January 4, 20232 yr 19 minutes ago, Gordon Bombay said: All those politicians down at the shoreline and not one discussed the other vital infrastructure project needed there: the return of Jeff Ruby’s floating restaurant known as The Waterfront! Yeah, let it collide with the new Brent Spence just to break it in.
January 4, 20232 yr 11 minutes ago, Lazarus said: Yeah, let it collide with the new Brent Spence just to break it in. You’re not a real Cincinnati bridge unless an 80s themed floating restaurant hits you twice.
January 4, 20232 yr "You don't just walk into a bar and mix it up by calling a girl fat" - buildingcincinnati speaking about new forumers
January 4, 20232 yr 31 minutes ago, ColDayMan said: Holy 80s. Somethings are much improved after hitting a bridge.
January 5, 20232 yr I had the opportunity to speak with NPR member station WBUR Here & Now about the Brent Spence Bridge, with the audio available at https://www.wbur.org/hereandnow/2023/01/04/brent-spence-bridge-kentucky. Some of my interview was snipped for time, including the bipartisan nature of this project (which is similar to the Ohio River Bridges Project) and the factions that opposed it in part or whole. I updated http://bridgestunnels.com/location/brent-spence-bridge/ with new project information and added http://bridgestunnels.com/2023/01/04/compansion-crossing-of-the-brent-spence-bridge-gets-major-funding-boost/ as a companion article for today.
January 5, 20232 yr Traffic flowed freely throughout today's pep rally. Chris Christie would have lobbed some cones. No sign of JD VANCE. Worse was all of the pandering to ODOT's Jack Marchbanks. This is the stooge Kasich appointed to TRAC days ahead of the vote to reallocate the state's streetcar funding (the line extension up to UC) to the freight railroad overpasses in northern Ohio. I was there - the dude showed up to the meeting WITH PROPS. Nobody else on TRAC even knew who the guy was and he slid in made it ALL ABOUT HIM. Sherrod Brown: no Chinese steel! Audience peppered with iron workers insignias. The gang's all here:
January 5, 20232 yr This project will end up being a missed opportunity in just about every way it possibly could. I feel like I could give these politicians kudos if I didn't have the strong feeling that it's just about throwing $1.6B at self-inflicted wound. And as far as it getting built, wasn't this thing supposed to be like $3B+??? Sounds a little short... I'll also add...looking at the renderings, has anybody else noticed how ridiculously tall the NB approach will be for the companion bridge in NKY? It will be a level higher that the upper deck (SB) of the existing BSB. That should be a hoot. Edited January 5, 20232 yr by Rabbit Hash
January 5, 20232 yr Earlier studies had estimates of over $1 billion which includes the bridge and reconstructing eight miles of Interstates and 71 and 75. It includes collector and distributor lanes between the Dixie Highway and Kyles Lane interchanges, widening to the new split in Covington, a rebuilt interchange with Interstate 71 and US 50 in Ohio, and a new mainline towards Western Hills Viaduct. You may be thinking of the Ohio River Bridges Project which was in the $4 billion range because it consisted of two major bridges, a tunnel, a major interchange reconstruction, and new mainline roadways.
January 6, 20232 yr 21 hours ago, Rabbit Hash said: And as far as it getting built, wasn't this thing supposed to be like $3B+??? The $1.66 billion is just one specific federal grant KY and OH won. The rest will be paid by the 2 states.
January 9, 20232 yr Advocates say there's still time to rethink Brent Spence Bridge corridor design | WVXU https://www.wvxu.org/local-news/2023-01-09/bridge-forward-rethink-brent-spence-bridge-corridor-design
January 9, 20232 yr 28 minutes ago, stashua123 said: Advocates say there's still time to rethink Brent Spence Bridge corridor design | WVXU https://www.wvxu.org/local-news/2023-01-09/bridge-forward-rethink-brent-spence-bridge-corridor-design How does an informal group have a director? Regardless, caps are very expensive to construct and unless there is a viable proposal to actually build something on top of the cap that has a positive return, then it's not something that should be pursued. It's not as if there is a lack of land or development parcels that we need to actually build a very expensive cap for buildings, or worse, for parkland. A cap would be more economically viable if there was a concentrated effort ongoing to rebuild Queensgate from a industrial and commercial park into another use... which there isn't. The focus on caps should be on Fort Washington Way but even that proposal hasn't gone anywhere in 20 years (as I noted in my interview). And I'm sure Columbus would love to also have a cap between the German Village and downtown, too, but that's not happening any time soon. Nevertheless, transportation departments are in the business of moving people and freight, not building pie-in-the-sky proposals that don't realistically exist. With a finite amount of taxpayer money that would ultimately fund such a cap, realistic decisions have to be made. I'm sure that if a group wants to put forth their own money for the cap, ODOT would be more than happy to oblige.
January 9, 20232 yr 59 minutes ago, stashua123 said: Advocates say there's still time to rethink Brent Spence Bridge corridor design | WVXU https://www.wvxu.org/local-news/2023-01-09/bridge-forward-rethink-brent-spence-bridge-corridor-design It would be nice to have, but not something to hold the project hostage about. The key is to build the bridge and get the project done. If you can get an extra few acres of land out of it, then it is a plus, but if it involves creating 3-5 years worth of delays, it is not worth it and the bridge forward people need to accept the wins they already have achieved.
January 9, 20232 yr On 1/5/2023 at 4:39 PM, Rabbit Hash said: I'll also add...looking at the renderings, has anybody else noticed how ridiculously tall the NB approach will be for the companion bridge in NKY? It will be a level higher that the upper deck (SB) of the existing BSB. That should be a hoot. This will enable the new bridge traffic to avoid the "hump" on the north side of the existing bridge, where it rises to pass over the C&O RR approach. The fact that the original Brent Spence Bridge was not built higher, so as to approach and cross the river without the temporary blindness caused by the hump, was a major design flaw. The restriped Brent Spence will still have this problem. The only way to eliminate it would be to reconfigure the lower deck as a true local bridge (a stoplight and ramps at the north end) so that the upper deck's approach could be lowered. Edited January 9, 20232 yr by Lazarus
January 9, 20232 yr 2 hours ago, Lazarus said: This will enable the new bridge traffic to avoid the "hump" that rises over the C&O RR approach. The fact that the original Brent Spence Bridge was not built higher, so as to approach and cross the river without the temporary blindness caused by the hump, was a major design flaw. The restriped Brent Spence will still have this problem. The only way to eliminate it would be to reconfigure the lower deck as a true local bridge (a stoplight and ramps at the north end) so that the upper deck's approach could be lowered. I was looking at the approaches in NKY.
January 9, 20232 yr I was kind of hoping that the NKY approach would have fewer columns. We have the ability to utilize long girder spans these days, but I'm not sure it would make that much of a difference visually as the Brent Spence Bridge will be directly adjacent to the approach. The age of the Brent Spence Bridge got me thinking about a particular topic recently. I was asked in the interview about the condition of the Brent Spence Bridge and after the recent repairs and painting, it's in great shape and can be in serviceable condition for many more decades to come. Having been built in 1963, that puts its age today at 60 years of age. Not bad. And it's expected that it will last for another 30 to 40 years without a major structural rehabilitation needed around 2063. The twin bridges at Henderson, Kentucky that carry US 41 over the Ohio River were built in 1932 and 1965. With the coming of the new Interstate 69 bridge to the east, the newer of the two US 41 bridges will be demolished. The 1932 span will be rehabilitated and it is expected that it could serve well past its 150 year mark. It's oddly in better structural condition than its newer counterpart but I'm not sure why and I am curious if it's the type of steel that was used and fatigue.
January 9, 20232 yr 3 hours ago, Rabbit Hash said: I was looking at the approaches in NKY. The upper deck of the new bridge (75N traffic) will pass over the upper deck of the existing bridge in this spot: https://www.google.com/maps/@39.0875765,-84.5230297,3a,75y,43.3h,106.23t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s6ntS_3Ym0bZJ1AobpViEaA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192 The height will be maintained across the river and will allow the lower deck of the new bridge to easily clear the C&O RR viaduct.
January 10, 20232 yr 17 hours ago, seicer said: The age of the Brent Spence Bridge got me thinking about a particular topic recently. I was asked in the interview about the condition of the Brent Spence Bridge and after the recent repairs and painting, it's in great shape and can be in serviceable condition for many more decades to come. Having been built in 1963, that puts its age today at 60 years of age. Not bad. And it's expected that it will last for another 30 to 40 years without a major structural rehabilitation needed around 2063. The twin bridges at Henderson, Kentucky that carry US 41 over the Ohio River were built in 1932 and 1965. With the coming of the new Interstate 69 bridge to the east, the newer of the two US 41 bridges will be demolished. The 1932 span will be rehabilitated and it is expected that it could serve well past its 150 year mark. It's oddly in better structural condition than its newer counterpart but I'm not sure why and I am curious if it's the type of steel that was used and fatigue. Interesting. I was thinking about the same long term question as well. Will there be a point in the distant future when one of the bridges is deemed at "end of life" and, if so, what would it look like to go back to just 1 bridge?
January 10, 20232 yr A bridge generally is replaced because maintenance costs exceed the cost of replacement, among other factors. Considering the very high cost of building a new bridge in that corridor, I can see the need to keep the Brent Spence Bridge around for as long as possible. Structurally, it's fine - with no fatigued steel, freshly painted steel, and a good substructure. When the companion bridge is finished, the Brent Spence will receive an entirely new deck - and should last 30-50 years with general maintenance. Maybe by the time I'm on my deathbed they will attempt to replace it and the Clay Wade Bailey Bridge with a combined bridge since they are only a few blocks apart.
January 10, 20232 yr When that time comes I demand a third even HIGHER bridge over the existing 2 bridges.
January 10, 20232 yr 38 minutes ago, SleepyLeroy said: When that time comes I demand a third even HIGHER bridge over the existing 2 bridges. The year is 2156. AI ODOT is proposing the Brent Spence IV project with I-71 approaches high enough to clear the Great American Tower. It only makes sense.
January 10, 20232 yr I really wish we could just get rid of the Sixth Street Expressway. It would allow the 71/75 interchange to be a much simpler trumpet interchange that wouldn't require a zillion ramps to mate 71 and 75 with 50 and would slim up the spaghetti junction even further. “To an Ohio resident - wherever he lives - some other part of his state seems unreal.”
January 10, 20232 yr 1 hour ago, BigDipper 80 said: I really wish we could just get rid of the Sixth Street Expressway. It would allow the 71/75 interchange to be a much simpler trumpet interchange that wouldn't require a zillion ramps to mate 71 and 75 with 50 and would slim up the spaghetti junction even further. I ride it every day, but it could easily be an intersection with a stop light at the end just like 8th st. It would only add a few minutes to a trip to town, and you already have to exit and sit at two light to go to north 75, one or two to go south isnt going to be a tragedy especially if it simplifies things in Queensgate too.
January 26, 20232 yr Superimposed the North High caps onto Ezzard Charles, imagining a future where there is a continuous street wall from Music Hall to Union Terminal. One can dream... Edited January 26, 20232 yr by dnymck
January 26, 20232 yr 55 minutes ago, dnymck said: Superimposed the North High caps onto Ezzard Charles, imagining a future where there is a continuous street wall from Music Hall to Union Terminal. One can dream... Out of all the places to do something like this, this would not be a spot where it would be the best investment. 1) to the East, the West End is not there yet for development. If it was getting more traction in that area, then maybe consider it, but that does not seem to be on the near horizon in the next 5-10 years. There are better ways to spend the money. 2) and much more importantly, the point of a cap would be to connect a business district that has been cutoff by a highway and to connect the neighborhood. In Columbus you are connecting High street with the arena district, which was not developed until the mid 2000s. It connected 2 separate walkable areas into a continuous strip. That is not the case here. Even if the West End were developed into a dynamic district, you are stuck with a sea of parking on the other side of the highway leading to Union Terminal. A cap like that does not actually connect anything to anywhere, so it is a bit of a waste of money in this case.
January 26, 20232 yr 59 minutes ago, dnymck said: One can dream... If the streetcar is extended westward down Ezzard Charles, it may be a reality. Then we could replace one of the parking lots with a garage with street-frontage and have the other be mixed use.
January 26, 20232 yr 1 hour ago, Brutus_buckeye said: Out of all the places to do something like this, this would not be a spot where it would be the best investment. 1) to the East, the West End is not there yet for development. If it was getting more traction in that area, then maybe consider it, but that does not seem to be on the near horizon in the next 5-10 years. There are better ways to spend the money. 2) and much more importantly, the point of a cap would be to connect a business district that has been cutoff by a highway and to connect the neighborhood. In Columbus you are connecting High street with the arena district, which was not developed until the mid 2000s. It connected 2 separate walkable areas into a continuous strip. That is not the case here. Even if the West End were developed into a dynamic district, you are stuck with a sea of parking on the other side of the highway leading to Union Terminal. A cap like that does not actually connect anything to anywhere, so it is a bit of a waste of money in this case. Oh no I definitely agree it doesn't make a lot of economic sense, but doing things that don't make a lot of economic sense is kinda Cincy's thing. Anyway if we're already spending 4 billion dollars on this corridor it'd be great to see some quality of life improvements/reconnections across 75. Magic wand this area with increased Amtrak service, an east-west streetcar line, resurrect Lincoln Park from underneath the CUT surface parking and incentivize mixed-use development around it, would be pretty rad. Also - I can't find the rendering but the current plan for this overpass rebuilds the existing dual bridge design into one bridge, which is nice, but in the process they skew the center line of the road so that it no longer is centered on the top of CUT's dome. I find that mildly infuriating.
January 26, 20232 yr 1 hour ago, dnymck said: Oh no I definitely agree it doesn't make a lot of economic sense, but doing things that don't make a lot of economic sense is kinda Cincy's thing. Anyway if we're already spending 4 billion dollars on this corridor it'd be great to see some quality of life improvements/reconnections across 75. Magic wand this area with increased Amtrak service, an east-west streetcar line, resurrect Lincoln Park from underneath the CUT surface parking and incentivize mixed-use development around it, would be pretty rad. Also - I can't find the rendering but the current plan for this overpass rebuilds the existing dual bridge design into one bridge, which is nice, but in the process they skew the center line of the road so that it no longer is centered on the top of CUT's dome. I find that mildly infuriating. I could see doing it if, 1) you expand the streetcar to Union Terminal 2) Develop the parking lot into mixed use residential, retail and parking garages, 3) further develop Ezzard Charles as a destination area in the West End to get that connectivity there.
January 27, 20232 yr 20 hours ago, Brutus_buckeye said: 3) further develop Ezzard Charles as a destination area in the West End to get that connectivity there. This is already happening. The Devou Good Foundation is paying to turn it into an attractive arterial for bike and pedestrian traffic. The redesign of Linn and 8th streets is also moving forward and 3C+D is seriously on the table ATM. It is only a matter of time for the West End be redeveloped/gentrified and by the time the BSB corridor project is complete, it's going to be a much different neighborhood. There's even a new CDC for the West End that is focusing on market rate development. It seems very unwise to at least not look at what it would cost to do it and at minimum, ODOT needs to make the improvements so a larger bridge cap is possible in the future.
January 27, 20232 yr I am skeptical of the potential of building a streetcar line on Ezzard Charles westward to Union Terminal. Meanwhile, I believe that a north/south line on Linn St. has much more potential, for various reasons. At the north end of Linn, where it crosses Central Parkway, it could join with the existing line in a tunnel beginning at McMicken St. to UC. This way, the West End would have unprecedented access to UC and the whole Uptown area, depending on the route chosen:
January 27, 20232 yr Here is a Linn St. streetcar route that travels on an exclusive ROW between Court St. and 4th St next to I-75. This would be a much faster route from the West End to downtown than is currently served by any bus. A 4th St. line could also be made to cross the L&N Bridge pretty easily over to Newport by crossing under the Third St. viaduct.
January 27, 20232 yr 1 hour ago, Dev said: This is already happening. The Devou Good Foundation is paying to turn it into an attractive arterial for bike and pedestrian traffic. This is the easiest part IMO, the infrastructure is there and the area is redeveloping with the addition of TQL nearby. The hard part is the fact that there is a giant sea of parking at Union Terminal which is further surrounded by an industrial corridor which makes the idea of trying to connect it rather pointless.
January 27, 20232 yr 58 minutes ago, Brutus_buckeye said: This is the easiest part IMO, the infrastructure is there and the area is redeveloping with the addition of TQL nearby. The hard part is the fact that there is a giant sea of parking at Union Terminal which is further surrounded by an industrial corridor which makes the idea of trying to connect it rather pointless. If they build the right infrastructure first, they don't have to bend over backwards to redevelop the area.
February 16, 20232 yr ODOT's website says they will post their formal request for design builders this Friday and award the project to a team by May. Does anyone know how many firms/teams may be vying for this project? Given the huge size seems like firms all over the country will be looking at it.
February 16, 20232 yr ODOT posted the 2022 traffic counts. Traffic grew by 149 vehicles per day from 2021-2022 and crossings remain -13.5% below where they were ten years ago. The projections are becoming increasingly unmoored from reality (they aren't even using the correct 'current year' traffic counts in the projections any more)
February 21, 20232 yr Brent Spence Bridge project: Ohio, Kentucky launch search for builder By Abby Miller – Reporter, Cincinnati Business Courier Feb 21, 2023 Ohio and Kentucky are looking for a firm to design and construct the bulk of the largest infrastructure project in the Greater Cincinnati region. The states put out a request for proposals Friday for the Brent Spence Bridge project, an estimated $3.6 billion undertaking that will expand an important national transportation corridor. About 3% of the national gross domestic product travels through the Brent Spence Bridge corridor annually, and it’s the second-most congested trucking route in the country. The RFP, released by the Ohio Department of Transportation (ODOT) and Kentucky Transportation Cabinet (KYTC), is for construction and design services on the project, including improvements to the Brent Spence Bridge and the construction of a companion bridge to its west. MORE
February 22, 20232 yr A one month deadline seems like a very aggressive schedule a contractor to propose on such a massive project and for the states to award the design and construction to firm by May.
February 22, 20232 yr 1 hour ago, GHOST TRACKS said: A one month deadline seems like a very aggressive schedule a contractor to propose on such a massive project and for the states to award the design and construction to firm by May. They probably know the bidders who are likely to win, so it is more of a formality. They need to open the bidding to everyone but given it is a progressive bidding schedule, the people who are going to develop it have been likely working on this for months and it is a check the box type of RFP even though the winners have been predetermined already "guise" of open bidding is merely just checking the box, unless someone really comes in and surprises them, it pretty much is predetermined/
February 23, 20232 yr 23 hours ago, Brutus_buckeye said: They probably know the bidders who are likely to win, so it is more of a formality. They need to open the bidding to everyone but given it is a progressive bidding schedule, the people who are going to develop it have been likely working on this for months and it is a check the box type of RFP even though the winners have been predetermined already "guise" of open bidding is merely just checking the box, unless someone really comes in and surprises them, it pretty much is predetermined/ I would imagine with a project like this, there are tons of elements of the project that are spec'd in. Back in my day with this sort of thing, they would do this and stop just short of naming a proprietary design, but would write it in such a way so that what they wanted was the only possible solution that could win the RFP.
February 23, 20232 yr 1 minute ago, Rabbit Hash said: I would imagine with a project like this, there are tons of elements of the project that are spec'd in. Back in my day with this sort of thing, they would do this and stop just short of naming a proprietary design, but would write it in such a way so that what they wanted was the only possible solution that could win the RFP. Government contracts are fully of cronyism. They will not tell you that because they need to see bidders but to play the game you need to know who is going to win the contract and connect with them to try and work as a sub contractor under them. To your point, they are still written specifically for the party they want to get the bid, which makes it impossible for anyone else to comply profitably in order to win the bid on their own. What these RFP's do is offer smaller contractors to try and connect with the preferred bidder (if they can find them) and network with them so that the preferred bidder can check some of the boxes for diversity, small business owner, etc. that the government wants to see. But make no mistake, the main construction companies on this project are already known and working on it prior to the RFP
February 23, 20232 yr IDK Given that the companies that will be able to bid on a project of this scale, I'm sure they have the staffing to create a bid within a month.
February 23, 20232 yr 2 hours ago, Brutus_buckeye said: Government contracts are fully of cronyism. They will not tell you that because they need to see bidders but to play the game you need to know who is going to win the contract and connect with them to try and work as a sub contractor under them. To your point, they are still written specifically for the party they want to get the bid, which makes it impossible for anyone else to comply profitably in order to win the bid on their own. What these RFP's do is offer smaller contractors to try and connect with the preferred bidder (if they can find them) and network with them so that the preferred bidder can check some of the boxes for diversity, small business owner, etc. that the government wants to see. But make no mistake, the main construction companies on this project are already known and working on it prior to the RFP To be fair, contracts awarded through private companies are full of cronyism as well. I have significant experience, and really see no difference between the two. The difference, as you pointed out comes in the potential for diversity requirements in government awards.
February 23, 20232 yr 2 hours ago, TheCOV said: To be fair, contracts awarded through private companies are full of cronyism as well. I have significant experience, and really see no difference between the two. The difference, as you pointed out comes in the potential for diversity requirements in government awards. Like anything, it is a matter of building relationships, whether it be with the government officer in charge of making the purchasing decision or the private company that is the government contractor who is seeking out sub contractors. Getting a government contract is similar in the sense to get a private contract, with the exception is there is a lot more red tape and a lot more of the hurry up and wait mentality. You have to want to do business with the government to make it worth playing that game because they are an absolute pain to deal with. Unfortunately, for small contractors you get jerked around a lot more by the government than you do the the rest of private secto and you often know where you stand better in the private sector.
March 7, 20232 yr Great walk-umentary thread on crossing the Ohio river using the Clay Wade Bailey bridge. When is the last time I-71 turned a profit?
March 8, 20232 yr I lived in Mainstraße for a year back in 2007 and worked on Garfield Place. Usually rode the bus, made the walk all of once. This really nails that experience - nothing has changed with the CWB.
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