Thanks for the cost info on Millenium Park!  That gives some idea of scope.  I think they could still do something on a smaller scale that would draw people to the park.  I think that the plan is just plain uninventive.  Something that could soften the street edge and pull people into the park rather than building up straight line barriers all around the park. 

1.  That rendering is very old. At least six years old.

 

2.  Am I the only one who sees the 'interactive' fountain in the middle of the park?!?!? It looks just like the ones in Atlanta and Celebration (by Disney in Orlando).

I respect the more detailed critiques of the planning / design experts on the board. From a lay person perspective (ie. the guy that will likely sit on a bench and eat his lunch there and people watch), I think it's fine. It's not an earth shattering design, but it's open, gives me a mix of lawn and trees to relax in, and it's a much needed patch of green in an area that otherwise feels encapsulated. I wouldn't mind seeing new designs, but if this is what ultimately gets put in, I'll be happy.

 

Besides, there's nothing there that can't be fixed with a few mimes.

"Besides, there's nothing there that can't be fixed with a few mimes."

 

*SLAP!*

 

Sorry - I hate mimes.

"Besides, there's nothing there that can't be fixed with a few mimes."

 

*SLAP!*

 

Sorry - I hate mimes.

 

This appears on the latest city planning commission agenda... That being the case, I'd imagine some new renderings would be coming public in the near future...

 

DOWNTOWN/FLATS DESIGN REVIEW

 

1.  DF 2009-006 – Perk Plaza Rehabilitation (City Parks Dept.)

1730 East 12th Street (NW Corner E. 12th & Chester Ave.)

Project Representatives: Jim McKnight, Landscape Architect

Ann Zoller or Nora Romanoff, ParkWorks

Don Kasych, Parks, Recreation & Properties Dept.

I think the design is too sterile. I would envision some energy saving landscaping utilizing native plants...  Too bare..Just plain lawn that will likely be sprayed with lawn chemicals you do not want to lay down on. Trees actually clean the air and add noise reduction. Just notice the difference when directly in Manhattan...in the air, then when you go into Central Park. I hope there is a more progressive, non-chemically dependent and more fun design implementing natives. See www.ohioprairienursery.com or www.prairienursery.com What I envision makes this look bad, at least in my mind's eye. Parks have trees... and are not sterile looking.

This park will have trees. For some reason, in the renderings, they are transparent. But there will be trees. You can kinda see them.

I think the design is too sterile. I would envision some energy saving landscaping utilizing native plants... Too bare..Just plain lawn that will likely be sprayed with lawn chemicals you do not want to lay down on. Trees actually clean the air and add noise reduction. Just notice the difference when directly in Manhattan...in the air, then when you go into Central Park. I hope there is a more progressive, non-chemically dependent and more fun design implementing natives. See www.ohioprairienursery.com or www.prairienursery.com What I envision makes this look bad, at least in my mind's eye. Parks have trees... and are not sterile looking.

 

Whatever renderings are posted on this thread are not the current ones.  Keep that in mind, please.

From what I've heard, the latest design will even save many of the existing trees.  But to echo the others, wish we could get some of the latest renderings up in here!!

i've heard the same...

Has anyone else noticed the fence up around Perk Park? I can't recall when they were supposed to start construction, and without the thread I can't look it up. There didn't look to be anything else going on except the fence going up.

 

Edit- Ok, I'm an idiot. Right after posting that I googled Perk Park and channel 8 says construction is starting this week.

I saw that, too.  I would have thought there would be some news on it.

Work has begun as of this AM...

I actually like the original concept of this park...to have it sunken below street level to offer a more solitude place for lunch and relaxing...out of the line of street noise and fumes. The trees were mature--and they will probably not utilize them in the new design--as a progressive design would. And, sadly, because of the fear of the park being lowly lit at night and the shooting, the old design actually becomes a bad thing. Maybe some light, some paint, and a walk-the-beat cop or two, the sunken design could have remained viable. I don't think I will like the new design if it is a mere flat open space with a few saplings and a chemically poisoned mono-culture lawn. Hope I am wrong, though. By the way, Chicago has banned the uses of many of those products on public grounds. Good on them.

I actually like the original concept of this park...to have it sunken below street level to offer a more solitude place for lunch and relaxing...out of the line of street noise and fumes. The trees were mature--and they will probably not utilize them in the new design--as a progressive design would. And, sadly, because of the fear of the park being lowly lit at night and the shooting, the old design actually becomes a bad thing. Maybe some light, some paint, and a walk-the-beat cop or two, the sunken design could have remained viable. I don't think I will like the new design if it is a mere flat open space with a few saplings and a chemically poisoned mono-culture lawn. Hope I am wrong, though. By the way, Chicago has banned the uses of many of those products on public grounds. Good on them.

 

This was the worst park I've ever set foot in, but we can agree to disagree.  However this statement "The trees were mature--and they will probably not utilize them in the new design--as a progressive design would."... is incorrect.  It was discussed further up thread.

It was a nice design, but impractical given the social context the park exists in.

also the redesigned park will in fact be below street level, it's just significantly more inviting.

Work has begun as of this AM...

 

You mean there's more than just the fence there now?!?  Sweet!

Looks like the site has been cleaned up and leveled.  A few trees to the northern end of the site is all that is left.

and the Ralph Perk memorial stone

Some underground work will occur over the next month. There will be a winter hiatus and then construction will start back up in earnest in March.

Perk Plaza renovations under way in wake of fatal shooting: Whatever happened to ... ?

By Plain Dealer staff

December 21, 2009, 6:00AM

 

A long-stalled makeover of the awkwardly configured park, which sits at the intersection of East 12th Street and Walnut Avenue, received a second wind earlier this year. Mayor Frank Jackson and City Council cleared the way for $1.7 million in improvements.

 

The incident called attention to Perk Plaza's dangers. Chunky concrete walls and a sunken middle resulted in obscure sight lines.

 

Work on the site has begun. Crews dug out the concrete and left in its place a flat patch of fenced-in dirt. Bright-colored banners on the fences promise a significant upgrade.

 

"This park serves as a real example of downtown's comeback, and the mayor's support and leadership has been amazing," said Councilman Joe Cimperman, who represents downtown.

 

-- Henry J. Gomez

 

 

MORE AT CLEVELAND.COM http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2009/12/perk_plaza_renovations_under_w.html

Look what's up for review tomorrow:

http://planning.city.cleveland.oh.us/designreview/drcagenda/2010/030510/PerkPackage030410.pdf

I love the lighting and the concrete lazy-boys.  The fountains will add a nice touch too.

 

Not sure if I am crazy about the grassy 'mounds' though.  Any functional purpose to those or are they just for show?

I'm not sure what the mounds are for either, but without them I'd rate this design "bloody awful."  With them it's "bloody awful, mitigated slightly by topography."  Maybe it will look better in real life than on paper.

Are these trees native to the area? ;)

I thought it was a nice design for the space.  The lights are a really nice touch and the furniture and fountain will make it a great summer space.  I noticed that all the furniture, fountain, and kiosk are in "phase 2"... any idea when/if phase 2 would begin?  I'm assuming they are waiting on more funding?

Phase II depends upon the City finalizing its sale of the convention center to the County. If the sale goes through as expected, then phase II should begin sometime in the fall.

Man that fountain would be nice on a hot summer day.....  Too bad I guess it won't be this summer :(.  I do like that the design calls for half shade and half sun land-wise.

I know I advocated for this in another thread, but this would be a good place for a little splash park.  However, I suppose that would require the installation of some bathrooms as well.

However, I suppose that would require the installation of some bathrooms as well.

 

And that's a baaaaaaaaaad idea. 

I like the plan, but here's crossing my fingers for some occasional programming to take advantage of the space!

I like the plan, but here's crossing my fingers for some occasional programming to take advantage of the space!

 

Agreed, the renderings are showing way more people than will ever inhabit the space w/o some sort of event.  And what is that kiosk for?

 

I'm not sure what the mounds are for either, but without them I'd rate this design "bloody awful."  With them it's "bloody awful, mitigated slightly by topography."  Maybe it will look better in real life than on paper.

 

I'm glad you don't make any design decisions.

I think there was discussion about incorporating a coffee or newsstand, but I don't know the current plan.

We have to remember the unique characteristics of downtown Cleveland when designing any park.  We do not have the pedestrian street traffic that other major cities have.  That means that many of the park designs that work in Chicago & NYC only become deserted havens for panhandlers and drifters.  I worry about hidden areas behind mounds, benches suitable for overnight sleeping, etc.  We have to be practicle in any design.

I would really hate to design our public spaces in a less than ideal way to account for any 'vagrant' factor.  That issue has to be dealt with another way.  Don't get me wrong, those designs that invite crime with issues such as sightline concerns should be taken into account.  But the sleeping, etc. issues can be dealt with other ways, such as park closing hours for example.

Looking good, especially the vegetation specs!  Not sure how I feel about all the fixed seating versus some movable seating, but I know the movable chairs require daily lock-up and maintenance which costs money (at least until the kiosk operator can take over).

 

I am very pro kiosk.

Lord some of these posts are just depressing. Worrying about sightlines, benches and mounds that could possibly hide the homeless. Christ.

I'm not sure what the mounds are for either, but without them I'd rate this design "bloody awful."  With them it's "bloody awful, mitigated slightly by topography."  Maybe it will look better in real life than on paper.

 

The mounds may actually look nice...Give it a chance. It is better than always having a flat, sterile boring space. It adds some character.

 

Someone else mentioned we have to build around the fact we have homeless/panhandlers. That is really laughable! You don't desert what might be a nice park feature because you're afraid a homeless guy might come. You keep the nice features and maybe it will draw more of the kind of demographic you would like to see use the space. Public Square is flat...homeless there... The corner of 9th and Superior...the old Ohio Edison building...flat sidewalk all around there.... and there has been a homeless guy camping out in the side entrance for how long now? Point being, that open sight and flat areas don't seem to deter them...but more people showing up, will.

 

So, how about showing up in the park so we have more of the pedestrian traffic we'd like to see. Let's all step away from UO for a bit and all show up... Then we will see what it could be like! Lead by example.

 

I do hope, however, that the city exercises better maintenance of fountains, because I would hate to see this become another malfunctioning one like on the square....or the one in The Flats. By the way, someonementioned about 'native trees'....none appear to be native from looking at the diagram, but there ARE a few plants that appear to be...not the greatest choices if you worked for Ohio Prairie Nursery, though. . I also hope this lawn is not sprayed with chemicals.. Yes, our "green City" is using toxic lawn chemicals..... Soooooo many benign alternatives to this. Several cities have banned the stuff. Turf sod has no place in efforts to be 'sustainable' these days. Energy dependent, boring....and fake. If the only thing moving in a lawn these days is a lawn mower...its time to think about planting more natural spaces... and discover all the benefits it provides. Biodiversity is not a bad word. But, if we're bio-phobic, well...  another story...

 

One of the interesting things I am experiencing right now it the extreme biodiversity right in Sydney. Citizens embrace and celebrate it... Cockatoos and Rainbow Lorikeets...flying foxes..Awesome! Right in the CBD in the Royal Botanical Gardens and in a populace of 5 mil. 

 

All in all.. I really like this plan..... lots of great elements. Hopefully it will be appreciated and used and taken care of.

I'd prefer a lot more foliage, that's my thing.  The mounds are my favorite part of it.

Several people have jumped on my comments and focused on the homeless/panhandler aspect.  As a downtown resident I cannot ignore the safety issues surrounding any park.  Let's remember, the shootings at Perk Park occurred behind one of the mounds in the old design.  It provided a perfect secluded/hidden area for the crime. 

 

As for public square, removing the tall shrubbery surrounding the two northern quadrants has greatly improved the area in terms of the "safety" perception.  There are no more spaces hidden from public view.  It is a more inviting space for everyone.

 

Before everyone jumps on me again, come downtown after dark and take a walk around the various parks.  You will begin to understand my point.  The parks that "feel" the safest are those in clear view of the street.

Agreed, but then you just have small patches of grass and not parks.  I don't see NYC ripping all the trees out of Central Park, and people get jacked there all the time. 

^^I invite you to walk through any park in any city, suburb, or rural town after dark and you can tell me if you "feel" safe in any of them. This is not a problem specific to downtown Cleveland.

" Let's remember, the shootings at Perk Park occurred behind one of the mounds in the old design.  It provided a perfect secluded/hidden area for the crime."

 

Keep in mind that not only were there mounds, but a majority of the park was below-grade, and had large concrete slabs strewn about which exacerbated the problems with the old design. Also, as horrific as the shootings were - it wasn't a case of just a random pedestrian being targeted off the street.

 

I don't think anyone is dismissing your concerns - and most would say that first and foremost, the layout needs to address safety/perceptions. However, at some point we have to stop designing our public spaces with the "lowest common denominator" as the standard (aka "ooh, we can't NOT have fences on the Detroit-Superior Bridge because someone might jump!").

Transformation of Cleveland's Perk Park on East 12th Street is under way: Close Up

 

http://media.cleveland.com/architecture/other/14EGCLOSE.pdf

 

Perk Park in downtown Cleveland earned a grisly reputation in February 2009, when a gunman ambushed two young men early on a Sunday morning, killing one and wounding the other.

A transformation is under way.

 

Under pressure from neighbors and property owners who want a safer and more beautiful park, Mayor Frank Jackson and Cleveland City Council agreed late last year to spend $1.6 million on a renovation. The design, first conceived in 2003 by landscape architects Thomas Balsley of New York and James McKnight of Cleveland, had languished for lack of funding.

 

Work on the park, located at Chester Avenue and East 12th Street, started late last year. Contractors removed the Brutalist-style concrete walls that blocked sightlines and leveled up the surface of the park, designed in the 1970s as a recessed bowl with a fountain in the center.

 

http://blog.cleveland.com/architecture/2010/03/clevelands_perk_park_transform.html

^ Very nice....

 

and as I posted on CDC.... And the plethora of stupid comments on Cleveland Dot Com---by those who have apparently no clue of what little things do to help to ceate a better city--- never fail to amuse!

It's a great idea and very nice looking park, i just hope that the funds can be raised to complete Phase 2 of the project.

I ride my bike past this park a lot and my best friend lives right around the corner from it. It will be nice to see the final product in person if it's feasible. I think it will be a great asset for more greenery in the downtown area for everyone to enjoy!

After the park becomes a reality, longer term, the City should focus on

- relocating Greyhound out of the area

- addressing security at the Allerton Apartments (Parkview Aptmts)