can tell you if there had been a major spike, it would be front page news.  Hack OTR can have a bad 3 day stretch and it is front page news.  There is absolutely a double standard. And yes, the trend is in fact downward looking at the longer terms numbers.

Wow. I understand that cincinnati isn't the friendliest or most functional place in the world and that there are reasons to be defensive, but that my modest suggestion that OTR serves a certain demographic, no matter the crime situation, should be described as "xenophobic" is ludicrous and absurdly misguided. I'm not stopping or discouraging anyone, but if OTR represents everything they hate and fear in the world why would we want them? I'm not the enemy.  I think that thousands more professional/creative/young people will move to, visit, and start businesses in OTR in the years ahead. Property values will continue to rise, tax income to the city will grow, and crime will continue to fall creating a virtuous cycle of economic growth bringing still more people. They will do all sorts of things that I can't even imagine in OTR. I'm just saying that 80% of the people in cincinnati are committed to not being part of it, even if crime is eliminated as an issue entirely. 20% of the cincinnati metro is more than 400,000 people. They are the wealthiest, most educated and economically and professionally savvy people in the area and control the majority of the region's wealth. We want them and they want us. Its a win/win. The dramatically better crime situation will certainly help this along, but all of this is irrelevant to the other 80% of cincinnatians. OTR won't be Cincinnati in miniature. It will be cincinnati at its best and that includes its handling of crime. People don't change, but neighborhoods sometimes do. Let's enjoy and profit from it and stop obsessing about why some people turn down our invitation.

Back on topic, I think the crime trends are great news for Cincy and OTR in general.  Too bad it does seem this kind of positive news is under-reported byt the primary news outlets becasue I think perception is still a major issue.  A few weeks ago i mentioned at work that after dinner downtown, I went to Over the Rhine, the woman, in her early 30s mind you, bulged her eyes in disbelief. 

 

If she's in her early 30's, downtown has been a listless, free-fire zone her entire life.  As she progressed through her prime, OTR got worse, not better.  It's hard to convince an entire generation to believe in a place that the City didn't believe in not too long ago.

you should amend your last statement by sayin "In Cincinnati, it's hard to convince...."  Not true in many more open-minded areas including cities in Ohio and Indiana let alone the rest of the country.

Back on topic, I think the crime trends are great news for Cincy and OTR in general.  Too bad it does seem this kind of positive news is under-reported byt the primary news outlets becasue I think perception is still a major issue.  A few weeks ago i mentioned at work that after dinner downtown, I went to Over the Rhine, the woman, in her early 30s mind you, bulged her eyes in disbelief. 

 

If she's in her early 30's, downtown has been a listless, free-fire zone her entire life.  As she progressed through her prime, OTR got worse, not better.  It's hard to convince an entire generation to believe in a place that the City didn't believe in not too long ago.

 

^ Not sure how old you are but For someone who is in their early 30's, Downtown started its revival when they were 24ish and OTR started its most recent revival when they were 26-27ish. 

 

Also-- Someone in their early 30's is still "in their prime".  I'd guess the majority of the people writing on here are in their late 20's early 30's with many in their mid 30's as well.  The point was that early 30's is NOT old, and yet that person still felt that way.  not that they "passed their prime" 5 or 6 years ago.

 

It probably has less to do with age and more to do with where the person grew up.  I know people who range from 20 to 70 who know that OTR and downtown are awesome, and I know people who are 20-70 who think it's the scariest place ever. 

Back on topic, I think the crime trends are great news for Cincy and OTR in general.  Too bad it does seem this kind of positive news is under-reported byt the primary news outlets becasue I think perception is still a major issue.  A few weeks ago i mentioned at work that after dinner downtown, I went to Over the Rhine, the woman, in her early 30s mind you, bulged her eyes in disbelief. 

 

If she's in her early 30's, downtown has been a listless, free-fire zone her entire life.  As she progressed through her prime, OTR got worse, not better.  It's hard to convince an entire generation to believe in a place that the City didn't believe in not too long ago.

 

^ Not sure how old you are but For someone who is in their early 30's, Downtown started its revival when they were 24ish and OTR started its most recent revival when they were 26-27ish. 

 

Also-- Someone in their early 30's is still "in their prime".  I'd guess the majority of the people writing on here are in their late 20's early 30's with many in their mid 30's as well.  The point was that early 30's is NOT old, and yet that person still felt that way.  not that they "passed their prime" 5 or 6 years ago.

 

It probably has less to do with age and more to do with where the person grew up.  I know people who range from 20 to 70 who know that OTR and downtown are awesome, and I know people who are 20-70 who think it's the scariest place ever. 

 

There is an entire generation of people that have only known the city's core as it was in the 90's and 2000s, which was as bad as its been since the TB days.  Also, most women in their 30s are considered past their prime.  Age certainly isn't the only factor, but it has merit.  There are some elderly that fear a lot of things.

 

Downtown's resurgance and OTR's aren't congruent.  OTR is still a work in progress south of Liberty, and that section only climbed out of its rut a couple years ago, as in 2009.

 

 

Back on topic, I think the crime trends are great news for Cincy and OTR in general.  Too bad it does seem this kind of positive news is under-reported byt the primary news outlets becasue I think perception is still a major issue.  A few weeks ago i mentioned at work that after dinner downtown, I went to Over the Rhine, the woman, in her early 30s mind you, bulged her eyes in disbelief.

 

can tell you if there had been a major spike, it would be front page news.  Hack OTR can have a bad 3 day stretch and it is front page news.  There is absolutely a double standard. And yes, the trend is in fact downward looking at the longer terms numbers.

 

Doubly agreed. Has the Enquirer even covered the decrease in crime yet? I guarantee most of its readers would assume someone has been killed in OTR in the last 6 months...but I guess OTR being safer isn't part of the narrative.

^ no Enquirwr coverage. Everything's been focused on the uptick in violence in Avondale

New to the board here.

 

I had a couple of people recommend the Price Hill neighborhood in Cincinnati to me as a potential place to call home.  I have been tracking the crime in that neighborhood for a month now and it is pretty alarming to see so much violent crime in Price Hill East and West.

 

Does anyone on this board live in Price Hill and can they elaborate in detail what kind of crime they've personally experienced or have seen and if there are any streets that are relatively immune to the crime in Price Hill?  Right now I am having second thoughts about moving to Price Hill and I think I will start looking at some other areas.

I'd be pretty careful about which street you choose to live on in Price Hill.  Generally the streets with views of the city or river will be safe, but all those side streets intersecting Glenway and Warsaw between the top of the climb and St. Lawrence Church are a mess. 

I'd be pretty careful about which street you choose to live on in Price Hill.  Generally the streets with views of the city or river will be safe, but all those side streets intersecting Glenway and Warsaw between the top of the climb and St. Lawrence Church are a mess.

 

Thanks.  This does not sound very encouraging.  This will greatly limit where I can live in the neighborhood and that presents a problem for a project that I had in mind to serve the neighborhood. 

I'd be pretty careful about which street you choose to live on in Price Hill.  Generally the streets with views of the city or river will be safe, but all those side streets intersecting Glenway and Warsaw between the top of the climb and St. Lawrence Church are a mess.

 

Thanks.  This does not sound very encouraging.  This will greatly limit where I can live in the neighborhood and that presents a problem for a project that I had in mind to serve the neighborhood.

 

Welcome!!

 

What attracted you to Price Hill?  I would say price hill right now is sort of where "pioneers" are considering moving.  People who want to go into a run down neighborhood and start the transition to fix it up. 

 

If you're looking for something more stable, but want to be close to the urban core downtown and OTR (gateway Quarter) are your best bets.  Also there is some nice stuff in the West End, primarily south of Ezzard Charles & east of linn.   

 

Or further east, East Walnut Hills is good.  If you're looking for urban walkability and a neighborhood with lots of bars & restaurants and good night life, OTR is your best bet.

I'd be pretty careful about which street you choose to live on in Price Hill.  Generally the streets with views of the city or river will be safe, but all those side streets intersecting Glenway and Warsaw between the top of the climb and St. Lawrence Church are a mess.

 

Thanks.  This does not sound very encouraging.  This will greatly limit where I can live in the neighborhood and that presents a problem for a project that I had in mind to serve the neighborhood. 

If you are looking at some of the prices for homes there that can go for as little as $4000. There is a reason.

I'd be pretty careful about which street you choose to live on in Price Hill.  Generally the streets with views of the city or river will be safe, but all those side streets intersecting Glenway and Warsaw between the top of the climb and St. Lawrence Church are a mess.

 

Thanks.  This does not sound very encouraging.  This will greatly limit where I can live in the neighborhood and that presents a problem for a project that I had in mind to serve the neighborhood. 

 

This sounds very cryptic. I find it weird you would specifically choose Price Hill for a project, unless it were related to some of the problems PH has...which would mean you wouldn't be gawking at the crime stats.

 

Color me confused.

I'd be pretty careful about which street you choose to live on in Price Hill.  Generally the streets with views of the city or river will be safe, but all those side streets intersecting Glenway and Warsaw between the top of the climb and St. Lawrence Church are a mess.

 

Thanks.  This does not sound very encouraging.  This will greatly limit where I can live in the neighborhood and that presents a problem for a project that I had in mind to serve the neighborhood. 

 

This sounds very cryptic. I find it weird you would specifically choose Price Hill for a project, unless it were related to some of the problems PH has...which would mean you wouldn't be gawking at the crime stats.

 

Color me confused.

Let's not be too hasty in condemning this newcomer's project before we know more about it.  New blood, new ideas, who knows?  More information might help.

I am looking for a place to start up a puny little AM radio station.  Legal but unlicensed.  Serving a mile to a three mile radius is about right for the amount of power I can legally utilize.  Creating local talk shows with local people about the important news in the neighborhood and city would be one of the benefits of the station.  Stations like this are cropping up all over the country and can serve niche markets that the bigger stations like WLW can't even cover.  Airing high school sports, providing local news and even a training ground for aspiring talent are a few of the benefits of the station.

 

Ideally I would need to locate near the geographic center of Price Hill to reach most or all of the entire neighborhood with a usable signal.  From what J. Mecklenborg said every area aside from the far east or south is questionable at best at least as far as safety issues are concerned.

 

I need to find a place that is very affordable (Price Hill does offer homes that I can buy and fix up and not have to pay a mortgage) but they seem to exist in the areas that are going to have very high crime rates.  And I will need to find full time employment to support myself and sustain the day to day operations of the station until and if I can find a revenue stream from advertising by local businesses.  I got in touch with Price Hill Will and they will be able to help me to find a rental and a job but that does not solve the problem of locating the radio station in a relatively safe location and of course in a property that I own.

Huh. Sounds interesting! You should start a thread about it.

Let's not be too hasty in condemning this newcomer's project before we know more about it.  New blood, new ideas, who knows?  More information might help.

Hmm. I didn't mean to come across that way. I was just thinking my puzzlement out loud.

Price Hill has been questionable for a while, but shifting trends in housing, along with the unprecedented revival that's going on south of Liberty, the Westside has become an out-of-sight, out-of-mind destination for poor city folk.  The city has been under varying levels of pressure to clear the downtown slum for 90 years, the riots being a tipping point in its national and international visibility.  It's finally happening and the Westside is a short-term loser in the process.  A taxpayer like Billiam won't be hanging outside a lot, so the chances of being accosted aren't great.  The facility being safe from thieves that'll take everything including the bathroom sink for the fixture and piping?  No way.

West Price Hill (I'm thinking of the neighborhood between St Theresa and New St Joe's cemetery) is fine. It's still very much a middle class area.

If the goal is to host a local radio station, then for reaching the highest number of people I'd think that Over-the-Rhine would be the place to be.  Price Hill might have an advantage as far as signal propagation since it's high up and can broadcast out over the valley as well as the surrounding community, but there's a lot of nothing (i.e. industrial park and railroad yards) between Lower Price Hill and OTR/Downtown.  I'd think the place to be is Fairview, Clifton Heights, or Mt. Auburn, maybe even the far southwest regions of Walnut Hills.  That puts you within range of not only OTR, but also most of the University of Cincinnati and the dense neighborhoods all around there.  Crime is still an issue in those neighborhoods (generally getting better as you go from east to west), and Mt. Auburn is pretty heavy with other broadcasting facilities as well, so I don't know if interference might be an issue.  I have trouble getting some FM stations up on Highland Avenue, but again I don't know how AM signals propagate and such.

West Price Hill (I'm thinking of the neighborhood between St Theresa and New St Joe's cemetery) is fine. It's still very much a middle class area.

 

That is what I thought.  I have not been to Price Hill in a decade but I understand some positive changes are being made.

 

I have checked spotcrime.com and another site and it still seems as though violent crime is a major problem even in the West Price Hill area.    Property crime is a concern because I have to wonder whether or not someone would like to abscond with my studio and broadcast equipment.

If the goal is to host a local radio station, then for reaching the highest number of people I'd think that Over-the-Rhine would be the place to be.  Price Hill might have an advantage as far as signal propagation since it's high up and can broadcast out over the valley as well as the surrounding community, but there's a lot of nothing (i.e. industrial park and railroad yards) between Lower Price Hill and OTR/Downtown.  I'd think the place to be is Fairview, Clifton Heights, or Mt. Auburn, maybe even the far southwest regions of Walnut Hills.  That puts you within range of not only OTR, but also most of the University of Cincinnati and the dense neighborhoods all around there.  Crime is still an issue in those neighborhoods (generally getting better as you go from east to west), and Mt. Auburn is pretty heavy with other broadcasting facilities as well, so I don't know if interference might be an issue.  I have trouble getting some FM stations up on Highland Avenue, but again I don't know how AM signals propagate and such.

 

I looked into OTR more than a decade ago but at that time it was not in very good shape.  Even the OTR Chamber of Commerce discouraged me from moving there due to the crime issues.

 

The kind of format I plan to offer is probably going to appeal mostly to people aged 30 and up.  And yes, I cannot locate too close to other broadcast facilities otherwise they will create interference for my peanut whistle 100 milliwatt flamethrower.

Price Hill has been questionable for a while, but shifting trends in housing, along with the unprecedented revival that's going on south of Liberty, the Westside has become an out-of-sight, out-of-mind destination for poor city folk.  The city has been under varying levels of pressure to clear the downtown slum for 90 years, the riots being a tipping point in its national and international visibility.  It's finally happening and the Westside is a short-term loser in the process.  A taxpayer like Billiam won't be hanging outside a lot, so the chances of being accosted aren't great.  The facility being safe from thieves that'll take everything including the bathroom sink for the fixture and piping?  No way.

 

I gather that what you are saying is that it is very likely my property will become a crime scene after one or more people decide that they need my equipment more than I do?

Price Hill has been questionable for a while, but shifting trends in housing, along with the unprecedented revival that's going on south of Liberty, the Westside has become an out-of-sight, out-of-mind destination for poor city folk.  The city has been under varying levels of pressure to clear the downtown slum for 90 years, the riots being a tipping point in its national and international visibility.  It's finally happening and the Westside is a short-term loser in the process.  A taxpayer like Billiam won't be hanging outside a lot, so the chances of being accosted aren't great.  The facility being safe from thieves that'll take everything including the bathroom sink for the fixture and piping?  No way.

 

I gather that what you are saying is that it is very likely my property will become a crime scene after one or more people decide that they need my equipment more than I do?

 

In a way I'm saying that being prepared insurance-wise is the way to go if investing in Price Hill, east or west.  Hell, anywhere in the city I'd be looking to protect myself that way.  There are just a lot of people that think the Westside is prime for that kind of thievery because they think it's a more isolated area than some other working class neighborhoods in Cincinnati, as if two of the city's largest neighborhoods aren't on the Westside. 

Billiam, somehow I suspect that you're the same contributor who recently concluded a similar post over on "CityData" (especially your interest in NKY)  Are you from the Kansas City area?  If so, why have you given up on your plans in NKY?  If not, may I encourage you to investigate the Latonia, NKY area just south of Holmes HS--that safe location was unintentionally omitted from the discussion at the time.

Billiam, somehow I suspect that you're the same contributor who recently concluded a similar post over on "CityData" (especially your interest in NKY)  Are you from the Kansas City area?  If so, why have you given up on your plans in NKY?  If not, may I encourage you to investigate the Latonia, NKY area just south of Holmes HS--that safe location was unintentionally omitted from the discussion at the time.

 

One and the same.  I've learned the hard way not to throw all of my eggs into one basket.  I've ended up very disappointed in the past when one or more major obstacles ended up in my path and derailed my plans to develop the radio station.  I am still interested in NKY and my friend that used to work at KISS FM in Cincy still thinks highly of the area for such a venture.

 

I've heard of Latonia.  I think that is part of Covington.  To be honest, I have checked out the crime rates in the NKY suburbs and most areas of Covington and Newport are safer than Price Hill.  There only seems to be one really bad area in Covington around 16th St. and the streets and avenues surrounding it to the border of Newport.  The rest of the city is fair to pretty good crime wise.

Price Hill has been questionable for a while, but shifting trends in housing, along with the unprecedented revival that's going on south of Liberty, the Westside has become an out-of-sight, out-of-mind destination for poor city folk.  The city has been under varying levels of pressure to clear the downtown slum for 90 years, the riots being a tipping point in its national and international visibility.  It's finally happening and the Westside is a short-term loser in the process.  A taxpayer like Billiam won't be hanging outside a lot, so the chances of being accosted aren't great.  The facility being safe from thieves that'll take everything including the bathroom sink for the fixture and piping?  No way.

 

I gather that what you are saying is that it is very likely my property will become a crime scene after one or more people decide that they need my equipment more than I do?

 

In a way I'm saying that being prepared insurance-wise is the way to go if investing in Price Hill, east or west.  Hell, anywhere in the city I'd be looking to protect myself that way.  There are just a lot of people that think the Westside is prime for that kind of thievery because they think it's a more isolated area than some other working class neighborhoods in Cincinnati, as if two of the city's largest neighborhoods aren't on the Westside.

 

Thanks for the heads up.  I've already dealt with some of that at my current location and I'd like to avoid that again, if possible.

Found the following in the Enquirer on Sunday.  Yikes.  Crime in Price Hill and most city neighborhoods is going through the roof these days.

 

http://news.cincinnati.com/interactive/article/20120330/CINCI/120321007/See-state-your-neighborhood-how-compares-others-Cincinnati

^ I'm sure that you're already aware of it, but today's Enquirer featured a sobering portrait of Price Hill as one of the city's most endangered neighborhoods.  (not a pretty picture)

Didn't look at the Enquirer yet.  Thanks for letting me know.  I will check it out.

Good stats for Ohio and Cincinnati.  (Would not see this in the local news!)

http://www.theatlanticcities.com/politics/2012/04/most-and-least-peaceful-places-america/857/

 

19. Cincinnati-Middletown, OH-KY-IN

23. Columbus, OH

34. Austin-Round Rock-San Marcos, TX

50. Nashville-Davidson-Murfreesboro-Franklin, TN

53. Charlotte-Gastonia-Rock Hill, NC-SC

Interesting list.  I keep hearing people leaving here for Charlotte because crime is out of hand here. I guess they are in for a rude awakening.

How is Camden, NJ #14?

How is Camden, NJ #14?

 

For real. This is a completely counter-intuitive list that I have no faith in.

^ The list is only loosely based on actual crime and violent offenses.  It uses "police presence, and availability of small arms," as components, so the fact that a place like Camden, NJ actually has strict gun laws and few cops bumps it way up on the list.

 

If you applied this list on a global scale, I'd bet places like Pyongyang are in the top 20.  "The Atlantic Cities" tends to be completely out of touch, in my opinion. 

Richard Florida is completely out of touch. He is like the Paris Hilton of the urbanist scene. Shallow and diva-like.

Oh...but I also recall that this U/O forum is a place where "statistics" are revered above almost all other things.  It is here that the application of "statistics" can prove what our perceptions might deem otherwise.  It is here, in fact, that "statistics" take on utmost importance in virtually ANY dispute--am I not correct?  So, just what is it that makes this PARTICULAR list of stats so unacceptable?  (It wouldn't be because Cincinnati was rated the most peaceful big city in Ohio...would it?)

It's probably because Cincinnati is certainly more "peaceful" than Camden, an entire city I fear worse than suburbanites fear OtR.

LOL, I guess I am a Cincinnati hater.

 

The problem I have is that the statistics he was using were not proper indicators of what he claimed they showed (i.e. how peaceful a city is). At least not proper by themselves.

 

It's like judging schools' academics by truancy numbers and class size, with no attention to grades and test scores.

 

I'm glad Cincinnati is getting recognition for its peacefulness, but I'd rather the recognition come from a higher quality study.

 

Also, JohnClevesSymmes is right on target.

The Atlantic Cities - full of dubious details including this one. Take this with a grain of salt, like every comparison article and slideshow from Forbes and CNN Money.

^ But, but, but, if...Richard Florida said it, I believe it, and that settles it! :roll: 

There may be some validity to this study though certainly it has flaws.  I didn't see either Denver, Indianapolis, Louisville or Rochester, NY which are million plus metro markets.

 

At one time Cincinnati along with Pittsburgh were among the safest million plus metro markets in the country.  I remember studying the FBI crime books at the local library when I lived in West Hartford, CT and noted that Cincy had a crime rate that was considerably lower than most other million metro markets.  Something has happened over the last decade to change that and the crime rate has risen considerably since the 1990's.  However, at least from what I am being told on a Cincinnati forum by some people, Cincy's crime problem is heading in the right direction again as violent crimes are starting to drop in some areas of the city.

The murder rate spiked after the riots and has not gone back down.

 

It used to be 40ish murders/year. For the past decade it has been 70-80. And don't forget the city lost 10% of its population in that decade.

 

I'm not sure about other crimes, but the effect of the riots on the murder rate is pretty amazing.

For real. This is a completely counter-intuitive list that I have no faith in.

 

What are you talking about?

 

It's from a 54 page discussion paper that details it's findings, not some random list compiled on a reporters desk.

^Not sure what statistics you are using, natininja.  72 homicides in 2010, down to 66 in 2011, and the rate is dropping again this year (I think I saw we are currently down 24% vs. a year ago in the homicide rate).  I think things are moving in the right direction. 

What do your eyes tell you about Cincinnati?  Mine tell me that it's is one of the more dangerous cities in the country with very few short-term solutions for its systemic cycle of poverty.  The beauty of Cincinnati in 2012 is that it has several long-term solutions for its economy and lack of localized integration on the cusp.

What do your eyes tell you about Cincinnati?  Mine tell me that it's is one of the more dangerous cities in the country....

 

Mine tell me something totally different. Perhaps it's relevant to one's perspective. And most dangerous cities in the country? Nah, not by a long shot.

What do your eyes tell you about Cincinnati?  Mine tell me that it's is one of the more dangerous cities in the country with very few short-term solutions for its systemic cycle of poverty.  The beauty of Cincinnati in 2012 is that it has several long-term solutions for its economy and lack of localized integration on the cusp.

 

What neighborhood do you live in?

"dangerous is such an overused, meaningless term.

 

Is Cincinnati dangerous if you're an average non-drug using person? No! Not at all!  Wow-MAYBE your car window will get broken (but not stolen), maybe someone you know might get mugged at 2am. But those are big maybes. There is almost a 0 murder rate in Cincinnati for non-criminals or non-drug users or non-gang members. That sounds pretty good to me!

The occaisional car break-in causing, say, $200 in damage every 1 or 2 years, is a lot cheaper than living in the suburbs and driving everywhere, all the time.