Jump to content

Cincinnati: Crime & Safety Discussion

WhoDey
in City Discussion

Featured Replies

Not to mention almost daily fatal car wrecks...

  • Replies 3k
  • Views 126.1k
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Days

Most Popular Posts

  • ryanlammi
    ryanlammi

    There's not really any indication that it was a direct gift from Mussolini. It's been reported that a local organization sent a letter to request a statue to Mussolini. He approved of the idea, and it

  • ryanlammi
    ryanlammi

    8:46pm is hardly the afternoon. Very little crime like this is random. It's almost always people who know each other. There's not much of a need to use more precaution than you typically would when li

  • DEPACincy
    DEPACincy

    I fail to see how blaring classical music to run people off is going to help OTR business owners or its reputation as a popular destination spot.    Seriously, what are you basing this "OTR

Posted Images

Nobody cares about 50,000 annual deaths by automobile in the US.  They are more concerned about 600 annual deaths in Iraq.

Not to mention almost daily fatal car wrecks...

 

I can think of two shootings on I-75 in recent memory, why isn't anyone saying "Who would want to drive on the highways with all these gun battles?"

 

Busses get in accidents too, so taking the bus doesn't prevent someone from getting hurt or killed in an auto accident.

 

Those "gun battles" on 75 do not involve people coming into your car and shooting you, as this incident did. Also, if a bus was on 75 at the time of one of these battles, passengers could be shot as well.

Carjacking is all about people coming into your car often with a loaded gun. They still happen but they aren't blasted on the front pages like they were in the early 90s when they were the in vogue crime. This crime sounds like it could have happened anywhere because it was about love lost.

Some road-raged nut job pulled out a gun and pointed it at my mother on an interstate, can't remember which one.

114 individuals die each day in automobile accidents;

41,610 individuals die each year in automobile accidents;

6,289,000 automobile accidents occur each year;

94% of all transportation deaths occur in an automobile.

 

The reason that those stories do not make the front page, unless it is something of a gross violation -- such as the road rage gun toting incident that I posted earlier, is because we have become insensitive of the situation because it occurs so frequently. Most of us probably know at least one person in our life that has been injured or died in an automobile crash.

 

But because the remaining 6% of incidents occur on public transport, and frequently involves many more individuals in a collective sense, it makes headlines. An airliner going down in the Atlantic Ocean killing over 200 makes news because it killed 200 all at once. So does a train that derails and kills 20. Even a bus that flips over and kills most of its occupants makes headlines.

 

Relating to the Metro incident, that was an event that affected the individuals on the bus, not just one or two. A crazed individuals opening fire on innocent riders of public transport makes headlines, such as the single beheading on a Canadian bus a few years ago. But at the same time, so did the person waving a gun around at another driver on Interstate 275. Both incidents were posted and are fair game because they were either extreme incidents or involved numerous individuals.

Some road-raged nut job pulled out a gun and pointed it at my mother on an interstate, can't remember which one.

 

How many do you have?  ;)

Sherman, I think another reason why the numerous deaths affect us more, is the false feeling of control we have in our personal automobile.  Every one of us thinks we could avoid the headon collision or the spin off the road when we hear about them, but the plane crashing into a mountain is beyond our personal control.

Some road-raged nut job pulled out a gun and pointed it at my mother on an interstate, can't remember which one.

 

How many do you have?  ;)

 

By that, I meant I don't remember if this was when we were living in OH or MS.

114 individuals die each day in automobile accidents;

41,610 individuals die each year in automobile accidents;

6,289,000 automobile accidents occur each year;

94% of all transportation deaths occur in an automobile.

 

The reason that those stories do not make the front page, unless it is something of a gross violation -- such as the road rage gun toting incident that I posted earlier, is because we have become insensitive of the situation because it occurs so frequently. Most of us probably know at least one person in our life that has been injured or died in an automobile crash.

 

But because the remaining 6% of incidents occur on public transport, and frequently involves many more individuals in a collective sense, it makes headlines. An airliner going down in the Atlantic Ocean killing over 200 makes news because it killed 200 all at once. So does a train that derails and kills 20. Even a bus that flips over and kills most of its occupants makes headlines.

 

Relating to the Metro incident, that was an event that affected the individuals on the bus, not just one or two. A crazed individuals opening fire on innocent riders of public transport makes headlines, such as the single beheading on a Canadian bus a few years ago. But at the same time, so did the person waving a gun around at another driver on Interstate 275. Both incidents were posted and are fair game because they were either extreme incidents or involved numerous individuals.

 

Does anyone know where we can find similar stats for just the Cincy area?

If we're going to put every single article about city crimes, better be fair and put in the suburban hell crimes as well.

 

Man shot outside Harper's Point Apts.

 

SYMMES TOWNSHIP - A 33-year-old man was shot early Saturday morning outside the clubhouse of the Harper's Point apartments in this northern Hamilton County suburb.

 

 

http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20090606/NEWS01/906070337/1055/NEWS/Man+shot+outside+Harper+s+Point+Apts.

 

The victim died. Both men were from Cincinnati. Im not sure why they were at that location. Maybe illegal gambling.

Donations can be made to Fifth Third Bank's Joyce Baresel Fund. Saw this in the comments --

 

"A benefit on her behalf is being held in Mt. Adams on Saturday, June 27th to help raise money to cover her medical expenses. The cost is $20, which gives you a wristband and drink specials at 5 or more bars in Mt. Adams."

 

Are there any more details?

 

Rock thrower injures woman in car

By Quan Truong, Cincinnati Enquirer, June 18, 2009

 

Motorists who use Columbia Parkway near downtown are rattled after three incidents this month where large rocks were hurled at vehicles, damaging more than a dozen of them – 11 in one incident – and leaving a woman hospitalized with severe facial injuries.

Note sure if this has been posted, but a coworker just tweeted this:

 

25 Most Dangerous Neighborhoods

http://www.walletpop.com/insurance/most-dangerous-neighborhoods?icid=main|htmlws-main|dl3|link3|

 

Why neighborhoods and not cities? Even the cities with the highest crime rates can have relatively safe neighborhoods, and thus it is less useful to generalize about an entire city. But using exclusive data developed by Dr. Schiller at NeighborhoodScout.com, and based on FBI data from all 17,000 local law enforcement agencies, our gallery counts down the 25 neighborhoods with the highest predicted rates of violent crime in America.

 

    * 25) Chicago, Ill. (Winchester, Ave./60th St.)

    * 24) Chicago, Ill. (Wallace St./58th St.)

    * 23) Detroit, Mich. (Mount Elliott St./Palmer Ave.)

    * 22) Orlando, Fla. (East-West Expy/Orange Blossom Trl.)

    * 21) Cleveland, Ohio (Cedar Ave./55th St.)

    * 20) Baltimore, Md. (Orleans St./Front St.)

    * 19) Chicago, Ill. (66th St./Yale Ave.)

    * 18) New York, N.Y. (St. Nicholas Ave./125th St.)

    * 17) Tampa, Fla. (Amelia Ave./Tampa St.)

    * 16) Philadelphia, Pa. (Broad St./Dauphin St.)

    * 15) Little Rock, Ark. (Roosevelt Rd./Bond St.)

    * 14) St. Louis, Mo. (14th St./Dr. Martin Luther King Dr.)

    * 13) Springfield, Ill. (Cook St./11th St.)

    * 12) Dallas, Texas (2nd Ave./Hatcher St.)

    * 11) Memphis, Tenn. (Bellevue Blvd./Lamar Ave.)

    * 10) Richmond, Va. (Church Hill)

    * 9) Dallas, Texas (Route 352/Scyene Rd.)

    * 8) Kansas City, Mo. (Forest Ave./41st St.)

    * 7) Memphis, Tenn. (Warford St./Mount Olive Rd.)

    * 6) Kansas City, Mo. (Bales Ave./30th St.)

    * 5) Baltimore, Md.(North Ave./Belair Rd.)

    * 4) Jacksonville, Fla. (Beaver St./Broad St.)

    * 3) Miami, Fla. (7th Ave./North River Dr.)

    * 2) Chicago, Ill. (State St./Garfield Blvd.)

    * 1) Cincinnati, Ohio (Central Pky./Liberty St.)

I definatly don't agree, and it is terrible P.R. for the neighborhood when rankings like this come out. It's hard enough to convince people that it's changing with out press releases like this coming out. 

If you combine historical data with that of current data and then make an overall statement, there is a possibility that OTR/West End was one of the most dangerous neighborhoods in the United States. I will argue that that OTR is no longer the most dangerous neighborhood in the United States, based on five-year crime data.

The only way they could arrive at this figure is if they used some kind of spectacularly undercounted population figure, which is what I believe they did.  They likely simply went by residents, not weekday workers, daily visitors, and people who drive and ride a bus through the area each day. 

 

Honestly, someone with the ability to do so should sue these places when they publish crap like this.   

yeah, i don't know how they came up with this data. I mean, it seems like they took the number of crimes and divided by the population. well, the population in that neighborhood is relatively small (especially since the cut off the East side of Vine Street and the work there) compared to the number of people that pass through the neighborhood.

 

So, if you were to compare the actual number of people passing through to the crime the rate would be much less than 1 in 4.

 

This sort of "study" is such a quick and dirty way of making headlines and getting all the "haters" riled up about how dangerous the inner city really is.

 

PS...isn't OTR as a neighborhood bigger than that? or does it really terminate at Vine St?

irhine_map.jpg

Yeah, the only used a faction of OTR, and probably the worst fraction of it...  By worst, I mean most of the violent crime there is commited by outsiders against outsiders, and those particular blocks are very underpopulated.  If you read the full methodolgy, they say it's based on crimes per 1,000 residents and crimes per square mile. 

 

Still smells of "gerrymandering" to me, though, as there's never a really clear description of how they arrived at their "sub-zip code neighbohoods."  I'm sure I could cherry pick blocks of almost any city and get a completely different top 25 list.

They say they "collect and aggregate data from local law enforcement agencies", which

"provides an accurate representation of the total crimes ... within any given city." 

 

Then "uses proprietary computer models it develops to statistically estimate incidences of both violent and property crimes for every sub-zip code neighborhood in the U.S based on the aggregate crime data for the municipality containing that neighborhood "

 

So its their "estimate."

 

It would also be nice if they showed their estimates for all the adjoining neighborhoods.

... and the Enquirer and all the commenters are having a field day with this at enquirer.com

Okay, so I figured it out.  The study is reffering only to Census Tract 16.

 

The article says "with a violent crime rate of 266.94 per 1,000 population and 457 predicted annual violent crimes." Using this we can figure out the projected population of the neighborhood. 457/266.94*1000= 1711.  The population of Tract 16 in the 2000 census=1712.  the west and south boundaries of tract 16? Liberty and Central Parkway. 

 

This should be a map of Tract 16. 

 

http://factfinder.census.gov/servlet/MapItDrawServlet?geo_id=14000US39061001600&_bucket_id=50&tree_id=420&context=saff&_lang=en&_sse=on

134829227.gif

That is a pretty bad area, and it doesn't include the Gateway Quarter or Main St., so it could be possible...

That is a pretty bad area, and it doesn't include the Gateway Quarter or Main St., so it could be possible...

i don't think anyone is disputing the numbers they used, merely the methodology that allowed them to come to the conclusion.  their process allowed them to come up with the results they desired.

 

Unfortunately it doesn't provide the whole picture of the neighborhood.  Of course, the Enquirer didn't do anything to explain that.

^And this is the real crime. It becomes so obvious in instances like this that The Enquirer honestly doesn't give a damn about this city -- they could have simply not linked to this study because it's so obviously flawed.   

This really pees me off!!!!! :whip:

 

Over-the-Rhine Most Dangerous Neighborhood in U.S.

 

Last Update: 12:52 pm

 

 

Is Over-the-Rhine safer than it used to be?

Yes (12.8%)

No (87.2%)

Over-the-Rhine

 

    * Neighborhoodscout.com list of Dangerous Cities

 

A website which provides crime data for insurance companies says the Over-the-Rhine area is the most dangerous neighborhood in the United States.

 

NeighborhoodScout.com says it used proprietary computer models to estimate incidences of violent crimes, including murder, non-negligent manslaughter, rape, armed robbery and aggravated assault, for every sub-zip code neighborhood in the U.S. The crime statistics come from local law enforcement agencies and the F.B.I. for the years 2005-2007.

 

Using their model, Neighborhoodscout.com ranks the zip codes 45210 and 45214, in Over-the-Rhine, as number one most dangerous in the United States.

 

The website says your chances of becoming a victim of crime in OTR over the course of one year, are 1 in 4.

 

The next four most dangerous neighborhoods, according to Neighborhoodscout.com, are found in Chicago, Miami, Jacksonville, FL, and Baltimore, Maryland.

 

http://www.local12.com/news/local/story/Over-the-Rhine-Most-Dangerous-Neighborhood-in-U-S/S_ZVE9utW0OmcH1WTxsKlA.cspx

"Using their model, Neighborhoodscout.com ranks the zip codes 45210 and 45214, in Over-the-Rhine, as number one most dangerous in the United States."

 

45214 is the West End.  45210 is the extreme NW Corner of the Neighbhorhood.

This is interesting, From the methodology of the Study:

 

"Violent crimes included are the violent crimes from the FBI's Uniform Crime Reports: murder and non-negligent manslaughter, forcible rape, armed robbery, and aggravated assault. Based on multiple years of data, and predicted to the individual neighborhood level by NeighborhoodScout's exclusive crime models, we list the top 25 most dangerous. The rating is based on the predicted number of violent crimes in the neighborhood per 1,000 population of the neighborhood."

 

Okay.

 

Here is what they list for Census Tract 16:

 

"1. Cincinnati, Ohio

 

Neighborhood: Central Pky./Liberty St.

Found Within ZIP Code(s): 45210, 45214

Predicted Annual Violent Crimes: 457

Violent Crime Rate (per 1,000): 266.94

My Chances of Becoming a Victim Here (in one year): 1 in 4"

 

Now Lets look at the Crime Stats in OTR for 2007:

 

murder and non-negligent manslaughter: 8

forcible rape: 25

armed robbery: 242

aggravated assault: 115

Total: 390

http://cincinnati-oh.gov/police/downloads/police_pdf15590.pdf

 

So if all of OTR has 390 violent crimes in 2007, why would they project 457 violent crimes in 1/4th of the neighborhood?

According to 2000 Census OTR has 7638 people.  At 390 violent crimes in 2007, the violent rate per 1000 would be 51.6 (1/2 of the 25th Most Dangerous Neighbhorhood)

the completely useless stat: "My Chances of Becoming a Victim Here (in one year):" would be 1 in 20

They selectively picked the areas they wanted to tell the story they wanted to tell and the story that sells to the suburban audience they appeal to.  I can and have posted statistics that show the contrary.  The fact is that safety in a community is only technical to a certain point, from there it's subjective.  Some people may feel comfortable there, while others don't.  So who's right?

 

Reality is taking a stroll through the neighborhood and making up your own mind based on your own experiences.  Ronny did a fantastic piece (posted above) on his blog that combines the two.  He examines the technical statistics, while combining that with his personal experiences from doing ride-alongs with Cincinnati Police officers and his own journeys learning about the neighborhoods history and future.

45210 used to be my zip in Prospect Hill about 4 years ago. Some people still use 45210 here.

 

This is interesting, From the methodology of the Study:

 

"Violent crimes included are the violent crimes from the FBI's Uniform Crime Reports: murder and non-negligent manslaughter, forcible rape, armed robbery, and aggravated assault. Based on multiple years of data, and predicted to the individual neighborhood level by NeighborhoodScout's exclusive crime models, we list the top 25 most dangerous. The rating is based on the predicted number of violent crimes in the neighborhood per 1,000 population of the neighborhood."

 

Okay.

 

Here is what they list for Census Tract 16:

 

"1. Cincinnati, Ohio

 

Neighborhood: Central Pky./Liberty St.

Found Within ZIP Code(s): 45210, 45214

Predicted Annual Violent Crimes: 457

Violent Crime Rate (per 1,000): 266.94

My Chances of Becoming a Victim Here (in one year): 1 in 4"

 

Now Lets look at the Crime Stats in OTR for 2007:

 

murder and non-negligent manslaughter: 8

forcible rape: 25

armed robbery: 242

aggravated assault: 115

Total: 390

http://cincinnati-oh.gov/police/downloads/police_pdf15590.pdf

 

So if all of OTR has 390 violent crimes in 2007, why would they project 457 violent crimes in 1/4th of the neighborhood?

 

So some more data

 

OTR total Violent Crime:

 

2005: 606

2006: 415

2007: 390

 

This averages out to be 470 over 3 years, more than the 457 that they "predict" for Census tract 16.  I can't figure out how they came up with that number.  Any ideas?

 

Apparently, the area of OTR west of Vine Street and north of Liberty Street is the #1 most dangerous neighborhood.  I was skeptical too, but take a look at the statistics and the other neighborhoods that charted.

 

#1 (OTR): 

Full list:  http://www.walletpop.com/insurance/most-dangerous-neighborhoods

 

I still think that OTR should NOT be consider such a large neighborhood.  In reality, the neighborhood north of Liberty Street is a completely different animal, and is facing even sharper neglect than the fortunate areas south of Liberty.  Also, we should to focusing more attention on areas of OTR west of Race.  There are so many residential structures in alleys that surely have been abandoned for decades.

The FBI Unified Crime Report (online) has a big fat warning about comparing stats between jurisdictions due to differences in reporting crimes.  So take that ranking with a grain of salt.

 

 

^Exactly...and from my understanding New Orleans doesn't even release their numbers (hence why they never show up on these lists).

And the Cincy blogosphere is off and running...

 

UrbanCincy - http://www.urbancincy.com/2009/06/intellectually-dishonest-report-claims.html

Queen City Survey - http://queencitysurvey.blogspot.com/2009/06/over-rhine-is-not-what-they-said.html

5chw4r7z - http://5chw4r7z.blogspot.com/2009/06/this-this-is-most-dangerous-place-in.html

Queen City Discovery - http://queencitydiscovery.blogspot.com/2009/06/is-cincinnati-home-to-most-dangerous.html

Channel 12 actually did a very good debunking story on this in the 6:00 newscast.

Channel 12 actually did a very good debunking story on this in the 6:00 newscast.

 

Really??? I'll have to check it out.

So...instead of complaining about the method they used to deduce this, why don't we actually question the relatively non-existent activity in the Northern Liberties?  Virtually no development or attention has been placed north of Liberty.

 

Seriously, everyone, north of Liberty is not the same neighborhood as the OTR we usually think about.  Think about how people refer to all of the UC area as Clifton.  It creates an *inaccurate* interpretation of several neighborhoods' reputations.  I think that splitting such a large area into two smaller neighborhoods, as they naturally are, it would help to improve OTR's reputation and further promote investment.  Furthermore, it would allow new light to be shone on a truly neglected area.

I feel the study bolsters the case for the need to proactively encourage economic development in OTR.  It should be a wake-up call to anyone who's satisfied with the status quo in the neighborhood.

 

We can argue about the methodology of the study, but the method was universally applied. 

 

There's no denying that OTR and particularly the West End are grim areas when it comes to crime and it's humiliating that they've caused us a Number One ranking we'd rather not have.  But this is ALL THE MORE REASON something like the streetcar is needed, and needed badly.  The alternative -- doing nothing major to promote economic development -- will only allow conditions to fester and worsen.  By working against the streetcar proposal, opponents are in effect fighting to maintain a #1 crime status.

 

 

 

 

It's is the notoriety of #1 that is so gob-smacking. If it was at the bottom of a top ten list then it would jive more with how those spots feel on the ground.

Channel 12 actually did a very good debunking story on this in the 6:00 newscast.

 

Couldn't find video but here's the article.

 

 

Believers Putting Money in Over-The-Rhine

http://www.local12.com/news/local/story/Believers-Putting-Money-in-Over-The-Rhine/hriz70-Fe0an0i3AfmF_zw.cspx

Last Update: 5:42 pm

 

 

Over-The-Rhine Four of the most dangerous neighborhoods in the country are in Chicago, two are in Memphis, two in Baltimore. But the most dangerous neighborhood in the United States is Over-The-Rhine. The findings are based on a computer formula that looked at statistics from law enforcement agencies and the FBI.

 

But, local officials argue the information is just wrong. Local 12's Paula Toti visited Over-The-Rhine with their side of the story:

 

 

^As I said before, the listing as the most dangerous neighborhood didn't target OTR as a whole...yet the local media is treating it as such.

 

Urban Cincy story Dugg - http://digg.com/business_finance/Dishonest_report_claims_OTR_is_most_dangerous_city_in_US

"It's just fate, as usual, keeping its bargain and screwing us in the fine print..." - John Crichton

  • 2 weeks later...

Create an account or sign in to comment

Go to topic listing

Recently Browsing 0

  • No registered users viewing this page.