Please.  Deters is an opportunist.  He's never actually "outraged".  It's all an act with these types of guys -- these types get where they are because they have no true friendships, loyalties, or principals.  Every time he gets on the radio he says whatever crime is "the most disgusting in my career...".  He's playing with the public's emotions just like a trail lawyer plays with a jury's emotions. Meanwhile he got booted from state office for bribery and his personal life, if rumors are to be believed, is fairly scandalous. 

I don't care about his personal life.

 

I look at it this way. It's like when celebrities make donations. People can think whatever they want about the reasoning, but it's still a donation at the end of the day.

 

If he's outraged and pursues change for political reasons, so what? It's still beneficial at the end of the day. I don't care what his reasons are for doing so.

If anyone wants to have evidence Officer Tensing wanted to kill DuBose, find a stabilized version of the video. It's horrifying. Literally an execution. Until I saw the stabilized version, it was too shaky for me to say he deserves murder because you couldn't tell what was happening in the scuffle. Now I can't see a way he won't be convicted.

Hmm He opened the door in that youtube video as well.

If anyone wants to have evidence Officer Tensing wanted to kill DuBose, find a stabilized version of the video. It's horrifying. Literally an execution. Until I saw the stabilized version, it was too shaky for me to say he deserves murder because you couldn't tell what was happening in the scuffle. Now I can't see a way he won't be convicted.

 

I saw the stabilized version this morning, but still think the murder charge is going to be extremely difficult to prove. The shooting looks more shocking when stabilized because you see the event more clearly - it's far more visceral. What it also shows clearly is that Dubose started the ignition, reached over to put the car in drive, and started to move the vehicle immediately before the shot was fired. You also see that Tensing reached into the car, perhaps to grab the keys and turn off the ignition. He then grabs the seat belt with one hand and his weapon with the other, and quickly shoots. He may have been losing his balance and thought he would fall under the car - something that the raw footage shows, but the "stabilized" version completely erases. To me, that is an effect of manipulating the video, something Jake alluded to above.

 

Ultimately the question is whether or not Tensing reasonably thought he was going to be run over. Graham v. Connor will be an important precedent in this case - at least for the defense.

If anyone wants to have evidence Officer Tensing wanted to kill DuBose, find a stabilized version of the video. It's horrifying. Literally an execution. Until I saw the stabilized version, it was too shaky for me to say he deserves murder because you couldn't tell what was happening in the scuffle. Now I can't see a way he won't be convicted.

 

I saw the stabilized version this morning, but still think the murder charge is going to be extremely difficult to prove. The shooting looks more shocking when stabilized because you see the event more clearly - it's far more visceral. What it also shows clearly is that Dubose started the ignition, reached over to put the car in drive, and started to move the vehicle immediately before the shot was fired. You also see that Tensing reached into the car, perhaps to grab the keys and turn off the ignition. He then grabs the seat belt with one hand and his weapon with the other, and quickly shoots. He may have been losing his balance and thought he would fall under the car - something that the raw footage shows, but the "stabilized" version completely erases. To me, that is an effect of manipulating the video, something Jake alluded to above.

 

Ultimately the question is whether or not Tensing reasonably thought he was going to be run over. Graham v. Connor will be an important precedent in this case - at least for the defense.

 

Deters is claiming that Tensing fell over because of the recoil from the handgun, not because he was hit by the car or was off-balance.  This will be a huge point of contention in the trial and is an illustration of how videos rarely, rarely, rarely illustrate the entire context of an event. 

Hmm He opened the door in that youtube video as well.

 

Yep, man I got chills watching that. Felt like he was waiting for any sudden movement from those guys and pull out the pistol.

He also lied about opening the door, those guys busted him on camera.

If anyone wants to have evidence Officer Tensing wanted to kill DuBose, find a stabilized version of the video. It's horrifying. Literally an execution. Until I saw the stabilized version, it was too shaky for me to say he deserves murder because you couldn't tell what was happening in the scuffle. Now I can't see a way he won't be convicted.

 

When you stop the video right before the shot, Dubose had both hands up. scary

My first instinct would be to free my self if dragged. Not shoot instantly not knowing what's going to happen to the car after being dragged. The car ended down the street from this guy. If he was dragged wouldn't he be still there with the car and with serious injuries????? The victim was not holding him what so ever. Even has his hands up.

 

 

Deters know more about murders than any of us. They have the best equipment to analyze the recording. They looked at EVERY angle and and AND the grand jury agreed to indict on the murder charge.

My first instinct would be to free my self if dragged. Not shoot instantly not knowing what's going to happen to the car after being dragged. The car ended down the street from this guy. If he was dragged wouldn't he be still there with the car and with serious injuries????? The victim was not holding him what so ever. Even has his hands up.

 

 

Deters know more about murders than any of us. They have the best equipment to analyze the recording. They looked at EVERY angle and and AND the grand jury agreed to indict on the murder charge.

 

He wasn't dragged. Dubose started the engine, put it gear, Tensing said stop, reached in grabbed the seat belt, pulled out his pistol and shot him point blank.

About 3 seconds max. Tensing might have fell down on purpose after he killed him.

This is going to repeat ad infinitum, just like mass shootings. America has deep structural problems that nobody has the political will to change.

We're incredibly warlike people.

Frame by frame

 

http://www.wlwt.com/news/news-5-investigates-ray-tensings-body-cam-video-frame-by-frame/34449428

As with Ferguson, Baltimore, etc., the group "Anonymous" was quite active last night on Twitter during Cincinnati's Black Lives Matter march. Appears they got into a war of words with a CPD officer known for tweeting. So much so he deleted his account (or they they hacked it and deleted it). They've also published address & phone number allegedly belonging to him.

The "Black Lives Matter" march started as usual at the Courthouse, but then blocked several streets as they went up Main and back down Walnut. Some hipsters cheered from behind the windows of the galleries and bars as it was Final Friday, but most people didn't take much notice. I had been planning to go to the Midpoint Summer Series concert on the Square but got word that the band packed up and left when the march ended up there and the participants chanted over the music. There were several arrests as the participants got rowdy. 

 

It's a shame because the security at the Fountain Square Midpoint concerts has been very lax. A few weeks ago some drunk guy found his way onto the stage to dance, and another week the band stopped playing to call a guy out for punching someone right in the front of the crowd. Word spread amongst bands, and I imagine we might not see as good of acts next year (hopefully no one cancels this year).

The cell phone video of Tensing's traffic stop in the Clifton Ave. UDF that appeared over the weekend was pretty disturbing.  We saw that Tensing had a pattern of pulling over motorists for minor infractions and then attempting the escalate the situation through bullying tactics.  The value of the body cameras should be supervisor reviews of officer behavior during routine situations as much as during violent altercations.  It's pretty obvious from the various videos that have emerged of Tensing that the guy had a pretty stereotypical issues with personal insecurity.  Put an insecure little man in a uniform and give him a badge and a gun and this is what you get.  None of that pertains the forthcoming criminal trial, but it absolutely does speak to the lack of oversight in allowing people with such obvious mental health issues to become police officers. 

 

And the larger is issue is if we outlawed handguns in the United States and police no longer carried them regularly as they do in Japan and other countries with virtually zero gun violence, would the same personalities be attracted to police work?  A simple indicator would be psychiatric profiles of firefighters versus police.  Way fewer opportunities to bully (and shoot!) strangers if you're a firefighter. 

 

 

 

Where is the video? I didn't see it posted up to Reddit today.

Where is the video? I didn't see it posted up to Reddit today.

 

I admit to not being able to sit through all 17 minutes of the video, but what I don't understand it why they give the officer such a hard time? Sounds like Tensing pulled them over because their bumper was dragging on the road which might be questionable, but why not just answer the questions asked by Tensing. If they do then they would likely go on their merry way. Frankly I give him credit, he was a lot more patient than I would have been with them. Imagine if you had to deal with that crap every time you pulled someone over.

Those videos have been rising in popularity over the past few years. People basically refusing to answer the officer's questions, saying that they're not legally required to do so. And also asking "am I being detained?" like those are the magic words that will make the officer let you go. Most of these I've seen have been made by Libertarian-leaning white guys who are trying to make a point about government abuse of power or whatever.

 

Seriously, just answer the officer's questions. Don't make their day more difficult. And they will let you go (as long as you haven't broken the law).

^ They were giving him a "hard time" because he was insisting on getting the identity of the passenger, and they felt like they had the right to decline that request. I am not enough of an expert to know whether they were correct legally, but I respect the general principle expressed by the driver (to paraphrase): If you are going to write me a ticket, write me a ticket. You don't need to talk to my passenger."

WLW is now confirming that Dubose had 2 pounds of pot and $2600 in cash in his car when he was shot. I heard it last week but this is the first confirmation I've seen about it. It explains why Dubose was trying to flee. Running from the cops over a suspended license didn't make much sense to me.

^ They were giving him a "hard time" because he was insisting on getting the identity of the passenger, and they felt like they had the right to decline that request. I am not enough of an expert to know whether they were correct legally, but I respect the general principle expressed by the driver (to paraphrase): If you are going to write me a ticket, write me a ticket. You don't need to talk to my passenger."

 

And what is wrong with getting the identity of the passenger?

 

Did Tensing ask for ID and they wouldn't give it? Isn't that a requirement? I heard him ask for his name and birthday and the driver wouldn't give it.

^ They were giving him a "hard time" because he was insisting on getting the identity of the passenger, and they felt like they had the right to decline that request. I am not enough of an expert to know whether they were correct legally, but I respect the general principle expressed by the driver (to paraphrase): If you are going to write me a ticket, write me a ticket. You don't need to talk to my passenger."

And what is wrong with getting the identity of the passenger?

 

Did Tensing ask for ID and they wouldn't give it? Isn't that a requirement? I heard him ask for his name and birthday and the driver wouldn't give it.

Because he had nothing to do with the infraction. If you were walking down the street and the police stopped and asked you for your id would you do it? Multiply that several times over the course of a few years.

 

 

^ They were giving him a "hard time" because he was insisting on getting the identity of the passenger, and they felt like they had the right to decline that request. I am not enough of an expert to know whether they were correct legally, but I respect the general principle expressed by the driver (to paraphrase): If you are going to write me a ticket, write me a ticket. You don't need to talk to my passenger."

 

Yeah, write the ticket and let em go. Tensing opened the door without permission. He wanted to see if they had booze or drugs. He wanted the name of

the passenger so he could run his name for outstanding warrants, no probable cause though.

^ They were giving him a "hard time" because he was insisting on getting the identity of the passenger, and they felt like they had the right to decline that request. I am not enough of an expert to know whether they were correct legally, but I respect the general principle expressed by the driver (to paraphrase): If you are going to write me a ticket, write me a ticket. You don't need to talk to my passenger."

And what is wrong with getting the identity of the passenger?

 

Did Tensing ask for ID and they wouldn't give it? Isn't that a requirement? I heard him ask for his name and birthday and the driver wouldn't give it.

Because he had nothing to do with the infraction. If you were walking down the street and the police stopped and asked you for your id would you do it? Multiply that several times over the course of a few years.

 

I've driven down the street and had police stop me for nothing more than just driving on a street. You know what I did? Answered the cops questions. You know what they did? Let me go.

 

I realize that Tensing may have been sniffing around and I'm not saying that he is/was a great cop, but if you follow simple orders you'll get in a lot less trouble.

^ They were giving him a "hard time" because he was insisting on getting the identity of the passenger, and they felt like they had the right to decline that request. I am not enough of an expert to know whether they were correct legally, but I respect the general principle expressed by the driver (to paraphrase): If you are going to write me a ticket, write me a ticket. You don't need to talk to my passenger."

 

Yeah, write the ticket and let em go. Tensing opened the door without permission. He wanted to see if they had booze or drugs. He wanted the name of

the passenger so he could run his name for outstanding warrants, no probable cause though.

 

He asked for name and DOB yet the driver wouldn't give it. Maybe stuff happened before the video, but the driver refused to answer very simple questions which escalated the situation.

^  Should Mr. Dubose been arrested for his actions? Yes.  Were his actions deserving of death? Absolutely not.  Saying, don't perform a misdemeanor or a low level felony or else you'll die is not how our system works.  Death is not an equivalent punishment to resisting arrest, not following a police order, etc. 

 

Multiple cops have said: Officer Tensing should not have reached into the vehicle or tried to open the individuals door.  When Mr. Dubose began to drive away he should have called in back up to pursue the vehicle or track it down at its home address via the license plate on the back.  He would have been arrested within a day and taken to jail. But he would still be alive.

^  Should Mr. Dubose been arrested for his actions? Yes.  Were his actions deserving of death? Absolutely not.  Saying, don't perform a misdemeanor or a low level felony or else you'll die is not how our system works.  Death is not an equivalent punishment to resisting arrest, not following a police order, etc. 

 

Multiple cops have said: Officer Tensing should not have reached into the vehicle or tried to open the individuals door.  When Mr. Dubose began to drive away he should have called in back up to pursue the vehicle or track it down at its home address via the license plate on the back.  He would have been arrested within a day and taken to jail. But he would still be alive.

 

Anyone familiar with the Rice St. area knows that it's very easy for police to block points of exit, and backup was en route anyway.  And if he escaped, they obviously had plates and a description of the vehicle.  Not a huge deal to track the guy down. 

 

^ They were giving him a "hard time" because he was insisting on getting the identity of the passenger, and they felt like they had the right to decline that request. I am not enough of an expert to know whether they were correct legally, but I respect the general principle expressed by the driver (to paraphrase): If you are going to write me a ticket, write me a ticket. You don't need to talk to my passenger."

 

Yeah, write the ticket and let em go. Tensing opened the door without permission. He wanted to see if they had booze or drugs. He wanted the name of

the passenger so he could run his name for outstanding warrants, no probable cause though.

 

He asked for name and DOB yet the driver wouldn't give it. Maybe stuff happened before the video, but the driver refused to answer very simple questions which escalated the situation.

 

They had the driver's license prior to the start of the video. They ran the plates, his name, and checked with the city for any violations. The cop supervisor said at the end of the video we are going to write up the violation and you can exercise whatever your rights are etc.

^  Should Mr. Dubose been arrested for his actions? Yes.  Were his actions deserving of death? Absolutely not.  Saying, don't perform a misdemeanor or a low level felony or else you'll die is not how our system works.  Death is not an equivalent punishment to resisting arrest, not following a police order, etc. 

 

Multiple cops have said: Officer Tensing should not have reached into the vehicle or tried to open the individuals door.  When Mr. Dubose began to drive away he should have called in back up to pursue the vehicle or track it down at its home address via the license plate on the back.  He would have been arrested within a day and taken to jail. But he would still be alive.

 

Absolutely no one has said that someone deserves to die for a misdemeanor. Where on earth did you get that from? I also never said anything that Tensing did was right.

^ They were giving him a "hard time" because he was insisting on getting the identity of the passenger, and they felt like they had the right to decline that request. I am not enough of an expert to know whether they were correct legally, but I respect the general principle expressed by the driver (to paraphrase): If you are going to write me a ticket, write me a ticket. You don't need to talk to my passenger."

 

Yeah, write the ticket and let em go. Tensing opened the door without permission. He wanted to see if they had booze or drugs. He wanted the name of

the passenger so he could run his name for outstanding warrants, no probable cause though.

 

He asked for name and DOB yet the driver wouldn't give it. Maybe stuff happened before the video, but the driver refused to answer very simple questions which escalated the situation.

 

They had the driver's license prior to the start of the video. They ran the plates, his name, and checked with the city for any violations. The cop supervisor said at the end of the video we are going to write up the violation and you can exercise whatever your rights are etc.

 

So why wouldn't he give his DOB?

So why wouldn't he give his DOB?

 

Because the passenger isn't obligated to give his name or DOB. It's the same reason people peacefully protest, carry their guns openly in the street of open-carry states, or vote. They are using their constitutional rights to affect change or make a statement.

 

Everyone understands that it would have been easier for them (assuming the passenger had no warrants) to just give the officer the information. But if no one stands up for their rights, they get abused.

So at the very beginning of the video, the cop asks for the guys name and DOB? He says his name is Demetrius (I think). Is that the driver or the passenger? I assumed that was the driver and apologize if I was mistaken.

Demetrius was the passenger of the vehicle and the one recording the video. The driver allegedly gave his info to Tensing before the video started.

Then my apologies, I initially thought he was the driver. Looking back and noticing which way the car door is opened I should have realized it was the passenger.

Deters was right, this guy never should have been a cop, period.  I wonder if any of his colleagues ever noticed his aggressiveness on his traffic spots and said anything, or if any complaints were ever filed against him from any of his colleagues or citizens.

 

Sad story all around and at the very very least he will get manslaughter but I am certain they will go hard for the murder charge.

Should gofundme be used for defense funds? I mean it could give incentives for many people to do stuff they normally they would not do if they know they can get a great defense with money.

Should gofundme be used for defense funds? I mean it could give incentives for many people to do stuff they normally they would not do if they know they can get a great defense with money.

 

I'm pretty sure the crowd funding sites all shut down anything that has to do with any ongoing criminal prosecutions. They understandably don't want to touch that sort of thing with a 10 foot pole.

 

Though I imagine if your legal agenda aligned with the current popular politically correct agenda they'd probably allow it.

Officer Darren Wilson received approximately $500,000 via a gofundme campaign someone started for him. It paid legal fees and allowed him to buy a new house/move from the area.

What is this "current popular politically correct agenda"?

Officer Darren Wilson received approximately $500,000 via a gofundme campaign someone started for him. It paid legal fees and allowed him to buy a new house/move from the area.

 

I don't remember the timing, but I'd imagine as Wilson was not indicted, there was no legal gray area to avoid. Plus, Wilson could actually use the money as he ultimately did nothing wrong, but has been completely outcast from society. I was alluding to the recent efforts for Tensing, that have all been shut down to my knowledge.

Ticking time bomb?

 

http://www.wcpo.com/news/local-news/hamilton-county/cincinnati/ray-tensing-beaten-in-2010-fight-seemed-like-ticking-time-bomb-attorney-says

Ticking time bomb?

 

http://www.wcpo.com/news/local-news/hamilton-county/cincinnati/ray-tensing-beaten-in-2010-fight-seemed-like-ticking-time-bomb-attorney-says

 

The problem is that *a lot* of police officers become police officers because of an inferiority complex and other emotional issues that have haunted them their entire lives. 

 

Ticking time bomb?

 

http://www.wcpo.com/news/local-news/hamilton-county/cincinnati/ray-tensing-beaten-in-2010-fight-seemed-like-ticking-time-bomb-attorney-says

 

The problem is that *a lot* of police officers become police officers because of an inferiority complex and other emotional issues that have haunted them their entire lives. 

 

 

And after being a police officer in an urban area like Cleveland or Cincy, you've seen so much messed up stuff, dealt with so many dirtbags who had zero respect for the law or other human beings...  you are always on edge, ready to react, ready to defend yourself.  I worked with a guy who was a Cleveland cop.  He quit after he was shot at for the 3rd time in a couple months, worked 3rd district up near MLK/Cedar neighborhood, very dangerous.  No such thing as a simple traffic stop.

Shot 3 times in a couple months?  That is waaaaaaay outside the norm.  The overwhelmingly vast majority of Cleveland cops won't even be shot at their entire career, let alone shot.

This isn't limited to city police.  It's police in college towns too.  I think a lot of guys want to be taken seriously so bad, become a police officer to finally be able to order and push people around, but then they get disrespectful looks from pretty much everyone.  I had a Columbus police officer spit in my face after he realized he had handcuffed the wrong guy and gave me a big ridiculous lecture.  I had to do everything to keep from laughing at him and look like I was scared of him.  That's what he wanted -- that temporary power over someone. 

This isn't limited to city police.  It's police in college towns too.  I think a lot of guys want to be taken seriously so bad, become a police officer to finally be able to order and push people around, but then they get disrespectful looks from pretty much everyone.  I had a Columbus police officer spit in my face after he realized he had handcuffed the wrong guy and gave me a big ridiculous lecture.  I had to do everything to keep from laughing at him and look like I was scared of him.  That's what he wanted -- that temporary power over someone.

 

I agree with you about the police in college towns.  I believe everyone I know in Cedar Falls, IA and Iowa City, IA has received a public intoxication after walking out the bars in their respective districts, without causing a ruckus, just getting their quota. 

 

I knew a guy that played in the NFL and was back in town training.  He went over to a pizza spot / bar at around 1:45 am and went to open the door, thought it was stuck and pulled harder and it broke the latch.  The alarm went off and he waited for the police to arrive because he felt bad and didn't realize he broke the door, so he wanted to pay for it and settle with the pizza place.  Well the cops came and must have been freaked out he was 6'5" and 330 lbs., and they arrested him and charged him with public intoxication because he blew over the legal limit but didn't charge him with any vandalism charges, etc. 

 

Does the Cincinnati Police department ever hand out a lot of public intox charges like that?  I don't think I have ever witnessed someone being arrested outside of the bars since I have been in Cincinnati, and I am guessing it is because they don't have the time / resources to arrest bar goers for being over the legal limit especially when they are walking home or hopping in a cab.  In college, you would witness people being arrested for public intoxication almost every Thursday, Friday and Saturday even though they were always mere blocks from their residence.

Shot 3 times in a couple months?  That is waaaaaaay outside the norm.  The overwhelmingly vast majority of Cleveland cops won't even be shot at their entire career, let alone shot.

 

Projects near Woodland/Woodhill...  Quincy/105...  Buckeye/MLK

 

 

 

The problem is that *a lot* of police officers become police officers because of an inferiority complex and other emotional issues that have haunted them their entire lives. 

 

 

This is completely false Jake.