Why not just build 2 of these and be done with it. It will cost 500 million and one year to build.

 

http://www.cnn.com/2010/TECH/innovation/07/30/minneapolis.bridge.sensors/index.html?hpt=C2

 

That design wouldn't be able to span the width of the Ohio, and no supports are allowed to be built in the middle of the river because of the heavy shipping traffic.  It's got to be something a lot more substantial, unfortunately. 

Honestly they got it done in one year. But they can't design this bride to be built in under 10 years. They need HASTE. Also that other bride is 1200 feet accross. How far is long is it over the Ohio?

 

Also COAST is not going to say anything because it's not about the money really it's about forcing low income people out of the area of the streetcar. 

The length of the bridge is 1200 feet, the span is only 500.  The Ohio River span has to be around 900-1000 feet, which would require a really, really bulky looking mass of concrete.

 

But the speed and efficiency of the design and construction process is something that should definitely be a model for this type of project.

 

  Don't forget that the Minnesota bridge was closed by default because it collapsed. Keeping the old bridge open for traffic while the new bridge is under construction adds substantial cost and schedule for the project.

 

  Also, the Minnesota bridge was rebuilt with more or less the same capacity and same traffic patterns. The proposed Brent Spence replacement comes with lots of other work.

 

    Finally, the Minnesota bridge designers had a sense of urgency and a big bankroll because of the attention. We just don't have that.

Why don't they try to get a private developer in here and build hot lanes all along I-75? It could help pay for the bridge itself.

There is some major construction occurring on the Ezzard Charles Drive overpass on I-75.  It is down to one lane in each direction, and it looks like the rest of the overpass is being demolished to be rebuilt.  I can not find any updates on the http://www.brentspencebridgecorridor.com/ website giving a schedule for this work.  I guess the overpass and approach work can be done independently of the bridge itself.

Lol, it looks like they're rebuilding the bridge with plywood. 

They might just be replacing the deck with new concrete.

They are replacing the approach slabs. The slabs had settled and faulted.

 

  Speaking of the Ezzard Charles overpasses, I find the traffic pattern with a square of one-way streets interesting.

This thread has been going on for quite a few years(2004) now.  The original price was 750 million. Now it's 3 billion. Why are they dragging their feet? They want it to be 6 billion before it even starts????

I think some of the variation in numbers comes from the different ways the project can be divided into subprojects.

 

According to a troll on this board claiming to be from COAST, there may be more opposition to this than we know. It would be interesting to see a big fight over a highway project.

I believe that depending on who you ask, the "Brent Spence Bridge Project" can include the entire I-75 corridor from the Western Hills Viaduct all the way to Kyles Lane.  That being the most heavily built-up area along the highway, it is a very expensive stretch to add that extra lane to.

Honestly i can only see a refurbished bridge. With rising gasoline prices that may me there will be less taxes to collect on the gallon of gas. The longer it takes the more likely we won't see a new bridge.

This thing basically can't happen without tolls.  Otherwise it's going to consume huge chunks of Kentucky and ODOT's budgets for the next ten years. 

Could we pay everyone to carpool for less money than it would cost to build this new bridge?

 

http://www.urbancincy.com/2011/06/would-carpool-incentives-be-cheaper-than-a-new-brent-spence-bridge/

News and tragedy on the bridge this week...

 

 

Falling debris closes Brent Spence lanes

 

Lawmakers learn firsthand of bridge issues

 

COVINGTON - Lawmakers from across Kentucky got a crash course in the Brent Spence Bridge Tuesday: dozens of them got stuck in bumper-to-bumper traffic caused by emergency repairs to the bridge.

 

The situation is rich with irony: the lawmakers were in town for an event where community leaders lobby them to fund the region’s needs.

 

At the top of the list? Replacing the 48-year-old Brent Spence Bridge, a $2.5 billion project that will require both federal and state funding.

 

“I think we made some converts,” said Northern Kentucky Chamber of Commerce President Steve Stevens.

 

 

Car knocks man off Brent Spence Bridge into Ohio River

 

COVINGTON - A motorist standing outside his broken-down car on the Brent Spence Bridge was struck by another vehicle and knocked into the Ohio River this morning, according to Covington police.

 

Covington officers were called to the I-75/71 bridge at 6:50 a.m. for a broken-down car, said Covington Police Capt. Teal Nally.

 

Officers do not know the man's name, Nally said.

 

Covington traffic investigators, crime lab, Cincinnati Police, Covington Fire Department, Boone County Water Rescue and the Coast Guard are all working to "find out exactly what happened," Nally said.

http://www.courier-journal.com/article/20110624/NEWS01/306240060/Car-knocks-man-off-Ohio-River-bridge-Cincinnati

    I happened to be driving southbound on I-75 this morning, and I bailed off at Hopple Street when I saw the brake lights. You could just about see a wave of brake lights moving north as traffic backed up.

 

The recent events that have taken place on the Brent Spence Bridge have led this project down the path of serious politicization. I'm not sure if this is good or bad for future project funding, but it's certainly getting pretty heated.

 

Thoughts? http://urbn.cc/p24i

http://www.fox19.com/story/15234168/sen-brown-to-introduce-bill-to-support-infrastructure-projects

Hmm The President mentioned the Brent Spence bridge last light. Hopefully we can get funds for this soon.

Hmm The President mentioned the Brent Spence bridge last light. Hopefully we can get funds for this soon.

 

Boehner clarifies that he will not support earmarks for the Brent Spence Bridge: http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/blog/2011/09/boehner-wont-ok-earmarks-for-brent.html

^ He's not from KY, so his constituents don't benefit. No surprise there.

If anyone has not realized what importance this bridge plays on the overall traffic patterns and how important it is to keep this bridge functioning, then drive to Louisville, Kentucky and see how it (does not) function with the closure of the Sherman Minton Interstate 64 Bridge over the Ohio River. That span was closed last week due to two fracture-critical beams... cracking. The bridge has been closed indefinitely, and may stay closed for as long as six months or more.

Local commuting traffic patterns yes, but in the grand scheme of interstate or international truck shipping, it's bogus.  The Mackinaw Bridge is a "vital link" in the transportation network of the country, but the Brent Spence and Sherman Minton bridges are not. 

I would disagree. The AADT for the Minton Bridge is 76,841 (sta 753, 2008) (not sure where the C-J got their numbers from), and the Brent Spence Bridge is 158,805 (sta 014, 2008).

 

For the Minton Bridge, about 14% of the traffic, or 10,754, are trucks. A good number to have is less than 10% of the AADT being trucks. For the Brent Spence, that increases to 15.5% (going much higher down in Lexington at the Interstate 64/75 split), which is around 24,840. Some of these are local trips, but many are through trucks which cannot effectively be banned from the interstates. In legal sense, it is illegal to do so unless you are prohibiting hazardous cargo.

 

There are only 2 automobile crossings open for Louisville, and only 2 railroad crossings. Most of the queues are commuters, and trucking firms are already advising their drivers to seek alternate routes - which is west at Brandenburg, Kentucky via KY 79 and IN 135 and Interstate 71/75 at the Brent Spence Bridge. US 421 at Madison, Kentucky has been banned to trucks due to weight restrictions.

Who says anything about banning trucks from interstates?  Local traffic can still use local bridges if they want, but there's other interstate bridges to use as well.  Through trucks going through the Cincinnati area have three other interstate bridges to choose from.  Even if there were no interstate bridges, there's the other local crossings too.  Louisville is in a bit more of a quandary since they don't have complete bypasses, but to say that any of these downtown bridges are critical links for interstate commerce is just disingenuous, especially since through traffic shouldn't be using them in the first place, but using the bypasses instead. 

 

Besides, and this goes for rural roads as well, there's nothing that says commerce needs 55-65 mph speeds to function.  Farm produce can still reach the market just as well on a gravel road as a paved one.  Trucks can still get their cargo where they need to even if they have to take a more roundabout way to get there.  It's not like we're talking superhighways versus mud paths here. 

Man don't give any terrorists any ideas.

Brent Spence Bridge plan going public

Engineers to offer proposals for river span, I-75

 

For several years, transportation officials in Ohio and Kentucky have been working behind the scenes to lay the groundwork for the massive $2.4 billion replacement of the Brent Spence Bridge.

 

Now, they're ready to take their plans to the public.

 

Preliminary engineering and design are nearly finished, a lead planner said Tuesday, and public hearings are set for February.

 

At the hearings, officials will present two proposals to revamp a 7.8-mile stretch of the Interstate 75 corridor and three proposed designs for a new double-decker bridge over the Ohio River.

 

Cont

 

 

See three final bridge designs and vote for your favorite here.

Good all around except for the funding bit - but how do you build this in "phases"? I suppose you can rebuild the approaches, which will need to be completely reconfigured in Kentucky and Ohio - the latter involving some major reconstruction and realignment, and then build the bridge, but...

Hmm The President mentioned the Brent Spence bridge last light. Hopefully we can get funds for this soon.

 

Boehner clarifies that he will not support earmarks for the Brent Spence Bridge: http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/blog/2011/09/boehner-wont-ok-earmarks-for-brent.html

Boehner doesn't even Earmark for his own District

They could theoretically only build one deck of the new bridge, then add the second deck.  This has been done several times, most notably the George Washington Bridge in New York. 

This should make for an interesting commute; I'm sure traffic will be stopped in both directions.  I wonder where the actual speech will be - under the bridge? beside it? on it?

 

---

 

President Obama to visit, speak at Brent Spence Bridge

 

WASHINGTON - President Barack Obama is headed to Cincinnati's crumbling Brent Spence Bridge next Thursday to talk about the need for infrastructure repairs across the country, a White House official said.

 

...

 

“The Brent Spence Bridge is on one of the busiest trucking routes in North America, yet it is considered ‘functionally obsolete’ because it is in need of so many significant repairs. If Congress passes the American Jobs Act, we can put more Americans back to work while getting repairs like this done," the official said.

 

http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20110915/NEWS0108/309150100/

*sigh* it's NOT CRUMBLING! 

Oh good. Thanks President for jacking up the story of a deteriorated bridge when it is not. It's functionally obsolete and overcrowded, not fracture-critical and in a near collapsing state.

Hmm the online article now does not say "crumbling" in the 1st para. as quoted here.

Must be getting the I-64 bridge and Brent Spence Bridge confused!

A tunnel would be better. It will last centuries.

The tunnel may last centuries, but not the oil supply.

We were told back around 2004 that a tunnel option had been eliminated because it was too expensive.  Maybe, but the fact is transit tunnels are cheaper to build than vehicular tunnels.  The bore has to be much larger to allow for a 14 foot or greater vertical clearance and for emergency lanes, then there is the matter of ventilation.  From what I remember of the Big Dig (I moved out of Boston before it opened but did two of the public walking tours of the tunnels), it has emergency shoulders everywhere, which contributed massively to its overall capital and ongoing maintenance cost. 

 

I think the main issue that eliminated the tunnel wasn't that it didn't make sense or that it didn't work in the short term.  it's that at some point the existing bridge will be replaced and the new crossing has to be large enough to bear the traffic while the Brent Spence is out.  Obviously a 2x2 lane tunnel won't get the job done.  The Ft. McHenry Tunnel in Baltimore is 2x2x2x2 lanes, but such an engineering effort is only necessary for the most important crossings, which obviously the Brent Spence is not. 

 

 

 

 

Oh good. Thanks President for jacking up the story of a deteriorated bridge when it is not. It's functionally obsolete and overcrowded, not fracture-critical and in a near collapsing state.

 

Article doesn't mention the use of "crumbling bridge" by Obama.  Even if he were to say that, that's exactly what Ohio-Kentucky should want from the President.  The bridge needs replaced, the President has the juice to make something like that a reality sooner than most of us expect it to.  It's not safe, it's a strain on the region and will continue to be a repairman's dream if not demolished.

No, the bridge doesn't need to be replaced and is not being replaced for another 50 years.

Oh good. Thanks President for jacking up the story of a deteriorated bridge when it is not. It's functionally obsolete and overcrowded, not fracture-critical and in a near collapsing state.

 

Article doesn't mention the use of "crumbling bridge" by Obama.  Even if he were to say that, that's exactly what Ohio-Kentucky should want from the President.  The bridge needs replaced, the President has the juice to make something like that a reality sooner than most of us expect it to.  It's not safe, it's a strain on the region and will continue to be a repairman's dream if not demolished.

 

The original article had that quoted. It was then removed.

 

From my article on the bridge: http://bridgestunnels.com/bridges/ohio-river/brent-spence-bridge-interstate-71-interstate-75/

 

"In 1995, a report by American Consulting Engineers of Lexington, Kentucky concluded that the Brent Spence Bridge would need to be replaced by 2007."

 

"Planners with the Ohio-Kentucky-Indiana Regional Council of Governments also concluded in 1999 that the span would last another 15 to 20 years based on the combination of heavy trucks and automobile traffic. Another contractor, Burgess & Niple, Limited, however, refuted that the bridge was not suffering from any ill effects."

 

"In addition, the Kentucky Transportation Cabinet and the Ohio Department of Highways countered that the bridge could hold its current traffic load “indefinitely” as long as the span was properly maintained over the next 16 years."

 

But...

 

"The U.S. Department of Transportation released data that reported the Brent Spence Bridge crash rate between 1995 and 2003 was one of the highest of the nation’s “functionally deficient” bridges. The span between those years averaged 22.8 wrecks per lane-mile each year."

 

Structurally, it's fine. Remember that OKI's main objective is to seek highway funding for the region, and what better way than to produce scary headlines and sound bits that claim the bridge would need to be replaced for fear of collapse within 15 to 20 years? And then engineers from KYTC and ODOT refute that with their findings saying that the bridge, if maintained over the next 16 years, could last "indefinitely." With the cantilevered span design, there are many redundant features that only add to the mass and strength of the span - it's one of the most reliable bridge designs out there.

 

Functionally, it is obsolete. It has no shoulders, so breaking down can lead to dangerous situations as what happened earlier in the year. It also has one of the highest accident rates in the area, due to its design, lack of shoulders and the lower deck.

Reduce the travel lanes and add shoulders. Voila.

 

Too much congestion? Toll it.

 

For local traffic, there are several other options. For through traffic, there is 275. Why spend billions? Really???

The Obama cameo is all about stealing the republicans' thunder.  If you really want to stop the bridge, suggest to tea partiers that it will be named after Obama.

What will stop the bridge, will be the fact that hardly any of the "shovel ready" projects from the last stimulus have been completed.

The entire city of New York is probably "functionally obsolete".

There are no bridges or tunnels to or from Manhattan with emergency shoulders.  Yes, ALL of them are functionally obsolete. 

The Big Mac bridge has no shoulders either, how on earth can we go on living like such barbarians?