The Boston Globe bemoans the disappearance of the city's dive bars.  Again, the term "dive bar" simply means a bar to anyone who grew up in a real neighborhood where the dads went to these places and sometimes brought you along.  We had our end-of-year parties for our little league teams in bars that would now be called "dive bars". 

 

http://www.bostonglobe.com/lifestyle/style/2016/02/17/what-killing-boston-dive-bars/ooEgqyF3LqnPQpCIadnKRL/story.html?s_campaign=email_BG_TodaysHeadline&s_campaign=

 

Meanwhile in Ohio, we're keeping it real.  Cincinnati is lucky to still have some real bars in the downtown and Clifton areas. 

 

 

Yeah, Ohio still has real dive bars, and it's a huge contrast from where I live. It's pretty hilarious in the Bay to see people call bars with $10+ drinks "dive bars." When I think dive bar, I think East Toledo, not San Francisco. But San Francisco actually still has about a dozen real dive bars left (they must own the buildings since they've not been evicted yet). Oakland has practically nothing. Ironically, North Beach and Nob Hill are where these real SF dive bars are located. These are two of the wealthiest neighborhoods on earth. SF has a couple of urban core bars still charging $5 for a pint of Anchor Steam. Oakland is really lacking in these kinds of places since it's a city trying to erase its history, and it just doesn't have many long-standing businesses (riots continually cause business turnover). My neighborhood only has high end bars, and we still average about six random murders a year in a 25-block area. A random person can get hit by a stray bullet right outside of a bar charging $15 for a drink. It's one of the many ironies of Oakland's hyper-wealthy nightlife scene:

 

Musician slain by stray bullet after Oakland gig

By Henry K. Lee Updated 4:46 pm, Monday, April 6, 2015

http://www.sfgate.com/crime/article/Loved-ones-mourn-musician-killed-by-stray-bullet-6182053.php

 

Middle class dive bar types tend to be scared of Oakland's urban core while the 1% hipster kids love it. Talking to the 1% hipsters, I get the impression they feel cops will protect them and their property before they'll protect what's left of middle class Oakland. "I never worry about riots or random shootings since I live in a rich neighborhood" is the standard attitude of Oakland millionaires my age. Sadly, I think they're right. Police generally avoid middle class neighborhoods in Oakland. Dive bars cater to the middle class, and due to insane crime levels in Oakland's middle class areas, there are virtually no bars in those neighborhoods. You can walk over a mile in West Oakland and East Oakland and not see a single bar. That's remarkable considering Oakland's density and booming population. These are neighborhoods where home values have quadrupled since 2012, and not a single new business has opened. Weirdly, there aren't even ironic dive bars in Oakland (just one old Midwestern-ish dive left called Radio). The Oakland hipster scene pretty much jumped over that entire phase of fake dive bars that were popular in the SF Mission District, and went all-in on more luxurious stuff. The theory was if Downtown/Uptown Oakland only focused on the most expensive types of venues, it would magically reduce crime or something. It obviously failed, but Oakland did end up with the top cocktail bars in the East Bay, and it also has the best beer bars in the entire Bay Area (better than SF beer bars). Where it's sorely lacking is in nightclubs, and I don't think that will change since big nightclubs only work in safe cities like San Francisco. Oakland has way too much crime for real nightclubs to work.

 

A good example of these early 1% hipster bars is the ultra high-end Uptown Oakland staple, Make Westing. It always was popular with hipsters, but the bar owners immediately went for the top of the market. Every Oakland hipster bar since then has followed this model. This is a huge contrast from Brooklyn where the nightlife scene is varied and there are still fake dive bars. Oakland is much, much higher end than Brooklyn while also being much, much more dangerous. It's a remarkable juxtaposition. By being the wealthiest city in the world with such high crime rates, Oakland's nightlife has taken on a pretty unique form. Bars also have plans in place for riots and board up windows while stating tentative re-open dates. The bars that survive the riots have adapted to a model where they can shut down for weeks on end. Obviously a middle class bar can't survive that. The riots may also be pushing bars and restaurants to charge as much possible since they need to make money during the busy times knowing a riot may kill business for weeks. Hence Oakland has nothing left catering to the middle class.

 

*The death of the middle class will lead to the death of the dive bar. Oakland is proof of this, but thankfully, this is a West Coast trend I don't see spreading to Ohio any time soon. I went out in Downtown Toledo for Christmas, and it was still gritty as hell with an extremely diverse crowd of people- White, Black, Latino, Arab, working class, dressed up, casual, young, old, rich (by Toledo standards), poor, etc. I would never in a million years see that kind of mixed crowd at an Oakland or San Francisco venue. This is actually the greatest strength of states like Ohio and Michigan. I very much sense more class mixing in that part of the country. The Great Lakes region is very unique. It's refreshing to see a part of America so stuck in the past that there is still a sizable middle class!

 

Cities like Toledo (gritty as all hell), Cleveland, and Cincinnati are going to have working class dive bars for a long, long time. Ohio and Michigan could end up as the last American states with a sizable middle class. The reason is simply the cheap housing prices. I'd say Ohio's middle class has at least 20 years left in it, and there will never be any hyper-gentrification in Ohio. These articles coming from Boston, New York City, San Francisco, Oakland, DC, and Seattle do not apply to Ohio. Even articles coming from middle class Chicago don't apply to Ohio since despite the cultural similarities, Chicago is operating on a different wavelength (Chicago competes with Toronto and New York City to a lesser extent).

 

If ranking the nation's top dive bars, I think Cleveland, Toledo, and Cincinnati would rank pretty high. Dive bars seemed to have flourished most in cities with lots of manufacturing and shipping. Probably the best surviving pre-WW2 dive bars are in those three cities I mentioned above (throw Buffalo in too). What would people say are the top dive bars in Ohio?

 

*And also, someone should do photo tours of them. People in wealthy markets like the Bay would eat it up. The difference between a fake dive bar and a real dive bar basically comes down to price (Ohio likely has no fake dive bars when compared to a place like San Francisco). A dive bar charging $10 a drink is a fake dive bar. A dive bar charging $5 a drink is a real dive bar. One is catering to a wealthier crowd. One is catering to a middle class crowd. Fake dive bars in the SF Mission District always catered to the 1%. When an expensive bar in one of the world's most expensive neighborhoods decorates itself as a "dive," that's a fake dive bar. The Mission's Latin American Club, which is ironically the whitest bar in San Francisco, is the gold standard of fake dive bars. They market themselves this way and the tech industry loves it. They also charge $12 a drink. Butter is another classic fake dive bar in San Francisco. San Francisco had an entire wave of fake dive bars ironically emulating real America. These bars are designed to make fun of places like Ohio. Toronto has some of these "real America" themed fake dive bars too, but they're obviously less offensive since Canadians are nicer people. You're not going to see this in Ohio because it would be like Ohio making fun of itself.

 

We barely have any real dive bars left, and people would be fascinated by Ohio's dive bar scene. It would be like a time machine to a completely different era.

This practice is called a "buyback".  It was very common in New York City back when I spent lots of time in bars there.  Happily, I got my share of buybacks.  Typically, a regular customer get 1 free drink after purchasing two.  I have never seen this practice anywhere else, although I am not a bar regular anywhere but in Boston now, and Boston is the kid of place where this practice would be forbidden.  :-(

 

That's happened to me in NYC on several occasions as well. The bartender says "this one's on me" and you still tip them for it.

 

Standard in SF too if you have a friend working at the bar, or female bartender thinks you're cute.

Even articles coming from middle class Chicago don't apply to Ohio since despite the cultural similarities, Chicago is operating on a different wavelength (Chicago competes with Toronto and New York City to a lesser extent).

 

Chicago is starting to loose a few of its fake (or converted real ones run by polish people) dive bars in Wicker Park, the thing is that Chicago is far enough behind San Francisco that there are still PLENTY of them around.  I'd argue that Chicago has way more of a dive bar focus than Cincinnati does even, something about the upper midwest and its more working class orientation that creates this.  Plus all those fake dives in Wicker are now moving to Logan and there are waaay more neighborhoods to conquer before Chicago reaches a SF level gentrification crisis.  Not only that but policies IMO are starting to align such that we are going to work to prevent this from happen by densifying areas around transit station and growing the skyscraper district downtown.

 

See: http://www.metroplanning.org/work/project/30/subpage/4?utm_source=%2ftod-ordinance&utm_medium=web&utm_campaign=redirect

 

and: http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/politics/ct-rahm-emanuel-neighborhood-development-20160217-story.html

 

The fruit of this is a bazillion mid rise buildings with staggered windows, and while I don't like the design I like the policy.

 

and there will never be any hyper-gentrification in Ohio.

 

The south part of OTR is an example of it right now believe it or not, though its artificially happening due to the presence of 3CDC do a streetview of Vine Street from Central to Liberty street to see what I'm talking about (and compare between 2007 view and 2015).  I think it could happen in Cincinnati or Columbus just not on the scale or pace of SF (despite what the absolutely baffled Cincinnatians say who are convinced the city with its one slice of this is on the verge of a major affordability crisis - they just aren't used to things going up in value so fast and can't comprehend it :P).  Cincinnati's biggest hurtle is not economy (its regionally a much better performer than northern Ohio) but culture - its culture is too suburban/conservative to really embrace lifestyle changes that come with urban living though with shifts that have been happening lately keep watching it, you may be surprised by the results - in some ways its healthier than Chicago with stronger schools and less corruption it just needs to embrace the urbanitiy it has, build transit to connect it, and accept outsiders a bit more to really shoot for the stars.

 

Columbus is way more progressive, but it doesn't have the level of existing urbanism that Cincinnati has, a lot more of its development is going to be infill/new construction in deadzones which a lot of time are surprisingly close to the center city. Because of this I doubt it would reach crisis levels anytime soon.  Columbus always picks up on cultural trends faster than most of the rest of the midwest, a new trend takes hold in Chicago, in a few years it will hit Columbus then several years later wind up elsewhere in the midwest...

 

 

Ironically, one of the more venerable noted "dives" in Bedford, the Moonglow, shut down during the last few months.  I recall us joking that we should stop there on our crawl for my brother's 21st birthday, and the place was already old then (1988).

 

The bar business has shrunk, for reasons ranging from DUI enforcement to the economy to the 'net to the smoking ban.  There's fewer places, and they are open fewer hours.

I get buybacks regularly at all manner of bars and restaurants downtown, mostly upscale and not of the dive bar variety. And zero of them are because the bartender thinks I'm cute. Several are happily married and have kids and we talk about parenting. Others are gay males. Some are straight females. But none of them are giving me a buyback because they think I'm hot. And they're not personal friends, either. I am a regular patron supporting their business and they reward my patronage occasionally (not always) this way.

 

I've had buybacks at places where I've been a regular patron all over Cleveland, from dive bars to upscale joints, across the 20-plus years I've lived here.

^ yeah they are referred to as buybacks in newer or should i say more nouveau or upscale kinds of bars. otherwise, actually they aren't called buybacks in old nyc bars, its called the knock. they knock on the bar or put an upside down shot glass on it in front of you. thats your free drink when you want it. you can get one after between 2-4 drinks if you are on point with your bartender in certain joints. i've had it in ohio, but mostly there they just tend to shade the total bill for you. "aww just gimme $10." like that. unfortunately video cameras are ruining all this kind of old fashioned bar stool interaction.

I don't like these ambiguous free beer situations.  I prefer to just keep paying $1.25 for one Miller High Life after another. 

^ yeah they are referred to as buybacks in newer or should i say more nouveau or upscale kinds of bars. otherwise, actually they aren't called buybacks in old nyc bars, its called the knock. they knock on the bar or put an upside down shot glass on it in front of you. thats your free drink when you want it. you can get one after between 2-4 drinks if you are on point with your bartender in certain joints. i've had it in ohio, but mostly there they just tend to shade the total bill for you. "aww just gimme $10." like that. unfortunately video cameras are ruining all this kind of old fashioned bar stool interaction.

 

Perhaps, but a lot of that is because state liquor laws track sales and you'd be amazed how much "shrinkage" happens due to that sort of thing. 

 

It started because of taxes but the bar owners have realized the numbers as well at this point.

 

Plus it's easier to catch problem customers being problems.

The Union in Athens re-opens for business on Wednesday night:

http://www.athensnews.com/news/local/famous-dive-bar-back-in-action/article_34f92720-2046-11e6-939a-6330367238e0.html

 

Sadly I cannot be there because I'm in a wedding party two states away. 

The Union is staging the 20th Blackoutfest in July.  There wasn't a 19th because of the fire.  Usually this is held in April and is an excuse for a lot of expats to come back and visit town.

 

The New Bomb Turks are no joke and will be an awesome headliner on Saturday. 

 

^new bomb turks? now there is a blast from the past. who knew they are still around.

 

^ yeah they are referred to as buybacks in newer or should i say more nouveau or upscale kinds of bars. otherwise, actually they aren't called buybacks in old nyc bars, its called the knock. they knock on the bar or put an upside down shot glass on it in front of you. thats your free drink when you want it. you can get one after between 2-4 drinks if you are on point with your bartender in certain joints. i've had it in ohio, but mostly there they just tend to shade the total bill for you. "aww just gimme $10." like that. unfortunately video cameras are ruining all this kind of old fashioned bar stool interaction.

 

 

Perhaps, but a lot of that is because state liquor laws track sales and you'd be amazed how much "shrinkage" happens due to that sort of thing. 

 

It started because of taxes but the bar owners have realized the numbers as well at this point.

 

Plus it's easier to catch problem customers being problems.

 

 

 

i dont think the knock/buyback or whatever has anything to do with taxes. the bars seem to treat it more like an unadvertized happy hour type special thats at the whim of the barkeep, like buy three get one free. maybe state liquor has cracked down on it somehow in ohio though. its more disappearing around ny due to hipster yuppies buying up the old school bars and skyrocketing real estate and alcohol prices. the $10 a beer craft beer establishment is not doing the knock lol.

^new bomb turks? now there is a blast from the past. who knew they are still around.

 

One of my favorite band names due to its origins lol.

 

I bet they do an explosive cover of Volare.  But there's a chance it stinks.

Are there any dance clubs in the Cincinnati area which cater to the 30+ professional crowd?

^new bomb turks? now there is a blast from the past. who knew they are still around.

 

 

They're still playing pretty regularly (10-20 dates per year), including in Europe.  They appear to go there every year or every other year. 

^new bomb turks? now there is a blast from the past. who knew they are still around.

 

 

They're still playing pretty regularly (10-20 dates per year), including in Europe.  They appear to go there every year or every other year. 

 

So can a band have that trip (to Europe) be a bushiness expense, and write it off on their taxes?

It's probably a loss. But if you consistently lose money with these things and try to claim them over and over the IRS will declare it a "hobby".

It's probably a loss. But if you consistently lose money with these things and try to claim them over and over the IRS will declare it a "hobby".

 

I know a guy who just toured as a hired player for a month in Europe...he was paid $500 cash (I didn't ask him if it was U.S. or Euros -- or actually pounds since it was an English band) per week and the dude in charge covered all hotel and food expenses. 

 

As for entire bands on tour...obviously you want to rig it so that you show a loss, like how no movie has ever made money in the history of movie making. 

 

 

 

What is the oldest still-operating bar in the state of Ohio?

^Arnolds?

 

this says Ye Olde Trail Tavern in Yellow Springs (1848). Not sure your definition on oldest if you count bars that closed at any point or not. Also not sure on their definition of oldest. I would be sad if a place with such a terrible name was actually the state's oldest.

 

https://www.thrillist.com/travel/nation/america-s-oldest-bars-the-oldest-bar-in-all-50-us-states-and-washington-dc

I like the passive-aggressive "Who says Ohio doesn’t have any redeeming qualities?" Thrillist threw at the end of the blurb...

this says Ye Olde Trail Tavern in Yellow Springs (1848). Not sure your definition on oldest if you count bars that closed at any point or not. Also not sure on their definition of oldest. I would be sad if a place with such a terrible name was actually the state's oldest.

 

https://www.thrillist.com/travel/nation/america-s-oldest-bars-the-oldest-bar-in-all-50-us-states-and-washington-dc

 

Why is Ye Olde Trail Tavern a terrible name?

this says Ye Olde Trail Tavern in Yellow Springs (1848). Not sure your definition on oldest if you count bars that closed at any point or not. Also not sure on their definition of oldest. I would be sad if a place with such a terrible name was actually the state's oldest.

 

https://www.thrillist.com/travel/nation/america-s-oldest-bars-the-oldest-bar-in-all-50-us-states-and-washington-dc

 

Why is Ye Olde Trail Tavern a terrible name?

 

...because developers and realtors ruined 'Ye olde' and turned it into a gimmick. I can't even picture people in the 1800s saying things like, "Here ye, here ye." It probably wasn't called that in the 1800s because it wasn't yet the old tavern that it now is. I bet locals just call it Trail Tavern.

 

 

Does anyone know anything about Crosskeys Tavern in Chillicothe?

 

 

 

According to legend:

 

This Irish tavern dates back to 1972 and is believed to be haunted by a playful ghost named Harold. He enjoys turning the lights on and off, moving objects, breaking glasses, and making whispering and footstep sounds in the basement. People believe Harold may be the ghost of a man who was killed behind the building or that he is somehow connected to a series of old underground tunnels beneath the town.

http://www.ohiohauntedhouses.com/real-haunt/crosskeys-tavern.html

 

Those are some pretty bold claims. That sounds like 'Bobby Mackey's Music World" status. I've been in Crosskeys and didn't feel any creepy vibes despite how old the building is. Although, the outside definitely gives the impression it could be haunted; it has that NOLA French Quarter vibe going for it. I looked it up on YouTube, expecting there to be an episode of Ghost Adventures taking place there but I couldn't find anything at all regarding it being haunted. I wonder if some bars make up tales of the building being haunted and glasses flying across the room, to attract tourists. Or maybe the bartenders are the ones making it up, claiming the ghost is responsible for a large amount of the broken stemware and missing liquor inventory, lol.

 

I'm veering off topic but I wasn't aware of the above-mentioned network of underground tunnels in Chillicothe. I wonder what that's about. It used to be Ohio's capital and for a city of approx. 22k people, it actually has a quite extraordinary, relatively big and dense downtown with beautiful Italianate architecture and fancy government buildings, because of that. It's probably the smallest Ohio town with a big city feel to it. I'm glad Columbus ultimately became the capital. There's too many geographic constraints beyond the dense basin of Chillicothe and I'd honestly rather see the boring landscape of the Columbus area become gridded and built-up than the beautiful Appalachian mountains surrounding the Chillicothe basin, turn into an urban cluster-f*ck akin to Cincinnati. Not that I don't love and appreciate the charm of Cincinnati; I'm just saying it's probably for the best that it panned out the way it did.

Olde English often used "y" instead of "th", so it would actually be pronounced the same as "The Old Trail Tavern". But yeah, I cringe when suburban developments use Olde English spelling on things that were clearly built in the early 2000s

Oh...really?! Huh. I didn't know that. That's interesting. Now that you mention that, it seems pretty intuitive to just figure that out as you're reading it but I apparently never put that together.

 

You know what annoys me about olde English? Reading old texts from back when their printed letter 'S' looked like an F. I couldn't get used to it, for the life of me, after reading dozens of pages. It tripped me up every time and I couldn't even manage to get used to it after a while.

Old English ‘y’ was used for the letter ‘thorn’ which was pronounced ‘th’ and looked like a ‘p’, but with the rounded part central to the vertical stem, not at the top. Early typesetting machines came from Germany where the letter wasn’t used. So early printers used the ‘y’ instead which was and remains, a relatively infrequently used letter, especially at the start of a word and it kind of looked like the old ‘thorn’ letter.

this says Ye Olde Trail Tavern in Yellow Springs (1848). Not sure your definition on oldest if you count bars that closed at any point or not. Also not sure on their definition of oldest. I would be sad if a place with such a terrible name was actually the state's oldest.

 

https://www.thrillist.com/travel/nation/america-s-oldest-bars-the-oldest-bar-in-all-50-us-states-and-washington-dc

 

Why is Ye Olde Trail Tavern a terrible name?

 

ha yeah. of course nobody calls it that. its just the trails tavern. great place.

I've seen some bars talking about their 84th anniversary this year, and I'm thinking there is a rather obvious reason for that number. 

A new video is out on The Union in Athens, which burnt down in 2014 but reopened in 2016. 

 

Whoever did this did a great job. 

 

 

 

Tuesday is open mike nite at Local Tavern's Fish Bar in Painesville if anyone is so inclined?    http://www.mariapetti.com/open-mic-night

 

 

 

 

Wow.  This photo surfaced today on the Old Photos of Cincinnati Facebook group.  My family moved very close to this place when I was 11 or 12 and we passed by it in the car many times.  It was torn down in 2003. 

 

 

 

Yikes.

I wonder if you could have rented "rooms by the hour" in that weird double-wide they stuck on the roof. 

7 minutes ago, BigDipper 80 said:

I wonder if you could have rented "rooms by the hour" in that weird double-wide they stuck on the roof. 

 

It never occurred to me that the place might be an Inn, despite it being called the Flicker Inn. 

 

Every time you passed by the place you couldn't help but look over suspiciously.  This was just one of about a half dozen hardcore biker bars in a 1-2 mile radius.  These places still gave off the air of being dangerous as hell in the 80s, but by the 90s it was gently shifting to the "friendly" 50+ year-old biker culture that exists now.  

 

I remember seeing enormous biker gangs in the 80s - like 30+ people traveling in packs.  Everyone called them "the bees" because they were like a swarm of bees.  At the time the guys were all ages 20-40 at the most.  

 

 

Cincinnati's oldest bar under new ownership:

 https://www.citybeat.com/arts-culture/blog/21105616/legendary-cincinnati-bar-arnolds-is-switching-ownership-in-2020-but-its-staying-in-the-family

 

The bar's current owner is passing it down to her son and his wife.  Hopefully the place doesn't change!  

Jesus.  It was rough out there tonight, new year's. 

 

 

 

 

Dayton’s legendary Century Bar just finished up it’s finally night in its old location. Luckily it’s just moving to a larger space right next door and should be up and running soon.

^ my dayton spouse is very worried about this.

 

but they are moving the old bar over, so it should be fine.

My sources tell me that the owner of Murphy's Pub in Clifton Heights died during the shut-down.  Let's hope that somebody is able to reopen the place. 

 

^ plz tell me they serve murphys stout on tap there? a shame to let a gimmee like that get by them.

2 minutes ago, mrnyc said:

^ plz tell me they serve murphys stout on tap there? a shame to let a gimmee like that get by them.

 

I don't think so. I have never seen Murphy's anywhere in Ohio, which for me is Cincinnati, Columbus, and Athens. 

 

 

its hard to find, but i see they have murphys stout at bobs bar in columbus and some mini chain called pies and pints around cincinnati.

 

you should try it -- for industrial stout its better than guinness.

 

i dk about cle area anymore, but my college dorm friend's family is a big distributer and they used to sell it around akron/canton. looks like they still do:

 

https://www.esberbeverage.com/beer/murphys-stout

I had Murphy's regularly on the east coast, but that was 20 years ago.  I hadn't thought about it in a long time until I was on a zoom call with some guy from Scotland and I did a little 3-4 minute riff on the Guiness and Irish Pub push into the U.S. in the late 1990s.  

UPDATE: Murphy's will reopen on Memorial Day, 5/25.  The place had two owners - only one of them died. 

 

UPDATE: The Greenwich Tavern, which closed suddenly in August or September of 2019, has plans to reopen under the previous ownership.  I was told that they were forced to close due to not paying "their bills". 

On 5/15/2020 at 2:41 PM, jmecklenborg said:

I had Murphy's regularly on the east coast, but that was 20 years ago.  I hadn't thought about it in a long time until I was on a zoom call with some guy from Scotland and I did a little 3-4 minute riff on the Guiness and Irish Pub push into the U.S. in the late 1990s.  

 

 

that was back when they ruined guinness by chilling it. 

 

but they were right sales went up.

 

also, i dont think scotland guys would appreciate that topic.

 

they have their own beers and scene and the usual rivalry with the other parts of england.

 

 

a nice travel blurb about ohio's oldest bar, the trails tavern in yellow springs:

 

https://www.onlyinyourstate.com/ohio/oldest-bar-fascinating-history-oh/

Daniel's Pub in Cincinnati has announced that they're closing permanently. 

 

Athens RIP:

 

Using Bart Simpson to advertise a bar... TSK... TSK...

A source tells me that a 23 year-old female inherited a lot of money and now owns Uncle Woody's next to UC:
https://www.yelp.com/biz/uncle-woodys-cincinnati