people a chance. I have friends who went thru a process out of DMHA with training I think and they were given a grant to buy a house. Not drug dealers.. hardworkers. By reality Pt 2 of 3 August 2, 2007 10:43 AM | Link to this Now, What about that DIRTY SECRET that finally HAD to come out, when it was numerous break-ins in Oakwood. “Oh no, people cant find out we actually have crimes here, including rapes, and not by some cracked out black man who wants .50. C’mon its all about fear. People have taken so much stock in their houses and cars. They are scared to lose value on it. Let me ask you this ,if you are soooooo affluent ..why don’t you move further up to oh lets say…….a gated community. (will continue) By Reality Pt.1 of 3 August 2, 2007 10:41 AM | Link to this I do NOT live in Dayton nor Oakwood, or Kettering for that matter. I say Just because a person lives in Oakwood doesn’t make them an exceptional person. This may sound one sided, but its not. I know there are lazy people around , but as a wife and mother whose husband is in management , I am seeing how close we are to needing help. I have seen numerous calls about police and hostage situations in nice Kettering areas with domestic problems. WHAT ABOUT…(WIL CONTINUE NEXT BOX) By Ty August 2, 2007 10:37 AM | Link to this WHAT’S THE PROBLEM? SECTION 8 IS’NT NOTHING NEW. IT’S A WAY TO MAKE MONEY AND PROVIDE FAMILY’S WITH A PLACE TO LIVE. WE CAN NOT PICK WHO MOVES IN NEXT DOOR. WE CAN ONLY PICK OUR FRIENDS. AND SOMETIMES WE DONT EVEN DO A GOOD JOB AT THAT. SECTION 8 CAN BE FOUND ALL OVER THE CITY OF DAYTON NOT JUST ON THE WEST SIDE.SO JUST LIVE WITH IT. By Ty August 2, 2007 10:36 AM | Link to this WHAT’S THE PROBLEM? SECTION 8 IS’NT NOTHING NEW. IT’S A WAY TO MAKE MONEY AND PROVIDE FAMILY’S WITH A PLACE TO LIVE. WE CAN NOT PICK WHO MOVES IN NEXT DOOR. WE CAN ONLY PICK OUR FRIENDS. AND SOMETIMES WE DONT EVEN DO A GOOD JOB AT THAT. SECTION 8 CAN BE FOUND ALL OVER THE CITY OF DAYTON NOT JUST ON THE WEST SIDE.SO JUST LIVE WITH IT. By Cleveland August 2, 2007 10:36 AM | Link to this All of this is boiling down to education. I am black and I respect the Oakwood/Kettering folks in taking a stand to protect their neighborhood, but keeping low income people concentrated in the same area is not productive at all for the community. Less motivated citizens living in a highly motivated society should change the way of thinking for the less motivated citizen for the better. If there is a concentration of section8 in one area this could go the other way. By Oakwood4Ever August 2, 2007 10:26 AM | Link to this All the Oakwood haters can keep hating. We don’t care. We’ll take care of ourselves and our city as always. We have the resources, stamina and unity. Residents have been asking for answers for weeks. Lance Winkler wasn’t getting answers on the issue so he rung the bell hard. Now the facts come out. DMHA says they have no plans to add more units. Maybe that’s true. Either way, we’ll be watching and will speak up whenever we damn well please. By felix August 2, 2007 10:17 AM | Link to this Notice the DDN didn’t bother to seek out a nearby resident who might feel their property value went down or the quality of life deteriorated. They must have a database of welfare sob stories they can pull up at a moments notice. How about some stories about people who actually work hard, buy a house, and then find out the property value went down due to DMHA infiltration. By sick of this August 2, 2007 10:10 AM | Link to this I am on SECT 8 I don’t drink, do drugs, steal, party or anything I think it is unfair that i am put in a catagory with people that do. I work everyday and have always worked full time. I just don’t make enough to make ends meet. I don’t get any other assistance! I just hope that the people that are judging others remember that the will be judged by the same measure one day. Question were the ENRON executives on SECT 8? and they brought down an entire company! By matt August 2, 2007 9:51 AM | Link to this Tracy: ” The fact is everyone is ENTITLED to have a place to lay their head……” Entitlement? strange, I had to work for EVERYTHING that is mine! Tracy, did you leave you brain at home? By Tracy August 2, 2007 9:51 AM | Link to this Section 8 is NOT a handout; it was a program designed to assist those who maybe by circumstances or just life, are unable to work or are considered “working poor”. I don’t know about you, but there is no way I could survive off of minimum wage, which is now $6.85. This has nothing to do with race, it applies to everyone. I hope and pray that those of you “smart, educated” people never find yourselves in a situation where you need some assistance or have to depend upon the kindness of others. By Janice August 2, 2007 9:38 AM | Link to this People who expect the government to provide housing, food and other essentials (and sometimes non-essentials) are not good neighbors. By Tracy August 2, 2007 9:37 AM | Link to this For the first time, I am weighing in on a very controversial subject. It amazes me reading some of the narrowminded and stereotypical comments leveled in this discussion; it also saddens me. The fact is everyone is entitled to have a place to lay their head, sit on their porch, work, go to church, go to school, etc; to live and survive. Just because someone is on Section 8 doesn’t mean they are less intelligent, educated, into drugs, crime, lazy or any other negative label that is put on them. By matt August 2, 2007 9:18 AM | Link to this As a prerequisite to receiving any form of public assistance, all recipients should be forced in to live Mexico for one month. In Mexico, the average wage is about $10.00 per day. The average Mexican works six days a week and earns about 1.00 per hour. All that talk about how cheap it is live down there is just that, talk. Food, housing, and clothing is pretty much close to what we pay here. Most Mexicans form the Yucatan region, sleep in hammocks. Their main source of food is a flour tortilla. They eat it with everything. Their main source of protein is the egg. They eat very little beef and pork. In Mexico, children as young as seven years old, work in the plaza selling cigarettes and bubble gum. Our welfare class has no idea how good they have it. So, when people like SingleMama and the bleeding hearts start their peeing and moaning, I just want to spit in their faces! By daniel August 2, 2007 9:16 AM | Link to this JUST LOOK AT DAYTON AND THE WAY KETTERING IS STARTING TO GET AND YOU WILL SEE WHAT OAKWOOD WILL BECOME!!!!!!! By Cindy August 2, 2007 9:13 AM | Link to this The well to do kids are not perfect. They are way into drugs, so don’t put the Section 8 tenants on blast because of drugs and crime in the area. You can’t run from it, its right in your own backyard. When a homicide occurs in the well to do neighbor, its, “I never thought anything would happen like that in our neighborhood”. Well excuse me, you are not exempt from crime! Deal with it!
August 4, 200717 yr Pleasantville is getting more colored people, and like in the movie the locals are upset and don't know what to do about it.
August 9, 200717 yr I grew up in East Dayton in Woods Trailer Park and attended Kemp Elementary. Growing up in a trailer park gives one a whole different view of low-income housing. I can't BEGIN to tell you the number of times that I was referred to as trailer-park trash, white trash, etc ad nauseaum. I chuckled as a young man when they built the first low-income housing at Burkhardt and Cosler and again when they developed Sunshine CT. AH, sweet revenge is blissful! But times change and so do people. The comments about Section 8 and drugs and crime, sad as it is, are woefully true in many cases. You can call the residents of Oakwood elitists all you want but they do have significant amounts of $$$ invested in their homes. At this late stage in my life I can certainly understand the sentiment of not wanting to see a lifetime of work degrade into a cesspool. Before I get slammed here - I am in no way inferrring or implying that ALL welfare, single moms and Section 8 people are bad, worthless, drug addicted, etc. There are certainly many good and deserving people that find themself in that situation. But one cannot escape the demographics of what happens in these neighborhoods that have Section 8 housing. If you want to open your eyes to this, try factfinder.census.gov . This is SUCH a GREAT research tool for everything statistical and demographic.
August 9, 200717 yr Pleasantville is getting more colored people, and like in the movie the locals are upset and don't know what to do about it. Just look at the July 24, 2007 edition of the Oakwood Register... Section Eight housing going up across Shroyer Road By Lance Winkler “Did you know there’s going to be eight hundred units of Section Eight housing going up in Kettering?” “What’s going on with this Section Eight housing deal?” “Is it true Parkside Homes is moving over to the plat across from Shroyer Road?” “I’ve been told that they are relocating people from the low income housing north of downtown to the apartments across Shroyer, because the same developer owns both, and the low income housing downtown, which was a haven for drugs and crime, is being razed.” Over the past nine months, these questions have been asked by concerned citizens in the area who have contacted The Oakwood Register by phone, letter, e-mail and office visits, all either telling what they have heard from local officials, “on the grapevine”, and asking if the rumors are true. “Were you aware that the Dayton Metropolitan Housing Authority has bought three apartment buildings in the 500 block of Telford in Kettering, just across the street from Oakwood?” one concerned Oakwood citizen e-mailed us and who asked not to be named. “I spoke to a DMHA official who said people will start moving in from the Parkside Homes project as soon as the buildings are refurbished. He (the DMHA official) also said they plan to buy all the apartment buildings that go up for sale in the area on the east side of Shroyer Road. That is an eight-block area full of those apartment buildings. I feel we are in for a big ride and crime, drugs, etc, will follow. This will be a devastating blow to Kettering and Oakwood. The complexion of both communities is about to change. This and the possibility of a Metro Government sure doesn’t make me want to stay in this area,” she wrote. In talking with Kettering officials, they did in fact confirm that 79 families from the Parkside Homes project have since moved into the apartment plats across Shroyer Road in Kettering. http://www.oakwoodregister.com/
August 9, 200717 yr And here are "Letters to the Editor" in response to above article.... Section Eight article irresponsible I write in response to the Register’s July 24, 2007 article entitled “Section Eight housing going up across Shroyer Road”. Simply put, the article is replete with misinformation and factual distortions. The article’s headline implies that Section Eight housing will be constructed across Shroyer Road. That is untrue. Rather, DMHA recently purchased four apartment buildings on Telford in Kettering. Each building consists of four units. In short, DMHA now owns 16 units on Telford, nothing approaching “eight hundred units of Section Eight housing” as suggested by the article. Importantly, DMHA has invested over $800,000 in the renovation of the 16 units, hardly bad news for the Oakwood/Kettering community. In a city of approximately 58,000 residents, 170 Kettering residents use Section 8 housing vouchers. 15 Oakwood residents use Section 8 housing vouchers. DMHA has owned one four-unit apartment building on Shroyer in Oakwood since 2004 and, contrary to the article’s tenor, the sky hasn’t fallen. Further, DMHA’s Director of Planning and Development confirms DMHA has no plans to purchase additional units in the area. More importantly, DMHA carefully screens all its applicants via thorough background checks for felony convictions and drug and sex-related offenses which automatically disqualify any DMHA applicant. Oakwood residents should be more concerned about the criminal proclivities of their next door neighbors than DMHA applicants. Most regrettably, the article postulates that the “complexion” of Oakwood and Kettering will change, a poorly veiled and racially-charged reference calculated to frighten skittish Oakwood citizens that “darkies” may be coming to our neighborhood. I am sick and tired of tacit acceptance of racial stereotyping in our community. Oakwood, thankfully, has become more racially, ethnically and religiously diverse during the 40 years I have lived here. It’s about time. I was most frightened by the article’s anecdote regarding an Acorn Drive “resident” armed with his 38. Cal. Revolver “for good measure” who saw fit to “confront [a suspicious pair]” outside his property and then allegedly follow them in his car. I hope this vignette was merely poetic license. The spectre of Oakwood residents, armed to the teeth and prepared to exact vigilante justice, is hardly something welcomed by intelligent citizens or our Oakwood Police Department. Here’s a tip, if you see suspicious activity, report it to the Police Department and leave the gun play, should any prove necessary, to our outstanding professionals. I have lived in Oakwood for over 40 years. My wife has lived here all her life. Our four children were educated in Oakwood City Schools. I love Oakwood. I wouldn’t live anywhere else. I resent irresponsible articles which merely serve to denigrate our community and frighten its citizens. Steven K. Dankof, Sr., Esq. Oakwood Kettering & Oakwood city managers issue joint response to article about Section 8 Housing Dear Readers: The front page article in the July 24 issue of the Oakwood Register (“Section Eight housing going up across Shroyer Road”) regarding Section 8 housing was both inaccurate and insensitive. Not only was the article filled with false information, but its tone was such that the article could spread fear and animosity among neighbors and citizens. This is very unfortunate. So much so that we felt this issue necessitated a joint response from both City Managers. Let’s begin by addressing the inaccuracies of the article: The Dayton Metropolitan Housing Authority (DMHA) recently purchased four – 4-unit apartment buildings on Telford Avenue in the city of Kettering, and they have invested $800,000 in renovations to these four buildings. There are no plans to establish 800 Section 8 housing units in Kettering. DMHA is establishing a total of 16 public housing units, four in each of the four buildings. DMHA began leasing the 16 units on Telford within the last two weeks and about 10 of those are currently leased. Parkside Apartments have been in the process of closing down for many years. There are currently 101 families at Parkside. They will be relocated to places of their choosing throughout Montgomery County. Most have chosen to stay in the neighborhoods in which their families, friends and places of worship are located. Before a resident is placed in one of the units, they are carefully screened and a thorough background check is done. Histories of felony convictions, drug offenses or sex related crime automatically disqualify a person from the program. Kettering and Oakwood have had low-income residents for decades. The apartments in the Shroyer Road area have always been affordable. DMHA’s presence in the neighborhood will not change the “complexion” of the neighborhood and reference, whether deliberate or not, to the racial make-up of residents is racist and discriminatory. Despite what was written in the Oakwood Register, no Kettering official has ever stated that 79 families from the Parkside Apartments have moved to this apartment plat. Kettering’s Planning and Development Director spent almost one hour on the phone and “on-the-record” with Mr. Winkler explaining the facts regarding the apartments. Mr. Winkler chose to ignore these truths and stated that he could not get a straight answer. At no time did Mr. Winkler contact Kettering City Manager, Mark Schwieterman, or Oakwood City Manager, Norbert Klopsch, to discuss this issue. Now, set aside the fact that the article is laden with untruths. Perhaps the most disturbing element to this whole article is that it excites anxiety about the one thing that is very near and dear to all of us, and that’s our home. Living in a safe and secure environment is probably the top priority for all Kettering and Oakwood residents regardless of income. The goal of DMHA housing is to provide decent, safe, affordable housing to people in need. Shouldn’t our focus here be on helping our neighbors to achieve greater success in life? We urge the residents of both Kettering and Oakwood to consider the facts of this issue. If you would like to discuss this issue further, please contact us at: Mark Schwieterman: [email protected] or 296-2412 Norbert Klopsch: [email protected] or 298-0600 Response from the Dayton Metropolitan Housing Authority Below are the responses to the allegations that appeared in an article published by the Oakwood Register on July 24, 2007: The Housing Choice Voucher program, which is also known as Section 8, is a program that is available to private landlords who are willing to participate by renting their units to clients who possess a Housing Choice Voucher. Although the Housing Choice Voucher program is administered by Dayton Metropolitan Housing Authority, DMHA is not currently an owner of Section 8 units. Tenants are responsible for finding an acceptable unit that meets Housing Quality Standards that are set by the U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development (HUD) for all Section 8 units. If the unit passes inspection and the rent for the unit falls within what is rent reasonable for the client based on their income, then the tenant can enter into a lease with the private landlord. Public housing units are DMHA owned and managed units that receive rental subsidy under the HUD public housing program. DMHA has purchased five apartment buildings across Shroyer Road on Telford Avenue. These units are public housing units, not Section 8. • In July 2004, DMHA purchased one building containing four one-bedroom units at 2018 Shroyer Road in the City of Oakwood. • In November 2005, DMHA purchased four buildings each containing four one-bedroom units on Telford Avenue in the City of Kettering. DMHA has spent in excess of $800,000 to renovate the Telford units. The Telford Avenue units are not being held or committed specifically to Parkside residents. The units are available to all potential clients that require a one-bedroom unit and are currently on the DMHA public housing waiting list. Units are committed to residents based on family size. Parkside residents have been offered the choice between a Housing Choice Voucher that can be used in the private housing market or a public housing unit. The residents have been given this option to increase their housing choices. To date, four units at the Shroyer Road property are occupied and ten units are leased out of the sixteen units at the Telford properties. Leasing of the Telford units began June 7, 2007. Leasing of the Shroyer Road units began January 31, 2006. There are 101 families currently remaining at Parkside Homes. Forty-eight families have been relocated from Parkside Homes; one individual has been relocated to Telford and thirty-two families have been issued vouchers to be used in the private market. DMHA currently is not in negotiations to purchase any additional properties in either the City of Kettering or the City of Oakwood. Although DMHA is currently not purchasing property in either jurisdiction, that does not preclude DMHA from purchasing property in the future (Ed.). DMHA feels that affordable housing options should be available to all of the residents of Montgomery County no matter where they want to live and the agency will work to increase those options for our clients. DMHA has stated to both the City of Kettering and the City of Oakwood that they will inform the jurisdiction of any plans to purchase property prior to entering into an option to purchase. DMHA is also required to enter into a cooperation agreement with any jurisdiction where public housing units are to be located. FYI on DMHA I appreciated your article about the DMHA moving into the apartment complexes in Kettering. My main question is what criteria do they use to determine a target area for their “mission”? Their website provides very little data and is outdated to say the least which along with their various scores indicate a shoddy enterprise. It provides very little useful information. Given Oakwood’s history with this type of housing along Shroyer (the police calls were numerous) I can only assume that the spillover from Kettering will become our problem as well. Bexley in Columbus is a beautiful city but it is surrounded by blight such as DMHA housing. I would be curious as to what experiences they have had? Just some comments from a concerned citizen. From their website: HUD dated Nov. 15, 2004: Indicator #3 - Determination of Adjusted Income: 20 points possible; 0 points scored (How can they NOT check this item?!?!) DMHA earned 82 percent of the 140 potential points. Performance Rating > STANDARD. DMHA will check criminal history for all adults in the household to determine whether any member of the family has engaged in drug-related or violent criminal activity. For the purposes of this policy, drug related or violent criminal activity will be construed to mean that if a member of the current family has been arrested within the past three-year period. For 2005, the income limits for the Section 8 Program are: 1 person - $21,050. 2 person - $24,100 3 person - $27,100 4 person - $30.100 5 person - $32,500 6 person - $34,900 7 person - $37,300 8 person - $39,750 David S. Oda, CFA Oakwood Build community, not fences I was saddened to read your article in The Oakwood Register that sensationalized the addition of Section 8 housing across Shroyer Road in Kettering. You and the “concerned citizens” who contacted your office about this issue seem to have forgotten something. The people who live in Section 8 housing are human beings. They have hopes and dreams for their families just as we do in Oakwood. Just because someone is living on a limited income does not mean that they are a criminal. For Oakwood residents who are concerned about this issue I have two suggestions: Wouldn’t it be better to welcome our new neighbors instead of criminalizing them before they even move in? Don’t you think that our new neighbors want to live in a neighborhood without crime too? Lt. Keith Benson, as quoted in your article, talks about Neighborhood Watch systems. If Oakwood residents are concerned about crime why not reach out to the residents living in the Section 8 housing and work together in the planning of such a program? And instead of picking up a gun as the resident on Acorn Drive did, I wonder what would happen if concerned citizens picked up the phone and called to inquire about volunteering for one of the many organizations in the Miami Valley working hard to address the root causes of poverty in our community. If those concerned citizens got to know someone living in poverty, they would realize that they actually have much in common. I challenge you to rethink this issue in a positive light – Let’s make this an opportunity to build community, not fences. There are enough issues out there that divide us from our fellow human beings. We don’t need another one. Yasmeen Khan Oakwood Minimal attention paid Thank you for the informative article last week concerning the section 8 housing project under way directly on our eastern border. This project is certain to negatively impact all citizens of Oakwood and Kettering. In conversation with many Oakwood residents, we are unanimously appalled by the absence of appropriate action from our elected city officials. All of us are outraged with this proposal and wonder how a project of this magnitude could evolve to this level with minimal attention or intervention. I assume that the Sugar Camp Project occupied all the efforts of city officials. The recently reported tax windfalls from the Sugar Camp Development will almost certainly be negated by the loss of our property values and increase in security expenses as a result of the adjacent section 8 housing project. We all hope that you and the OR will keep the good citizens of Oakwood alerted as to any developments. Additional reading is found: http://www.mcohio.org/revize/montgomery/Montgomery/home/docs/DMHA_5_15_07_Compatibility_Mode.pdf http://louisville.bizjournals.com/dayton/stories/2007/02/19/story3.html?jst=s_cn_hl Best Regards, Greg Marquart 311 Greenmount Blvd.
August 10, 200717 yr ^ Thanks, I appreciate the backgrounder on the issue. But times change and so do people. The comments about Section 8 and drugs and crime, sad as it is, are woefully true in many cases. You can call the residents of Oakwood elitists all you want but they do have significant amounts of $$$ invested in their homes. At this late stage in my life I can certainly understand the sentiment of not wanting to see a lifetime of work degrade into a cesspool. Before I get slammed here - I am in no way inferrring or implying that ALL welfare, single moms and Section 8 people are bad, worthless, drug addicted, etc. There are certainly many good and deserving people that find themself in that situation. But one cannot escape the demographics of what happens in these neighborhoods that have Section 8 housing. If you want to open your eyes to this, try factfinder.census.gov . This is SUCH a GREAT research tool for everything statistical and demographic. Yeah, I use factfinder quite a bit, and some of the other census donwloads. I am using them right now to do some digging on the decline of Kettering. What's going on is not just section 8. There are a lot of older apartment complexes in suburban Dayton, and there is a housing surplus in the area, so you are seeing poorer people (than what one used to see) moving out of the city into the suburbs. They are moving to Washington Township/Centerville and West Carollton and Miami Township as much as they are moving to Kettering. And suburban people are getting poorer too, if they lost jobs over the past few years. Dayton has lost a lot of jobs, and those people lived somewhere...... So I think what people are seeing, or feeling, is that their suburbs are becoming lower income, which is happening whether or not there is section 8. Those apartments on Shroyer mentioned in the article are already showing up as a lower income area, and you'll see more of this as time goes on. Drexel Dave says you can't buy your way out of social problems. Its pretty easy to do that still if you got the cash. That is what the movement to Springboro and Greene and Miami Countys about, people moving out from the older suburbs, which are seen as tired and the houses too small. So it off to the new suburban frontiers where things are fresh and new
August 10, 200717 yr Back in the 1970s the New York Times did a feature article on an early public housing concept, scattered site housing, that featured Dayton, specifically Centerville. The article dealt with the Chevy Chase development, and the locals reaction to it. Some of the responses was a change in street names so their subdivision streets wouldnt have the same name when they crossed over to the development. Another reaction was a suburban form of white flight, where people sold out and moved to another suburb (maybe to Warren County?) to get away from the public housing. So this has been happening for some time. I think this "section 8" issue is the light bulb going on for a lot of people on the "inner suburb" issue. For me, coming from Chicago, "inner suburb" was places like Berwyn, Cicero, Evanston, Park Ridge, or Oak Park, pretty much developed before WWII. Here in Dayton "inner suburb" means that, but also the subdivisions from the 1950s and maybe the 1960s, which are tougher to market against the new product going up outside of Montgomery County. ****** Here is that apartment district they are talking about near Oakwood
January 4, 200817 yr When all the section 8 Oakwood brouhaha was going on, I started to dig for information on what all the fuss was about? That is when I found about DMHA's plans to tear down Parkside and scatter those displaced people throughout Montgomery County. I saw their plans on where they were putting people, and I remember thinking it was a bit odd that they were shipping a huge chunk of displaced residents from Urban Dayton to rural Germantown??? I don't know if it's a coincidence or not. . . Rash of break-ins occupies police in two townships Jackson Twp. had 17 incidents on Dec. 22, after having hardly any in over a year; German Twp. had 7 or 8 on Dec. 27. By William G. Schmidt Contributing Writer Friday, January 04, 2008 GERMAN TWP., Montgomery County — A rash of recent break-ins has German Twp. and Jackson Twp. police working overtime. "On the 27th (December) we had seven or eight incidents in one day," said German Twp. Police Chief Lew Wilcox. "They went into a couple of barns, stole a truck," he said. "They just created general havoc in the area." ATVs, guns and tools were taken, too. Wilcox said a Yamaha All Terrain Vehicle valued at $1,200 was probably the most expensive item stolen. "The next day, somebody — and we think it was the same group — went up on Route 4 near Germantown-Liberty Road," Wilcox said. A trailer was stolen from behind a house and tools were taken from a garage. http://www.daytondailynews.com/n/content/oh/story/news/local/2008/01/03/ddn010408breakins.html
January 4, 200817 yr I have personal experience with Section 8 housing. When I lived in Kentucky for 5 years, I lived in 3 different neighborhoods. Two of them I had no problems. The third and last neighborhood, I had multiple problems as did some of my neighbors. Guess what was across the street? Section 8 apartments. Now I have been living back up here in Dayton now for the last 5 years and guess where? Two blocks away from the area of Shroyer where these new Section 8 apartments are. For the last 4 years, I have not had any fear or problems...until now. I am seeing all kinds of issues around here. Car break ins, graffiti, broke down cars sitting on the road that never get fixed, thugs just walking around the streets with obviously nothing to do, and every time I pull into the new Speedway gas station around the corner, I feel like someone is going to harass me. It's very simple. Low income people are more likely to steal or commit a crime. Now I'm not talking like low income if you are in college and working at McDonald's, but low income as in you have you are on unemployment half your life, a dead beat that doesn't want to pay bills or work or a drug user that works a part time job just to make enough to get a fix. These are real issues with Section 8 residents. Parkside was about as bad as it got for the City of Dayton and some of these residents got pushed into areas that are much wealthier...and no one expects a problem? Yes, there are some Section 8 people that are ok. But that ratio is lower.
January 4, 200817 yr Ronnie, we must live within a mile of each other. I can say that within the last year or so, there has been an uptick in crime within Oakwood. However, I know Oakwood is really starting to patrol the Shroyer area and has hired additional public safety officers. . . I'm not sure what to make of it all. . . . .
January 4, 200817 yr i live almost at the corner of Dorothy and Shroyer. I have noticed Oakwood patrolling more, but I'm not so sure Kettering has stepped up any? I don't see them anymore than I did before.
January 5, 200817 yr I saw their plans on where they were putting people, and I remember thinking it was a bit odd that they were shipping a huge chunk of displaced residents from Urban Dayton to rural Germantown??? How did you get access to this? I'd be very interested to see these plans. I know DMHA have closed two additional projects, one near Wisconsin Blvd, and another up on the hill off of McCall Ave, so it be interesting to see where these folks were relocated as well as the Parkside residences. I could do sort of a geography of public housing dispersal if I had this info.
January 5, 200817 yr I saw their plans on where they were putting people, and I remember thinking it was a bit odd that they were shipping a huge chunk of displaced residents from Urban Dayton to rural Germantown??? How did you get access to this? I'd be very interested to see these plans. I know DMHA have closed two additional projects, one near Wisconsin Blvd, and another up on the hill off of McCall Ave, so it be interesting to see where these folks were relocated as well as the Parkside residences. I could do sort of a geography of public housing dispersal if I had this info. It was presented at one of the Oakwood meetings, when DMHA came in. . .they had a powerpoint breaking it all down. I don't remember all the specifics, but I do remember they were renovating or had just recently renovated 60...yes 60 units in Germantown to move people into. . . .a far cry from what they were doing in Kettering/Oakwood. There was also another slide breaking down where they were moving too. . .it looked like everyone was getting scattered throughout Montgomery County. They broke it down by zip code and city.. . .but I remember seeing Washington Twp, Kettering, West Carollton, Clayton, Vandalia, Huber Heights.. . .and of course Oakwood and Germantown. There was a lot of talk from the DMHA people about how tearing Parkisde down and scattering those people in other areas would give them the opportunity to assimilate and in the end would reduce overall crime, b/c they would now have a better life and be out of that environment. Hmmmmmmmm
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