well at least someone is talking about making it something special

We should make a poll, What do kind of bridge should the Brent Spence be:

Cable stayed

Double Cable Stayed

Suspension

Rope, etc.

Goal: Get bridge right

Much study underpins planning for Brent Spence replacement

 

By Dan Klepal

Enquirer staff writer

 

When is replacing a bridge not just replacing a bridge?

 

When that bridge connects two interstate highways and sits next to downtown Cincinnati.

 

Problems associated with the Brent Spence Bridge are being studied, so its billion-dollar replacement can be planned over the next four years.

 

http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20051017/NEWS01/510170344

I think they should:

 

• Construct the new bridge A LOT further west of the current bridge. Open up opportunity for growth in DT Cincy.

• Keep the southbound and northbound traffic more separated.

• Stay away from the double-decker bridge style.

• Not just build a bridge, but a significant landmark. This bridge carries close to two-hundred thousand vehicles a day. Make something that has design and an artistic appeal to it. This is also a must because of it's location to downtown. Think colorful as well.

 

People do not want to see bridges and highways right next to the city, so make it as appealing to the eye as much as possible... I'm thinking Golden Gate Bridge in a rich red....

I think it should resemble the Taylor Southgate.

 

j/k

 

I'm thinking something on the lines of a dead dinosaur skeleton.lol

From the 11/6/05 Enquirer:

 

 

Possible trouble spots charted

Planning begins for a new Brent Spence

By Dan Klepal

Enquirer staff writer

 

Before deciding where a new Brent Spence Bridge will be built, engineers have to map out all of the area's hazardous waste sites.

 

They have to pinpoint hundreds of historic buildings, scores of sewer lines, gas lines, power stations, subway tunnels and sensitive wetlands.

 

http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20051106/NEWS01/511060406/1056/rss02

 

-Brent Spence Study Webpage!!!!

 

Check 'er out

 

 

http://www.brentspencebridgecorridor.com/

 

 

Maps:

 

 

http://www.brentspencebridgecorridor.com/Alternatives.html

 

 

Alternate No.1 Rehab+I-75 West

Rehab existing bridge for local traffic, re-route I-75 traffic to a new

structure in Queensgate.

 

 

Alternate No.2 New East+I-75 West

New bridge for I-71 traffic on existing alignment, re-route I-75

traffic to a new structure in Queensgate.

 

 

Alternate No.3 New West + New Interchange Dropped from further

consideration

New bridge adjacent west, 5 lanes in each direction.New Queensgate

interchange.

 

 

Alternate No. 4 Single Bridge Replacement (I-75 Widening in Ohio)

Replace existing structure with new bridge adjacent east with 7 lanes

in each direction.

 

 

Alternate 5 Double Bridge Replacement (Elevated I-75 Roadway in OH)

Replace existing structure with new bridge adjacent east. Split I-75

local and thru traffic in Ohio.

 

 

Alternate 6 Rehab + I-75/I-71 West

New structure adjacent west for Interstate traffic. Existing structure

rehabilitated for local traffic.

 

 

-- -----------------------

I would bet on alternate 4

 

 

 

What I often wonder is where exactly the border is within the river.

 

If you look at the Tailor Southgate Bridge, you can see fencing along pedestrian walkways on the Ohio side.  I'm assumung where they stop is the official state line, and that Kentucky didn't see the need for the fencing.

 

http://www.cincinnati-transit.net/ztaylor1.jpg

http://www.cincinnati-transit.net/ztaylor3.jpg

http://www.cincinnati-transit.net/ztaylor7.jpg

 

The fencing is to protect the pedestrian areas below the bridge from the CInder Block Launchers..It ends where the water starts, not nec. the state line

Their website needs a little work, at high res its hard to read some of the tables.  It will be interesting to see what option is built.  Since the Brent Spence is in good condition, I would guess they keep it.  It depends on how expensive the land in Queensgate vs. cost of a 7 lane bridge.

Thanks for the link!

Their website needs a little work, at high res its hard to read some of the tables.  It will be interesting to see what option is built.  Since the Brent Spence is in good condition, I would guess they keep it.  It depends on how expensive the land in Queensgate vs. cost of a 7 lane bridge.

 

They keep talking about a signature bridge so I hope they don't keep the Brent Spence. They should also get rid of that smaller bridge that you can access on third street to Covington. And I want the second bridge as far west as possible.

Those six alternatives are exactly the same that were published in the Cincinnati Post about a year ago.  BTW I just realized that almost any "Queensgate" route for a new bridge would go over that large are they're trying to develop right now between the C&O viaduct and the river.  That might explain the delay.

 

 

 

They keep talking about a signature bridge so I hope they don't keep the Brent Spence. They should also get rid of that smaller bridge that you can access on third street to Covington. And I want the second bridge as far west as possible.

 

Noooo...I use the Clay Wade Bailey often.  I prefer it to the Brent Spence as a route into Covington.

Can you guys imagine something like this spanning the Ohio?.... Ahhh...  :-o

 

 

    ^ Yes I can. It's the Roebling Bridge.    :-)

 

    And now that you mention the Golden Gate:

 

    Did you know that the Roebling Bridge, like the Golden Gate, was the longest span in the world when it opened? The Roebling Bridge held the record for about 20 years, until it was surpassed by another bridge designed by Roebling, the Brooklyn Bridge.

 

    Did you know that Roeblings successor firm, John Roebling's Sons, built the main cables on the Golden Gate Bridge?

 

    Did you know that the designer of the Golden Gate bridge, Joseph Strauss, was a University of Cincinnati Engineering grad?

 

    Did you know that Cincinnati's most popular landmark is the Roebling Bridge? (Eden Park, the Central Trust Tower, Union Terminal, Fountain Square, the various inclines and Riverfront Stadium are the closest runners-up.)

 

------------

 

    Ok, back to the Brent Spence:

 

    Have you noticed that so many of the famous bridges have a high length to width ratio? For example, the Roebling Bridge is 2,252 feet long, and is only two lanes wide, or about 24 feet wide. That's a ratio of about 100 to 1.  The Golden Gate bridge is 6,450 feet long and 90 feet wide, for a ratio of about 70 to 1.

 

    The Brent Spence is also about 2,500 feet long but is 4 lanes, or about 50 feet wide. That's a ratio of about 50 to 1.

 

    They are talking about a new bridge that may be slightly longer, say, 3000 feet, and 7 lanes wide, or about 90 feet wide, in eacy direction. That's a ratio of about 30 to 1 if they are stacked in two levels, or 15 to 1 if they are side by side.

 

    Pardon me, but in my humble opinion a signature bridge that looks anything like the Roebling, the Golden Gate, or any other beautiful bridge is out of the question simply based on ratios. Compare the narrow old Central Bridge to the wide one that replaced it. Which one is more graceful? Long, narrow bridges are always prettier than short, wide ones.

 

    Finally, the existing Brent Spence has a beauty all of it's own.  The mess of approach structures detract from that beauty, unfortunately, and the Brent Spence also lacks a sidewalk. Will any of this change with a new bridge?

 

 

 

   

 

   

From the 1/7/06 Cincinnati Post:

 

 

New grant for Brent Spence

By Michael Collins

Post Washington Bureau

 

WASHINGTON - The federal government is allocating more money to help replace the aging Brent Spence Bridge.

 

The U.S. Department of Transportation has approved a $581,000 grant for the massive project, U.S. Sen. Jim Bunning announced Friday.

 

http://news.cincypost.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060107/NEWS01/601070344/1010/RSS01

 

From the 1/14/06 Cincinnati Post:

 

 

Warning: Crumbling bridge ahead

By Shelly Whitehead

Post staff reporter

 

It was an L-shaped piece of debris, no bigger than a sheet of notebook paper, but sizable enough to punch four holes into Amy Wilder's car, while at the same time frightening her as she drove.

 

The 36-year-old Independence woman swears a chunk of the Brent Spence Bridge fell from the top deck and onto her gold Infiniti last month.

 

http://news.cincypost.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060114/NEWS02/601140328/1011/RSS02

 

 

    Whatever the object was, it is also possible that it wasn't part of the bridge at all but came from another vehicle.

I hope it came from another vehicle, but I think the bridge has to go, it is to dangerous no matter how many lanes it has.  Bring on a new 14 lane bridge!

Perhaps I am in the minority, but I really would prefer we explore the options of keeping the Brent Spence intact before considering its demise. Personally I do not think that trusses look all that bad, and from a structural standpoint the bridge, with proper maintenance, could stand for quite a long time. Should the Brent Spence plus new bridge options provide the same level of service, safety and service life as a new bridge(s) would, but would be cheaper than building just new bridges I would hope that we would pick keeping the Brent Spence and not be swayed by what a lot of people consider an ugly truss bridge.

^I don't know. i just read a story yesturday that something fell off the southbound  lanes onto the northbound lanes  underneath and hit a car.

^---- Trader Jake, I agree with you. I don't see the need for a new bridge, expecially a new larger bridge.

 

    Do not mix up structural problems with capacity problems. The Brent Spence is in good condition compared to other bridges it's age. Traffic is normally running smoothly, except at rush hours. And, like we've heard so many times before, can we build our way out of congestion? Widen the bridge to 6 lanes each way and I bet those 6 lanes are still full during rush hour.

 

    I don't have updated stats, but the Enquirer reported that traffic on the Brent Spence Bridge declined from 1995 to, I think, 2001. Anybody have traffic stats since then?

 

   

 

From the OKI 2005 Regional Traffic Counts:

 

HAM024 Brent Spence Bridge (I-71/I-75)  ADT: 148928

 

and during the same time:

 

CAM035  I-471 at OH State Line ADT: 95864

 

I just downloaded a traffic count program for the entire state of KY.

http://transportation.ky.gov/planning/data/cts/cts.asp

 

 

Traffic count for I-75 at the bridge in 1995 was 162,000 2001 was 147,000 2003 was 149,000 2005 was 154,000.

 

I think the contruction of the cut inthe hill made some people avoid the bridge ever since. Oddly enough the busiest part of I-75 I-71 is at it's widest point, just south of I-275 at 175,000.

^-----Thanks for the data, guys.

 

 

 

I was just watching the Discovery channel about tunnels. It's possible to put a tunnel  on the bed of the Ohio river instead of digging under it. I think they should look at that option very hard. It may even be faster to build since the sections are lowered down into place and then connected.

^I saw an epiode on Discovery about the Boston tunnels, part of the big dig project where they lower tunnels into place. Its a really cool concept. But wouldn't a tunnel on the floor of the river act as a sort of dam. Most times you'd be fine, but when the water rises, you'd block all that water at the bottom. I'm no engineer, thats just what popped into my mind.

I'd be more concerned about clearance.  Pool stage of the Ohio river in Cincinnati is 25.1 feet or so.  I can't imagine such a tunnel being less than what, five or six feet on the bottom, same on the top, plus a clearance of what, 15+ feet?  Seems like the top would stick out of the river...

Oh yeah...scrap that idea..The ohio is not deep enough. Unless you put in some kinda warning system when the level gets so low.Maybe you could carb out the bottom ,then put the sections in place. ;) Still cheaper than drilling under it I would think. Oh btw they got 14 billion dollars for that Tunnel. They can't spare a billion to replace the bridge which soon will have the same kinda Volume the big dig carries.

From the 1/29/06 NKY Sunday Challenger:

 

 

Brent Spence Bridge Project Draws Flood of Interest

 

LEBANON, Ohio - Though its construction start date is still years away, the proposed mega-project to replace the overcrowded and aging Brent Spence Bridge that stretches across the Ohio River from Cincinnati to Northern Kentucky has attracted a wide span of interest.

 

With a gamut of information about the Brent Spence Bridge Rehabilitation/Replacement Project located at www.brentspencebridgecorridor.com, the mega-project, estimated to cost from $750 million to $1.5 billion, is the No. 1 transportation priority for officials in Cincinnati and Northern Kentucky.

 

http://www.challengernky.com/articles/2006/01/29/around_nky/doc43da8ff37df28752308914.txt

 

Brent Spence plans presented

Four of them envision adding bridges, rehabbing old span

BY MIKE RUTLEDGE | ENQUIRER STAFF WRITER

 

 

Five bridge options

Alternative 1: A new "Queensgate bridge" for I-75 would start west of Gest Street near the Ohio River shoreline on the Cincinnati side and angle toward the Brent Spence Bridge on the Covington side. The new bridge, 800 to 1,000 feet west of the existing bridge, would carry five lanes of I-75 traffic in each direction. A rehabbed Brent Spence would carry I-71 and local traffic - two lanes in each direction, plus two shoulders each way - as the bridge originally was designed.

 

Alternative 2: Both I-71 and I-75 traffic would use a new Queensgate bridge, which would be in essentially the same location as the bridge in Alternative 1, although it would carry seven lanes of traffic in each direction across the Ohio River. The Brent Spence Bridge would not be torn down and instead would be rehabbed to handle two lanes of local traffic, plus two shoulders, in each direction.

 

Alternative 3: The Brent Spence Bridge would be rehabilitated for use by I-71 and local traffic (two lanes in each direction, with shoulders on both sides). A new bridge would be built immediately west of it, carrying five lanes of I-75 traffic each way.

 

Alternative 4: A new bridge - probably a double-decker like the Brent Spence Bridge - would span the Ohio River, parallel to the existing bridge and immediately to its west. The new bridge would carry five lanes of I-75 traffic in each direction on the top deck, with three lanes of I-71 and local traffic on the bottom deck. The Brent Spence would be demolished.

 

Alternative 5: Two new single-deck bridges would be built on either side of the Brent Spence Bridge. Each new bridge would carry five lanes of I-75 traffic - northbound on one bridge, southbound on the other. The Brent Spence would remain or be replaced, and would carry two lanes of I-71 and local traffic in each direction.

 

COVINGTON - The Brent Spence Bridge Advisory Committee approved five alternatives Thursday for replacing the span that carries Interstates 75 and 71 across the Ohio River.

 

One choice - Alternative 5 - would involve new bridges on either side of the Brent Spence, and possibly a third: a substitute for the overworked Brent Spence itself, which was built in the early 1960s.

Alt 4 sounds best.

^I agree, 4 sounds great! Of course, I don't live off I-71 either. I just want to purge the old bridge, be done with it.

I wonder why there isn't any talk about combining the new bridges with the train bridges that already exist. That would elimate two more ugly bridges. I think a new bridge in Queensgate would be great. The further west the better. Queensgate is way under utilitized. There's plently of room to move business and add new ones. I would think having 75 traffic going through Queensgate would be a good thing.

Alternates in Detail:

http://www.brentspencebridgecorridor.com/Documents/Alt/BSB%20Conceptual%20Alternatives%20Solutions%20(3-23-06).pdf

 

(What is currently wrong w. the WH viaduct interchange? with the height of the bridge, how can they connect to both the lower and upper decks with the SPUI or rounda-thingy)

I think a new bridge in Queensgate would be great...Queensgate is way under utilitized. There's plently of room to move business and add new ones. I would think having 75 traffic going through Queensgate would be a good thing.

 

This is very true the city is currently designing a redevelopment plan for Lower Price Hill and Queensgate.  I have heard that the railyards are going to be reworked and that new industry will be introduced.  City zoning administrators have told me that there is an enormous industrial demand for Cincy and that they need more sites with interstate access in order to tap into this high demand market.

 

It would seem as though Queensgate would be a perfect locale with better interstate access and improved rail accessibility.

From the 3/26/06 Enquirer:

 

 

New span's impact worrisome

Study says properties in area would suffer

BY MIKE RUTLEDGE | ENQUIRER STAFF WRITER

 

COVINGTON - If a new "Queensgate Bridge" is built to ease the burden on the overworked Brent Spence Bridge, the community impact in Covington and in Cincinnati south of Interstate 75's Ezzard Charles Drive exit would be "poor," an analysis has found.

 

The Brent Spence Bridge Advisory Committee last week cut to five the number of proposed bridge alignments that will move ahead for further evaluation.

 

http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060326/NEWS0103/603260432/1059/rss13

 

<i>I'm not buying it. I find it hard to believe the Museum Center would be negatively effected by a new bridge in Queensgate. I'm betting a couple of used car dealers are moaning about the possible losses of their surface lots. I don't think there is any business in that area that is worth stopping a new bridge in Queesgate. Lets get moving on eminent domain ASAP.</i>

 

<b>Queensgate alliance concerned about Brent Spence options</b>

 

Cincinnati Business Courier - 2:16 PM EDT Friday

 

The Queensgate Business Alliance has gone on record in opposing two of the five alternatives for a Brent Spence Bridge replacement.

 

Both of the alternatives would "result in a catastrophic negative impact from an economic point of view to Queensgate," Doug McDonald, president and CEO of the Cincinnati Museum Center and treasurer of the Queensgate alliance, wrote in a March 30 letter to Ohio Department of Transportation.

 

http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/stories/2006/04/03/daily62.html?jst=b_ln_hl

Downtown could hold block party

Brent Spence replacement project could unveil more than 5 acres of land

Cincinnati Business Courier - April 14, 2006by Dan MonkSenior Staff Reporter

 

The Brent Spence Bridge replacement project could hold a hidden prize for downtown Cincinnati, freeing up more than five acres of highway right-of-way for development.

 

The new acreage could be about one-third the size of The Banks pro­ject, large enough to accommodate a future convention center expansion, new housing or hotel structures, perhaps even a casino.

 

http://cincinnati.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/stories/2006/04/17/story1.html?page=2

So if someone can confirm/correct this - the current status is:

 

1) Analyzing alternatives, scheduled to be finished by 2009.

2) Working on gathering funding - already have enough money to fund the studies, but still have to get the money for construction.  Probably will occur in the next couple years while the plans are cemented.

3) Construct whatever is selected by 2018.

 

That about right?

From the 4/29/06 Cincinnati Post:

 

 

Brent Spence plans to be aired

Post staff report

 

The public will get a chance to examine more fully the plans to replace or rehabilitate the aging Brent Spence Bridge at a two public meetings next week.

 

Illustrations of the five alternatives for the nearly $1 billion project and representatives of the project team will be on hand to answer questions at the open house style meetings taking place on:

 

http://news.cincypost.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060429/NEWS02/604290323/1014

 

I attended the open house today at Union Terminal. I was a bit disappointed. The Queensgate option isn't that impressive. One major thing is there would be no access to the new bridge from US 50. What's the point? It seem like a rehab of the Brent Spence is where they're leaning. Again not a fan of that. There's no point in creating a "Signature Bridge" if it will be blocked by two ugly bridges, BS and Clay Wade. Here are a few images. Most of this info can be found on their website.

 

The Study Area (Red Line) includes the Clay Wade, but they aren't doing anything with it. Disappointing.

 

 

The breakdown of each option. Red is bad

 

 

The huge posters were neat to look at.

 

 

This is a Queensgate option. Hear is what annoys me, I would have to drive by the new bridge to get tothe same exit I take now, then that would take me back to new part of 75. Why? The Western Hill Viaduct is the closes ramp to the new bridge. I thought this bridge was being built only for me.  :|

 

 

 

 

 

 

There's my access ramp. Not happening.

 

Cool...I'll have to try to get to the one in Park Hills.

Yeah...I'm not real big on leaving all of those currently ugly bridges.  I say remove both CW and BS and replace those with a local access bridge separate from the new 75 bridge.  Thats right TWO new bridges that are larger, safer, and more visually pleasing.  These bridges would also be farther apart...the new 75 bridge through Queensgate, and the new local bridge near the current CW.

 

This would allow for the abundance of ramps, access streets, and other crap immediately west of downtown, thus freeing up some much needed space on the western edge of the CBD.  I feel that this would help with some larger scale projects downtown and help to create/expand an ever forming neighborhood (4th St).

 

Buildings are actually trying to grow in the middle of the highways giant web of disgusting :|  Lets just give them what they want....some room to breathe/grow!

Bridge may put homes in Ky. at risk

 

By Kerry Duke

Post staff reporter

 

Construction of an Interstate 75 bridge over the Ohio to replace the Brent Spence is still years away, but David Ivory is keeping close watch on it.

 

Ivory is familiar with the highway department aerial maps that outline the boundaries for each of the five alternative plans to replace or rehabilitate the aging Brent Spence.

 

http://news.cincypost.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060504/NEWS01/605040366

Question for PigBoy:

Ivory is familiar with the highway department aerial maps

 

Is there such a thing as a non-aerial map?

I think that's just referring to the maps with the aerial photo base (as in moonloop's photos).

 

That's the topic of my thesis... check back in a year or so and I'll tell you whether they're a good kind of map or not. :wink:

>Yeah...I'm not real big on leaving all of those currently ugly bridges.  I say remove both CW and BS and replace those with a local access bridge separate from the new 75 bridge. 

 

The CSX C&O Bridge will be there for another 50 years, at least, and the Clay Wade Bailey is only 32 years old.  If you want to live in a place with no vestiges of an industrial past, move to Las Vegas. 

 

 

>Thats right TWO new bridges that are larger, safer, and more visually pleasing.  These bridges would also be farther apart...the new 75 bridge through Queensgate, and the new local bridge near the current CW.

 

There is nothing unsafe about either bridge, other than the current lane arrangement and approaches.  The bit about its structural fatigue is a scare tactic -- return it to 3X3 lanes and it'll probably be good for another 50 years.  And any new bridge as wide as they are talking is doomed to aesthetic mediocrity.  Wide bridges almost always look clunky compared to narrow ones.  The old Central Bridge versus the current Taylor-Southgate is an illustration of that. 

 

>This would allow for the abundance of ramps, access streets, and other crap immediately west of downtown, thus freeing up some much needed space on the western edge of the CBD. 

 

Downtown doesn't need any more undeveloped land.  It already has roughly 80 parking lots of various sizes.   

 

 

>Buildings are actually trying to grow in the middle of the highways giant web of disgusting   Lets just give them what they want....some room to breathe/grow!

 

There actually used to be a ten floor building in the middle of that interchange, where the Valvoline sign is.  There used to be a picture of it hanging in Chicago Gyros near UC, I don't know if the photo is still there. 

 

From the 6/1/06 Kentucky Post:

 

 

Bridge plans to get sharper eye

Post staff report

 

Highway engineers are beginning field work to assess more critically plans for upgrading or replacing the 43-year-old Brent Spence Bridge.

 

"All five alternatives and the sub alternatives are still being evaluated and are going to be evaluated further," said Robert Hans, project manager for the Kentucky Department of Highways' District 6 in Fort Mitchell.

 

http://news.cincypost.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060601/NEWS02/606010336/1011/RSS02