Based on the conversation in this thread [ http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php?topic=10405.0 *] and this thread [ http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php?topic=3595.0 ].

 

I wondered how many of you are 100% car free or what percentage of your life is car free?

 

 

* is it possible to add this poll to the first thread?  :?

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My battery is always dead from lack of use, guess thats a good thing though.  I wish I could be 100% car free but in the winter when there is ice I have to use a car to commute to work. 

I don't actually know what to put.  I'd say I average 2-3 driving trips a week, mostly to visit friends and family who love their suburban living, and sometimes to get groceries.  I guess compared to standard American suburban lifestyles, that's somewhere in the 75%-100% range.

is the percentage based on trips, e.g. walk 3 times, bus 2 times, bike 2 times, drive 1 times = 87.5% car free?

Yeah, what's the breakdown?  Commuter trips (to/from work), leisure trips, shopping, vacations, all told, what?

 

 

Yeah, what's the breakdown?  Commuter trips (to/from work), leisure trips, shopping, vacations, all told, what?

 

 

 

All of the above.

Car-free since '73.

I need to go car-free in a year ending with a 3 as well so I can have a cool rhyme like that. Problem is the next opportunity, 13, doesn't rhyme with "car-free."

I wish that I could.  I live near downtown but my office is in Florence.  At least the traffic is backed up in the wrong direction.  Outside of my commute to/from work, I'm about 90% car-free.

Don't have a car.

 

Am a member of City Wheels, although I use it very sparingly.

I'm car-free, and a member of City Wheels. My partner has a car and we carpool to work.

Do you live near UC?  I thought there were only two locations - University Circle & Oberlin?

No, I just take the Rapid or bus to the lot - and I've only used it on rare occasion but I'm glad it's an option.

It's hard with kids, but I will be one day.

since I started my new job, I am wearing nicer clothes to work and driving.  ick.  I hope to return to my bicycle commuting once I get a gym in the circle to freshen up in the mornings.  I feel really stupid sitting in my car as I drive to work.  perhaps that is why other people have working radios, to distract them from the sheer idiocy of driving fifteen minutes to work.  my radio is broken, I feel dumb.

i'd say somewhere in the 75-85% range. When I move next year, i hope to bump it up to 98% (to see mom and pop of course, unless the ohio hub gets built.

i'd say somewhere in the 75-85% range. When I move next year, i hope to bump it up to 98% (to see mom and pop of course, unless the ohio hub gets built.

 

To where will you be moving? Did you buy one of those penthouses in the Avenue District?

Even though I live two miles from work, I need a car and I need it bad. With the wife working crazy hours at the hospital and the child's daycare located in University Circle, I drive more miles by 9am than most people drive all day.

Even though I live two miles from work, I need a car and I need it bad. With the wife working crazy hours at the hospital and the child's daycare located in University Circle, I drive more miles by 9am than most people drive all day.

 

you drive from OC, to UC, then back downtown, then the reverse in the evening? Whoa!

i'd say somewhere in the 75-85% range. When I move next year, i hope to bump it up to 98% (to see mom and pop of course, unless the ohio hub gets built.

 

To where will you be moving? Did you buy one of those penthouses in the Avenue District?

 

Actually its what KJP's big news is about regarding pescht. I'm buying a 350k Sq ft condo.

 

But seriously I'm moving next year to either a) tremont, b) ohio city or c) downtown; and plan to take better advantage of transportation options. Where is live in the heights, isn't bad, but it isn't great either.

Actually its what KJP's big news is about regarding pescht. I'm buying a 350k Sq ft condo./quote]

 

Is your last name "Eaton"? ;)

eaton needs more than 350k!

My wife and I only have one car...and it's mostly hers (she's got a little longer to commute).

 

I generally hitch a ride with her on the way, walk, or take COTA.

Car free (for now). Im getting really fed up with metro's sh%$ty service.

Car free (for now). Im getting really fed up with metro's sh%$ty service.

This should probably be  a separate thread, but what do you think would improve it ?

Banning black teenagers would be the first thing that comes to my mind.

To narrow it down a bit, ban black female teenagers.

If you are having a hard time now, wait til September.

semi car free: (2-3 trips month) 3 seasons. daily car winter. spouse no car ever. If I did not have a job that required field work I would bid farewell GLADLY for good.Innercity living helps of course. so do scooters...

Car free (for now). Im getting really fed up with metro's sh%$ty service.

This should probably be  a separate thread, but what do you think would improve it ?

Banning black teenagers would be the first thing that comes to my mind.

To narrow it down a bit, ban black female teenagers.

If you are having a hard time now, wait til September.

 

I don't think it should be a separate thread, it's very pertainent to the subject of being car free. Bus drivers have passed up my stop several times while I'm standing there (and yeah I stand at the right stop). It wouldn't be as frustrating if buses ran more often. I know that it's not efficient to have buses running when there's not a large ridership on certain days and hours but when you DO get passed up and have to wait another 50 minutes, it makes you late for work (unless you want to wait for the bus 2 hours prior to when you need to be on the clock--which makes riding the bus not worth it if you have another option). Some of the bus drivers are great, but I think they need better quality control. I know it's hell being a bus driver sometimes, putting up with those loud obnoxious teenagers but it shouldn't be taken out on other people. If you hate your job that much, find another one. I know it's hard putting up with some of the people on the bus; I've pretty much seen it all. People trying to provoke fights with drivers because the driver said they didn't put enough change in the machine, people calling the driver "racist" because he says someone's stroller is too far out into the isle, etc. Anyone who doesn't know how to conduct themselves on a bus should be kicked off but obviously it can lead to a lot of drama.

 

As far as a solution, I'd say holding drivers accountable for passing up stops when people are standing there and having PRIVATIZED bus service. That would be amazing. I think service would greatly improve if it was for-profit. Companies tend to bring forth more innovation when there's an incentive to do so.

Car free (for now). Im getting really fed up with metro's sh%$ty service.

This should probably be  a separate thread, but what do you think would improve it ?

Banning black teenagers would be the first thing that comes to my mind.

To narrow it down a bit, ban black female teenagers.

If you are having a hard time now, wait til September.

:wtf: :wtf: :wtf:

Car free (for now). Im getting really fed up with metro's sh%$ty service.

This should probably be  a separate thread, but what do you think would improve it ?

Banning black teenagers would be the first thing that comes to my mind.

To narrow it down a bit, ban black female teenagers.

If you are having a hard time now, wait til September.

:wtf: :wtf: :wtf:

 

Yeah, Quimbob, you need to explain that comment a bit.

Perhaps its best he didn't.

He's drunk and pulled a Mel Gibson!

LOL There is some truth to what he said, if you're talking about the 17 route, but they probably wouldn't be so loud screaming into phones in front of them if the bus drivers actually told them to tone it down.

Yes, my main experience is on the 17 and yes, when the drivers try to discipline kids, it frequently results in more drama.

Kid in the back of the bus screaming obscenities at the driver.....

I have never seen a driver successfully toss someone off the bus - they always have to call the cops.

This makes people give up and quit riding the bus.

Dealing with obnoxious kids who drag their butts on and off the bus screws up the timetable.

When the driver gets behind schedule, when he is distracted by kids fighting on the bus, he might miss a waiting customer.

I have been pushed, poked, cursed and insulted by black teenagers. I have had a couple problems with white adults, a handful of problems with black adults, no problems with white teenagers, Asians, Indians or Africans.

Then, there are the mentally handicapped........

I figured I'd get some crap for calling out a particular group of people, but I was not blaming a whole race for starting global conflict - just a larger than small group for making bus riding a horrible experience.

Horsesh!t. You didn't say "the obnoxious black teens who fight/etc.", you lumped them all together. Take a week to re-examine how you should address these things in the future.

 

Folks, I don't have a problem when forumers relate something they've experienced (i.e. abusive/obnoxious behavior) and keep their criticisms focused on those specific individuals, but by all that I hold holy, there will not be those kinds of racist generalizations on my watch.

I'm with ya MayDay. These last several posts are clearly get out of hand and veering well away from the subject of the thread. Let's clean it up folks and stick to the topic.

I'm not sure if this is the best place for this or not, but here goes.

 

Does anyone else here not have a car?

 

I'm living car-free in Youngstown.  But, it only works well for me because:

A. I chose my neighborhood carefully so that I'm within walking distance to a grocery store,

B. I don't need to take part in nightlife.  If something great is happening downtown (and there ARE more things happening these days) I can get a ride or take a taxi, (I could even walk it in about 50 minutes.) and

C. the mass transit system, while very limited, works well for me.

 

I'm also asking because, if I suddenly decided that I wanted more activity and culture in my life and decided I wanted to relocate, I'd like to know where the most pedestrian friendly parts of Oho are.

I'm impressed - I grew up in Salem and spent many (many) nights downtown at Cedars and other spots back in the day. It's hard for me to imagine being car-free there but kudos to you for pulling it off.

 

I've been car-free in Cleveland for over 5 years. Like you said, given that it's a smaller city you have to do some homework before you choose a neighborhood. I'd say that the most pedestrian/tranit friendly areas of Cleveland are Ohio City, Edgewater/Cudell, Shaker Square, and a few others. It helps that we have a car-sharing service as well, for the times I do need a car.

Thanks!  I figure if I can make it without a car here, then it should be a piece of cake in one of the big cities.  But, having only lived in the Canton/Massillon area growing up, I don't really know much about the big cities,..yet.

 

I've read here that living in downtown Cleveland can be expensive, but is it also a poor choice for someone without a car?  I was told over 7 years ago that there weren't any grocery stores (some place to get bread, milk, etc.) downtown.  Is this still true?

No. There are two smaller grocery stores right downtown, plus a Dave's Supermarket in Asiatown just east of downtown (on the #4 and #35 RTA routes with service every 20 minutes between them), a Dave's Supermarket in Ohio City just west of downtown (on the #22 and #20 RTA routes with 24-hour service and buses every 5-10 minutes daytime hours on weekdays as well as the Red Line station being a short distance away), plus the West Side Market in Ohio City that's open four days a week and is closer to the bus/rail routes I just mentioned, as well as the #81 route from downtown to Tremont and beyond. The #81 also goes to Steelyard Commons (Target, Best Buy, Marshalls', Super WalMart, Home Depot and two dozen other stores) just south of downtown.

 

About six years ago, I co-wrote a book called Car-Free in Cleveland that was published through the Legal Press. You can probably still get it at a few places, but many of the bus routes have changed. So if you have any questions, let me know. If I can't someone else here surely can.

 

But you don't need to live in downtown Cleveland to live a convenient, rewarding car-free lifestyle in Greater Cleveland. You can do so from Downtown Rocky River to the west, to Old Brooklyn in the south, to Cleveland Heights and Shaker Heights (mostly the Lee-Van Aken/Chagrin area) to the east.

University Circle works as a car-free location as well....

That's in between the extremities of the area I outlined. In just about any area within that outline, you can have a pretty rewarding, car-free life.

If you're getting a ride from someone or taking a taxi, is that still car-free? :wink:

 

Cleveland has a number of neighborhoods where it is possible to get by without a car, but none in which I would consider it optimal.  I think the closest would be Downtown, with the rest of the areas mentioned a little less so.  It depends on what you want to have access to, though.

 

What parts of Youngstown do you think are best for car-free living?

^wow, KJP, I didn't know you co-wrote Care Free in Cleveland.  I snapped it up, immediately, when I saw it in Borders Beachwood when it came out... Unfortunately, I've since misplaced it... It's an impressive book and I was proud a progressive-minded group of Clevelanders would publicly, and forcefully, "just say NO" to automobiles -- really cutting against the grain in this (psychologically) auto-dependent town.

 

I've always said Clevelanders could be car-free if they wanted to... If only they could get a little help from RTA in running the existing system (ie, the late-night weekend Rapids I beeatched about in Jerry Masek's thread), ... and how about some all night bus service serving the most densely-populated, transit friendly neighborhood in Cleveland -- I'm, of course, speaking of Shaker Square where ALL service, rail & bus, shuts down after 1p --  and the closest 24 bus line is the 14-Kinsman; a good 2-mile hump through some very questionable nabes in the darkness of night...

 

If you're getting a ride from someone or taking a taxi, is that still car-free? :wink:

 

Cleveland has a number of neighborhoods where it is possible to get by without a car, but none in which I would consider it optimal.  I think the closest would be Downtown, with the rest of the areas mentioned a little less so.  It depends on what you want to have access to, though.

 

What parts of Youngstown do you think are best for car-free living?

 

Really X?  What's optimal?  I think all the neighborhoods KJP mentioned are good.  And don't forget, Ohio City is not only criss-crossed by so many West Side buses and the Red Line Rapid, you can easily walk downtown over one of the bridges (or thru the Flats if you so please).  Also, I have a number of Shaker Square friends & neighbors who don't have cars and don't want them.  (beautiful/historic/compact) Shaker Sq, esp after Dave's Supermarket moved into Wild Oats' empty space a few years ago (Bless Dave, ... really).  You've got restaurants, theatre, grocery, cleaners, knickknacks plus, NOW.... (drum roll, please)... a spanking new CVS smack dab in the middle of Joseph-Beth's booksellers old space.

 

And don't forget, you've got Larchmere a block away and a 48-bus ride down the hill to wonderful University Circle (plus Chagrin-Lee-Avalon and Van Aken Shopping Ctr going away from downtown).. What more do you need, X?  (and we won't even get into such things as direct rail downtown, employment/sports/entertainment, plus a 2-train ride to Hoplins Airport)...

Thanks Clvlndr! I wrote pages 45-87 of Car-Free in Cleveland. Those were the sections that dealt with transit and transportation services available for travel beyond Cleveland, including how to get to specific cities throughout Northeast Ohio, across Ohio and select cities nationwide. I also descriptions of the ease of transit, walking and biking in various city neighborhoods and suburbs in Cuyahoga County, what transit routes/services someone could to get to specific shopping centers, theaters, educational facilities, hospitals, museums, nightlife, parks, and sporting venues. It was a lot of fun to research all of this, and was very educational.

 

I was amazed how much you could reach without a car. I don't think long-time Clevelanders (and even many transit riders) know how much they ground they can cover and things they can do if they know their away around. And now that RTA has bike racks on all their buses (as do other transit agencies in counties surrounding Cuyahoga), you can get around pretty well. The only exception is the worst winter weather -- but that's true for driving, too.

Clvndr, I would say that optimal means that you can do everything (reasonably) you need to do faster by means other than by car.  Does Shaker Square really have even a reasonable approximation of having everything needed accessible by foot or public transit as fast or faster than by car?  What about getting a CD or a book?  Groceries after 9:00?  Simple household supplies- hardware or bath towels, perhaps?  How much is in walking distance, how frequent is the bus service and does it run whenever one might need it?  Are these better options timewise than hopping in a car and driving to Severence or even to another walkable neighborhood like Coventry? 

 

None of which is to rag on SS, it is a wonderful neighborhood, one of the best to go without a car in Cleveland.  But I wouldn't consider carfree to be "optimal" as a lifestyle there.  It might be something I would do to save money if I lived in this neighborhood- but with the realization that it comes at the expense of time and convenience.

About six years ago, I co-wrote a book called Car-Free in Cleveland that was published through the Legal Press. You can probably still get it at a few places, but many of the bus routes have changed. So if you have any questions, let me know. If I can't someone else here surely can.

 

are there any plans to release an updated edition? 

 

also, i know there is some info on ecocity's website (http://www.ecocitycleveland.org/transportation/carfree/carfree.html), but is there a more comprehensive site that exists for cleveland?

 

X, I understand your point... But to a degree, I think maybe your focusing on the hours such establishments keep rather than the lack of such establishments in SS.  Actually, btw, Dave's stays open until 10p.  But in general SS is, compared to most Cleveland quality urbanized hoods, an early-to-bed kinda place.  I think a lot of this stems from the older, richer populace nearby in such places as uber elegant Moreland Courts (sorry MyTwoSense) and adjacent Shaker Hts. 

 

But really the Rapid can get you to a number of the type of places you mention even when they are wanting in the immediate area.  Examples: Blue Line to Shaker Hts hardware; Blue/Green downtown connecting to the Red Line to such places as K-Mart (West Park); Home Depot (I forget which stop); and, as KJP mentioned, buses to Target (Steelyards) or that new one on W.117 -- where, I guess, you can hoof it or bus it from the Rapid stop there... Also, remember, once upon a time, SS had a Halles and a swank Franklin-Simon, among others.  I don't expect you'll see such stores in SS anytime soon given the comp from Malls and "Lifestyle Centers, but choices will be even better, easier once we can finally get some seroius retail back downtown again.  TC gives us some options...

 

Believe it or not X, such big city neighborhoods in a New York, or Boston or DC or Chicago aren't much more complete than a Shaker Sq.  I'll grant you that the trains may be a tad more frequent and late night and stores may stay open later, but just as in SS, one often has to hop a bus or train to get to some of the type of retail you mention... esp in Chicago which, as you know, the crowded and lively many areas, is a vast plane... and remember, the L, though large by our standards, misses large swaths of Chicago and close in burbs whereby riders must often use connecting buses to finish their trips...

 

Cleveland stacks up quite well to such places walking/transit-wise in certain areas.  I think, maybe what is motivating you (and what motivates a lot of people to not use RTA) is that traffic is light, comparatively here, where as in a Chicago, NY and even compact towns like D.C. and Boston, driving can be a pain in the ass.  In most instances, moving about by car here is a snap... We're spoiled as we have the best of both worlds: Cleveland has about the best balance of any major city between good transit and easy driving.

Thanks for all the info, everyone!

What parts of Youngstown do you think are best for car-free living?

Here's a map of Youngstown's newly defined neighborhoods:

http://www.youngstown2010.com/neighborhoods/print_maps/neighborhood%20boundaries.gif

I live in the "Garden District" neighborhood.  WRTA's hub is downtown.  Three bus lines run up Mahoning Ave. (the line between the "Garden District" neighborhood, and the "11" neighborhood)  I don't believe there is this much overlap of service in any other part of the city, and each individual bus line only runs once an hour. (or less)  If there are other areas served by more than one line, they would be near downtown.  Unfortunately, most other areas near downtown don't have much--if any--residential development, or are undesirable due to the high crime rate.

I was forced due to financial circumstances to go without a car for over a year.  Well, technically I gave up my car but I still had access to one as my spouse kept the other one.  We live out in the SW burbs (middleburg heights).  It was NOT fun and not easy and I would in no way recommend it for anyone.  I was stuck downtown more than once because I had to work late and my scheduled bus never arrived, then I had to wait until after 10pm to get a ride home when my spouse got off work from the 2nd job. 

 

I also found the weather one of the worse parts of not having a car.  When you have to walk to and from a bus stop carrying bags of any kind, be they groceries or clothes or whatever, and it is pouring, icy or snowing, it is a complete pain, and often dangerous.  I fell more than once walking to/from my bus stop.  I have never hated Cleveland more than I did that year and once I got a car again, my  hatred went away.

 

I once tried to meet some friends for dinner.  They were "online" friends such as if everyone on urban ohio got together so I didn't really know anyone as this was our first dinner together.  I researched what bus to take, rode out to the suburbs and then we turned off the road I needed to continue onto for another mile to get to the restaurant.  Seems the bus didn't go where it seemed like it went on the map, or maybe only certain ones go down that street, whatever, it was completely confusing.  I got off the bus and asked the driver what bus I could get on that would take me down that road and he had no idea.  I got 3 different answers from the next 3 buses that came by. Meanwhile, it was raining pretty hard and I was not wearing good walking shoes and there was no way I could walk, I didn't even have an umbrella (no rain was forecast at all and it was a beautiful day when I left that morning).  I walked about half a mile to a Wal-mart so I could buy an umbrella and come back to the bus stop to continue waiting and the rain turned to a monsoon.  Absolutely the worst rain I have ever been in in my life.  There of course was no bus shelter.  Everyone who was waiting for the bus helped each other get inside the nearest building, a Mr. Hero.  We actually had to rescue kids who couldn't battle the wind that was accompanying the rain, carrying them inside.  Everyone was completely drenched from head to toe.  I called the 1 person I knew at the dinner and said I couldn't make it, telling them what happened, and they had to leave the dinner to come and pick me up from Mr. Hero.  It was humiliating. 

 

I  had to miss a LOT of other dinners with friends simply because there's no way to get from my suburb to where everyone was meeting for dinner.  If you only want to go to/from downtown and only during rush hour/business hour times, you can make it work, but if you want to go anywhere else, it's a nightmare.  I mean, it's a 25 minute drive from MH to, say, Independence, but to take a bus there would require an hour and a half and that's assuming all the buses showed up when they were supposed to.  Then there'd be no way for you to get home because the buses quit running after a certain hour.

 

IMO, this town is not set up for complete non-car living unless you plan to live, work and do ALL your socializing in and around downtown or Ohio City.

I also wanted to mention that my friends got pretty tired of picking me up and giving me rides different places, and that I had to miss a lot of doctor/dentist appointments because I couldn't get a ride there and taking the bus would take way too much time.  For example, I have a particular issue that requires me to see a specialist.  I found a great specialist but the person is in S. Euclid and I haven't found anyone better.  I have to visit the specialist twice a year.  Taking a bus to and from that office during the work day would be absolutely, positively impossible as I would be gone half the day.

 

I would love to read the previous poster's book to find out what I was missing, since my car-free year here was the worst one I've had in 14 years of living in Cleveland.