Posted August 31, 200717 yr Last meter reader walking BY JANE PRENDERGAST | August 31, 2007 He walked through the front yard to the house and yelled loudly, “Water man!” Just like he’s supposed to, to warn people and dogs, as he has for 16 years: “Water works!” Bill Adelhardt is a meter reader for Greater Cincinnati Water Works. Or was. Friday was the last day. The last day for all meter readers. They’ve walked the streets of Cincinnati since at least 1859, back when water board president Christian Moerlein wanted to make sure everyone paid their fair share for water – water for cooking, bathing and horses. Read full article here: http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070831/NEWS01/308310016
August 31, 200717 yr Somebody, please, send this article to Duke Frickin' Energy. They're threatening to turn off my electric for the umpteenth time because they haven't gotten in to read my meter in almost a year...can't give them a key, because we have animals loose in the house, so I need to take a half day off just to pay them money...ach, I despise that...especially when they don't bother to show the hell up, as has happened twice already...
September 2, 200717 yr My meter still must be read by eye, and they still have my key. Somehow I don't totally believe this article. Another pet peeve of mine: You can pay every invoice in the world via internet, except Cincinnati Water Works. And if you ever need a new water tap, expect to pay out the a** and never know for sure when they will get to it. It may take months and months to get it scheduled.
September 2, 200717 yr You can pay on the city of Cincinnati web page OR any local major banks web site! Here is the main page! http://www.msdgc.org/ Cincy WW is one of best public water services in the country.
September 4, 200717 yr My meter still must be read by eye, and they still have my key. Somehow I don't totally believe this article. What is it you don't believe about this article. I don't know of many areas that have yet to go through the transition. You must be one of the 4-5k still waiting. Just give them a heads up: Call the water works, 591-7700, or go to http://www.cincinnati-oh.gov/water/pages/-3026-/
September 13, 200717 yr Water works protests permit Treated sewage outlet is upstream from intake valves BY MIKE RUTLEDGE | September 13, 2007 Greater Cincinnati Water Works, voicing concerns about pollution from Northern Kentucky's new Eastern Regional Wastewater Treatment Plant, plans to appeal the granting of the facility's discharge permit today or Friday. "We intend to file a petition for a hearing before the Commonwealth of Kentucky Environmental and Public and Protection Cabinet," said Dan Schlueter, legal affairs administrator for the water works. Read full article here: http://news.nky.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/AB/20070913/NEWS0103/709130407
September 13, 200717 yr You can pay on the city of Cincinnati web page OR any local major banks web site! Here is the main page! http://www.msdgc.org/ Cincy WW is one of best public water services in the country. thanks for the heads-up on the online payment. Still, out of all the utility companies I have worked with to arrange new service for a building, they are the most expensive and the slowest and least communicative about when they will start. They didn't put a remote reader at my site, because they need to run a wire outside and couldn't figure out how to do it.
September 14, 200717 yr Not exactly Cincinnati Water Works, but I thought it could fit here... Clean-water technology is local strength[/url] BY JOSEPH ALLEN | September 14, 2007 Water is the key to social and economic development. And that's as true today as it has been throughout history. The difference, perhaps, is that no longer can the world take clean water for granted. While this presents all countries with a daunting challenge, it also presents tremendous opportunities for those who develop the technologies securing our most precious commodity. Read full article here: http://cincinnati.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/stories/2007/09/17/story17.html
October 4, 200717 yr I don't see why Cincinnati and Hamilton can't charge higher rates to these places. Supply and demand, right? Butler Co. water deal averts increase Cincinnati Water Works triples sale amount before penalty fees BY SHEILA MCLAUGHLIN | October 4, 2007 Butler County commissioners have struck a deal that will keep water rates from rising next year. The agreement with Greater Cincinnati Water Works allows the county to buy three times as much water per day before facing penalty fees, officials said. The water system serves residents and businesses in West Chester, Liberty, Fairfield, Hanover and Ross townships and the village of New Miami. It draws water from the city of Hamilton and Cincinnati. The move will help stabilize water rates, which had been among the highest in the state. After a 3 percent increase that took effect this year, a typical family of four pays about $45 a month, according to the water system's Web site. Read full article here: http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071004/NEWS01/710040383/1056/COL02
October 19, 200717 yr Water Works spinoff could make big splash BY DAN MONK | October 19, 2007 The city of Cincinnati could receive millions of dollars in annual dividends and improve expansion prospects for the Greater Cincinnati Water Works under a new proposal to spin off the city-owned utility into a regionally focused water district. City Manager Milton Dohoney floated the idea in a recent memo to Mayor Mark Mallory and members of City Council. In an interview this week, Dohoney said the prospect of regular dividends is one reason the district format is being studied. He expects a team of outside consultants and city staffers to complete a feasibility study on the idea by next summer. Read full articles here: http://cincinnati.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/stories/2007/10/22/story3.html
October 26, 200717 yr Liquid Assets Water district could create stream of revenue Cincinnati officials are exploring breaking off the Cincinnati Water Works into a separate agency that is not part of the city. Cincinnati City Manager Milton Dohoney, in a memo to Mayor Mark Mallory and City Council members, said city administrators are "undertaking an exploratory project" that would test the notion of transforming the Cincinnati Water Works into a water district. The move, if enacted, could create a much-needed source of revenue for the budget-strapped City of Cincinnati. The creation of a separate water district would allow the city to lease the assets of the Water Works, which it owns, back to the water company. Read full article here: http://news.cincypost.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071025/NEWS01/710250380
November 12, 200816 yr Cities to consider water deal Lebanon might get its water from Cincinnati starting in 2013 and for 40 years thereafter. A plan under consideration by Cincinnati City Council would let Cincinnati City Manager Milton Dohoney negotiate an agreement with Lebanon. Read full article here: http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20081112/NEWS0108/811120439/1169/NEWS
November 13, 200816 yr Is it? Yes, the city is getting some chump change for the deal, but doesn't this just encourage more sprawl? Of course the City doesn't care about the sprawl, but we should. And yes, it's already out of hand and beyond repair. Does that mean we shouldn't blink an eye?
November 13, 200816 yr Is it? Yes, the city is getting some chump change for the deal, but doesn't this just encourage more sprawl? Of course the City doesn't care about the sprawl, but we should. And yes, it's already out of hand and beyond repair. Does that mean we shouldn't blink an eye? Good point. Maybe Cinti Water Works should put conditions on the deal that would discourage Lebanon from selling water to surrounding townships in the future. A condition could be that rates would increase if they re-sold water to sprawling township areas. On the other hand - it's hard for the City to pass up $2.5M a year.
November 13, 200816 yr Is it? Yes, the city is getting some chump change for the deal, but doesn't this just encourage more sprawl? Of course the City doesn't care about the sprawl, but we should. And yes, it's already out of hand and beyond repair. Does that mean we shouldn't blink an eye? While there are no easy answers to these issues it does allow Lebanon to continue it sprawl and even compete for businesses that might relocate from Cincinnati (as we have seen happen many times). I wonder if the potential job relocations, and people relocations would equal $2.5 million in value? This is why I am a big supporter of urban growth boundaries in state laws. If you are outside of that growth boundary area you can't receive sewer and water facilities. All you can build is what a well and septic on the property can handle.
November 13, 200816 yr Is it? Yes, the city is getting some chump change for the deal, but doesn't this just encourage more sprawl? Of course the City doesn't care about the sprawl, but we should. And yes, it's already out of hand and beyond repair. Does that mean we shouldn't blink an eye? When Cincinnati does what Cincinnati needs to do ... then we'll start seeing a migration to the city and its core. With or without water rights. Until then, we'll make money on those that aren't urban freaks like us ... which is okay.
November 13, 200816 yr When Cincinnati does what Cincinnati needs to do ... then we'll start seeing a migration to the city and its core. With or without water rights. Until then, we'll make money on those that aren't urban freaks like us ... which is okay. That sounds like a pipe dream mentality. Cincinnati isn't the only city not have control over their own utilities, succumbing to deals with suburban towns, and losing the battle against sprawl. The dream of migration to the city and it's core is unrealistic because you'll still see an out flux from the city to the suburbs, suckling on existing infrastructure, and providing little need for these outlying areas to develop without neighboring (or in this case, remote) utilities. Utilities are a major proponent of sprawl. As ragerunner stated, "All you can build is what a well and septic on the property can handle", if you don't provide fodder that encourages sprawling development. Of course it's a great move for Cinti Water Works, but I think Cincinnati itself comes out of it a loser.
November 13, 200816 yr ^I don't think it's a "pipe dream mentality." I think it is reasonable to expect that if a given place makes the necessary improvements people will "vote with their feet" and move to the area that best fits their needs/desires. Most data seems to be pointing that people prefer to live in walkable neighborhoods that have a sense of place and yadda, yadda, yadda. Things such as public schools, perceived safety, etc are holding people back from moving back though. If you level the playing field then I think the migration patterns will change (evidence seems to support this).
November 14, 200816 yr I tend to think that the kind of person who lives as far out as Lebanon isn't the type who would want to live in the city, no matter what it's like. They just want different things. Personally, I think it's a good deal for Cincinnati. People in Lebanon who wouldn't move into the city anyway get the water they need, and Cincy gets $2.5 million extra per year to put toward things that will make it a more attractive place to live.
November 14, 200816 yr I tend to think that the kind of person who lives as far out as Lebanon isn't the type who would want to live in the city, no matter what it's like. Until then, we'll make money on those that aren't urban freaks like us ... which is okay. Exactly.
November 14, 200816 yr I tend to think that the kind of person who lives as far out as Lebanon isn't the type who would want to live in the city, no matter what it's like. They just want different things. Personally, I think it's a good deal for Cincinnati. People in Lebanon who wouldn't move into the city anyway get the water they need, and Cincy gets $2.5 million extra per year to put toward things that will make it a more attractive place to live. I think this is not as much about people as about jobs. By providing expanded utilities to the suburban areas you create an environment that allows companies and jobs that are currently inside the beltway to move to 'greener fields' (or jobs that are new to have more selection in the suburbs). We have seen this happen over and over here and in other parts of US. This is were the urban area really takes a hit with this kind of process. Not providing these services may not stop all the movement of jobs but its does have the ability over time to slow the exodus down. This will then slowdown the population growth in those same suburban areas due to the lack of jobs near by.
November 14, 200816 yr ^ I think you definitely have a point there. But as long as the extra $2.5 million goes toward some sort of annual improvement that makes Cincinnati itself better (streetcar operating fund?), then I'm willing to take the chance on this one.
November 14, 200816 yr ^ I think you definitely have a point there. But as long as the extra $2.5 million goes toward some sort of annual improvement that makes Cincinnati itself better (streetcar operating fund?), then I'm willing to take the chance on this one. This same concept by Cincinnati Water Works made West Chester what it is today. Without water from Cincinnati, West Chester and a lot of the northern suburban areas would have struggled significantly to develop as much as they have since they had limited water resources of their own (no river access and limited underground aquifers). Those water agreements have cost Hamilton County and the urban core 1,000s of residents and 1,000s of jobs. (I can almost guarantee that the financial tax loses are a lot more than the money that the water works gets from the agreements.) As far as the potential for this money going to the streetcars, there are laws and regulations on how utility money can and can't be spent in a community. I am not saying it can't go to streetcars, but, there is also a good chance it can't. Utility and road construction decision(s) have cause more damage to America's urban core cities than another other action. Even more than, crime and schools by a long shot.
November 14, 200816 yr As far as the potential for this money going to the streetcars, there are laws and regulations on how utility money can and can't be spent in a community. I am not saying it can't go to streetcars, but, there is also a good chance it can't. Yeah, it's very possible that it can't. Just using that as an example of an improvement that needs a stable funding source.
November 14, 200816 yr ^ I think you definitely have a point there. But as long as the extra $2.5 million goes toward some sort of annual improvement that makes Cincinnati itself better (streetcar operating fund?), then I'm willing to take the chance on this one. This same concept by Cincinnati Water Works made West Chester what it is today. Without water from Cincinnati, West Chester and a lot of the northern suburban areas would have struggled significantly to develop as much as they have since they had limited water resources of their own (no river access and limited underground aquifers). Those water agreements have cost Hamilton County and the urban core 1,000s of residents and 1,000s of jobs. (I can almost guarantee that the financial tax loses are a lot more than the money that the water works gets from the agreements.) I think you're oversimplifying the issue a bit, and if I were to attribute suburban sprawl to one thing it wouldn't be the water works company, but rather the Eisenhower Interstate System and the "American Dream" propaganda post WWII. These communities are going to get their water one way or another. If it's not provided by Cincinnati Water Works then they'll do it themselves (as much of Butler, Warren and Clermont Counties are). It has also been deemed an illegal way to halt development the way you are suggesting. Until the laws change, then the it is a moot point and I don't think the laws for that are going to change anytime soon.
November 15, 200816 yr ^ I think you definitely have a point there. But as long as the extra $2.5 million goes toward some sort of annual improvement that makes Cincinnati itself better (streetcar operating fund?), then I'm willing to take the chance on this one. This same concept by Cincinnati Water Works made West Chester what it is today. Without water from Cincinnati, West Chester and a lot of the northern suburban areas would have struggled significantly to develop as much as they have since they had limited water resources of their own (no river access and limited underground aquifers). Those water agreements have cost Hamilton County and the urban core 1,000s of residents and 1,000s of jobs. (I can almost guarantee that the financial tax loses are a lot more than the money that the water works gets from the agreements.) As far as the potential for this money going to the streetcars, there are laws and regulations on how utility money can and can't be spent in a community. I am not saying it can't go to streetcars, but, there is also a good chance it can't. Utility and road construction decision(s) have cause more damage to America's urban core cities than another other action. Even more than, crime and schools by a long shot. I have a hard time swallowing this considering Dayton and Cincinnati are and will continue to merge. It was inevitable from the very beginning of the two cities' start. They're too close together!
November 15, 200816 yr Isn't Cincinnati basically hooking up Lebanon's system to the bigger system and managing it? The investment is already in Lebanon as I understand.
November 15, 200816 yr ^ I think you definitely have a point there. But as long as the extra $2.5 million goes toward some sort of annual improvement that makes Cincinnati itself better (streetcar operating fund?), then I'm willing to take the chance on this one. This same concept by Cincinnati Water Works made West Chester what it is today. Without water from Cincinnati, West Chester and a lot of the northern suburban areas would have struggled significantly to develop as much as they have since they had limited water resources of their own (no river access and limited underground aquifers). Those water agreements have cost Hamilton County and the urban core 1,000s of residents and 1,000s of jobs. (I can almost guarantee that the financial tax loses are a lot more than the money that the water works gets from the agreements.) I think you're oversimplifying the issue a bit, and if I were to attribute suburban sprawl to one thing it wouldn't be the water works company, but rather the Eisenhower Interstate System and the "American Dream" propaganda post WWII. These communities are going to get their water one way or another. If it's not provided by Cincinnati Water Works then they'll do it themselves (as much of Butler, Warren and Clermont Counties are). It has also been deemed an illegal way to halt development the way you are suggesting. Until the laws change, then the it is a moot point and I don't think the laws for that are going to change anytime soon. Agreed, From the original post: "Utility and road construction decision(s) have cause more damage to America's urban core cities than another other action. Even more than, crime and schools by a long shot." While the laws have said you can't keep someone from having land development rights, it has said that providing utilities is not a legal right. There are several cities and counties in the US that use urban service boundaries (not urban growth boundaries) to control growth. This approach has held up in court over and over. While Butler County may have developed some water resources they don't have enough of their own water to grow to the level they are currently at without help. Cincinnati and Hamilton (to a smaller degree) utilities made West Chester what it is today. Without their utility assistance they simple could not support what they have with their own resources.
November 15, 200816 yr I have a hard time swallowing this considering Dayton and Cincinnati are and will continue to merge. It was inevitable from the very beginning of the two cities' start. They're too close together! I have often wondered how many couples live in Cincy's northernmost suburbs because one of them works in Dayton and the other in Cincinnati. It would make an aggravating but doable commute in either direction.
November 15, 200816 yr ^ I think you definitely have a point there. But as long as the extra $2.5 million goes toward some sort of annual improvement that makes Cincinnati itself better (streetcar operating fund?), then I'm willing to take the chance on this one. This same concept by Cincinnati Water Works made West Chester what it is today. Without water from Cincinnati, West Chester and a lot of the northern suburban areas would have struggled significantly to develop as much as they have since they had limited water resources of their own (no river access and limited underground aquifers). Those water agreements have cost Hamilton County and the urban core 1,000s of residents and 1,000s of jobs. (I can almost guarantee that the financial tax loses are a lot more than the money that the water works gets from the agreements.) As far as the potential for this money going to the streetcars, there are laws and regulations on how utility money can and can't be spent in a community. I am not saying it can't go to streetcars, but, there is also a good chance it can't. Utility and road construction decision(s) have cause more damage to America's urban core cities than another other action. Even more than, crime and schools by a long shot. I have a hard time swallowing this considering Dayton and Cincinnati are and will continue to merge. It was inevitable from the very beginning of the two cities' start. They're too close together! I can point to communities in the US that have urban service boundaries that have kept the 'fill in sprawl' from happening. Its all about politics, and the power of the development community. Many European cities that are close to each other have also managed not to 'fill in the sprawl' between them. They simply don't provide services to the area between the towns. Dayton, Cincinnati and Hamilton have paid a high prices for their willingness to provide the needed utilities for that sprawl between the cities. Many other cities in the US have also done the same thing and end up with the same loses as this region core cities. Its not an inevitable event, with the right decisions, rules and state laws it didn't have to happen. But it did, I just think it not good policy to continue to follow the same miss guided decision of the past, now that we can clearly see what the outcomes of those past decision on utilities have created. I also don't support the continuation of new road development in the outer suburban areas, the cost, (financial and socially) is to great and it continues to take from our urban areas the finite resources that we have for infrastructure in the US.
November 16, 200816 yr ^ Can you name 2 cities in the US that haven't shown signs of merging that are this close? I'm not saying there isn't, I just can't think of any.
November 16, 200816 yr ^ Can you name 2 cities in the US that haven't shown signs of merging that are this close? I'm not saying there isn't, I just can't think of any. One place is Martin County Florida were I use to work as a redevelopment specialist. To the south is Palm Beach County. If you look at the Palm Beach County Line you can see were the development just stops along 1-95 all the way through Martin County. This is were their urban service boundary stops. Then take a look at the county to the north, St. Lucie and see what type of development pattern they have with no urban service boundary. This region is know as the Treasure Coast with a population of about 1.3 million. I am not saying this is wide spread, but its is legal and can be done. Unfortunately in the US we have a political and economic system that strongly supports the decay of the inner cities and the development of sprawl. What would be nice is just to see the urban city leaders discuss the impacts of utilities on the region and their financial stability.
November 17, 200816 yr ^I'm still not convinced that the consolidation of public services/utilities is somehow exacerbating sprawl. I'm right there with you about limiting sprawl in just about any way we can, but I think efficient governments should also be a goal and it just makes sense to consolidate where possible.
November 17, 200816 yr ^ Can you name 2 cities in the US that haven't shown signs of merging that are this close? I'm not saying there isn't, I just can't think of any. One place is Martin County Florida were I use to work as a redevelopment specialist. To the south is Palm Beach County. If you look at the Palm Beach County Line you can see were the development just stops along 1-95 all the way through Martin County. This is were their urban service boundary stops. Then take a look at the county to the north, St. Lucie and see what type of development pattern they have with no urban service boundary. This region is know as the Treasure Coast with a population of about 1.3 million. I am not saying this is wide spread, but its is legal and can be done. Unfortunately in the US we have a political and economic system that strongly supports the decay of the inner cities and the development of sprawl. What would be nice is just to see the urban city leaders discuss the impacts of utilities on the region and their financial stability. I'm not talking about small towns, lol. I'm talking about 2 decent sized cities as close as Dayton and Cincy that haven't showed signs of merging.
November 17, 200816 yr ^ Can you name 2 cities in the US that haven't shown signs of merging that are this close? I'm not saying there isn't, I just can't think of any. One place is Martin County Florida were I use to work as a redevelopment specialist. To the south is Palm Beach County. If you look at the Palm Beach County Line you can see were the development just stops along 1-95 all the way through Martin County. This is were their urban service boundary stops. Then take a look at the county to the north, St. Lucie and see what type of development pattern they have with no urban service boundary. This region is know as the Treasure Coast with a population of about 1.3 million. I am not saying this is wide spread, but its is legal and can be done. Unfortunately in the US we have a political and economic system that strongly supports the decay of the inner cities and the development of sprawl. What would be nice is just to see the urban city leaders discuss the impacts of utilities on the region and their financial stability. I'm not talking about small towns, lol. I'm talking about 2 decent sized cities as close as Dayton and Cincy that haven't showed signs of merging. But the principles are still the same and the growth demands are much higher in that part of the country and then here.
November 17, 200816 yr ^I'm still not convinced that the consolidation of public services/utilities is somehow exacerbating sprawl. I'm right there with you about limiting sprawl in just about any way we can, but I think efficient governments should also be a goal and it just makes sense to consolidate where possible. It actually very simple if you don't build the infrastructure the development community doesn't build in that location and will go were the infrastructure is located. It really is that simple. Weather the political and economic forces in a region are willing to take such action is another discussion. No water no development. No roads no development.
November 17, 200816 yr ^I'm still not convinced that the consolidation of public services/utilities is somehow exacerbating sprawl. I'm right there with you about limiting sprawl in just about any way we can, but I think efficient governments should also be a goal and it just makes sense to consolidate where possible. It actually very simple if you don't build the infrastructure the development community doesn't build in that location and will go were the infrastructure is located. It really is that simple. Weather the political and economic forces in a region are willing to take such action is another discussion. No water no development. No roads no development. The principles are the same?!? C'mon, rage ... I know you can do better than this. You're comparing Dayton and Cincinnati to towns that are 500 ppl/sq mi and the 2 growing towards each other! lol
November 17, 200816 yr Simple question ... can you name 2 medium to large cities that are not showing signs of growth towards each other?
November 17, 200816 yr ^I'm still not convinced that the consolidation of public services/utilities is somehow exacerbating sprawl. I'm right there with you about limiting sprawl in just about any way we can, but I think efficient governments should also be a goal and it just makes sense to consolidate where possible. It actually very simple if you don't build the infrastructure the development community doesn't build in that location and will go were the infrastructure is located. It really is that simple. Weather the political and economic forces in a region are willing to take such action is another discussion. No water no development. No roads no development. I understand the concept...I'm just not sold on the idea that the consolidation of public services/utilities is the thing that is exacerbating sprawl. I think our priorities should be elsewhere when dealing with this.
November 17, 200816 yr ^I'm still not convinced that the consolidation of public services/utilities is somehow exacerbating sprawl. I'm right there with you about limiting sprawl in just about any way we can, but I think efficient governments should also be a goal and it just makes sense to consolidate where possible. It actually very simple if you don't build the infrastructure the development community doesn't build in that location and will go were the infrastructure is located. It really is that simple. Weather the political and economic forces in a region are willing to take such action is another discussion. No water no development. No roads no development. I understand the concept...I'm just not sold on the idea that the consolidation of public services/utilities is the thing that is exacerbating sprawl. I think our priorities should be elsewhere when dealing with this. I am not sure this is as much about consolidation as its is about the expansion of water to suburban green fields. Its just simply adding capacity for more suburban growth on the very edge of suburbia.
February 6, 200916 yr Water dispute hitting the boiling point in Harrison The city of Cincinnati is suing Harrison to prevent the expansion of that city’s water utility. The Jan. 23 lawsuit asserts Greater Cincinnati Water Works was granted an exclusive right to sell water in Crosby, Harrison and Whitewater townships under a 1994 agreement with Hamilton County commissioners. Harrison annexed about 400 acres in Crosby Township in 2006 and contracted to install water pipes there. Read full article here: http://cincinnati.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/stories/2009/02/09/tidbits1.html
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