Middle Earth sets its sights on out-of-ordinary condos

Dan Monk

Courier Senior Staff Reporter

Middle Earth Developers Inc. may try to bring something new to the downtown condo market: signature architecture.

 

 

"Cincinnati is becoming known for its world-class architecture and we want to build on that momentum," said Glenn Kukla, partner in Middle Earth, a 21-employee housing developer known for rehabbing old buildings in Over-the-Rhine and downtown.

 

...

 

http://cincinnati.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/stories/2004/06/21/tidbits1.html

more people downtown = good!!!

I just hope they manage this project a bit better. Working with them on my current loft has been a little... difficult.

i am happy whenever more people live downown

are they talking about the small metered lot on the corner of 4th and central? i don't see how a 42 unit 6 story building would fit there (or a parking garage)... its a VERY small lot. its right next to where i live (kinsey flats). i think its the lot right across the street from Tina's.

 

i mean, we're only 25 units and we occupy the last 3 buildings on 4th. that would be one narrow and tall 6 story building. and where the hell would the parking garage go? would they dig our parking lot up (our lot is behind our building and some parking underground) and put it there?

 

this plan seems sketchy at best.. i'd like to see some photos.

 

do you have a link to the article? maybe i can see if anyone at MED can fill me in on any details, i could email glenn or something. i can't think of any other spot besides next to my building where they could put anything.

 

mark: what lofts do you live in? i live @ kinsey but we're rentals and they seem ok, but i can see how they might be frustrating if you're purchasing one from them. they still have a HUGE list of things that still need to be finished in this building, no real progess with any of it

mark: what lofts do you live in? i live @ kinsey but we're rentals and they seem ok' date=' but i can see how they might be frustrating if you're purchasing one from them. they still have a HUGE list of things that still need to be finished in this building, no real progess with any of it[/quote']

 

I don't want to start a huge stink, because I appriciate any company that is doing the sort of development they do in downtown Cincinnati...

 

Basically I think it all comes down to being a small company that's bit off a bit more than they can chew. I purchased a unit in the Graydon place project on 6th, and my experience has been frustrating since they seem to do a great number of things 'on the fly' and expect you to be flexible, but in turn if you would like to make a change or suggestion they are less than accomodating. That being said it is a semi-custom condo, so it's somewhat to be expected. I believe they are doing the best they can, but the best they can sometimes is often a disorganized mess that tends to forget who the customer is :). All things considered, however, the end product tends to be a good one so I'm hopeful my project, as well as the one announced, turn out well.

 

Kinsey seems like an awesome building (I toured it awhile back), how is it working out for you? What's not been completed?

yeah, i'm not saying anything bad about them. they do a lot of good downtown and in OTR, i think they just get overloaded at times. they've always been friendly and helpful when I talk to them

 

kinsey is a very cool building. saying a HUGE list was probably an exageration, there are items still unfinished though. our fitness/rec room isn't done (no idea when it will be). i'm not sure what the plans are for the rest of the basement, it looks like they were working on it at one point but just sort of stopped. they've been trying to get the windows cleaned on the building for a while, however thats not really their fault. they've had problems getting permits for equipment and the weather never wants to cooperate. i don't think our security cameras are working either, they are in place but i don't think they do anything. those are probably the only big items on the punch list, mainly the basement is what i wish they'd finish. also there are no street numbers on our building yet, confuses the hell out of delivery people.

 

Graydon looks like a cool project, nice location too

 

If these new ones next to us are as modern as described I'll be tempted to trade my loft in on one :)

If these new ones next to us are as modern as described I'll be tempted to trade my loft in on one :)

 

I know the feeling. When I signed the condo contract in May of '03, Graydon was pretty much the only choice, with the exception of one or 2 here and there. Now with dozens of projects active, it's tough to not want to change or upgrade before I'm even moved in!

 

How did you decide on Kinsey? Do you work downtown?

About five years ago there was a proposal to build a highrise apt. bldg. on that corner, but nothing ever came of it. There was even a sketch of what it would look like in the Enquirer as I remember.

 

How did you decide on Kinsey? Do you work downtown?

 

I actually work in northern KY. I'm from West Chester and its too long of a commute, and living in NKY wasn't something I was too into. Downtown seemed a good choice and Kinsey was something I just sort of lucked into. I was looking at either Kinsey or the Emery center but I liked the 4th street area better. I may be searching for a new job soon though, working downtown would be nice.

 

I have a hard time imagining a high rise on the corner here, unless they span the entire length of the corner (from 4th to the alley behind us). That wipes out half of our parking lot though. I'll definitely have to find more info about this.

 

How did you decide on Kinsey? Do you work downtown?

 

I actually work in northern KY. I'm from West Chester and its too long of a commute' date=' and living in NKY wasn't something I was too into. Downtown seemed a good choice and Kinsey was something I just sort of lucked into. I was looking at either Kinsey or the Emery center but I liked the 4th street area better. I may be searching for a new job soon though, working downtown would be nice.[/quote']

 

I live in the Emery myself. I would have liked to live in Kinsey while my condo is being completed, however Kinsey wasn't completed in time. Emery isn't bad - but you're right, 4th is a better place to be unless you want to hit the bars everynight (and who doesn't?). If you decide to start looking at a place to buy, check out some of the Urban Sites properties out. They do some amazingly creative things with inexpensive materials.

Damn...I went to the Middle Earth website and couldn't find out a damn thing about it.  Maybe everyone was right!

Condo project slated for Fourth St.

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

CincyPost.com

By Bob Driehaus

Post staff reporter

 

The booming downtown condominium market is adding another 49-unit project.

Parker Flats, at 345 W. Fourth St., will be built from scratch and will feature soaring glass walls and a spartan steel design. Its units will go on the market Friday with prices mostly between $200,000 and $300,000.

 

...

 

Publication Date: 03-24-2005

Awesome!  Is there something on that site currently?

I just did a quick search on the address on the auditor website, and from what I can tell, it must be the parking lot at the corner of 4th and central across from Tina's bar.  I remember hearing about this project years ago, the guy trying to do it owned the land, but was not a builder or developer.  I will try to find the info again, although I am sure it has changed in design given the amount of units they are talking about.

 

This is great because it rids the city of another faceless parking lot and will hopefully put a cool building on a site visible from I-75 and I-71 and FWW, it will probably also show from the Bengals stadium on TV as well!

Spectacular!

Yes, it must be meant for that vacant parking lot on the s.e. corner of 4th and Central.  That lot isn't all that huge.  It may extend down to 3rd street though I'm not sure.   I went down to see if they had a sign or anything, but didn't see any indication that anything was going to happen there.  I hoped for a rendering, but nada. 

Incredible news! I like the innovative glass wall that slides up to create a patio.

 

If the units are going on sale tomorrow, a rendering has got to pop up somewhere soon.

awesome indeed.  now if only neyer would pull through with their proposal in st. xavier park

Anyone have renderings of what these lofts are to look like (interior and exterior

 

Thanks

Joe

http://thenati.blogspot.com

 

^ I sure haven't.  I'm sure they'll be on here the second someone sees renderings, though!

thats awesome. 16 foot ceilings are huge

"The booming downtown condominium market is adding another 49-unit project. "

 

When they use confident terms like that, you know things must be going well.  Good for Cincinnati.  I will have to come visit sometime.

I just found a rendering in an ad in CityBeat.  Not great quality, but I think some people will be interested to see it.  It looks like it will be 11 stories and the long side will face Central Ave.  It looks like it might run from 3rd to 4th street. 

 

From what little bit im reading from the picture there ^^, is that saying basicaly a giant glass garage door for your wall? Seems interesting enough...

Interesting!

6 stories if i remember correctly

that will be interesting.. i wonder how they are fitting that huge building in that spot. i'm guessing it's going to wipe out part of our lot here at kinsey flats.

 

can't wait to see more drawings

I see now that it will be 6 stories.  I just counted the horizontals, but I see that those X-shaped girders will be one for each floor.  I guess the middle horizontal on each floor would be where the window partition separates with the lower half sliding up into the upper window.  I'm not sure that I would really like that feature given the proximity to I-75 and Fort Washington Way.  It would be noisy and there would have to be screens or one would end up with an apartment full of birds and bugs.

It looks like it might run from 3rd to 4th street.

I've not been to this place personally, but it sure looks to me like the corner of 3rd and Central is literally underneath a FWW ramp, and that there is a small street that intersects between 3rd and 4th; I presume that street is the southern end of this building.

 

Anyway, I agree the window feature may not be the most desirable thing given its location, though the thing immediately across the street is that ramp to nowhere that was discussed in a thread a while back... maybe people can sit and watch cars drive off the edge! :-P

Ok this helps, I was reading grasscats post on SSP and couldn't figure out where they could build condo's from "scratch".  I am not aware of surface lots on Fourth Street.

Monte, the surface lot is on the corner of 4th and Central, across from Tina's Bar.  The shot below looks as though it is looking east/northeast from the corner of Central and Third.  Here is the rendering from the MLS...

 

The link is http://www.preferredgrouprealtors.com/displaylist.asw?listnum=932949&mls=cincy

 

I took a walk down there this morning and looked more closely at the parking lots walking down to McFarland Street which is the east-west street between Third and Fourth Sts from Elm St. to Central Ave.  I am now convinced that there is room for the building on that half block, so the boundaries will be McFarland St. on the south, Central Ave. on the west and 4th st. on the north. 

I looked at it last weekend myself.  Because of McFarland bisecting that block there's no way it's going to 3rd, but there is the chance it's going to be L-shaped because there is some vacant property down McFarland.  That is probably owned by the buildings facing 4th, but the new CAC, for instance, tucks behind the Metropole Apartments, so it might happen.  In that rendering there is an existing building shown to the right of the new building along McFarland, but there is not actually a building there.   

Some more quick homework shows the following:  the City owns parcels 53,54,55, and 67.  Middle Earth owns all the rest with the exception of parcels 76-78.  I assume they have a deal with the city to build upon their land in exchange for parking or maybe an outright purchase.  So, the building could very well be a large "L" shape.  With about 10 units per floor (5 floors/49 units), it will definitely have to use most of the space on the McFarland side.

 

if they are going to do an L shape down mcfarland they will wipe out the parking lot for kinsey flats. without that lot all we have is our dinky ass underground garage, which is a bit of joke to begin with. what will suck more is that everyone in teh rear units of kinsey are going to lose their views. those units had some kick ass view sof the river, now they can enjoy the back of parker flats. if they do an L shape those units might as well be caves.

 

as cool as this new place is, it could screw stuff up for kinsey. we had decent parking, nice views.. maybe i'll just move into parker instead.

 

i hope this new building gets the ball rolling on filling the commercial space under kinsey flats, its been empty since the buildings opened about a year and half ago. we could use a coffee house or something down here. maybe a panera would be ok too.

I wouldn't worry yet prolix.  That "L" idea is just speculation and seems to be contradicted by the admittedly vague rendering we have seen.  There seem to be quite a few condo projects going on and some have sold well, but some seem to be going nowhere fast (McAlpins and Next Hotel for instance).  I hope it is built since it seems an interesting idea, but I doubt if you'll see bulldozers in your parking lot anytime soon.  I wouldn't think MiddleEarth would want to get the Kinsey Flat occupants all up in arms.

Just out of curiosity, how much does a lot like 53,54,55 run these days in Cincinnati?

 

Also what would it take to split up lot 67.  Say the building next door wanted to buy the 1/3 of the lot overlapping them in the rear of 56,57,58?  Who approves that?  City council, zoning?

I have no idea what the land would cost.  As far as splitting parcels, that is a county function dealing with the engineer and the recorder.  It is not a hard process, but a lot of paperwork.  I am going thru it right now with some land in Hyde Park, we are re-orienting five parcels into six smaller ones to build townhomes within the current zoning.

Value history (I know, it's assessed value and has no bearing in the real world):

 

Lot 53: $134,500

Lot 54: $223,600 (it appears that 54 and 55 have been combined)

 

However, it appears that there has been no transfer of the property and the city has owned it for as long as the records go back (it says 1970).  In fact, according to the auditors site the city still owns them and the property hasn't been transferred, etc.

 

As for your last question, I believe that it would go through city council, who would then pass it on to the Neighborhood and Public Services Committee.  They would then report back to the council at large for any zoning/subdivision change.  I'm not positive on this, though.

 

EDIT: I see that Cincinnati Kid answered while I was still typing and that I am wrong.

 

 

Just in case there is someone who is not surfeited with this thread, here is a shot of the land in question which I took a day or two ago.  The view is looking north from McFarland St. towards 4th with Central Ave. on the left.

 

new mls entries.. with some floorplans!

 

 

unit 1 - $384k! - no floorplan for this one...

 

unti 2 - $319k - floor plan below (my personal fav)

 

unit 3 - $205k - floor plan below

 

unit 4 - $194k - floorplan below

Here is a pic I took two weeks ago:

 

they used to lease out the extra spots in our lot as monthly parking permits, but in the last couple weeks neyer more or less took over the entire lot (the excess spots). thus all the new pretty yellow lettering all over. i'm guessing this building won't be started anytime soon if they are leasing out the parking lot still. that gives me more time to save up so i can move next door :)

They're not giving any dimensions on the room sizes yet, are they?  At least I don't see them anywhere.

Nope, no room dimensions or even SQ ft listings. Info about this entire project is vague. Nothing on MED's website yet about it either. I wonder if Huff is just testing the waters with the limited info to see if there is even enough demand to make the project feasable.

surfeited?

 

To feed or supply to excess, satiety, or disgust.

 

New on on me...but thanks I'll use it at work tomorrow!

^Good for you.  I'm a philologist as well as an historian, lol.

Not that this is much different from previous renderings, but this shows it from what would be the Fourth St. and Central sides.

 

Also, Middle Earth has this on their website now.  You can see the floor plans in greater detail and read more about the project:

http://www.medevelopers.com/parker_flats.asp

 

Ugh, they are starting to "modify" it already.  I don't like that dumb facade facing 4th St.  It's no more sympathetic to its neighbors architecturally than the original bold design and just looks stuck on.