As an avid reader of this forum, I have a concern about the posting of copyrighted articles.  Are the forum participants getting permission to post the full artcicles from the Cincinnati Enquirer, Business Courier, ect.  I would hate for one of these papers to shut the forum down because of copyright violations.  It other cities, participants post the links to the articles in the forum.

 

I could see the Business Courier having a fit if they new articles were posted on Friday from the paper when only those with subscriptions are to have full access to reading them.

 

I just want this forum to continue without any worries about operating legally.

Most if not all of the forumers here know to clearly post the author of the articles along with the original link to the actual article.  Probably 95 percent of all articles posted here are available to the general public at no cost via the original authors, which leads me to believe we will never have any copyright issues.  The site has been online for over 3 and a half years with not a single issue to date.

If someone knows an author would not allow their article to be posted without their permission, they will obtain the permission before posting the article/photos here.

I do this with the Biz Courier articles (and I'm guessing that is why you posted this)...but my train of thought is that I am a paid subscriber.  I correctly cite everything, do not pawn it off as my own work, link everything back to the main source and so on.

 

I'm not reposting the entire publication...nor is the entire publication even put in the online edition.  I would be ticked if they had a problem with me doing so, and would most likely drop my subscription.

 

On top of all that...the majority of revenue for publications like this comes from advertisements and what not.  If I'm preventing them from getting another 3 subscribers, then that is really just a drop in the bucket.  But this could also be said for the Enquirer...they do not charge, but they do archive their articles and then charge you to see older ones.  If those are posted on here...that would equate to potential lost business for them.

 

IDK, I guess if someone really wanted to have a fit about it they could go right on ahead.  But I really don't see an issue...my thoughts could obviously differ from others though.  If it's a problem that I post Biz Journals (Print Edition) stories on here I can stop.  Just tell me if I am close to crossing that infamous line.

It's common ethics to cite your source for anything. I would think it would promote their site more than deter people from it, therefore a complaint would be nonsense unless a source wasn't cited. Otherwise, you can't stop UrbanOhio!!!

I don't know how the copyright works, but I know my husband and I decided to buy a subscription to the Business Courier after reading some of their articles posted here.

I've been told to remove content from my old blog, but struck a compromise with a brief excerpt and a link to the original article. This is the general rule I'm familiar with; it protects authors while still allowing their original work to be reviewed and cited.

 

This may answer a few questions: http://mason.gmu.edu/~montecin/copyright-internet.htm, though, not to many (including mine) liking.

 

I think Urbanohio has escaped the wrath of the Dispatches and Business Couriers and PDs due to its relatively meager readership. Once our membership crests the 2,000,000-range, though, watch out.

 

 

I can't believe the papers of Ohio don't know about this forum.

I think that, if they were going to squawk, they would have done so by now.

Do they know about UO? Perhaps. Do they consider us competition? Probably not.

I can almost guarantee they know about us. All articles posted include the url of the original publication which will show the referal when users click on it.

It's not that huge of an issue, unless one takes to bashing a newspaper over and over again and they catch wind. Therefore, we must plaster UrbanOhio with heaps of praise towards the Enquirer. The holy grail of newspapers. Let us pray for their altruistic attitude.

 

In all seriousness, UrbanPlanet has a very, very strict policy on this. They supposedly had some "infractions" (but was very, very vague about it), so you really can't even snip a sentence for a quote without ban-nation. When I post there, I read the article and copy it over in form, but change around the wording and etc. to condense the text and to go around the "copyright" issue. Someone here (I think Grasscat) asked why some of my articles I posted here were not direct copies of news articles, as some were copies of posts I made at UrbanPlanet -- the reason is ^^.

 

In short, I don't think its anything to worry about. Perhaps in the future, posters should consider rewriting the articles in their own prose and text (doesn't have to be anything dramatic).

I admit, I don't always post the links to the source of articles - but I will do my best to include it for now on. The problem is with the PD - the links to their articles die after a month or so, so it doesn't matter.

^You shouldn't be to blame for their incompetance.  There are other places that have the same thing...I just post it and don't worry about their silly url games.

I guess I'm glad that no papers are enforcing copyright policies against us, because I'd be in prison for a very, very long time.

oh, god can you imagine the court papers and counts of infringement,

 

the f-ing document would be 17,000 counts. (arbitrary number that is less than your total posts)

I bet I could plead it down to about 150-200 counts, which is about the number of newspapers I monitored!

Perhaps we should simply post the links to the articles and urge others to do so?  This way the newspaper websites get the hits from readers. 

 

What say you?

It would take me much less time to post a story that way, but it would sort of take away some of the appeal of UrbanOhio (in my mind).

I agree - but is this going to lead to additional duties for the moderators? Will there be a need to ban people who do not cite correctly? Is this person going to be the HEIC (editor)?

 

Regardless, I'm already doing it.

 

I think he was suggesting posting ONLY the links to the stories...that is the only way to guarantee that people will travel to the site and give it a hit.  Any clarification noozer?

I wouldn't agree with that. I post a link to the article, and a rewritten summary on the article. That way, in case the news article expires, there will be a tangible copy in form.

Rando.... that's exactly what I was proposing.  But I think Seicer makers a good point.

I often use aticles posted on Urban Ohio to research information for articles I write for my blog.  Links to a majority of papers expire after a certain period of time, which would make that impossible for me.

 

I agree that we should probably iron out a policy, though.

it seems like we can develop a clear flow chart:

 

Is the article or information being posted copyrighted?

    NO: Post away, but consider documenting source for others to find.

    YES: What are the copyright limitations? source citing?  fair use?   additionally, some forms of copyright adopt the "open source" idea, as long as there is attribution or it isn't used for profit.

 

Fair Use link: http://www.copyright.gov/fls/fl102.html

 

"Section 107 contains a list of the various purposes for which the reproduction of a particular work may be considered “fair,” such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching, scholarship, and research. Section 107 also sets out four factors to be considered in determining whether or not a particular use is fair:

 

1. the purpose and character of the use, including whether such use is of commercial nature or is for nonprofit educational purposes;

 

2. the nature of the copyrighted work;

 

3. amount and substantiality of the portion used in relation to the copyrighted work as a whole; and

 

4. the effect of the use upon the potential market for or value of the copyrighted work.

 

 

so, it seems a strong argument can be made that articles posted on this site fall under the "fair use" provision of section 107, as much of what is done is criticism and comment of copyrighted materials.  now if a particular owner of a copyrighted posted material complains, then it would be up to the moderators to either challenge the posting based on fair use (similar to what youtube does when a copyrighted work is posted).  Ultimately, it is up to the copyright holder to enforce the copyright. 

 

Well done.

 

I like that answer and will adhere to it.

The only issue that might come up that I can think of are the Google ads. But then again, I use Firefox and the ads don't show up.

"1. the purpose and character of the use, including whether such use is of commercial nature or is for nonprofit educational purposes"

 

As long as UrbanOhio is a non-profit web-site, it would fall under Section 107. I see no reason why the posting of articles would not fall under that. Great find!

^Just because you're not making any money doesn't mean you're a non-profit. In order for the non-profit argument to be airtight, UO would probably need 501c3 status.

 

But ultimately, it IS up to the copyright holder to see that their work is protected.

AP Articles may soon be offlimits: URL

 

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Interview: Tom Curley, CEO, Associated Press; Portals, Local Content—‘The Mother of all Battles’

By Joseph Weisenthal - Wed 05 Dec 2007 09:00 AM PST

 

In a speech last month, AP CEO Tom Curley declared that news is a growth industry and that it was high time to kick ‘despair’ to the curb. At the same time, he seemingly despaired about the balance of power that exists online, between the portals and the creators of original content. The solution: fairer deals to ensure that creators aren’t giving away the house, along with a willingness to adapt to the changing ways readers consume the news.

 

Last week, Curley spoke out again, this time as part of a consortium seeking changes from search engines. I interviewed him later that day about a range on subjects, including how to interpret that first speech, the role of the AP, and what it can do to help its 1,500 member newspapers profit from the transition to digital. One thing is clear: Curley has taken his ‘do not despair’ maxim to heart: “We believe that breaking news is worth more these days than it ever was. So breaking news is a premium business.”

 

Still he’s pragmatic, knowing that nobody will simply start handing the AP money. Even if breaking news is growing more valuable all the time, the game is to adapt and capture that value: “I think there are a couple of clear trends. One is that you really have to embrace the web 2.0 free distribution that goes beyond a site; I’ve been saying that for years. The other aspect is that everybody’s business model is in a different place… and there needs to be a lot of experimentation and a lot of innovation on these business models… pretty clearly, ad targeting and CPM (cost per thousand) revenue streams around behavioral advertising have a lot of appeal… when you’re an AP without any footprint in the advertising world, we need to get some tools or some associations. Where I’m coming from is that we must go forward with Web 2.0—all aspects of it—which is that our content should float. It should go where people want it, and we should get compensated for it and the way to [get] compensation is different than the way it’s been for 162 years.” Much more after the jump.

 

-- Portal deals: One way the AP is adapting is by making deals directly with the portals, such as the recent agreement with Google (NSDQ: GOOG) that came under some criticism: ”We’ve monitored the traffic pretty carefully and it’s not affecting anybody’s world.… I think we’re over the first blush of worries, if not criticism, from late August.”

 

But deals with Google and Yahoo (NSDQ: YHOO) to furnish national and international content are secondary to what Curley calls “the mother of all battles”—local content. Here is where the AP believes it can offer newspapers a significant leg up, as the major portals attempt to invade that turf: ”If you’re running one of these local papers, you want to be the portal for the area—you want to be the gateway to the important content that people value in a particular area. We can do that pretty well, and actually, with our new database approach and the new things that we’re offering, people will have access to all the breaking news content within AP for the first time.”

 

-- AP as local news aggregator: This new approach is based on AP’s new “digital cooperative,” an attempt to facilitate better horizontal news sharing between members via the establishment of common technological standards, such as the new search exclusion protocols unveiled last week: “If they join the digital cooperative and participate in the news map, the metadata, the fingerprinting, the RSS feeds and the exclusion protocols… yeah, then we think we would be able to be a large aggregator and provide a valuable service.” The intended result is a richer experience for readers and fresh profit opportunities for papers: “The joy is not in searching, the joy is finding the content that you want. Well, we think we can make that much better and also that sets up a lot of possibilities in terms of revenue, especially around behavioral advertising.” For example, an article can be identified as referring to a flood in New Jersey or a flood in Bangladesh. Fifty papers are participating in the program already, and the AP will be offering a 5 percent rebate to participants in hopes of ramping towards 3,600 over the next year.

 

-- The changing AP structure: Curley compared this to AP’s old structure, which hindered sharing between papers: “[Previously] we organized our content around state lines. The only way to get content from another state was to purchase it by another wire… We used to be one way: we threw a whole lot of stuff at them. In the new world, they [the papers] can program and get it, determine what they want, and they can do it by desk—a sports desk can operate differently from a national desk, etc. That’s how we expect to be more relevant.” (AP said this week that it is changing some of the editorial structurel; details at NYT.)

 

-- Proper use of AP content: ”If you want our content, we expect to be paid for it … this nonsense that you can just take the first paragraph or use the picture small doesn’t really fly with us. People die trying to take those pictures.” The co-op’s only solution, in many instances, is to file cease & desists followed by lawsuits, although Curley acknowledged that this is only marginally useful. In the Moreoever case, it was deemed worthwhile, since they “were so egregious.” The pending lawsuit kept Curley from a detailed discussion.

 

-- Yahoo consortium: At the moment, AP isn’t involved, but it could be if it became more about content going forward. “We need at AP to be prepared for these things—we want to enable them to do business the way they want; we don’t want to get in the way of it.”

 

-- Changing news consumption patterns: I asked about my sense that “sophisticated newsreaders” might spend a little time getting the basic facts of a story from a wire story, but then get the majority of value from vertical news sites or blogs with in-depth expertise. Curley would have none of that: ”The truly sophisticated understand: an accurate source and timely source of content is more valuable today than ever, given all the nonsense that’s out there electronically… you may spend more time on something else that was related to the original break, but it’s like being a little bit pregnant—where was the news and who can you trust? And more and more, hopefully the answer is AP.”

I guess I'm glad that no papers are enforcing copyright policies against us, because I'd be in prison for a very, very long time.

 

So how do you look in prison orange? :?

 

Hopefully MTS hasn't posted any copyrighted info, because I'm pretty sure prison jumpsuit couture isn't available at Barney's...

^I'm not so sure. I think Yohji Yamamoto did that a couple of years ago (But now it would be so passé).