Cincinnati IS a pretty conservative place.  People don't generally like change around here.

 

Where do you LIVE in Cincinnati?

 

 

Also, I have spent half of my adult life in the South; Cincinnati's downtown blows away everything in the South at street level and its skyline is better than all but Atlanta and Miami's.  If you are coming from somewhere like Chicago or New York of course Cincinnati will seem tiny but it is positively impressive after spending a few months straight in Dixie. 

 

Amen Jake, I laugh when people talk about lifeless cities being great because they have a nice skyline.  In my opinion the downtowns of larger cities like Dallas and Houston are awful and can't touch Cincinnati in life, charm, density and function.  People love to judge cities based on what they see on a postcard. 

 

 

Just look at this place, what a dense, great looking city:

http://www.cincyimages.com/media/CincinnatiCBD.mov

C'mon guys.  Cincy is a conservative town.  I'm not talking about local or national politics being conservative.  I'm talking about big things.  Changes.  Chances.

 

Just look at the light rail situation.  Two freaking thirds of the people in this town said it wasn't a good idea.  Meanwhile I live in Loveland, and my fastest route to downtown is through KY.  Point being, this town moves SLOOOOWWWWLY.  The only thing that ever seemed to go through at a reasonable pace was the fountain square renovation.

 

That being said, I would imagine that the developers knew that building phase I would increase the vacancy rate. It's not like that was unexpected.  I don't contend that's the reason there's no new news.

Again perception.  You live in Loveland, why should the city pay to make your commute to the city more bearable?  If you don't like the commute move somewhere where the commute is bearable.  How is this related to the city being conservative?  You also live in a conservative suburb and are influenced by the people around you in Loveland to reflect a false sense of reality when dealing with the city and the people in the city limits. 

 

You have also been influenced from a bias media. I mean look at your last sentence in the first paragraph.  Have you not been part of the metro for the last 6 years? 

 

Here are several developments that have happened

 

* Paul Brown Stadium

* Great American Ballpark

* Ft. Washington Way gutted and rebuilt

* Convention Center Remodeled and expanded

* Government Square Rebuilt

* Fountain Square & Parking Garage Reconstructed

* $4 million renovation to make Purple People Bridge one of the few dedicated pedestrian bridges to cross two states

* Queen City Square Phase I

* Kroger Parking Garage & Condos

* Contemporary Art Center

* National Underground Freedom Center

* Taft Museum Remodel

* New Residential Construction going up all over the city

 

Vacancy rates in downtown Cincinnati are some of the lowest in the Midwest.  The burbs of Cincinnati are another story. 

 

Over 60% of the city of Cincinnati voted for John Kerry.  The city repealed Article XII.  Gay friendly establishments like Hamburger Mary's continue to thrive while new places like Union Center Video Cafe open.

 

No one is saying that Cincinnati is a tree hugging town with PETA activists waving signs at people who drive over the Brent Spence, but for the love of god, it isn't this conservative mecca that people like to make it out to be.  If it was, I WOULDN'T BE HERE. 

 

I'd be more than happy to vote in favor of a tax incentive in Clermont County, as would my parents in Kenton.  I don't know why it's not a regional initiative.  Especially Boone with the airport out there.

 

I'm not influenced by anyone in Loveland because I don't talk about this stuff with them.  I talk with you guys.  And, believe it or not, I'm able to come to my own conclusions.  I'm not 6.

 

I don't argue that things never get done.  But to say that this part of the country is groundbreaking and progressive in the sense of business models, city/county relationships, whatever, would be false.

 

And that's not necessarily bad.  There are alot of big cities with big buildings that sit empty.  There are unused parks and rail lines.  There are traffic jams on 2 year old expressways.  Those that move the quickest aren't always the best and brightest.

 

I'm not saying the town is conservative the way that some other cities view us.  As I originally said, I'm not talking about political conservatism, but procedural conservatism.  They're different.  The fact remains we're a city that waits to see how it works elsewhere.  In both good instances and bad.

I don't argue that things never get done.  But to say that this part of the country is groundbreaking and progressive in the sense of business models, city/county relationships, whatever, would be false.

 

I don't think one person on here has ever said that Cincinnati is groundbreaking and progressive in the sense of business models.

I think if none of the above projects was never  done. We would be just like Dayton. Bleeding jobs, because nothing ever gets done around here.

 

The vote came too soon, after the stadiums was built, that's why it failed. If it was done today I think it would pass. Cincinnati has the lowest vacancy rate in  industral space  in the country. We we can some how build industrial skyscraper's we would be set..lol

^ Thank you for reminding me about the other point I wanted to make in my rant.

 

Just look at the light rail situation.  Two freaking thirds of the people in this town said it wasn't a good idea. 

 

First it wasn't 2/3rds of the people in this town (city), it was 2/3rds of the people in Hamilton County.  The proposed rail levy was flawed in so many ways, it was too bloated and optimistic and wrapped with a Bus system overhaul while at it.  It was a $2 billion dollar levy.  They tried to include too much and this was immediately after the county had just had two tax hikes from a $100 million over budget Paul Brown Stadium and Great American Ballpark. The light rail group had good intentions but were naive to think they could pull it off plus you never ever include bus system overhauls with light rail.  It only leads to animosity toward the levy and it will more than likely fail.

I don't think there is anything wrong with not allowing any new buildings top Carew.  How can one say that it is conservative and stubborn to not allow one.  Is D.C. too conservative?  How bout Paris?  They both have height restrictions and seem to be alright cities.  Carew is Cincinnati's capital, its the tip of the queen's crown, its right in the heart of downtown.  I agree also agree with jmeck, anything else that is somewhat close to Carew and is not at the center would totally f up the skyline. 

 

Also, word around city hall is that the new administration is really focused on transit.  So I would not be surprised to see some type of transit plans soon.

I don't think there is anything wrong with not allowing any new buildings top Carew.  How can one say that it is conservative and stubborn to not allow one.  Is D.C. too conservative?  How bout Paris?  They both have height restrictions and seem to be alright cities.  Carew is Cincinnati's capital, its the tip of the queen's crown, its right in the heart of downtown.

A skyscraper-sized height restriction would be strange.  Height limits with aesthetic purposes (i.e. not those imposed because of flight paths) do more for the street than the skyline.  I may be wrong, but I've heard the rule in DC is related to the proportions of building height and street width.  Here in Madison, there is a height restriction that forbids buildings from being much taller than the base of the state capitol's dome, and now this is resulting in the downtown area filling up with a bunch of buildings that are as tall as they're allowed to be.  Thus the "skyline" (if there is such a thing) now consists of a bunch of boxes with a dome poking up.  I don't know what I'm trying to prove by that... I guess that a de facto or legal height limit based on retaining one building as the tallest doesn't necessarily help the skyline in the long run.

Yeah now that I think about it D.C. and Paris are not very good examples.  I guess what I was trying to say was that I believe everything should radiate down from Carew, with it being at 5th and Vine and at the center of the skyline.  That I think would have the most pleasing visual effect for the skyline.

What about a height limit made block-by-block? You could strategically align a skyline this way.

Now that we are back on track, here is an example of what the skyline would look like with Queen City Square phase II.

 

Credit goes to Ronnie Garrett for the rendering.

 

 

Here is video of the skyline on approach.

 

http://www.cincyimages.com/media/CincinnatiAerial.mov

FYI, there are no real "set" parameters for building heights in Cincinnati.  The Year 2000 Plan set out several zones and ideal heights to keep the skyline ramping up from the outside and peaking at Fountain Square (as viewed from NKY/Devou area).  The only other restriction I know of is how sunlight hits Fountain Square.  As you can see from the pic above, QCSII obviously puts a dent in the Year 2000 Plan.  I will try to find my copy and scan it in.

^Yes it is. The FAA said the millenium tower was too tall. I think that was 1200 feet.

I spoke with David Ottenjohn, who's overseeing the leasing of QCS, this afternoon.  He was terribly kind to take the time to speak with me, and he gave some new light.

 

- As of today, QCS Phase I is leased to 53%

- He was working on some potentials today that would draw it very close to capacity

- Western Southern/Eagle won't dig for Phase II until Phase I is completely filled

- He anticipates a Spring 2007 dig date, and completion in 2010 for Phase II.

- He said it's not a fountain square west, and that it will go up, the question is simply when

- David is of the opinion that had Duke been hired for FSW, it would have been built (he worked for them at the time)

- His best numbers show vacancy in downtown at just under 15%

- The design for Phase II, rumored to have changed, has not changed and likely will not change from the latest rendering.

 

Again, he was so gracious to spend time talking to me today, and was actually excited to hear that people in this town haven't forgotten about it.

Wow, it's great to hear they still anticipate it being built.  I was starting to get a little worried by the silence...

^Yes it is. The FAA said the millenium tower was too tall. I think that was 1200 feet.

 

I was only speaking to city-imposed building heights.

Mr. Ottenjohn needs to register on this board and give us all the updates as they roll in.

Only a year away before ground breaking. I wonder why it takes 3 years to build this? I'm thinking it will topped off in 2009 and the insides would be worked on..;)

Only a year away before ground breaking. I wonder why it takes 3 years to build this? I'm thinking it will topped off in 2009 and the insides would be worked on..

 

 

 

That's 6 month's for county government to bitch and complain about it for some stupid reason.

  Another 6 month's for city government to bitch and complain about county government bitching and complaining.

  And 2 years for actual construction.

 

  I know the two government's probably have nothing to do with QCS, but I thought I'd say it anyway. :evil:

^ I feel your pain.

Didn't the Empire state building take 1 year to complete? lol

I think the top of the Phase 2 building looks very 1980s.  Other than that, not bad, although I prefer the FSW design.

I think the top of the Phase 2 building looks very 1980s.  Other than that, not bad, although I prefer the FSW design.

 

This rendering gives a little better idea of the crown.  I liked it alot more after I saw this:

 

Here are some pages from the Cincinnati 2000 Plan c.1982 showing the suggested building heights and associated text......

 

 

Are those the suggested number of stories?

Are those the suggested number of stories?

 

 

Yes, I guess the legend got cut off.

 

 

thats an interesting diagram...too bad it doesnt mean crap.  i know i have asked this question before and i think i remember most people saying that it wasnt the case -- had there ever been a mention of western and southern moving into any future phase II space?  id say with the recent success of the polk building, they should vacate the collection of older buildings around lytle park (i realize not all of them posess the charm of the polk building) and convert them to residential and move into phase II.  that would create a very strong residential district in and around that area.  any time i walk through that part of downtown it just doesnt seems so much cleaner and calmer...something i think would make any further conversions in that area very marketable.  seems like win win to me

Anyway... back on topic.

WOW I missed a lot of news on this topic.  Can't wait for the complete occupancy of phase I so that we can get started on phase II.  One of the best views that no one has really covered will be from inside GABP.  QCS will look great towering behind the ballpark from within.

 

Here are a few shots showing what I mean:

 

 

 

 

just imagine.......

^Wow, that hadn't crossed my mind yet! I am imagining...and I like it!

I think the top of the Phase 2 building looks very 1980s.  Other than that, not bad, although I prefer the FSW design.

 

This rendering gives a little better idea of the crown.  I liked it alot more after I saw this:

 

 

I still think the top of it looks very Golden Girls Miami Beach 1985.  All that's needed is the pink flamingo.  Not a fan of all that glass.

As far as GABP goes, I think it goes beyond the view from inside the park. I think that the construction of the ball park directly influenced the decision to build at that site and at that height. Because of the new postcard view of Cincinnati looking into the park, the QCS site now has a prominence of place it wouldn't otherwise have. I'm sure that's a selling point to potential tenants.

 

Fingers crossed.

very true

"I still think the top of it looks very Golden Girls Miami Beach 1985."

 

You got a problem with the Golden Girls? :x

 

:wink:

"Not a fan of all that glass"

 

They should just clad it in some good ole Cincinnati Brick!  I think the glass is fantastic.

"Not a fan of all that glass"

 

They should just clad it in some good ole Cincinnati Brick!  I think the glass is fantastic.

 

I think so to. When it is finally built, I think people will view the crown differently. Until then, it is another one of those comment and reply things...

It is still going to look so sweeeeeet coming up I-75, even if it is something out of the Golden Girls. We need to catch up from a decade long drought of no skyscrapers at all!!

I know this may be a stretch but 111 Huntington Avenue in Boston looks a bit like the rendering of QCS. And whenever I go to Boston(about once a month or so) my friends (who do not pay much attention to skyscrapers and things like that) always comment that this their favorite skyscraper in Boston.  So, that may be a good sign for the design.  Here is a picture of 111 Huntington Avenue.

http://www.skyscraperpicture.com/boston25.jpg

apparently there was a bunch of interest for International Paper to move their corp HQ to be based in the new tower but City Council messed the thing up so they went to Memphis instead. Otherwise phase 1would have started by now

Phase I is done... Phase II is the skyscraper.

I took this pic a little while ago, but I dont believe I ever shared it with the rest of you:

 

Eagle Realty has said that they are currently focusing their efforts on fully leasing the 303 Broadway Tower (phase I).  They are also working on some pre-leasing negotiations with some large potential tenants.  They said that there has not been any interest from Western & Southern Financial in consolidating their offices into phase II.  Once pre-leasing has proven successful phase II will begin construction.

 

Hopefully by 'large tenants' they mean a new company headquarters might possibly be coming to Cincinnati.

Great!

 

Thanks Rando!

I would love for the city to lure a new company to Cincinnati, preferably from a southern city.

I'm a bit surprised that W-S isn't interested in moving offices to Phase II.  From what I've heard, they have a lot of employees spread out over a number of buildings in that area.  Consolidate in QCS, and look at all that space they would have to do some more residential a la Park Place. 

I'm a bit surprised that W-S isn't interested in moving offices to Phase II.  From what I've heard, they have a lot of employees spread out over a number of buildings in that area.  Consolidate in QCS, and look at all that space they would have to do some more residential a la Park Place. 

 

I completely agree...it would be great to see some of those midsized bldgs. cleared out to make room for some more residential development.

That general 4th/5th Street area east of Sycamore has some nice building (the Queen City Club, the University Club, etc.), but some other places over there don't look to be in the best of shape.  Seems like it would have some built in advantages for residential development, especially given its proximity to Lyle Park, W-S, P & G, etc. 

i think there is an echo in here

I don't know if anyone else saw this.  In the RFQ for The Banks submitted by The Cincinnati Banks Development Co.,LLC (joint venture between Eagle, Vandarcar, Et.Al) on Page 9 of the .PDF states:

 

"The second phase of the Queen City Square project is planned to be an 800,000 square foot, 37-story office tower on the site of the current Queen City Square Garage.  Design refinment is taking place in 2006, with construction scheduled to begin in 2007 subject to required pre-leasing."

 

So it looks like QCSII will happen, which is just awesome news!

 

If you want to see the RFQ:

http://www.enquirer.com/editions/2006/03/08/CincinnatiBanks.pdf