Think of the improvement we could make to rail travel through the Valley if you didn't have to fit in 75 and imagine what Covington could do with all that reclaimed land.

That could be a good repopulation plan for Hamilton County to bring people back

 

Found this Facebook page supporting the search for funding for the B$B "replacement":

 

Brent Spence Bridge: The Bridge to Everywhere

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Brent-Spence-Bridge-The-Bridge-to-Everywhere/134450173231800?sk=info

Opened in 1963, the Brent Spence Bridge carries Interstates 71/75 across the Ohio River between Covington and Cincinnati. This bridge has been designated as being "functionally obsolete." Join us in seeking federal funding to replace this bridge.

 

Ironically, they link to jmeck's info site on the bridge. Ironic because jmeck is probably the most outspoken critic of the project in the Cincinnati "media".

 

At first I thought it was going to be a page about the idiocy of the project, as the title of the group would surely be satire. Right? Right? Wrong.

KY Dems propose bill to ban tolls on Ohio river bridge (& others)

http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20120203/BIZ01/302030043/Ky-bill-would-ban-bridge-tolls?odyssey=mod|newswell|text|FRONTPAGE|s

Brent Spence team released Environmental Assessment study

 

Based upon the design features, local access, traffic operations, estimated costs, and environmental impacts, Alternative I, a free-flow system that preserves access to 5th Street in Covington, was chosen over Alternative E, a design that relies more heavily on service roads and would have several segments with a level-of-service (LOS) rating of "F".

 

Alternative I in Kentucky (PDF): http://www.brentspencebridgecorridor.com/Documents/Bridge%20Alternatives/Alternative%20I%20Plan%20-%20Kentucky.pdf

Alternative I in Ohio (PDF): http://www.brentspencebridgecorridor.com/Documents/Bridge%20Alternatives/Alternative%20I%20Plan%20-%20Ohio.pdf

What a monster of a project.  At 9th Street in Covington, with all the collector/distributor streets and everything, there's no fewer than 20 travel lanes, plus all the shoulders.  It's the same at Ezzard Charles.  Then there's the complete disaster at Ft. Washington Way and the 6th Street Expressway.  Some of the turns in that mess are going to be even tighter than they are now.  What is this, Houston?  Atlanta?  This is absolutely insane. 

This would be much less of a mess if they had just constructed the bridge at Ludlow instead of in Covington. Granted that there wasn't much of anything in the ditch that the expressway travels in now, but 3 to 4 lane frontage roads? And even less access to Covington?

 

I laughed at the dashed line for the regional rail bit. It slices through the heart of interchanges and does some interesting right turns at 12th Street, which was just rebuilt.

And what the hell happens to Fort Washington Way? It seems that there are lanes squeezed into the center reservation, and that more lanes are squeezed into the existing space that does away with the shoulders.

All those shoulders... There are four separate roadways over the river, 3 of 2 lanes and 1 of 3 lane, all with shoulders.  That's 8 shoulders, so from a technical standpoint the bridges are only carrying half the design capacity at any time.  Another way to look at that would be to say the bridges are overbuilt by double.  I wonder how much cheaper it'd be to not have shoulders, but instead have someone monitoring a camera with control of traffic alert signs and a phone to call for a tow? NYC has that type of setup on their bridges.

...and just think of how much of this mess could be eliminated if we did away with the Covington 5th Street exit, and added a ramp from I-75 South to the Clay Wade Bailey Bridge on the Ohio side, providing the same level of access to Covington.

It's as though Mary Shelley's been reincarnated as a civil engineer.

Anybody else get one of these in the mail? What fun; time to terrify people into spending money.

 

http://www.liunaactionnetwork.org/site/DocServer/liuna_dm_4x6_JB_030712.pdf?docID=1101

This is ridiculous. The bridge is functionally obsolete, not structurally deficient. Once again they're using comparable terminology association to distort the situation and create a false panic. Politics at its finest!

What was the Minneapolis bridge state before it collapsed? Don't the Louisville have problems with cracks. It was made around the same time as the BS and the BS carries WAY more traffic.

The I-35 bridge in Minneapolis was an under-deck truss bridge with a fracture-critical design.  That means that if any of a number of particular joints, plates, or other members fails, then the load gets redirected to adjacent members and propagates around the structure fracturing other elements until it fails completely.  Basically, it's a highly efficient and interdependent design, but which also has little redundancy.  The Jeremiah Morrow Bridge on I-71 over the Little Miami River is the same type of fracture-critical structure, and it's currently being replaced, but I do not believe the Brent Spence is like that.  It's the same kind of over-deck truss that railroads had been building for 80 or more years to take heavy and highly dynamic loads.  Of course any design can be engineered to remove a lot of "waste" in the name of efficiency, but the Brent Spence seems pretty darn hefty to me.

Oh yeah I got one of those cards in the mail.  I've also recorded their radio advertisement with the gun shots with my cell phone.  I'll do a blog post on it tonight or tomorrow.

What was the Minneapolis bridge state before it collapsed? Don't the Louisville have problems with cracks. It was made around the same time as the BS and the BS carries WAY more traffic.

 

The Interstate 64/US 150 bridge is fracture critical as well. It is a double deck arch, and a crack

http://bridgestunnels.com/bridges/ohio-river/sherman-minton-bridge-interstate-64-us-150/

 

"During a repair to correct some non-structural deficiencies, four cracks in two beams were discovered in supports that connect the double arches to the horizontal spans below the bridge deck."

 

There is little to no redundancy on that bridge, hence why it was declared fracture critical. You simply cannot build certain types of bridges to not be fracture critical, such as the new Blennerhassett Bridge over the Ohio, but with proper maintenance, it can perform as well as any other type of span.

This is ridiculous. The bridge is functionally obsolete, not structurally deficient. Once again they're using comparable terminology association to distort the situation and create a false panic. Politics at its finest!

That card was not about the BSB specifically...................

^Yeah I saw that after I posted.

It would be Chaos if they have to shut the bridge down due to a crack.

 

They might as toll the bridge now, so it will give them an idea on what to expect in the future.

I'm worried that the nasty politics behind this project will fabricate another physical problem with the bridge.  Last year they had that chunch of concrete fall on the lower deck THE DAY that local politicians met to discuss the bridge.  That's suspicious as hell.

 

Basically what's happening here is the unions want a big project and the Republicans want a crisis so they can show how bad "government" is.  They will not pass a bill with an earmark in it to pay for this project, meaning they will do a private-public partnership, then dish out the proceeds of the bridge tolls as a back-door political payoff to their buddies.  I think this propaganda is a build-up to one of 2 or 3 courses of action that will be followed after this year's presidential and congressional races are decided. 

 

I'm worried that the nasty politics behind this project will fabricate another physical problem with the bridge.  Last year they had that chunch of concrete fall on the lower deck THE DAY that local politicians met to discuss the bridge.  That's suspicious as hell.

 

What you are suggesting is way out of line and harms your credibility on here

Kevin posted some renderings of what this monstrosity will look like. The NKY segment looks like something out of the old Trans-Texas Corridor plan.

 

http://www.building-cincinnati.com/2012/03/renderings-brent-spence-bridge-corridor.html

Here is the crazy mailer and even crazier radio spot:

Brent Spence Bridge

 

I just wrote some speculation that this crazy campaign is a desperate attempt to have this project take on the legal character of ordinary highway projects and not become a private-public partnership:

http://cincinnatimonocle.blogspot.com/2012/04/brent-spence-how-to-survive-bridge.html

 

 

I'd love to know where their address list is coming from.

 

LIUNA—the Laborers’ International Union of North America—is the most progressive, aggressive and fastest-growing union of construction workers, and one of the most diverse and effective unions representing public service employees.

 

Shilling for the highway industry is not progressive.

JYP writes:

 

Reimagined Brent Spence Bridge alignment could prove to be financial windfall for Cincinnati

 

In 2010, the City of Cincinnati hired consultants to conduct several workgroups along the Interstate 75 corridor within the city limits. The study, named Revive I-75, addressed ways to mitigate the impact of the expanded highway on the surrounding urban neighborhoods. What also came out of the study was a visualization of the possible configuration of a new bridge for I-75 on the opposite side of Longworth Hall that would have allowed for the expansion of the Central Business District.

Business leaders launch Brent Spence campaign

Cincinnati and Northern Kentucky business leaders have formally launched a public-education and lobbying campaign aimed at shaving five to 10 years off the current construction timeline for a Brent Spence Bridge replacement.

http://www.buildournewbridgenow.com/

"“I do cross that bridge multiple times a day,” {Julie Janson} said. “It isn’t just the commute. The very fragility of that span, one little thing goes wrong and I’m sitting there for an hour, two hours. What is your time worth?”"

Dunno if she is planning some kind of self healing bridge or what. heck I-75 comes to a screeching halt from Dayton, OH to Walton, KY if there's a single accident anywhere.....

http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/news/2012/05/07/business-leaders-launch-brent-spence.html?ana=e_du_pub&s=article_du&ed=2012-05-07

A few notes:

 

* In their video, they say the bridge isn't just a transportation issue, it's an economic development issue. Hmmmm, what's the ROI for road projects compared to transit projects?

* They seem to be opposed to tolls on the new bridge. They want a handout in the next federal transportation bill.

* The Chamber of Commerce mentioned selling the naming rights for the bridge. Has this ever been done for a major interstate bridge?

* Of course, they make no mention of the concerns that Covington or Cincinnati have. No concern about the massive widening of the cut in the hill or the number of demolitions it will require.

 

"I do cross that bridge multiple times a day,” {Julie Janson} said. "

 

I see an easy way that Julie Janson can cut down on the hours she spends sitting in traffic.

I can't wait for the "Duke Bridge" or maybe the "Western Southern Bridge," which kinda has a nice ring to it - somewhat like Great American Ballpark, a lot of common people don't even realize it's named after a company.

If it's all about moving freight without congestion, why not just ban non-freight traffic from the existing bridge? Congestion-free, guaranteed.

^Because commuters would see the bridge "empty" most of the time and gripe about it.

 

Why not toll it? Freight carriers should be happy to pay the toll instead of sitting in traffic.

 

 

^Because commuters would see the bridge "empty" most of the time and gripe about it.

 

Why not toll it? Freight carriers should be happy to pay the toll instead of sitting in traffic.

 

 

 

Wait a minute, it sounds like you are using logic, stepping back and evaluating the situation. :)

 

It appears local business leaders have skipped that phase and moved to the, "We're angry and we want our new bridge now! And no tolls!" phase.

^Because commuters would see the bridge "empty" most of the time and gripe about it.

 

Yes, I know. My point is that this obvious fact undermines the claim that this is about moving freight.

 

Why not toll it? Freight carriers should be happy to pay the toll instead of sitting in traffic.

 

Agreed. Let engineers decide what is an acceptable number of vehicles to cross the bridge each day and set tolls right at the amount which keeps that number of vehicles willing to pay to cross.

Hmmm. What is this???

 

https://www.facebook.com/TSSBA

It's techno-grandiosity coupled with 1970s-era highway fetishism at its most absurd. 

Anyone see the planted letter to the editor in The Enquirer?  Luckily I have the physical paper, as this letter was not posted online.  Basically some shill for the bridge project suggested that tolls will only be 20 cents, and everything else.  This whole project is such a sham!

Drivers: Don't ask us to pay for new bridge

http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20120603/NEWS/306030095&Ref=AR

 

 

We want a 14-lane river crossing and we want everyone else but us to pay for it!

^ LOL.  And, BTW, why not 14-lanes each way?  That should alleviate congestion until at least 2055 AD.  :wink:

Rep. Steve Chabot was too busy inserting anti-rail language into the transportation bill that he forgot to push for funding for the Brent Spence Bridge project.

Well we know there won't be any light rail preparation involved in the B$B project if things go according to his plans.

Any Brent Spence replacement is going to be a toll bridge. As in Louisville, it may also mean tolling other currently free crossings in order to prevent traffic from simply bypassing the toll booth on I-71 or some such.

 

The "build it now" only without new taxes or tolls crowd is a joke.

 

I'm very disappointed in all the design alternatives I've seen to date. Cincinnati deserves better.

 

NatiNinja, there was light rail planning in the approaches but I don't believe any to be parallel to the bridge itself.  I've never heard any news that the light rail crossing will be next to the Brent Spence(s), it has always been either on the Clay Wade Bailey Bridge or immediately east of it. 

 

 

 

I don't have a problem with tolls on the interstate highway bridges (Carroll Cropper, Brent Spence, Daniel Carter Beard, and Combs Hehl), as long the bridges that handle surface streets such as the Roebling and Tyler Southgate remain free. (NYC has a similar arrangement with the East River crossings, where the Triboro Bridge and Queens-Midtown Tunnel are toll, but the Brooklyn Bridge, Queensborough Bridge, etc. are free.) This would allow surface traffic to circulate freely within the urban core, but still capture much-needed revenue from commuter and interstate traffic.

 

People might be inclined to take a different expressway such as 471 to avoid tolls on the Brent Spence, but I suspect relatively few people would be willing to leave the highway and crawl along surface streets to save a few bucks if they aren't already heading into downtown. And if they do, that just means more people off the expressway and traveling through the urban core, which is a good thing.

Coalition starts educational campaign to speed up Brent Spence project

Business Courier by Dan Monk, Senior Staff Reporter

Date: Tuesday, November 27, 2012, 3:16pm EST - Last Modified: Tuesday, November 27, 2012, 4:28pm EST

Dan Monk

Senior Staff Reporter- Business Courier

 

Organizers of the educational campaign to accelerate the construction of a Brent Spence Bridge replacement claim the region could avoid $18 billion in fuel and congestion costs if the project starts in 2014, about four years ahead of the current schedule.

 

The Build Our New Bridge Now Coalition began airing TV and radio ads Tuesday calling for the creation of a public-private partnership to explore financing options for the $2.7 billion project. Opposition to tolls has kept Kentucky lawmakers from endorsing that idea.

 

But Covington businessman Brent Cooper criticized that opposition as short-sighted and bad for business. Cooper, president of C-Forward Information Technologies, said Brent Spence Bridge delays cost his company more than $100,000 annually. He expects that figure to rise over time. So, even if a new bridge toll cost his company thousands, he figures he’d still be better off with a bridge financed by user fees.

 

READ MORE AT:

http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/blog/2012/11/coalition-starts-educational-campaign.html

Pitiful. So much short-sightedness. If this is all about moving freight, let's ban personal automobiles on the current bridge. If it's about alleviating congestion, let's add congestion pricing to river crossings.

 

We don't have money for this bridgedoggle. It's unnecessary and ignores devastating land use implications of induced travel, as well as long term trends of decreasing vehicle miles traveled. We struggle to pay for maintaining the infrastructure we have. At least, with tolls, this bridge should (hopefully) not be eating into maintenance dollars for other infrastructure.

 

How many historic structures and homes will be torn down to make room for commuters from exurban McMansions?

Here was my comment on the Enquirer article: "Northern Kentucky state lawmakers continue to collectively oppose tolling because they believe residents who commute each day to Ohio would bear most of the burden of paying for the bridge. During morning rush hour, 63 percent to 65 percent of local drivers who cross the Brent Spence start in Kentucky, according to the Ohio-Kentucky-Indiana Regional Council of Governments." Exactly a good reason FOR tolls. The rest of us in the region and those all around the country subsidize frequent users of the bridge - KY residents who work in Ohio. The Tea Party is simply arguing for Kentuckians who use the bridge more often shouldn't have to pay the true costs of their commutes, and should rather be spread around to the rest of the country. Freight movement isn't affected by tolls since it would amount to very little cost to freight companies/drivers and many would be re-routed to lesser used I-275 loop.

More blue states subsidizing red states with entitlement spending such as "free" roads.

Brent Spence is unsafe and an eyesore.  Cincinnati really does need a shiny, modern bridge with modern dimensions to boost its image, economy, and to increase the size of downtown by a third.  As much disappointment that surrounds the state of downtown residential and retail right now, the realignment of 75 coinciding with the Brent Spence project will catalyze all kinds of development west of Race for years to come.  That freed up land will not sit vacant like the mudpit between the stadiums did.

 

Even if you feel keeping Brent Spence around is progressive planning for the region, the fact that building anew increases the size of downtown so dramatically has to resonate as critical for the future of urban Cincinnati.

But the plan that would shift the alignment west into Queensgate and add all that land to downtown was one of the first that was scrapped.  The current plan keeps the "old and busted" bridge and simply adds the "new hotness" next to it, only freeing up a block or so of downtown land.