^ Correct.  Since you wouldn't consider unsolved murders that happened in the last 4 months of 2011 a bad thing. These things take time.

University of Cincinnati Students Charged For Graffiti

What's really bad is that, for college age art students, their artwork sucks.

 

http://www.local12.com/mostpopular/story/University-of-Cincinnati-Students-Charged-For/6hnPGVFV2EKlTXMD6PyR3A.cspx

There was a great article on Cincinnati.com about Chief Craigs rearrangement of the police department, leading to 50 more officers doing patrols.

 

Unfortunately The Enquirer has pulled the article and it's replaced by Page Not Found.

Sometimes when I can't find an article I find it in the NKY section. Try adding NKY to the URL.

Yeah, that graffiti sucks. 

Cross-post from City Council discussion:

The police audit is in. Some stuff looks good. Some, I don't know what good it will do. Like renaming the Vortex unit.....

Hiring pros to do IT work, better record keeping & better dissemination of info to officers all sound good.

I didn't see anything that said it really costs $1M to manage overtime or not. The linked article quotes the FOP boss as saying the city council made up that number but it was acting chief Jahnke who delivered the number to the council who thought it had to be less.

 

http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20120123/NEWS/301230074/

Cincinnati scrap laws put on hold another 2 weeks

http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20120124/NEWS01/301240136/Doubts-about-proposed-scrap-law-delay-city-action?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|FRONTPAGE

Unfortunately, a city solution isn't what's needed and even an Ohio solution will leave border states vulnerable.

that's rather funny.

I've met Greg Hand. He means you no harm!

Strange how crime works in the city. No murders in over a month, now 2 in 2 days. 6 for the year in almost 2 months in. No murder is acceptable but ill accept them numbers.

Winter is always the least crime. Spring and summer bring larger increases in crime.

Strange how crime works in the city. No murders in over a month, now 2 in 2 days. 6 for the year in almost 2 months in. No murder is acceptable but ill accept them numbers.

  For a bit of perspective, Detroit's murder count is currently 49.  Moreover they historically woefully undercount homicides which languish in limbo (e.g. two burned bodies found today not yet classified as "homicides" until cause of death is determined...which often never occurs due to incompetence in the crime lab; this also happens a lot with torsos found in empty buildings or vacant lots).  It's not just warm weather.

In some cities there are spikes  in crime in colder months which rival or surpass the summer spike. I believe it is due to the greater ease of concealing weapons when wearing layers. Fortunately, there doesn't seem to be a winter spike in Cincy.

Strange how crime works in the city. No murders in over a month, now 2 in 2 days. 6 for the year in almost 2 months in. No murder is acceptable but ill accept them numbers.

  For a bit of perspective, Detroit's murder count is currently 49.  Moreover they historically woefully undercount homicides which languish in limbo (e.g. two burned bodies found today not yet classified as "homicides" until cause of death is determined...which often never occurs due to incompetence in the crime lab; this also happens a lot with torsos found in empty buildings or vacant lots).  It's not just warm weather.

 

Or the 9 month old that was recently shot in Detroit, or as of Monday, the 14 year old that shot and killed his mother.  I have heard Detroit has been having some problems with violence against toddlers and such.

I was in Michigan the other week and someone was telling me their friend in Detroit recently had someone shot and killed on their street.  They called the police and it took two hours before the first cruiser appeared.  So the body laid their the whole time, quite literally vulnerable to dogs or anything else that might have come along.  These sorts of stories are common in Detroit. 

In some cities there are spikes  in crime in colder months which rival or surpass the summer spike. I believe it is due to the greater ease of concealing weapons when wearing layers. Fortunately, there doesn't seem to be a winter spike in Cincy.

 

You raised a major crime issue in Cincinnati regardless.  The chances of someone pulling a gun on you and demanding your belongings in the winter is high.  One reason there aere so many robberies in the summer is based in Cincinnati's demographics, with even more blacks than usual walking relatively long distances.  That and OTR, Westwood, Fairmount and Avondale are absolutely notorious for street robbery, all but Fairmount being among Cincinnati's largest communities.  A lot of thieves in these areas will use their own comrades as ATMs, so when they see lonely outsiders, dollar signs pop into their head.

Quick question: is there a way to get a good side-by-side comparison of city crime rates from 2011? I've been poking around online without finding anything. The Wikipedia article is in a convenient format, but the data is from 2010.

Quick question: is there a way to get a good side-by-side comparison of city crime rates from 2011? I've been poking around online without finding anything. The Wikipedia article is in a convenient format, but the data is from 2010.

 

Side by side with other cities or other years?  I have both... well, for 2010 and previously.  2011's numbers aren't all out yet according to the FBI site.

With other cities, sorry. Like if I wanted to see Cincinnati's murder rate compared to, say, Indianapolis', or Chicago's, or Pittsburgh's, without actually doing the population math myself (I'm lazy), there's no way to find that for 2011 yet?

With other cities, sorry. Like if I wanted to see Cincinnati's murder rate compared to, say, Indianapolis', or Chicago's, or Pittsburgh's, without actually doing the population math myself (I'm lazy), there's no way to find that for 2011 yet?

 

Well, right now there's two problems with finding 2011 numbers.  First, we don't have population estimates for the cities/metro areas yet, which are needed to come up with crime rates.  Second, FBI stats are only out for the first half of 2011, so finding full year numbers is impossible at this point.  I have all the numbers for 2010, and comparisons between all Ohio's major cities.  I could get them for other cities if you wanted.  You just want those cities mentioned above?

Nah, you don't have to trouble yourself, I'm moving back to Cincinnati this June/July and I was just curious. But thanks for the information!

Statisticalt, Cincinnati is incredibly dangerous if you are a black male between 15-40. Of the 66 homicides in 2011, i belive 60 were of black men between those ages. I think there were 2-3 black women, and elderly black man and 2-3 white people to finish the list. My numbers could be off, I looked at the data a month ago and am going off memory, but the trend was heavily in that direction.

 

At the same time, nearly all murder is by someone the victim knows. It didn't matter who you are, if you say away from committing crimes you are significantly safer. Pretty easy!

City Blights, you talk like merely being black makes you more likely to be a victim of a crime. That's the same line of thinking people use to say that, because someone is black, they are more likely to commit a crime. The reality is more about circumstances than causation by race.

 

I'm white, but I would suspect a black guy of a similar class background (and appearing as such) would not be much more likely to be a crime victim while exhibiting the same behavior as me (say walking through a rough neighborhood at night). Maybe marginally so. I think there is some effect of fear of messing with a white person by some black/minority criminals, as police are more likely to press on with their investigation of a crime involving a white victim. There can also be an effect the other way, where the white person is an obvious outsider in a black/minority neighborhood so they may be a target, or there may be some racial animosity motivating an attack. I think these effects are very small, though, and they help to cancel each other out.

 

I do admit I have felt a bit of security before when walking in areas where white men typically fear to tread, due to the feeling that teenagers hanging out on the street were 100x more dumbfounded by the sight of me in that location than they were thinking about harassing me in any way. My black counterpart probably wouldn't have this psychological impact.

^Yeah, I think that's a really interesting point.  There are definitely some neighborhoods where I have felt more at risk because of being white (Lincoln Hts. being the most glaring example...actually got harassed at a stop light from some guys on the corner basically saying that I shouldn't be there).  In Downtown and OTR, though, I do think that criminals might be more hesitant to harrass white people simply due to all the attention the police pay to making sure that these neighborhoods are hospitable and safe for visitors/suburbanites/whites.

Watch out for guys standing around doing nothing... they might do nothing to you!

It's not so much a black/white issue as a knowing people issue. If you have no friends & minimize interacting with people, your likelihood of getting murdered is very low.

^ undeniable fact. 

^Yeah, I think that's a really interesting point.  There are definitely some neighborhoods where I have felt more at risk because of being white (Lincoln Hts. being the most glaring example...actually got harassed at a stop light from some guys on the corner basically saying that I shouldn't be there).  In Downtown and OTR, though, I do think that criminals might be more hesitant to harrass white people simply due to all the attention the police pay to making sure that these neighborhoods are hospitable and safe for visitors/suburbanites/whites.

 

Although, just to be clear and nitpick, Lincoln Heights is not Cincinnati proper.  Cincinnati Police have done a great job cracking down on random crime, assault, etc.  Most attacks in Cincinnati are situations where the victim knows the assailant- for the reasons you mentioned.  Police crackdown HARD when something "out of the ordinary" happens.  Drug based shooting's on the other hand are standard operating procedure.  Less crack down, more calling the usual suspects to find out who was involved.   

 

As a side note, Lincoln Heights is pretty much the roughest municipality in Ham Co. 

City Blights, you talk like merely being black makes you more likely to be a victim of a crime. That's the same line of thinking people use to say that, because someone is black, they are more likely to commit a crime. The reality is more about circumstances than causation by race.

 

I'm white, but I would suspect a black guy of a similar class background (and appearing as such) would not be much more likely to be a crime victim while exhibiting the same behavior as me (say walking through a rough neighborhood at night). Maybe marginally so. I think there is some effect of fear of messing with a white person by some black/minority criminals, as police are more likely to press on with their investigation of a crime involving a white victim. There can also be an effect the other way, where the white person is an obvious outsider in a black/minority neighborhood so they may be a target, or there may be some racial animosity motivating an attack. I think these effects are very small, though, and they help to cancel each other out.

 

I do admit I have felt a bit of security before when walking in areas where white men typically fear to tread, due to the feeling that teenagers hanging out on the street were 100x more dumbfounded by the sight of me in that location than they were thinking about harassing me in any way. My black counterpart probably wouldn't have this psychological impact.

City Blights, you talk like merely being black makes you more likely to be a victim of a crime. That's the same line of thinking people use to say that, because someone is black, they are more likely to commit a crime. The reality is more about circumstances than causation by race.

 

I'm white, but I would suspect a black guy of a similar class background (and appearing as such) would not be much more likely to be a crime victim while exhibiting the same behavior as me (say walking through a rough neighborhood at night). Maybe marginally so. I think there is some effect of fear of messing with a white person by some black/minority criminals, as police are more likely to press on with their investigation of a crime involving a white victim. There can also be an effect the other way, where the white person is an obvious outsider in a black/minority neighborhood so they may be a target, or there may be some racial animosity motivating an attack. I think these effects are very small, though, and they help to cancel each other out.

 

I do admit I have felt a bit of security before when walking in areas where white men typically fear to tread, due to the feeling that teenagers hanging out on the street were 100x more dumbfounded by the sight of me in that location than they were thinking about harassing me in any way. My black counterpart probably wouldn't have this psychological impact.

 

Not exactly sure where my comment disappeared to, but I said that the chances of a black male becoming a victim of a crime increase statistically based on his income level.  My example of blacks walking long distances in Cincinnati would go a ways to explain why you would see more blacks being robbed walking through suspect areas at night than whites.  You're absolutely right about the impact of policing.  Your tax dollars are much harder at work when the accosted individual is white.

 

No one is trying to portray blacks as violent.  I'm just expressing to the forum a reality about street crime and public safety in America.  Many of us UO'ers understand why blacks are statistically the most likely to commit a crime.  Blacks are poorer than any other American group, and always have been.

^It's startling how more and more abandoned and forgotten Lincoln Heights looks every time I drive through. 

 

Side note on LH: I played in the rec basketball league from basically 1st grade to sophomore year of high school, and the tournament at the end of the season would rotate to a different community each year.  Lincoln Hts. hosted the tournament the year I was in 7th grade, and there was a shooting right outside the Y while we were playing.  At the end of the game they announced that everyone had to stay in the building until the police cleared the scene.  Quite a surreal experience for most of the teams there (Evendale, Wyoming, Glendale, etc), but sadly it seemed fairly routine to the Lincoln Hts kids and parents.

One of the first things police ask you when you are the victim of most crimes is if anybody's pissed off at you.

^^^ It just seemed like you were saying someone is more at risk walking around because he is a young (poor) black man. To me, that is similar (not in its cruel intention but in its faulty inference) to saying someone is more likely to commit a crime because he is a young (poor) black man. Both are over-simplifications "backed" by statistics.

Well until statistics start taking into account lifestyle, that's the best way to do it.

 

Also, everyone is ok with listing murder rates as a determination for how dangerous a community is- which are incredibly unrealistic since most urban homicides lean heavily towards African Americans- but its suddenly controversial when you separate it to black and white statistics & probabilities?

 

 

Over the Rhine is getting safer

By Ann Thompson

3/19/2012 3:20:25 PM

 

Cincinnati police are seeing a dramatic drop in homicides in Over the Rhine. Today the Chief listed possible reasons and described what police are doing next.

 

In a media news briefing Chief James Craig reported a 100-percent drop in Over the Rhine murders. He says nobody has been killed there since September.

 

Since then Craig has put more officers in the field, worked with neighborhood groups, targeted the most violent offenders and took them off the streets, and has involved the department in youth mentoring.

 

He's confident the decline in Over the Rhine crime will continue, and cites a 40-percent drop in murders citywide.

 

http://www.wvxu.org/news/wvxunews_article.asp?ID=9877

^ That's great news-

 

Wonder if the Enquirer will cover it.

 

Sad though-  I was flipping through WEBN Facebook photos (something popped up in my newsfeed and i was killing time at work) and one of the most popular ones is the lion king, but when he says don't go to that dark area (badlands, whatever) he says OTR.

 

hundreds of idiots were like "OMG so true!! Scary!!! Unless you wanna buy drugs!!!" etc.

You don't want these people in OTR. Go to the applebee's in fairfield and see the sort of people you are avoiding. They can barely take care of themselves. They don't have the disposable income, energy, or creativity to do anything but roll themselves from their tanks to the plastic buildings they work in and back again. We need educated, productive, worldly people in downtown, otr and clifton/corryville. The people you are describing are a lost cause for our purposes. Be thankful they don't demand anything more than styrofoam shacks in marginal locations. Keep the long-term perspective and remember who is building OTR for whom.

^ Who is this directed to?

 

The world is not so black and white. I know a lot of smart, worldly suburbanites. Some would be city dwellers if they didn't think it would be easier to get a good education for their children in the burbs.

You don't want these people in OTR. Go to the applebee's in fairfield and see the sort of people you are avoiding. They can barely take care of themselves. They don't have the disposable income, energy, or creativity to do anything but roll themselves from their tanks to the plastic buildings they work in and back again. We need educated, productive, worldly people in downtown, otr and clifton/corryville. The people you are describing are a lost cause for our purposes. Be thankful they don't demand anything more than styrofoam shacks in marginal locations. Keep the long-term perspective and remember who is building OTR for whom.

 

Do you think New York City's economy would be as strong if the people you described didn't flock there as their one major trip of the year?  NYC has a massive tourist industry and guess what, it's the people you described.

 

If every one of those suburbanites came down to OTR twice a year we would be flooded with $$.  you may want to be a snob, but I want businesses to succeed and neighborhoods to flourish.  There aren't enough residents in the urban core to fill every restaurant all the time. 

 

And people in fairfield have disposable income to come to OTR twice a year. 

 

your xenophobic rants on who OTR is "made for" are quite disturbing.  exurbanites are not going to move to OTR but you'd be a fool if you advocated for them NOT spending their money at businesses in OTR.  Hell, even if they did move in, I"D BE OK WITH THAT.  Because they would begin to learn, develop and grow as they lived here and experienced things differently. Many of the people who originally moved to OTR at the beginning of this current renaissance (~2006/2007) were children of wealthy suburban east siders (anderson/Indian Hill, etc). And they are some of the neighborhoods best residents and strongest advocates.

 

Perception is king.  What's going on in Downtown & OTR will ONLY be helped as the perception changes in the suburbs.  No one wants to keep OTR as some hidden gem only for a select chosen few to experience.  We want it packed thriving, developing and bustling. 

 

We DO however want smart people planning the development, etc. 

And back to crime....

 

More people = less crime. 

 

No one wants to walk out and do a drug deal in front of a few dozen tourists walking around.

Professional/creative class suburbanites, 20% or so of the total at most, ARE potential future residents and business owners in OTR. That could amount to a couple of hundred thousand people in the metro area. That should be more than enough to work with. The other 80% of cincinnati's suburban population just can't be part of OTR or other central neighborhoods without changing their values and ways of life beyond all recognition, which won't happen. Of course one of those professional class people will have the income, purchasing power, and taxing potential of two, three or more of the solid old-fashioned middle class sort who won't and can't be part of OTR anyway. OTR's game will have to be quality, not quantity; at least for the next few decades. But I don't see that as a problem. There should be more than enough potential customers for a long time. to come, OTR can be made to work better.

You don't want these people in OTR. Go to the applebee's in fairfield and see the sort of people you are avoiding. They can barely take care of themselves. They don't have the disposable income, energy, or creativity to do anything but roll themselves from their tanks to the plastic buildings they work in and back again. We need educated, productive, worldly people in downtown, otr and clifton/corryville. The people you are describing are a lost cause for our purposes. Be thankful they don't demand anything more than styrofoam shacks in marginal locations. Keep the long-term perspective and remember who is building OTR for whom.

 

Uh, wow.

 

I grew up in the exurbs of northeastern Kentucky, and I am well educated, productive and have traveled the world. I drive my "tank" to work every other day, and bike the other days, and drive for the necessity of having to carry 20 pounds of camera gear back and forth. I have disposable income, energy and I am a photographer. And I moved to downtown, OTR and then Northside. So I just blew your useless rant out of the water.

 

My parents still live in the exurbs. They want to move to a more walkable neighborhood, where there are amenities for them - they are in their 60s. They want a low crime rate, a parking space or two and a yard. They are willing to look in some of the inner neighborhoods (e.g. Northside) but not OTR - so are they now the type of people we should be avoiding? Are they lost causes?

 

What about some of the forumers on here? I know one in particular lives in Mason because he works in Dayton and she works in Cincinnati. They have a yard, two kids and are in a great school district. They went to a suburban restaurant for dinner. I consider them to be wealthy; he travels the world; and he's also very much creative as a photographer. Is he a lost cause? Is he now someone I should avoid?

^ That's great news-

 

Wonder if the Enquirer will cover it.

 

Sad though-  I was flipping through WEBN Facebook photos (something popped up in my newsfeed and i was killing time at work) and one of the most popular ones is the lion king, but when he says don't go to that dark area (badlands, whatever) he says OTR.

 

hundreds of idiots were like "OMG so true!! Scary!!! Unless you wanna buy drugs!!!" etc.

 

http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php/topic,26954.msg603380.html#msg603380

 

...and the Enquirer probably won't cover it. I tweeted it to Carolyn Washburn this afternoon just in case she missed it.  :laugh:

You don't want these people in OTR. Go to the applebee's in fairfield and see the sort of people you are avoiding. They can barely take care of themselves. They don't have the disposable income, energy, or creativity to do anything but roll themselves from their tanks to the plastic buildings they work in and back again. We need educated, productive, worldly people in downtown, otr and clifton/corryville. The people you are describing are a lost cause for our purposes. Be thankful they don't demand anything more than styrofoam shacks in marginal locations. Keep the long-term perspective and remember who is building OTR for whom.

 

Uh, wow.

 

I grew up in the exurbs of northeastern Kentucky, and I am well educated, productive and have traveled the world. I drive my "tank" to work every other day, and bike the other days, and drive for the necessity of having to carry 20 pounds of camera gear back and forth. I have disposable income, energy and I am a photographer. And I moved to downtown, OTR and then Northside. So I just blew your useless rant out of the water...

Hey, Sherman--no need to get so upset at Matthew Hall's remarks.  You (and probably most of your friends and associates) are certainly productive exceptions to the typical "Cincinnati Suburbanite," while Matthew Hall has certainly proven to be a "bellwether" to UrbanOhio.  His remarks may be often direct and caustic, but they also harbor some unpleasant truths (or observations).  And therefore he and others have a right to be heard.

 

Bellwether? More like rabblerouser.

I completely disagree, respectfully.

 

There are plenty of examples of folks who live in the suburbs because of the school district - at least in Ohio, or who live in a suburb because it's close to their workplace.

 

Not all employers are in downtown or in the "urban core," and most CPS schools are a joke.

 

Median income is generally higher in the suburbs than in Cincinnati proper - much data backs this up, and not everyone is underwater on their mortgages. If that is being used as an example ("don't have the disposable income"), I have 500 houses in Cincinnati to show you whose owners went under in their mortgages and were foreclosed. I also can show you 500 Section 8 "houses."

 

There are plenty of activities in the suburbs, as well. My boss lives in Mason and is active in his church, in his subdivision with activities for the local children, and serves on the PTA. My neighbor down the street is on the Northside Business Association.

 

No one is saying that OTR should not be a vibrant neighborhood, full of diverse individuals of all income levels. Or any neighborhood or city or suburb. But it's inappropriate to characterize a group of individuals, based on where they live at, as lazy, underwater, uneducated, unproductive, redneck, et al. when I can easily point out many "unsavory" characteristics of Cincinnati - heck, even some folks on my street. The characteristics are unhelpful, rude, and flat out wrong.

 

He's not a bellwether - he's a xenophobe who wants OTR to be handcrafted to match his specific ideals.

You don't want these people in OTR. Go to the applebee's in fairfield and see the sort of people you are avoiding. They can barely take care of themselves. They don't have the disposable income, energy, or creativity to do anything but roll themselves from their tanks to the plastic buildings they work in and back again. We need educated, productive, worldly people in downtown, otr and clifton/corryville. The people you are describing are a lost cause for our purposes. Be thankful they don't demand anything more than styrofoam shacks in marginal locations. Keep the long-term perspective and remember who is building OTR for whom.

 

Notice: never in this statement did Matthew say he was talking about "everyone who lives in the suburbs".

 

Re-read his statement, replacing "these people" with "the people who comment on Enquirer articles and say things like, 'OTR is a cesspool! Burn the neighborhood down and rebuild it from scratch,' or 'the renovation of Fountain Square was a boondoggle!' or 'The Banks will never happen.'"  I believe that those people are mostly a lost cause who will never come into the urban core for any reason. We should build a better community that more people will desire to be a part of; not beg the haters to change their ways and move downtown.

I'm talking about knowing and targeting your audience. Anyone who is genuinely interested in OTR today is by definition not part of the 80% I described. My argument is that you shouldn't be offended when you try to sell two-seater cars to families with four kids who like driving off-road on the weekend and they ignore you or laugh in your face. No matter how safe you make it, they just aren't in the market. To extend my metaphor, crime reduction in OTR is important for those in the market for a two-seater even though they are looking for excitement, adventure, and variety in OTR. But, it will never matter to the 80%. You could elimintate all crime, lovingly rehab every structure and they will still dismiss and mock it as something they don't want and have no use for, even if in their hearts they might occasionally indulge the thought of what such a life, or even one evening, in OTR might be like. IN the end, they still won't be interested. OTR is about creating choices for cincinnatians even though we must accept that most will never even consider this choice. Nothing can be all things to all people and nothing should try to be. The only way to make OTR appealing to the 80% would be to remake it to the point where it would be indistinguishable from kenwood or rookwood. I'm sure no one here wants that. Why this should offend people, I just don't understand. Reduced crime in OTR is great and important, but it won't matter to the majority of Cincinnatians in anyway. I have an old acquintance who has lived in Bloomfield Hills, New Jersey for 12 years. He can see the lights of Manhattan from the end of his block, but he has never been there and doubts he will ever go. That is his choice just like OTR is our choice. We must accept this and move on with our own choices. It should be enought to want reduced crime for ourselves.

Back on topic, I think the crime trends are great news for Cincy and OTR in general.  Too bad it does seem this kind of positive news is under-reported byt the primary news outlets becasue I think perception is still a major issue.  A few weeks ago i mentioned at work that after dinner downtown, I went to Over the Rhine, the woman, in her early 30s mind you, bulged her eyes in disbelief. 

^ I wouldn't call statistics over a 6 month period a "crime trend". It's good news, sure, but trends only show up over several years. Imagine if there had been a major spike in the past 6 months, instead of a dip. The same people thinking this is proof of a trend would be saying exactly what I just did. And they'd be right.