Murders (red) and rapes (blue) citywide, except for a few rapes way out in Sayler Park (if I've got that neighborhood name correct).  These are city of Cincinnati stats, remember, so there are holes for St. Bernard and Norwood (although there seems to be one rape recorded in St. Bernard, which could possibly be an error in the geocoding).

This past week there have been many shootings in Cincinnati. For me it climaxed when a bullet shattered the window of one of my friends dorm room, who stays in Daniels Hall at UC. Does anyone know if these shootings are related to drugs or are they just random occurences?

^ I don't know if they have named suspects for most of them, but the ones they have named suspects for seem to have known the victims.  I don't recall a totally random shooting.

 

PigBoy...thanks for the maps, and please post as many as you feel like!

---

From the 2/5/06 Enquirer:

 

 

Police target West Side crime

With rate rising, more officers to be assigned there

BY WILLIAM A. WEATHERS | ENQUIRER STAFF WRITER

 

Crime is up on the city's West Side, so the police department is redeploying its personnel to place 25 more officers on the streets there.

 

That's welcome news to community council leaders of Cincinnati's West Side neighborhoods.

 

"All I can say is, bring it on," Melva Gweyn, president of the Westwood Civic Association, said Friday. "I think people are so disgusted - not just in Westwood but all over the city - with crimes and problems we have that they're ready to give (the officers) room and board if they come."

http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060205/NEWS01/602050340/1056/rss02

---

From same:

 

 

Neighborhood Summit focuses on police patrol

BY DAN KLEPAL | ENQUIRER STAFF WRITER

 

There were a lot of things to talk about at Saturday's fourth annual Neighborhood Summit, from environmental justice to schools and communities keeping children out of trouble by working together.

 

But the hottest topic wasn't on the agenda - the Cincinnati Police Department's proposed change to how neighborhood police officers will interact with the city's 52 communities.

 

http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060205/NEWS01/602050347/1056/rss02

 

From the 2/11/06 Enquirer:

 

 

Youth violence forum becomes dialogue

BY EILEEN KELLEY | ENQUIRER STAFF WRITER

 

AVONDALE - The curtain parted and the 10 teens put on their best bad-boy, gangster faces.

 

Many in the crowd of 60 people were taken aback.

 

Green bandanas covered most of the teens' mouths. Some wore oversized, Hollywood-style sunglasses. Others pulled the hoods of the faux-fur-trimmed jackets over their heads to just below their eyebrows.

 

http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060211/NEWS01/602110356/1056/rss02

 

^Good brief article. It's good to see citizens organizing events like these to open up generational lines of communication between the city's most at-risk kids and the people who might actually have a chance to help them out. As opposed to just blaming the police like Nate Livingston does.

^I agree! The more communication we have, the easier it is to get to the root of the problem and find a solution for our city's problems.

 

Props for the good articles grasscat.

I was listening to 1480 and Smitherman was talking about the new jail and the the proposal to give Marijuana offenses 30 day sentences.  While it does seem like sending more people to jail for relatively minor offenses is a waste of space, something does need to be done about crime in the city.  I'm just not sure going after marijuana users is the answer.

edale,

 

going after the marijuana buyers and sellers is a beginning, not the overall solution.  When Kentucky buyers come to our neighborhoods to purchase drugs and/or prostitution, we are the one's who suffer.  I am happy to see them tightening up on drugs buyers, impounding cars of those caught with prostitutes, but once again, this is only part of the solution, not the whole answer.  The largest part of the answer lies in the people, but we need these simple, basic laws behind us and behind our police.

My main concern with stiffening marijuana-possession penalities is whether we have the capacity to lock those people up.  If we arrest more people where will they go?  Needless to say, I don't see the new penalites being very effective without a new jail. 

well they are working on that to but why is it that we see so many Ky cars in the neighborhoods of OTR and the west End?  Why do they not just buy in Ky?  Why do people travel here from Ind to buy pot, can't they get it there?  It is because relative to the laws in there communities, Cincinnati is by far the most lenient.  Deterrence I believe is the biggest factor, hopefully we do not have to lock one person up, hopefully they aren't willing to risk it in the first place.

It's not the government's job to regulate what I put in my body.

Legalize the stuff & people will just buy in their own neighborhoods at tax paying stores & brothels.

The thuggery wil end.

Tax revenue will climb.

Police will be freed up to tackle more important issues.

STDs will be more controllable.

The dope dealers & prostitutes in OTR face death from their customers & competitors evey day. A short jail term is only an inconvenience for these people.

PROHIBITION DOESN'T WORK

Quim,

 

I could care less about what you put in your body, but when it is ingested at my front door I do have a problem with that.  Alcohol is legal, but you still can't sit in your car in front of my house and kick back shots of bourbon.  If you think that taxing it will stop people from smoking a crack rock in the car while my wife is walking by, then so be it.  But until the entire government decides to change there policy on drugs and capitulate to the criminals, well we have to work within the confines of the justice dept and not the IRS.  It seems that the inconvenience of jail time is enough of a deterrence to drive out of there community and into mine, so why would it not work here?  If the legal system is only an inconvenience, then why even bother coming to OTR?

going after the marijuana buyers and sellers is a beginning, not the overall solution.  When Kentucky buyers come to our neighborhoods to purchase drugs and/or prostitution, we are the one's who suffer.  I am happy to see them tightening up on drugs buyers, impounding cars of those caught with prostitutes, but once again, this is only part of the solution, not the whole answer.  The largest part of the answer lies in the people, but we need these simple, basic laws behind us and behind our police.

 

I agree, Michael.  I think this is a good start.

It's not capitulating to the criminals.

jeezelouise.

The only reason these guys have a business is because the government has created a black market. Do you think any of the knucklehead dope dealers in OTR could run a business on their own ?

If the selling of drugs were moved to Kroger & Walgreens, OTR would be the most drug free area in the city.

As far as people imbibing on the street - sure, that is illegal, but you are going to have more of that kind of thing in an urban area like OTR simply because people don't have the backyards, garages, basements & driveways that people in the suburbs do.

Quim,

 

I am not willing to say that because you have no where else to smoke your crack (and I don't mean you) that there is some legitimate reason to do it on the streets and alley ways of OTR.  I would be more apt to support your theory if the drugs were purchased in OTR and then consumed in the driveways and basements of the suburbs but that just ain't happenin. My point above is that perhaps you are right or perhaps you are wrong about drug legalization, druglaws just aren't going away anytime soon, so we are faced with what do we do today.

 

I am not arguing with you on the merits of drug legalization, but can you tell me why a KY or IND resident would choose to come here to buy drugs instead of there own community?  Why do they smoke crack on Mulberry St or any other street in OTR when they could do it in Covington or Newport?  I have a theory, and that theory is that we vs these other places have the most lenient drug laws therefore creating a vacuum and drawing these people in.   Why is it that when I drive down Vine I see open air drug dealing with individuals and groups who have no fear of any punishment whatsoever?

 

But even still, if you do happen to reverse the Federal Gov. entire policy of a war on drugs, don't you think that there will still be this black market because someone can deliver the product to the consumer "tax free" and cheaper?  But once again, I do not know what the answer ultimately is, all I am intrested in is stopping it today and imposing at least as stiff a penalty as surrounding communities I believe is a good start.

I've been skimming through all these pages because I don't have time to read all of it but it seems like if there are people driving to Over-the-Rhine to get and do drugs, then maybe it's because buying/doing drugs in over-the-rhine allows them to keep their drug lifestyle separate from their utopian suburban lifestyle? I don't know. I didn't know that it's common for outsiders to actually do their drugs in over-the-rhine too...from what I hear, they're pretty easy to get anywhere.  But if you don't have any hookups then obviously over-the-rhine is the archetypal example of where to get it so that's where people go. Even if I did do drugs, I wouldn't trust buying them from people I don't know.  Especially as an outsider going Over-the-Rhine, they won't ever have to see you again so they wont hesitate to rip you off.

From the 2/15/06 Eastern Hills Journal:

 

 

Leaders skeptical about cop plan

Neighborhood officer change not welcomed

BY FORREST SELLERS | COMMUNITY PRESS STAFF WRITER

 

MT. WASHINGTON -- The Cincinnati Police say a recent change will benefit Cincinnati communities.

 

Representatives for the communities, however, remain unconvinced.

 

As part of a reassignment of neighborhood police officers, the officers will no longer be the primary and sole liaisons between the community and police department. The role will now be filled by a number of officers.

 

"It's an evolution of the program," said Lt. Kurt Byrd with the Cincinnati Police Public Information Office.

 

http://news.communitypress.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060215/NEWS01/602150509/1074/Local

---

From the 2/15/06 Cincinnati Post:

 

Tougher pot penalty is opposed

By Tony Cook

Post staff reporter

 

A proposal to toughen the city's penalty for marijuana possession met firm resistance Tuesday from residents and some Council members.

 

Saying that Ohio has the most lax marijuana laws in the nation and that local police need more tools to combat drugs, Councilman Cecil Thomas proposed stiffer penalties for marijuana possession.

 

Illegal teen dances face harsher penalties

By Tony Cook

Post staff reporter

 

Nine weeks after the Christmas Eve shooting of a teen outside an illegal teen dance, Cincinnati City Council today will likely approve stricter penalties for violators of the city's permit laws.

 

Council's law committee approved harsher penalties for illegal dances Tuesday. The full Council is expected to pass the measure today.

 

http://news.cincypost.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060215/NEWS01/602150356/1010/RSS01

 

"I see drug dealers down there all the time," said Susan Frances of Over-the-Rhine. "They're not dealing marijuana."

Susan and I need to take a little tour up and down Vine, the mairjuana capital of the Tri-state.  Now I will admit, E. Clifton and McMicken does sell more crack but unless she confines herself to one or two streets, she should know better.

 

to me, this says it all...

Thomas wants to change the city code to make possessing less than 200 grams of marijuana a first-degree misdemeanor carrying a maximum sentence of six months in jail and a $1,000 fine. Now, possession of less than 100 grams is a minor misdemeanor under state law, meaning police can only write a $100 ticket.

 

Thomas said his plan would discourage those in neighboring states from coming into the city to buy drugs.

 

Those possessing less than eight ounces of marijuana in Kentucky face a maximum sentence of at least a year in jail and a $500 fine. In Indiana, those caught with less than 30 grams face up to a year in jail and a $5,000 fine.

 

"All 49 other states have some form of physical arrest or community control," said Thomas.

 

and to not do anything about this is a crime in and of itself.  I am normally a very optimistic person but issues like this are extremely frustrating to me.  Right now the OTR Chamber is putting together a joint Citizens on Patrol, so the way I see it, the citizens are going to have to be the ones knocking on the car windows of these people because the police have no power.  So because the city doesn't want to take action, the people have to do it for them. 

This is the part I like:

"He said increasing the violation to an arrest-level offense also would make it easier for police to search offenders and their vehicles and perhaps find guns. That's why Councilman Chris Monzel gave his support.

 

"Let's try to address something small and try to get something bigger out of it," he said."

 

Seems like Thomas is just looking for ways to circumvent the constitution.

The drug laws are bad. It makes no sense to make them worse.

If people are fornicating in the streets (and they are), you don't make sex illegal.

The proposed sentences can cost people their jobs and their homes.

The reason why ?

The damn constitution keeps getting in our way !

I disagree with using it simply as a tool for search and seizure, but Quim, don't you think that at least we should be where the other 49 states are?

The residents of Mulberry alone probably approach at least a dozen people a week (and those are just the one's we happen to see when we come out of our front doors) and chase them off.  Is this what downtown living is supposed to be?  I am not willing to settle for "its a peaceful drug" and they aren't hurting anyone.  Have you ever tried to convince someone to invest downtown when a drug deal takes place right in front of your investor?  This makes no sense whatsoever.

The damn constitution keeps getting in our way !

I want to help turn around a community, but the damn lack of drug laws that at least reach the level of the rest of the country is getting in our way.

I would like someone who is an advocate of tougher pot possession laws--i.e. jail time--in our city to please explain to me where we're going to put all of these so-called criminals.

 

Michael, I appreciate your belief that Vine St. is the marijuana capitol of the Tri-State, but, trust me, pot is everywhere.

 

On another note, the Justice Dept. decided not to file civil rights charges against Stephen Roach for the shooting of Timothy Thomas:

http://news.cincypost.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060217/NEWS01/602170342

 

Fine the living crap out of them. Take their car, their women, whatever it takes. It is everywhere, especially Vine but yes it is on every street down here including mine. The KY and IND problem is discussed every day, week month and year by the residence and all we can do is throw up our hands and say what can we do. I am not willing to sit back and let that be the answer. I understand that jailing them may be an issue, but there is an answer, we just need to find it.

As you can see this is a major frustration for me. I truly believe that this issue is not a "non issue" and it does have a negative effect on downtown. When a drug deal happens outside my door I don't just say well thats pot, no, it is a drug deal outside my front door! The same when driving down some of the streets of OTR, it is not harmless, it is detrimental to our community, whatever drug is being sold (because we don't get out and verify that it is just pot). When people come to visit, look at property, shop, eat, this is what they are confronted with. Is this the image we want to put out to everyone, "Eat, Live, Work, Buy Pot" No, we can do better than this.

 

I could care less what drugs people do or do not use. It really doesn't bother me one bit, but for god sakes, open air drug dealing and consuming the product in the streets, well that does bother me, tremendously. My house is not a meeting place for drug buyers and dealers and neither should OTR be the hub anymore, the place to go and get your drugs.  Is this where you want to live, is this one of the features you want to point out to mom when she comes to visit, because like it or not, it is in the wide open, you don't have to tell her, she can see it with her own eyes.

 

"My house is not a meeting place for drug buyers and dealers and neither should OTR be the hub anymore, the place to go and get your drugs."

anymore ?

Are you saying there _should_ be a hub ?

Can you just not imagine there _not_ being a hub ?

In other neighborhoods it is just not out in the open.

In other neighborhoods you don't have people selling junk from card tables on the sidewalk, either.

Maybe we should kill the dopers.

The sex pervert ex-prosecutor said that there is no room to put all the Cincinnati dope dealers in jail.

Why ?

Because it is more than just the guys hanging out at your house. It is people in every neighborhood in every town.

You just see it more because you decided to live in an urban area where people's dirty laundry is more out in the open.

In Hyde Park & Indian Hill the dealing is done in dens, kitchens & living rooms.

The guys who try to sell me dope by the KD Lamp bldg usually offer me anything & everything.

What the hell is "ice", anyway ?

Legalize the stuff & the "hub" goes away.

legalize the stuff & the turf wars go away.

Legalize the stuff & the black market profits go away.

Legalize the stuff & you can regulate it.

It is easier for a kid to get dope than alcohol.

Do you think the creative class people will want to live in a town where your life can be ruined for possessing a joint ?

What you propose is a step backwards.

FWIW - have you tried stooping ?

Quim,

You go your route and try and legalize drugs, I will go mine, we agree to disagree.  Their should not be a hub, but now it does exist, and it is OTR and the West End.  We have just instituted a program of car impounding for prostitution, why not try the same for people coming into the neighborhood to purchase drugs.  You say that what I propose is a step backwards?  Take a good look at where we stand today.  If you want to maintain the status quo, try it your way, but in the meantime, I will try mine, the residence will make it uncomfortable for the sellers and the buyers.  We will confront them.

 

Pic from OTR fan on Ohio pics.

<i>Finding a way to get rid of open drug dealing is a valid effort. Just because someone lives in an urban area, doesn't me they should just grin and bare it. </i>

 

<b>Cincinnati Police Bust 14 For Drugs </b>

 

Reported by: 9News

Web produced by: Mark Sickmiller

Photographed by: 9News

First posted: 2/17/2006 5:13:41 PM

 

Cincinnati Police say 14 people are in jail because they thought they were buying drugs from dealers.

 

But it turned out the sellers were detectives.

 

In addition, police impounded six cars.

 

A new city ordinance puts a $500 fine on any car involved in a drug transaction.

 

Police recently made the arrests in Madisonville and Over The Rhine.

 

http://www.wcpo.com/news/2006/local/02/17/arrests.html

Moonloop,

A reverse sting just happened Friday in front of Rothenburg School.  They do it almost monthly now.  Thanks for the info, I wasn't aware of the fine, its a start.

Oh, you mean the school that now stands empty and that preservationist won't allow anyone to do anything with it? Not that the two issues are related in anyway.  :|

Y'ever hear this'n by Ben Franklin, Mike ?

"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."

It's not just a neighborhood issue for me.

Your solutions for your neighborhood invade my home.

Your solutions created the problem.

You are maintaining the status quo.

What is the purpose of law ?

 

Quim,

You go your route and try and legalize drugs, I will go mine, we agree to disagree.

Moonloop,

Yup, thats the one, but I think you will see that as condos sooner rather than later.

 

Quim,

We can go back and forth with sayings all day long. you ever hear this little one by Edmund Burke?

 

But what is liberty without wisdom, and without virtue? It is the greatest of all possible evils; for it is folly, vice, and madness, without tuition or restraint.

 

I will take these one at a time.

It's not just a neighborhood issue for me.

Well it is for me, and I can only speak for my sector, this is a great enough of a concern for the residents of the Mulberry/McMicken Sector that the residents are willing to patrol the streets in order to discourage this.

 

Your solutions created the problem.

I was under the impression that the drug dealers and buyers created the problem. Is any other crime no longer a problem if we just make it legal and tax it? It has a measurable negative effect on our community, I did not do that, they did.

 

You are maintaining the status quo.

Not exactly, I am trying to up the penalty, I am the one here yelling and screaming that we should not leave things the way they are, they need to change. Without new laws on the books OTR is nothing but a vacuum for KY and Ind drug buyers, I don't want to maintain that status at all.

 

Your solutions for your neighborhood invade my home.

HUH? Unless you have a nice little drug vending operation going on out of your basement, I really don't see how it is. The way I see it the way things are right now is invading all of our homes, we can't escape it unless we just keep to ourselves, locked indoors, this is not my idea of urban living, it is urban death. I lived at my house on Mulberry for all of 3 weeks before I had a person walk into my front door while we were painting our living room (a real nice red to, you should see it!) asking to buy drugs. The bastard walked into my house! My fault for not having the door locked but still!

 

2 Hust Alley, just last week recieved a Knock on their door asking to buy drugs. Peete St., can't remember the address but the yellow stucco house, an old man lives their, nice guy, tells me he gets people coming to his house all the time asking for drugs.

 

109 Mulberry, my neighbor, had a man in his basement using drugs while construction was going on at his house.  Little prostitution action also.

 

101 Peete St. Foundation building run by Metro Man. Dealer arrested 2 months ago. I was attacked by his "girlfriend" that night as I got out of my car at my house on Mulberry. (she was convinced I was a cop) threatened to kill my wife and myself.

 

What is the purpose of law ?

to at least discourage some of this. Will it stop it entirely, no, but if the laws here do not at least meet the laws in the surrounding states (let alone the rest of the country) well people are willing and do drive across the border because it is safe here. We can do better than this!

 

"If liberty has any meaning it means freedom to improve."

Philip Wylie

My husband and I walked down Walnut St. last night around 8:15 pm.  When we walked past the Phoenix Cafe (right across the street from the Aronoff), we smelled pot.  It was pretty strong.  The first thing that came to my mind was that the police couldn't do a whole lot about it because of the lax laws.

I personally get tired of running off KY plated cars in and around the neighborhood. I have to admit it is rare to see the same people twice after my encounter with them though  8-) I like the idea of super high fines. You buy drugs here you lose!!!

The Phoenix cafe holds some kind of honor as being continually open as a bar since prohibition.

Prohibition - that failed effort that turned decent people into criminals and the real criminals got rich with the black market commodity the government provided them with.

That time when violent gang warfare cost countless lives & ruined communities.

When alcohol production was not regulated and the poorly made bootleg liquor poisoned and killed scores of people.

Prohibition has failed twice before. Now it is failing a third time. We can either get on with it or drag it out some more.

I guess some people just like misery.

I'm more of a legalize it kind of guy, but until we decide to do so as a nation, Cincinnati needs to fight tooth and nail against crimes that victimize innocent folks - and open air drug dealing does exactly that.  Just my opinion...

 

Just a question, Quimbob - you said, "Prohibition has failed twice before" - which was the second time?  I know about the 18th Amendment, but don't know what the other time you're referring to is...

"until we decide to do so as a nation, Cincinnati needs to fight tooth and nail against crimes that victimize innocent folks - and open air drug dealing does exactly that.  Just my opinion..."

 

I agree with your opinion RiverViewer.

 

Max, way to go, many residents are doing just what you are doing.  It is dangerous for us to approach these drug buyers but what choice do we have.

 

Quim, people will break laws all day long, but when we handicap the police through such low penalties, enforcement of the laws becomes non existent.  Laws need teeth, there must be consequence to breaking the laws otherwise it has no use.  I agree with you in that if we do not provide the adequate penalty behind drug laws, do away with them-any of them.  But if you want to make it effective, make breaking that law hurt.

 

Legalize the stuff & the black market profits go away.

 

I am interested in how all this works in your opinion though.  If we legalize drugs and it is sold behind the counter at CVS or wherever, the drug buyer is taxed, the state makes money, I get a better road or something.  Ok, I am fine with that, but what happens to the seller?  What does he do?  Does he just go back to his home play nintendo or re-enter the workforce and becomes the fry guy?  What does a newly unemployed drug dealer do?  Well, what did the mob do after prohibition ended, I guess they just find another crime to commit to make up for lost income and we can jail them for that. How does all this play out in your mind?

Michael - since you used one of my pix ;) I felt inclined to opine. Coming from a very suburban and conservative background, but having lived a bit, a find myself leaning more so towards the "legalize it" side.  I think both sides have been hashed out pretty well here, so not really anymore insight from me.  Your question as to where the dealers go if it is legalized is a new one for me, there will always be a criminal element, I just think that this crime is pervasive and insidious enough to deserve this type of radical approach.  But in the meantime I have had the thought many many times that if people of many stripes walked around OTR (including the police!!) and simply made themselves visible on a REGULAR and PROLONGED period of time all kinds of good stuff might happen.  Heck - just carry a camera around your neck...  you should see the stares I get when I tramp around the 'hood with mine.  (I am very careful, but have been warned a couple of times to move along)

 

I applaud you, your effort and your persistence.  We need more and more of this & folks like you.  There are small things I would like to do in terms of community events down there but not sure there is quite enough momentum, but I think it's close.

OTR fan,

The events create the momentum, we will have to talk.  Great pic also.  You are definetly on to something with citizens and police simply being visable.  This is why I have high hopes for a joint citizens on patrol in OTR.  The other day I walked home from a meeting on Main and I stopped at the Sharpe alley steps on Mulberry for a minute to look at some trees that we are going to be cutting back in a few weeks.  From that spot you can see down 3 or 4 blocks through Peete, E. Clifton, and McMicken.  It was packed, drug dealers, prostitutes were as far as the eye could see.  Within 2 minutes of them seeing someone watching them from Mulberry, not one person was on the entire alley.  I was just standing there, you are right in that there is a tremendous amount of power in presence.  More is coming.

Michael - I don't think the eventual occupation of today's drug dealers is the issue - they're probably a lost cause, or else will have to be helped on a case-by-case basis.  The idea is to stop tomorrow's drug dealer from ever embarking on the career.

Riverviewer

Prior to the civil war, a good number of the states enacted prohibition laws.

They were all repealed.

It was not a federal thing, tho.

I agree with you guys about presence. most of these goofballs are cowards following a path of least resistance. The huge vacuum in OTR + all the little alley ways & abandoned bldgs make the area a great place for criminal activity.

I am fine with community standards type stuff concerning imbibing in publc !

No sex & booze in the streets !

especially the sex. I came around a corner behind KD Lamp one day - eewwwww

But simply giving the laws "teeth" increases penalties on people acting responsibly in their homes. It goes the wrong way.

It also will not work. You will eventually have to enact a death penalty.

I think some middle eastern countries do that with alcohol.

Michael, you did not answer me about "stooping" on Mulberry.

Theoretically, it has worked well in Northside in dealing with street riff raff.

Michael - I like that picture very much also, it says a lot I think.  Yes, we will have to talk one day, but until then - be careful dude, those fellas ain't playing and some no longer care about themselves (very very sad), and if that's true they sure won't care about others.  Peete St. - they don't come any scarier.

OTR Fan,

Big changes on Peete St. Today! It is about to become a whole lot friendlier. But I will post that on Projects and construction later, exciting stuff!

 

 

Riverviewer,

I was, in a round about way, trying to raise the point of the law of unintended consequences.

 

Quimbob,

You and I may be arguing two different things.

increases penalties on people acting responsibly in their homes

I don't care what people do when acting responsibly (or irresponsibly) in their own homes. It is what happens on the streets that I care about. It is the irresponsible action in front of my home, that affects my home, or my safety when walking in or around the neighborhood of OTR. When it happens in public vs private, it hurts the community, what you do in your own home is your business and I am not trying to change that.

I am fine with community standards type stuff concerning imbibing in public !

No sex & booze in the streets !

I don't see where we disagree.

cowards following a path of least resistance.

This is more of my point. There is no resistance here vs the surrounding two states. We have created a vacuum.

 

"Stooping" I am not familiar with the term. Please explain.(I thought about a taser but stooping sounds better)

 

 

 

I know a lot of people on this forum have some great ideas for improvements in safety issues in OTR.  And I know a lot of people would like to help make OTR a better, safer, cleaner place but sometimes don't know how to help.  Well this is a start, I would like to extend an invitation to the Mulberry/McMicken Safety Sector Meeting this Wed to anyone who would like to attend.  Give us a helping hand in the community even if it is just showing support or offering ideas we would love to have you there.  This is a copy of our email announcement with the details.

 

The next Mulberry and McMicken Safety Sector Meeting is this Wednesday, February 22nd at Milton’s Tavern (301 Milton Street), 6:00 pm.  EVERYONE IS WELCOME.

 

Representatives from District One Neighborhood Officers, Keep Cincinnati Beautiful and the OTR Chamber will be present.

 

We will have the Statistics from the Drug Elimination Program for 2005 and discussion on Safe and Clean Grants.  Accomplishments and results from the Hot Spots Line and Post Cards will also be discussed.

 

Remember this is your opportunity to continue to share concerns, and accomplishments as we all work together to make OTR a safe and clean community.

 

So mark your calendars for this important Neighborhood Meeting and bring a neighbor.

 

This is slightly tangential, but one of the people waving a gun on that Metro bus last summer got 18 months in juvie:

http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060225/NEWS01/602250394/1056/rss02

 

Brandon Mincy, 18, got six years in prison.

 

 

<i>Leave those dealers alone, their just having a little harmless fun. . .not</i>

 

<b>UC study details 'open-air' drug sales</b>

7 Cincinnati street corners in UC study generate crime

 

BY DAN KLEPAL | ENQUIRER STAFF WRITER

Seven street corners known for drug dealing generated more than 3,000 police calls in 2004, according to a University of Cincinnati study that was presented to city council's Law and Public Safety Committee on Tuesday.

 

The study identified some key similarities in the so-called "open-air drug markets" that were found in four neighborhoods - Avondale, Evanston, Pendleton and West Price Hill.

Street drug markets that were studied

Seven open-air drug markets were studied by University of Cincinnati researchers in 2004/2005. Here's where the markets were:

 

* 3500 block of Burnet Avenue, Avondale

* Intersection of Gilbert/Woodburn/Montgomery/Hewitt, Evanston

* Intersection of Hewitt and Fairfield avenues, Evanston

* Intersection of Blair and Woodburn avenues, Evanston

* 3500 block of Montgomery Road, Evanston

* 500 blocks of 13th and 12th streets, Pendleton

* Intersection of Dewey and Glenway avenues, West Price Hill.

 

The study can be seen at www.uc.edu/oscor/. Click on past projects, scroll down the page to the study on open-air drug markets.

 

http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060301/NEWS01/603010403/1056

Hey fellas, I'm a bit late to the debate but I think there are some cogent points being made and I especially appreciate the info about the (now passed) safety meeting.  What I think is missing here is the idea of justice.  Should anybody be subject to jail for possessing a small amount of marijuana?  Personally I don't think so, I think our penalties are right on the mark, KY and IN be damned.  This is a crime with no victim.  Now, Michael Redmond, when you talk about the open air drug markets you are talking about something else entirely.  Criminalize the purchase of marijuana in Cincinnati if you're worried about this, and then enforce it.  The surveillance camera project is one way to deal with these persistant 'hot spots', there are a hundred others that deal with the problem that you are trying to deal with.

Make no mistake, the largest impact of this change will be young people in our city with NO CONNECTION to the open air markets that are the problem.  Under the current scheme a person convicted of simple possession can legally answer no when asked if they have a criminal record.  If this proposal goes forward, that will no longer be the case.  It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that this will adversely affect the educational and employment options of a large group of Cincinnatians.  This is bad policy.  If you want to deal with a problem (open air drug markets), create policies and laws that deal with THAT PROBLEM, not another problem altogether (simple possession of marijuana).  Remember we live in a state with no medical marijuana law, among other things.  Stupid marijuana laws have cost people their lives in other jurisdictions (google Jonathan Magbie sometime), we don't have that here and that's a very good thing, let's keep it that way!

"Some are so well established - in Pendleton, dealers were handing out business cards with a map on the back with directions on how to get there," Madensen said.

 

This made me think of the movie Half-Baked for some reason....

 

P.S> I added the rest of that article that gives the link to the study.

I've driven through the Hewitt/Fairfield one a number of times - a friend lives a couple blocks from there.  There are always a half-dozen people outside the corner convenience store, then most of the time young kids on the corners in each direction...it does kind of cut against the "Main Road" thesis, though - it's kind of off the beaten path, in the middle of a residential neighborhood...

horosho, Welcome to Urban Ohio.

 

create policies and laws that deal with THAT PROBLEM

What would you recommend? There is a problem here, there are victims, it is hurting our community. I do not care what the solution is, just give me one, because the status quo can not stand. Cameras are a start, not the solution. Not a single camera will go into my sector (for now). And the sale of a drug is already illegal, already enforced, but with a ticket of $100, my argument is one of penalty.

 

The biggest problem area was in Pendleton, where 780 calls to police were centered on the market, in the 500 blocks of 12th Street and 13th Street. Of those, only 36 involved drugs; the rest of the calls were about shootings, robberies, assaults and other crimes in the area and had a drug connection.

 

Crack was available at all the markets, but marijuana and heroin also were for sale.

 

This is a crime with no victim

 

On a side note, I am helping a friend move out of Pendleton tomorow because of this problem. Victims? come to Broadway tomorow and I will introduce you to a family of victims.

 

so once again, just give me a solution. Trivializing, or marginalizing the problem gets us no where (not saying you personally are) We need to do something, and unfortunately, I do not have an answer, but I do have reactions, and one of the reactions to the problem is putting feet on the ground and confronting people as they come into our community to buy drugs. Do I want to put citizens in the way of drug related shootings, robberies, assaults or other crimes? NO, but these are the problems our community is faced with and fortunately we have enough people in our community who are willing to put themeselves at risk for everyone elses greater good.

I support your right to posses and consume any drug you wish, I realize that any law hindering this god given right may ruin some lives, but you must also realize that this drug trade is ruining entire communities, and countless lives. It sucks in people who do not wish to be a part of this drug culture into fighting dealers, chasing off drug buyers, fearing walking down their own street. It does have a victim-all of us.

 

 

horosho, Welcome to Urban Ohio.

 

Thanks, glad to be here.

 

create policies and laws that deal with THAT PROBLEM

What would you recommend?  There is a problem here, there are victims, it is hurting our community.  I do not care what the solution is, just give me one, because the status quo can not stand.  Cameras are a start, not the solution.  Not a single camera will go into my sector (for now).  And the sale of a drug is already illegal, already enforced, but with a ticket of $100, my argument is one of penalty.

 

The problem here is not simple marijuana possession.  The problem here is open air drug dealing.  As of right now, no maps of camera placement have been released and I do not believe camera placement has been finalized.  I agree cameras are only the start BUT they can be a very potent weapon in this battle.  From the supply side, making multiple buys from the same dealer ratchets the crime up from possesion to distribution, which is a felony.  From the demand side, enact a law making it a crime to BUY (not posses, let's leave those who buy their pot out of town or grow their own out of this) marijuana within the City of Cincinnati.  Make it as tough as you want, do a couple of stings to get the word out, and see what that does (disclaimer: NO penalty has EVER been shown to eliminate the problem of illegal drugs).  Reference the open air crack markets in Cincinnati, possession of crack is a felony and we still have this problem.

 

The biggest problem area was in Pendleton, where 780 calls to police were centered on the market, in the 500 blocks of 12th Street and 13th Street. Of those, only 36 involved drugs; the rest of the calls were about shootings, robberies, assaults and other crimes in the area and had a drug connection.

Crack was available at all the markets, but marijuana and heroin also were for sale.

 

Pendleton's biggest problem is the housing stock.  I say again, Crack possession is a felony, and yet "Crack was available at all the markets".  This isn't rocket science, increased penalties will not stop this market.

 

This is a crime with no victim

On a side note, I am helping a friend move out of Pendleton tomorrow because of this problem. Victims? come to Broadway tomorrow and I will introduce you to a family of victims.

 

These people are victims of simple marijuana possession?  You are confusing the issue. It's actually pretty simple, this ordinance will not decrease drug dealing.

 

so once again, just give me a solution. Trivializing, or marginalizing the problem gets us no where (not saying you personally are) We need to do something, and unfortunately, I do not have an answer, but I do have reactions, and one of the reactions to the problem is putting feet on the ground and confronting people as they come into our community to buy drugs.  Do I want to put citizens in the way of drug related shootings, robberies, assaults or other crimes? NO, but these are the problems our community is faced with and fortunately we have enough people in our community who are willing to put themeselves at risk for everyone elses greater good.

 

That's silly, we don't "need to do something", we need to address the problem.  Criminalize the purchase of marijuana, arrest the dealers, move forward with the camera project, support cpop in Pendleton, address the vacant properties there with measures with real teeth (the revised VBML should help for one).

 

I support your right to posses and consume any drug you wish, I realize that any law hindering this god given right may ruin some lives, but you must also realize that this drug trade is ruining entire communities, and countless lives.  It sucks in people who do not wish to be a part of this drug culture into fighting dealers, chasing off drug buyers, fearing walking down their own street.  It does have a victim-all of us.

 

Um, thanks I guess.....  I do realize that the drug trade ruins lives.  What you need to realize is that this ordinance will not put a stop to that but will, in fact, ruin more lives (those denied educational and employment opportunities because of a 'drug conviction').  That's bad policy.

Open-air drug article stirs anger, confusion

 

Letters to the editor

 

I read "UC study details 'open-air' drug sales" (March 1), and first it made me angry and then it confused me. I am mad that we have this much drug traffic in our city. And I'm confused because if we know precisely where the drug sales are taking place, why isn't there a raid by the police at every one of those locations every night of the week?

 

Drug dealers are passing out business cards with maps to their locations and still they can operate? I know that we will never entirely stop the drug dealers or the crime that their drug trade creates but this could sure make a big dent in it. I also noted that most of these locations are near major highway on-ramps. Again, if we know this, why aren't we acting on the information? Why aren't we setting up traffic stops on those locations at night?

 

I remember a few years back when Ohio 125 had one to check drivers and bust DUIs. Couldn't we check for drugs? And what about the stores near the "open-air" sites that sell paraphernalia for the crack users? Why are we allowing them to sell this junk? Why are we making it so easy on the drug dealers and their customers? Have we completely surrendered? I see reports of shootings in those neighborhoods every day of the week. No one I know wants to go downtown for anything anymore at any time of the day or night, and the city leaders wonder why.

 

 

 

Kathleen Niemer, Cherry Grove

 

WEST PRICE HILL WILL OUTLAST DEALERS

 

Regarding the article "UC study details 'open-air' drug sales" (March 1): Open-air drug deals are a strain on neighborhoods. West Price Hill's intersection of Dewey and Glenway was referenced. I'm happy to tell people we are working on our problem. The Price Hill Civic Club and residents had identified this problem, and we have already addressed it. In fact, we expect that corner to be the springboard of new and better things for West Price Hill. Through the collaborative efforts of community and the city we have taken control of that block. And from that corner, we hope that more blocks and more corners become contributors to our neighborhood. We as a community will not let the thugs and dealers win; we will outfox them; we will brute-force them; and we will move them on - letting us enjoy our great neighborhood.

 

Peter Witte, West Price Hill

 

Horosho,

 

Quick question, someone from Ky or wherever comes into OTR.  They purchase marijuana on my street, in front of my house.  I look out the window, place a call, they drive off.  Description is given, plates number is taken, they are stopped on Liberty St. attemtping to get on the 471 Bridge.  Pot is found on their person but it is simple possesion by this point.  Am I missing something here?  Does a police officer have to watch the transaction for it to be illegal?

 

"Criminalize the purchase of marijuana, arrest the dealers, move forward with the camera project, support cpop in Pendleton, address the vacant properties there with measures with real teeth (the revised VBML should help for one)."

 

We are working on this also.  My positions have been clear not only by my post on Urban Ohio as to where I stand on each of these issues, but through my actions also. (especially with the VBML)

 

 

Open-air drug article stirs anger, confusion

 

Letters to the editor

 

Horosho,

 

Quick question, someone from Ky or wherever comes into OTR.  They purchase marijuana on my street, in front of my house.  I look out the window, place a call, they drive off.  Description is given, plates number is taken, they are stopped on Liberty St. attempting to get on the 471 Bridge.  Pot is found on their person but it is simple possesion by this point.  Am I missing something here?  Does a police officer have to watch the transaction for it to be illegal?

 

"Criminalize the purchase of marijuana, arrest the dealers, move forward with the camera project, support cpop in Pendleton, address the vacant properties there with measures with real teeth (the revised VBML should help for one)."

 

We are working on this also.  My positions have been clear not only by my post on Urban Ohio as to where I stand on each of these issues, but through my actions also. (especially with the VBML)

 

 

Michael,

I'm not really sure what you're getting at with the letters to the editor.  Are there people concerned about open air drug dealing?  I thought I had already conceded it was a problem but, if not, I concede it is a problem.  Are there people concerned enough to give up our constitutional right against illegal search and seizure?.  Yes, apparently so (random checkpoints?  yeah, that isn't troubling).  Does that mean that we should?  Um, no.

As for your question, I am not a lawyer but I think it would be difficult to convict based on the scenario you present.  I would be curious how many times a car has been stopped from this sort of call.  A more likely scenario would be for the neighborhood to coordinate with Street Corner, documenting times, license plates, locations, etc, and street corner conduct a reverse sting.

Let me ask you a question.  Since you can currently make this call about a crack deal, which the UC study indicated was the prevalent drug in these markets and which is a felony to possess, how has this affected the flow of drugs in your neighborhood?

How about some other questions, these concerning the fairness of the ordinance.  Should a 65 year old grandmother with Glaucoma be subject to jail for using the best relief she has been able to find?  Should a kid from a low income home whose only avenue to higher education is student aid be denied that avenue because he was caught smoking a joint?  What 'victims' are there of the guy that grows pot in his attic for personal use?  All of these people will be impacted by this ordinance, none have anything to do with the open air drug markets (well, maybe the kid with the joint does, but probably not since pot is pretty readily available without resorting to the corner in OTR/Pendleton).

I appreciate your efforts to clean up your neighborhood and I understand your frustration but this is not, in my opinion, going to do ANY good and, in fact, will harm our city. Keep up the good work but please reconsider your support for this ordinance.

Cheers,

h