I personally believe that the legalization of drugs is the best way to decrease crime in our neighborhoods.

 

Agreed, with regards to marijuana.  I don't think it's going to happen any time soon, though, which is why I'm arguing for intermediate measures.  Of course that belief falls in line with my point that there is a direct link between illegal drug use, violent crimes, and low income neighborhoods.

I personally believe that the legalization of drugs is the best way to decrease crime in our neighborhoods.

Cincinnati's Police Chef recently stated that legalized drugs would still be sold on the black market.

Granted, cigarettes, alcohol, and for that matter, TV's & computers are sold on the black market, but that's a serious exception to the min market.

this looks like a plain mugging to me - no drug dealing - guy was just pumping gas.

http://www.local12.com/mostpopular/story/Caught-on-Camera-Shootout-at-Northside-BP-Station/p476n3c3ukuxj3QgelKV3Q.cspx

If it were a mugging the guy would probably not have gotten shot if he had complied with the demands of the other guy. He could have died because he chose to pull his gun instead.

 

Concealed carry people, take note. Rather than protecting yourself you just might end up with a gunshot wound you wouldn't have had without your "protection".

this looks like a plain mugging to me - no drug dealing - guy was just pumping gas.

http://www.local12.com/mostpopular/story/Caught-on-Camera-Shootout-at-Northside-BP-Station/p476n3c3ukuxj3QgelKV3Q.cspx

 

CPD: "We're assuming there was a demand for property we don't know, our victim is less than cooperative."  Sounds like there is more to the story.  If it was a simple mugging, why is the victim not talking to the cops?

 

If it were a mugging the guy would probably not have gotten shot if he had complied with the demands of the other guy. He could have died because he chose to pull his gun instead.

 

Concealed carry people, take note. Rather than protecting yourself you just might end up with a gunshot wound you wouldn't have had without your "protection".

 

If it was a licensed weapon, they should lose their permit.  Anyone who has the proper training wouldn't/shouldn't be stupid enough to fire off a gun in the middle of a gas station.  That could have been a lot worse.  That said, it likely wasn't, since the victim isn't talking to the cops.

 

It looks to me as though the guy was trying to disguise himself with the silly walk, since he seemed to be able to run just fine. 

 

I mean, TV is so damned ridiculous because there would have been no "story" if there was no visual.  The visual comes nowhere close to explaining the situation, but it and the way its presented insinuate that such crazy situations are happening all the time. 

There are many reasons people don't comply with law enforcement, mostly out of fear of their own community which police don't really protect, but also out of the fact that police are compensated to do a job, and they should do it.  Sometimes police have to do policework, they are sleuths after all.  We also should be careful assuming negatives when people don't volunteer info.  Just because the police come on television to humiliate poor communities for not doing so doesn't mean it's deserved.

It's a major assumption that the mugger would not have shot the victim anyway, even after he complied - it happens all the time and who is to say what this crime could have turned out otherwise. All we know is the little the media told us. And of course what has happened, happened the way it did.

 

As for CCW, it's not about being 10 feet tall and bullet proof because one carries a gun, it's about having a fighting chance. I am not real sure how this particular incident is turned against CCW folks. To get a CCW one has to have a spotless record, complete rigorous class sessions and more to get licensed to conceal. Anywho.

What we're seeing from this video tells us hardly anything since it provides no context.  So TV rushes in, with their foolish audience, and constructs a context to fit Arm Chair America's imagination. 

 

So...talk radio is now blowing up with the news that UC police is cutting 20 patrol officers.  The Arm Chairs want to believe that white UC students are being attacked by rabid black teenagers by the dozen, every night, and somehow this will grow with the disappearance of the UC police and their trusty Mustangs.  Never mind that UC police do almost zero police work outside the friendly confines of the campus...all of the bar fight and party pooping in the surrounding neighborhoods is handled by Cincinnati Police, who aren't cutting their numbers, and in fact swarm the area on Friday and Saturday nights.   

What we're seeing from this video tells us hardly anything since it provides no context.  So TV rushes in, with their foolish audience, and constructs a context to fit Arm Chair America's imagination. 

 

So...talk radio is now blowing up with the news that UC police is cutting 20 patrol officers.  The Arm Chairs want to believe that white UC students are being attacked by rabid black teenagers by the dozen, every night, and somehow this will grow with the disappearance of the UC police and their trusty Mustangs.  Never mind that UC police do almost zero police work outside the friendly confines of the campus...all of the bar fight and party pooping in the surrounding neighborhoods is handled by Cincinnati Police, who aren't cutting their numbers, and in fact swarm the area on Friday and Saturday nights.   

 

Excellent point of view. UC police patrol around here just a tiny bit (Clifton Heights) and that's usually along the shuttle line on Warner. They are around a little more on the weekends, but usually they are tagging along Cincy police. They can detain but not arrest. Basically, they are like rent a cops once they leave campus.

There are many reasons people don't comply with law enforcement, mostly out of fear of their own community which police don't really protect, but also out of the fact that police are compensated to do a job, and they should do it.  Sometimes police have to do policework, they are sleuths after all.  We also should be careful assuming negatives when people don't volunteer info.  Just because the police come on television to humiliate poor communities for not doing so doesn't mean it's deserved.

 

I'm afraid if police faced the same level of noncooperation in wealthier neighborhoods, they wouldn't do a good job of policing them, either. The main investigative tool police have is gathering testimony of eye witnesses. Even in the age of DNA evidence and whatnot.

 

It's a chicken-or-egg thing, with a definitive answer: racist policing came first. But knowing the cause doesn't help bring a solution. Police could be busting their balls but they won't be able to provide a high level of detection without community cooperation. That's why the most important thing the police need to do that they aren't doing enough is developing human rapport with the communities they serve -- not sleuthing. They need to prove to the community that they each have a personal investment in the betterment of that community, gaining the trust the lack of which leads to noncompliance.

 

If the officers actually don't care, then we need new officers, since no amount of outreach will prove their authentic devotion. If these officers exist, it should be a priority to weed them out, or give them desk jobs if that's all labor contracts permit.

^^ Perhaps our new police chief will make a difference in this regard?

There are many reasons people don't comply with law enforcement, mostly out of fear of their own community which police don't really protect, but also out of the fact that police are compensated to do a job, and they should do it.  Sometimes police have to do policework, they are sleuths after all.  We also should be careful assuming negatives when people don't volunteer info.  Just because the police come on television to humiliate poor communities for not doing so doesn't mean it's deserved.

 

I'm afraid if police faced the same level of noncooperation in wealthier neighborhoods, they wouldn't do a good job of policing them, either. The main investigative tool police have is gathering testimony of eye witnesses. Even in the age of DNA evidence and whatnot.

 

It's a chicken-or-egg thing, with a definitive answer: racist policing came first. But knowing the cause doesn't help bring a solution. Police could be busting their balls but they won't be able to provide a high level of detection without community cooperation. That's why the most important thing the police need to do that they aren't doing enough is developing human rapport with the communities they serve -- not sleuthing. They need to prove to the community that they each have a personal investment in the betterment of that community, gaining the trust the lack of which leads to noncompliance.

 

If the officers actually don't care, then we need new officers, since no amount of outreach will prove their authentic devotion. If these officers exist, it should be a priority to weed them out, or give them desk jobs if that's all labor contracts permit.

 

I agree that having a relationship with the community is principal, but that takes time, possibly generations.  Every low-income urban area in the country is populated by folks that don't like the way law enforcement conducts their business in their neighborhood as well as in cities they've never even visited.  There is a social divide that will not be broken down by extending olive branches.  There has to be systemic change in how active casework is managed based on race and economic status in order for the poor to feel as if they aren't being targeted.  One of the biggest sticking points for people in desire of Zimmerman seeing prison was that he got a $150k bond, when Hamilton County judges routinely give black males in lower-profile circumstances $500k or even a full million.  People coast-to-coast responded to this perceived injustice, not just frustrated Floridians.  Until the inner city feels more comfortable with the American justice system, sleuthing is how they will catch their criminals.  That and targeting sloppy crooks that have to roll over to avoid being charged with a crime of their own.

It's a major assumption that the mugger would not have shot the victim anyway, even after he complied - it happens all the time and who is to say what this crime could have turned out otherwise. All we know is the little the media told us. And of course what has happened, happened the way it did.

 

As for CCW, it's not about being 10 feet tall and bullet proof because one carries a gun, it's about having a fighting chance. I am not real sure how this particular incident is turned against CCW folks. To get a CCW one has to have a spotless record, complete rigorous class sessions and more to get licensed to conceal. Anywho.

 

Sorry, I just noticed this.  Are you saying it's common for mugging victims to be shot "all the time" by the mugger?  You have any data to back this up in Cincinnati (or anywhere else, for that matter)? 

^^ Do you have any data that backs up compliance with an armed robber guarantees they won't shoot you anyway?

 

My point is who knows what a criminal will do and you are at risk of getting shot as soon as you are looking down the barrel of a mugger's gun.

You run a greater risk of getting shot by pulling a gun of your own. If muggings were frequently resulting in shootings of innocent victims, we would absolutely be hearing about it. The Enquirer would love it. I'm not going to dig through records to prove this obvious point, but if you read the police reports of muggings and shootings you will not find muggings often result in shootings, particularly without some sort of noncompliance by the victim.

 

Maybe as time goes on we will see some stats on what happens when CCW holders get mugged.

I have been involved in several incidents, and have been stunned by the responses of model suburban Christian citizens who have told me, without hesitation, that if they were in the same situation that "I would have shot them".  Well, I didn't because I don't own a gun and have no plans to, but I agree, having actually been attacked several times, that my having a gun would have escalated the situation. 

 

The 2nd amendment crowd loves to speculate about self-defense situations, but few of them have actually been attacked.  In one incident a teenager, about 15 years old, drew a handgun from his winter coat and told me to "give me everything".  I just ran away toward traffic and he got scared and took off in the opposite direction.  If I had had a gun, I might have been compelled to fire it, which could have resulted in a much worse situation.   

 

 

 

^^ Do you have any data that backs up compliance with an armed robber guarantees they won't shoot you anyway?

 

My point is who knows what a criminal will do and you are at risk of getting shot as soon as you are looking down the barrel of a mugger's gun.

 

No, I don't, but I'm not out there saying that mugging victims get shot "all the time."  If you don't want to be called on it, don't make unsupportable statements. 

And you didn't frame it in the way you have now--you actually said it's a major assumption that you would not get shot by a mugger. 

^^ Whew, thanks for the grammar corrections. Guess I better choose my words with the utmost carefulness around here. ;-)

I dunno, for me, someone threating me with deadly force seems to imply the willingness to use it. Perhaps compliance placates someone desperate (crazy) enough to threaten so in the first place. Perhaps not. It's really at the whim of a criminal at that point. And really, just how mean that criminal may be. So to say compliance equals safety is something I don't buy into. And neither point of view seems to have stats to back it up, so I guess we are back to personal preference. Fight back or comply.

 

Also, I think there is a skewed perception of responsible gun owners. Skewed with those that want to prove something, or talk about what they would do, or how macho / badass they are. I know several people with CCW and their attitude seems to be very peaceful and "God forbid" I ever need to use my gun. In other words, it's the last resort. Thus I voiced my objections with the notion that having the means to defend oneself is the same as escalating a violent situation. It seems to blame the would be victim for deciding to fight back.

Most of these idiots who buy illegal handguns and threaten people on the street have zero formal training and as such might completely miss you even when firing at close range.  One of my friends was shot at about 5 times from about 10 feet away and only one shot hit him, through the web between his thumb and index finger. 

 

More recently my friend's friend in Columbus was held up at gunpoint on Parsons by three guys and managed to wrestle the gun out of the guy's hand and shoot two of them, sending both to the hospital.  Unfortunately he shot his own leg in the process, and I think he would have been a lot better off just giving the guys his wallet.   

^^ I understand where you are coming from. I disagree with it. But I think we can both live with that.

Another question is where does it end? Do I throw open my doors to the home invader? or turn my keys over to the car jacker?

 

I have to say if giving away replaceable property can protect myself, children, wife - then so be it.

 

There is a line in the sand where defending one's life or family is of utmost importance. That's the point of CCW / firearms. Not keeping my favorite wallet intact.

I wasn't correcting your grammar.  I was just taking your statement at face value--your later statement seems to have qualified that.

 

And as for the stats, well, they're out there.  There are between 400 and 500 thousand robberies each year (robbery under the law meaning taking something with use of a weapon).  http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/uscrime.htm

 

That same information indicates that there are about 15000 murders per year.  As for the number of gun shot wounds, I haven't found very recent numbers.  http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/content/pub/ascii/fidc9397.txt  This site gives a total of about 40,000 gunshot wounds in 1997. 

 

Obviously, not every robbery will involve a gun, and not every gunshot wound will come from a robbery.  I have not seen anything (in my admittedly brief time even looking) that discusses that.  But the numbers do show that gunshot wounds are far rarer in the US than the number of times each year someone has property stolen by force. 

Sorry, I should have been more precise--robbery is taking something by force or threat of force. 

http://www.local12.com/news/local/story/Fay-Apartments-Changes-Name-Image/9XPRbSI-CkqqIXNi_Auitg.cspx#.T62Iw_16rrI.twitter

Fay Apartments --> The Villages of Roll Hill

Winton Place --> Spring Grove Village

Indian Hill --> The Village of Indian Hill

 

Pardon my French, but FUCK...THAT...SHIT. 

I wasn't correcting your grammar.  I was just taking your statement at face value--your later statement seems to have qualified that.

 

My apologies for coming off snarky. I could have been more clear in my intent, which was sadly lost in cyberspace.

Urn Thievery

http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20120518/NEWS010702/305180106/Funeral-urn-thief-avoids-prison-not-wrath?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|FRONTPAGE

Urn Thievery

http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20120518/NEWS010702/305180106/Funeral-urn-thief-avoids-prison-not-wrath?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|FRONTPAGE

 

This is truly a grave problem for our city.

OTR may be too cool for crime: http://www.local12.com/news/local/story/Over-the-Rhine-May-Now-Be-Too-Cool-For-Crime/TaOR7iCKOkuXxL3JECJfsQ.cspx

Thieves targeting metal in Northside neighborhood churches

this is lamer than lame

 

http://www.fox19.com/story/18772097/metal-thieves-target-five-northside-churches

 

http://www.wlwt.com/news/local-news/cincinnati/Serial-burglar-targets-Northside-churches/-/13549970/14795290/-/9aguxaz/-/index.html

 

http://www.wcpo.com/dpp/news/region_central_cincinnati/northside/thieves-targeting-northside-churches

^We still have to remember, Cincinnati is poverty-stricken, has been for ages, and anything that can happen probably will in our not-always-so-fair city.

anyone have Cincy's murder total YTD?  Thx

23 as of June 25th

Looks like the 24th occurred last night: Man arrested in Millvale homicide

thx, although summer tends to see higner numbers, that is trending to be a very low volume.  Good news.

Both the victim and the suspect are African American men with decently sized rap sheets.

 

Sad, but an unfortunate reality that nearly all homicides in Cincinnati come from one  socioeconomic class.

 

Until the community steps up there's little the police can do to prevent these. Things like the urban boot camp are the best tools the police have, but that's 50 kids out of an entire community that has had internally directed violence as the norm for generations.

So it appears that the current pace is for under 50?  That would be a nice improvement. 

http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20120706/NEWS/307060033/

 

Officer used a taser on someone this morning on Fountain Square at about 6:30am. Really no details were given in the article. I'm sure it will be updated soon, though.

 

EDIT: More details are available. Homeless man refused to move when police were doing a bomb sweep. He took a defensive stance and picked up a chair to use as a weapon against the officers and they tased him (according to the officers).

I just got a text that two are injured after shots were fired at 14th and Broadway in Pendleton... Anyone have any more info?

 

EDIT: http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20120706/NEWS/307060077/Shootings-reported-near-casino-site?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|FRONTPAGE

^ White-on-(I'm guessing but maybe not)white crime. Botched murder-suicide.

 

The director of operations at Cincinnati Memorial Hall shot his girlfriend Friday, then turned the gun on himself in a botched murder-suicide attempt, Cincinnati police said.

 

Cincinnati police officials said they believe Ray Henry, 45, shot Marianna Potee, 43, in a car at 324 E. 14th St., then shot himself.

 

The shooting happened about 1:20 p.m. Friday, just north of the city’s new casino site.

 

When will the white community speak up?

it's a murder/suicide, what the fuck is wrong with you?

^ You mean people right? Because murder is murder regardless.

It's a tragic story with no explanation. I hope all those affected by this tragedy can find some peace somehow.

 

http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20120706/NEWS/307060077/Shooting-leaves-2-critical-condition

 

PENDLETON — The director of operations at Cincinnati Memorial Hall shot his girlfriend Friday, then turned the gun on himself in a botched murder-suicide attempt, Cincinnati police said.

 

Cincinnati police officials said they believe Ray Henry, 45, shot Marianna Potee, 43, in a car at 324 E. 14th St., then shot himself.

 

The shooting happened about 1:20 p.m. Friday, just north of the city’s new casino site.

 

Henry and Potee were taken to University Hospital with critical injuries.

http://www.wcpo.com/dpp/news/local_news/DONE-overall-crime-down-cincinnati

 

Crime is down thus far this year -- violent crime down 9%, murders down 37% from last year's pace.  Looks like the city is currently on pace for a number of murders somewhere in the 40's.  That would be a great reduction. 

http://www.wcpo.com/dpp/news/local_news/DONE-overall-crime-down-cincinnati

 

Crime is down thus far this year -- violent crime down 9%, murders down 37% from last year's pace.  Looks like the city is currently on pace for a number of murders somewhere in the 40's.  That would be a great reduction.

 

The first two comments to that article are maddening. "OH PLEASE," and then "probably because more people are leaving the city!"

 

You can lead a horse to water. . . 

Friends of mine living on Montgomery in Pleasant Ridge had one of their front windows shot out a few evenings back - specifically, their toddler's playroom. Sadly, now they're talking about selling and moving out to the 'burbs.  Their block of Montgomery has lots of nice homes on it and has never ever felt unsafe to me.  Blech.

That PRidge event is getting a lot of attention on the various community forums.