^^Joe C and his freaking buses...  I think you were generous in saying that a demo with buses wouldn't tell you "as much".  Seems like it wouldn't tell you anything at all...

I'm just a generous kinda guy!

^^Joe C and his freaking buses...  I think you were generous in saying that a demo with buses wouldn't tell you "as much".  Seems like it wouldn't tell you anything at all...

 

I think this very reasonable rail proposal is an opportunity to expose JoeC and his absurdity.  But it's up to individuals, like those of UO, to meet his arguments point-by-point and show how buses ARE NOT always an adequate substitute for rail simply because their cheap... If that were the case, New York would have an all bus transit system, right?  Then again, it wouldn't be New York... at least, as we know it.  Even Robert Moses, during the height and dawn of the auto age, was but only so successful.

i sent an email to the gov and got a letter back. they use nice stock paper-heh! here it is:

 

 

 

thank you for your recent letter regarding rail transportation in cleveland. i appreciate you taking the time to contact me about this matter.

 

i have forwarded you letter to the department of transportation and i have asked that your concern be reviewed and addressed promptly and thoroughly as possible.

 

thank you again for taking the time to write and please feel free to contact my office in the future.

 

sincerely,

ted strickland

governor

 

On the topic of Rocky River, looking at the "Old Detroit Road" district on Live Search Maps, I see a little building that runs along the N&S right-of-way.  Is that a rail depot?  I know that the long-long-dead Lake Shore Electric railway ran close to that area, but I didn't know the depots/stations still existed.  If so, it would be perfect for Rocky River's rail station if this project ever gets the green light.

 

By the way, here's a link to Live Search Maps image, with the building in question in the middle...

 

http://maps.live.com/default.aspx?v=2&cp=qxdjpz85dc52&style=o&lvl=1&tilt=-90&dir=0&alt=-1000&scene=6729145

 

EDIT: Nevermind.  I looked back on some previous posts in this thread, and it's already been mentioned.

That's right.  That is the old Rocky River "Nickel Plate" depot.  As I remember it, it is a small but serviceable building that the railroad still uses for maintanence of way storage.  Not much to look at now, but it could be fixed up to look good.

 

I wonder if KJP has any old photos of it back in the day???

Thanks for writing the Guv, mrnyc. I have a digital photo of the Rocky River station back in the day, and will look for it.

 

I found out today that there is a design charette on Friday (early afternoon) for a TOD on West 117th. To my knowledge, the only TOD discussed for this area is one in the city's Connecting Cleveland plan, and is generally in the area between Detroit and Clifton. It is tied with the proposed West Shore Transit Corridor.

 

Ironically, I cannot attend since I will be at the West Shore Corridor stakeholders meeting on Friday at NOACA. I don't have any other information on the design charette.

Found a track level photo of the Rocky River Depot from 1997...

County asks Congress for $1.5M

Officials want money for a study to look at possible commuter rail in NE Ohio

 

By Alex M. Parker

Morning Journal Writer

 

BTW, I can't begin to tell you how huge that is. Lorain County has agreed to be the sponsor of the West Shore Corridor alternatives analysis. Without them stepping forward, there would be no project. With a sponsor, this has become a legitimate project. Thank you Betty Blair, Jim Cordes and everyone else in Lorain County who has stepped up to the plate.

BTW, I can't begin to tell you how huge that is. Lorain County has agreed to be the sponsor of the West Shore Corridor alternatives analysis. Without them stepping forward, there would be no project. With a sponsor, this has become a legitimate project. Thank you Betty Blair, Jim Cordes and everyone else in Lorain County who has stepped up to the plate.

 

I've said it before, but it strikes me as incredible our Cuyahoga County and RTA (currently, at least) could be so intransigent and backwards on rail issues like this, while our satellite counties want it more, are moving forward.  Look at Akron Metro RTA with the cvsr Canton extension and Sherrod Brown's support for a multimodal, rail-based cvsr/Amtrak/bus terminal.  Lorain has been pushing for the Lorain commuter like while JoeC, Kucinich and, sometimes, various western Cuyahoga County burbs have been sticks in the mud (though Betty Blair's been a contra breath of fresh air)... At least Cleveland City council did the right thing with their resolution, and the other JoeC (Cimperman) has been a vocal supporter, among others.

 

Something's gotta give; Cleveland may finally catch up to the 21st century, transit-wise.

http://www.cleveland.com/sun/sunherald/index.ssf?/base/news-0/11727713033390.xml&coll=3

 

West Shore Sun

 

Rail plan gets a boost

Thursday, March 01, 2007

By Leana Donofrio

 

WESTLAKE - City officials said they are supporting the creation of a commuter rail that connects Lorain to Cleveland because of the boost it will give to all of northeast Ohio.

 

.......

MEETING SUMMARY

 

West Shore Corridor Stakeholders

February 23, 2007

Northeast Ohio Areawide Coordinating Agency

Board Meeting Room

 

 

 

NOTE: The next full meeting of the West Shore Corridor Stakeholders will be held at 1 p.m. Friday March 30 at Lakewood Women's Pavilion in Lakewood Park, off Lake Road at Belle Ave.

 

Special guest speaker: A very informative guest speaker at the March 30 stakeholders meeting will be Stephen Del Giudice, Transit Bureau Chief in Arlington County Virginia, and mayor (1985-1990) of Takoma Park, Maryland. He will discuss his region’s experiences with major transit projects and their impacts on urban sprawl, inner communities, access to jobs and station-area redevelopment.

 

_________________________

 

FEB. 23 MEETING HIGHLIGHTS

(Full Summary follows attendees list)

 

Lorain County officials said they have agreed to sponsor the West Shore Transit Corridor project and submit an application for $1.5 million in federal funding in each of the two years to do an alternatives analysis of transportation improvements. County officials are meeting with staff for U.S. Rep. Betty Sutton (D-13) and U.S. Marcy Kaptur (D-9) to secure the funding.

 

Resolutions in support of federal funding for the alternatives analysis have been passed thus far by Cleveland City Council, Lakewood City County, Westlake City Council, Lorain Port Authority board and Greater Cleveland Regional Transit Authority board. More communities and organizations are encouraged to pass the resolution. The draft resolution is available at:

 

http://members.cox.net/kjprendergast/SAMPLE_RESOLUTION.doc  (MS Word, 24kb)

 

Rep. Dennis Kucinich will support the West Shore Corridor planning work if there also is a consensus of support from Rocky River and Bay Village, where city councils are considering whether to pass resolutions urging Congress to approve federal funds for the alternatives analysis.

 

Non-federal funding in the amount of $300,000 in each of the next two years is also being sought. Meetings were held with Gov. Ted Strickland’s Northeast Ohio representative Anne Hill to identify state funding support and a new subcommittee was formed to identify local funding sources.

 

The possibility of a demonstration commuter rail and/or express bus service was discussed, and the new subcommittee will also take a look at that, as well as developing a scope of work for the alternatives analysis once funding is identified.

 

__________________________

 

ATTENDEES - At the Feb 23rd meeting, there were 35 attendees (listed alphabetically by last name):

 

Jim Armaline, Planner, Northeast Ohio Areawide Coordinating Agency

Andrew Bemer, Law Director, City of Rocky River

Betty Blair, Commissioner, Lorain County

Bob Brown, President, NOACA; Director, Cleveland City Planning

Joe Calabrese, General Manager, Greater Cleveland Regional Transit Authority (GCRTA)

 

Michael Challender, Executive Director, Lorain Growth Corporation

Mary Cierebiej, Deputy Project Manager, HNTB, Cleveland

Dennis Clough, Mayor, City of Westlake

Brian J. Cummins, Ward 15 Councilman, Cleveland City Council

Karen L. Davis, Special Projects Manager, Lorain County

 

Edward Favre, Lakewood mayor’s office and Lakewood Board of Education

Maribeth Feke, Director, Programming & Planning, GCRTA

Tom Ferguson, General Manager, Lorain County Transit

Sheri Fointino, Director of Development, Greater Cleveland Partnership

Marty Gelfand, Staff Counsel, Congressman Dennis Kucinich

 

Paul Gluck, Professional Engineer, CH2M Hill, Cleveland

David Hartman, Director of Business Development, RE Warner & Associates, Westlake

Anne Hill, Director, Northeast Ohio office, Governor Ted Strickland, Cleveland

Kevin Kelley, Ward 16, Cleveland City Councilman

Coletta Kubik, co-chair, Concerned Citizens of Vermilion

 

Dennis Lamont, Lorain Street Railway

Will McCracken, Lorain County National Historic Area Committee

John Motl, Planning & Programs, District 12, Ohio Department of Transportation

Stu Nicholson, Public Information Officer, Ohio Rail Development Commission

Rick Novak, Executive Director, Lorain Port Authority

 

Bob Parry, Director of Planning & Economic Development, City of Westlake

Ken Prendergast, Director of Research & Communications, All Aboard Ohio

Rocky River councilman attended, did not sign attendance sheet

Mark Schwinn, All Aboard Ohio, Berwin, Illinois

Nathan W. Torres, resident, Cleveland

 

Vince Urbin, Development Department, Lorain County

Ginny Vigrass, resident, Lakewood

Jerome Walcott, Associate Director, Commission on Catholic Community Action

Ceil Zander, Capt. William Young Bed & Breakfast, Vermilion

George Zeller, Center for Community Solutions and GCRTA Citizens Advisory Board

 

 

_________________________

 

FULL SUMMARY

 

Bob Brown, President of the Northeast Ohio Areawide Coordinating Agency and Cleveland City Planning Director, welcomed everyone to the fifth full meeting of the West Shore Corridor Stakeholders. He said that transit meets Cleveland’s goals and that the city is willing to support the West Shore Corridor (WSC) project. Further, he noted that cities need to maximize transit options and that rail options make a lot of sense.

 

Betty Blair, Lorain County Commissioner, said she and other Lorain County officials met with staff for U.S. Rep. Betty Sutton (D-13) and will meet with staff of U.S. Marcy Kaptur (D-9). She said Lorain County will sponsor the West Shore Corridor Transit Project and submit an application for federal funds for planning work.

 

Rick Novak, Executive Director, Lorain Port Authority, said the county is looking for $1.5 million in each of the next two federal fiscal years to do an alternatives analysis of transportation improvements in the WSC.

 

Ken Prendergast, Director of Research & Communications, All Aboard Ohio, said he and Commissioner Blair, Mayor Clough, Ed Favre, Mayor George, Councilman Kelley, Dennis Lamont, Will McCracken and Rick Novak met with Gov. Strickland’s Northeast Ohio liaison Anne Hill about a state funding share for the alternatives analysis and inquired about $50 million in state development funds for a demonstration/introductory commuter rail/express bus service in the WSC. He added that resolutions in support of federal funding for the alternatives analysis have been passed by Cleveland City Council, Lakewood City County, Westlake City Council, Lorain Port Authority board, Greater Cleveland Regional Transit Authority board. Others are being asked to pass the resolution. He said it is not a commuter rail resolution but a study resolution.

 

Dennis Clough, Westlake mayor, said he supports council’s resolution and talked to Rep. Dennis Kucinich who said as long as West Shore communities support the WSC project, he’ll support it.

 

Marty Gelfand, Chief Counsel to Rep. Kucinich, discussed the agreement with freight railroad Norfolk Southern on the limiting of train traffic to an average of 14 through trains per day. He said the region ended up with a good agreement to which Bay Village, Lakewood and Rocky River were signatories. He hadn’t yet seen the Lakewood resolution in support of WSC. He added that Kucinich will support the request for funds if there is a consensus of support from mayors, law directors and councilmembers in Rocky River and Bay Village, where city councils are also considering whether to pass resolutions urging Congress to approve federal funds for the alternatives analysis.

 

Andrew Bemer, Rocky River Law Director, said council has the WSC resolution on second reading.

 

Ed Favre, Lakewood Mayor George’s office, said Lakewood supports the WSC and city council passed the resolution. He also has spoken with NS Vice President Bill Harris and said railroad companies might be interested in managing a commuter train service. Lakewood Community Progress Inc. is engaged in a process for making downtown Lakewood more pedestrian oriented and sees commuter rail as a piece of that.

 

Maribeth Feke, Director, Programming & Planning, GCRTA, said NOACA has planning funds available through its Transportation for Livable Communities Initiative (TLCI) program for station-area development. GCRTA is using TLCI funds for station-area planning at its rapid transit stations.

 

Brown said a station-area design/planning activities for West 117th at the Lakewood-Cleveland border were underway at a meeting being held today (Feb. 23).

 

Howard Maier, Executive Director of NOACA, confirmed the appropriateness of TLCI for station-area redevelopment planning and encouraged Lakewood and other communities to submit applications.

 

Prendergast said non-federal contributions of $300,000 in each of the next two years to the alternatives analysis are needed considering Lorain County’s tight financial situation. A request for state funding was made through Strickland’s representative Hill, but local shares would help leverage state and federal funding.

 

Novak said he will ask the Lorain Port Authority’s board for a local share.

 

Maier said NOACA has some reserve funds.

 

Joe Calabrese, General Manager of GCRTA, said the level of benefit to local entities should be a factor in their contributions.

 

Brian Cummins, Cleveland Ward 15 Councilman, said there should be a subcommittee of stakeholders to develop a strategy for local contributions. He was willing to co-chair a subcommittee.

 

Novak also agreed to co-chair the subcommittee.

 

Feke, McCracken and possibly retiring RTA Planning Team Leader Rich Enty also will serve on the subcommittee. A meeting of the subcommittee prior to the next full stakeholders committee was discussed.

 

Prendergast said a demonstration commuter rail and/or express bus service should be considered for a piece of the alternatives analysis to determine potential ridership and community impacts. A commuter rail demonstration might be done for up to $50 million over two years, with a significant portion of the funding going for Quiet Zones. Second-hand train equipment could be used to reduce costs.

 

Dennis Lamont of Lorain Street Railway said Cuyahoga Valley Scenic Railroad self-propelled rail diesel cars should be considered and NS could operate it.

 

Favre said a commuter rail demonstration would need to be set up by a new entity since there is nothing like it in Ohio.

 

Stu Nicholson, Public Information Officer at the Ohio Rail Development Commission, said a steering committee set up for doing the due diligence for a 2-C (Cleveland-Columbus) interim rail passenger service would be a good model for a demonstration WSC service.

 

Feke said state law gives transit agencies a monopoly in the counties in which they are based. Cooperative agreements may need a vote of the counties.

 

There was general discussion that the same subcommittee seeking to identify local shares for the alternatives analysis could also develop a scope of work for the alternatives analysis and begin looking at oversight structure(s) for a demonstration commuter rail and/or express bus service.

 

Meeting was concluded at roughly 2:30 p.m.

Next meeting

West Shore Corridor Stakeholders

1:00-2:30 p.m. Friday, March 30

Lakewood Womens Pavilion

Lakewood Park, of Lake Road at Belle Avenue

 

 

Lakewood Mayor Tom George and All Aboard Ohio invite you to attend a special meeting of the West Shore Corridor Stakeholders. AAO is grateful to Mayor George for hosting this meeting.

 

Special guest speaker: A very informative guest speaker will be Stephen Del Giudice, Transit Bureau Chief in Arlington County Virginia, and former mayor (1985-1990) of Takoma Park, Maryland.

 

Subject: Major transit investments and their impacts on urban sprawl, inner communities, access to jobs and station-area redevelopment. Mr. Del Giudice's experience in municipal government, regional transportation planning and development will provide insights on issues and action steps they have already worked on and which Northeast Ohio is now facing.

 

Background: Arlington County is comprised primarily older communities across the Potomac River from Washington D.C. By 1980, many areas in the county suffered from decayed commercial corridors in their oldest communities. Arlington County has seen significant redevelopment along major transit lines, including two commuter rail services added in the 1990s into exurban Virginia. Meanwhile Takoma Park is an inner-ring suburb on a long-established commuter rail route into rural Maryland.

 

Detail: Since Arlington County developed rail services and integrated Transit-Oriented Development, it has accomplished a great deal, while still protecting its single family neighborhoods. Consider:

 

• Since 1980's, 75 percent of Arlington's 30 million square feet of new development is around transit stops.

• 33 percent of tax base is located in 7 percent of land in TOD's.

• Core Transit Corridor is now one of nation's 5 densest downtowns.

• Vacancy rates half those of exurban Tyson's Corner, Virginia.

• Lowest tax rate in DC metro area.

 

Additional agenda items: update on the federal funding request by Lorain County, follow-up by subcommittee on identifying non-federal funding shares for alternatives analysis, and possibly a presentation by a Michigan firm which is supplying second-hand rail cars from Chicago for new commuter rail services in Southeast Michigan.

 

this is great news for sure.....however, i cant help but think why yet another study? one was done by noaca years ago. whats wrong with that one? they even had a demo ride. here is some old info about that:

 

http://www.sunnews.com/news/1998/0827/raillines.htm

 

 

A lot changes in almost ten years.... condition of the rail line, rail traffic on the line.... and the "biggie"..... politics. The study won't be a huge thing to get done, since it  will likely update information gathered in the NOACA corridor study.

 

A bigger challenge is securing the funding for an alternatives analysis, and then into some form of an Environmental Impact Study. Hopefully a "demo" service can be arranged, but that too is not cheap and it must be done with a service level that makes sense.  Anything that could be construed as faling short or failing is what needs to be avoided.  Critics of rail and transit, as KJP and others can verify, are like vultures: flying overhead in silence and then pouncing when they sense blood.

 

This is a terrific project and KJP has done a great job both in gaining important political support and all but eliminating the perceived opposition to the plan.

 

 

Critics of rail and transit, as KJP and others can verify, are like vultures: flying overhead in silence and then pouncing when they sense blood.

 

Yes, and what's frustrating is that the public will go years with tantalizing plans by hardworking, dedicated planners until just before that final lap: spending.  And in areas like Cleveland that are indifferent, even anti-rail and transit, overall, there's never that plebiscite needed to fend off the rail killers-- like RTA's Calabrese (and how ironic/pathetic is that?).  The examples are so numerous, but one recent example is Cincinnati's promising LRT plan up the I-71 corridor and south thru northern KY to Cincy's internat'l airport.

 

I sure hope we learned from these debacles and hedge our bets -- it certainly seems KJP among others with All Aboard Ohio have studied history enough to caefully line up the critical political support needed for, if you would, the preemptive strike needed to defang, even isolate, the critics (setting them up for public ridicule and political suicide if they fight this) thus preventing another parallel debacle from derailing this most sensible rail project... hold your breath, cause we're nearing crunch time.

this is great news for sure.....however, i cant help but think why yet another study? one was done by noaca years ago. whats wrong with that one? they even had a demo ride. here is some old info about that:

 

There is a big difference between a study and a plan. A study is a test with little or no potential end product other than the study document. What we're trying to get funding for is a plan, with the end product being a transit service and the economic development surrounding transit nodes along the corridor.

 

We're also trying to make it a little easier on ourselves by avoiding federal funding, which is scarce and involves a long, complicated process. The only federal funds that will likely be considered is if Congress puts money into an unfunded program called "Small Starts" -- new transit routes with low start-up costs.

Reminder:

 

Next meeting

West Shore Corridor Stakeholders

1:00-2:30 p.m. Friday, March 30

Lakewood Womens Pavilion

Lakewood Park, of Lake Road at Belle Avenue

 

 

Lakewood Mayor Tom George and All Aboard Ohio invite you to attend a special meeting of the West Shore Corridor Stakeholders. AAO is grateful to Mayor George for hosting this meeting.

 

Special guest speaker: A very informative guest speaker will be Stephen Del Giudice, Transit Bureau Chief in Arlington County Virginia, and former mayor (1985-1990) of Takoma Park, Maryland.

 

For full meeting details...

http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php?topic=6001.msg170555#msg170555

this is great news for sure.....however, i cant help but think why yet another study? one was done by noaca years ago. whats wrong with that one? they even had a demo ride. here is some old info about that:

 

There is a big difference between a study and a plan. A study is a test with little or no potential end product other than the study document. What we're trying to get funding for is a plan, with the end product being a transit service and the economic development surrounding transit nodes along the corridor.

 

 

 

makes sense to me, but watch out -- that needs to be clarified to the media because the morning journal article above called it a study.

 

03/24/2007

Commuter rail proposal needs strong support of congressional delegation

Lorain Morning Journal

 

 

This area's congressional delegation needs to throw its full support behind a request for federal funding of a $3 million study of proposed commuter rail service between Cleveland and Lorain and westward to Vermilion and Sandusky.

 

.......

 

http://www.zwire.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=18122261&BRD=1699&PAG=461&dept_id=46368&rfi=6

As Lorain County grows, with new residents moving in from Cuyahoga County, the need for commuter rail service can only keep growing.

 

:whip:

 

Question: how come, with all the freeway projects undertaken worth billions, like the Innerbelt rebuild, how come there's been no talk about a grade separation program for NS tracks through Lakewood?  I mean, with all the positive talk of commuter rail against the constant negativity of noise and danger with all the grade crossings throughout Lakewood, isn't this a program that's more than long past due?

For the same reason why the Inner Belt project won't happen at the cost quoted -- lack of funding. And the last time the discussion of grade-separating NS through Lakewood was discussed (in the early 1990s) there seemed to be a general consensus that it would do more harm than good (ie: creating a wall that would separate the city). Enhanced grade-crossing safety (full-closure gates, education programs etc), establishing a Quiet Zone and keeping freight traffic to a minimum will achieve many of the same benefits at far less cost.

For the same reason why the Inner Belt project won't happen at the cost quoted -- lack of funding. And the last time the discussion of grade-separating NS through Lakewood was discussed (in the early 1990s) there seemed to be a general consensus that it would do more harm than good (ie: creating a wall that would separate the city). Enhanced grade-crossing safety (full-closure gates, education programs etc), establishing a Quiet Zone and keeping freight traffic to a minimum will achieve many of the same benefits at far less cost.

 

OK.  Still seems odd that Cuy county's most densly populated area also (seemingly) the highest frequency at-grade RR crossings.   Also, you mention a (Chinese) "wall", why couldn't the tracks be depressed into a narrow cut with frontage and sound barriers at the surface?  This would be much narrower than either a freeway ditch or the Rapid + NS cut further to the east - I'm of course, presuming that a 2-track ROW would do the trick and that any transit proposed, would be over these 2 tracks, so there'd be no more need for additional space.  Such could make the tracks and trains almost undetectable to all but the keenest eye and ear.

It could, but I don't know where the water table is this close to the lake. Right now, I'd be happy with just $50 million from the state to start up a modest, introductory-type service. That $50 million would be triple the state's existing funding level for transit! Shows how backwards this state really is.

^agreed.

The Lorain Morning Journal is working on a pretty significant feature article on the West Shore Corridor project (apparently focusing on the commuter rail aspect of it). I understand the article will run in Sunday's paper. We'll see.

Reminder:

 

Next meeting

West Shore Corridor Stakeholders

1:00-2:30 p.m. Friday, March 30

Lakewood Womens Pavilion

Lakewood Park, of Lake Road at Belle Avenue

 

 

Lakewood Mayor Tom George and All Aboard Ohio invite you to attend a special meeting of the West Shore Corridor Stakeholders. AAO is grateful to Mayor George for hosting this meeting.

 

Special guest speaker: A very informative guest speaker will be Stephen Del Giudice, Transit Bureau Chief in Arlington County Virginia, and former mayor (1985-1990) of Takoma Park, Maryland.

 

For full meeting details...

http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php?topic=6001.msg170555#msg170555

 

How did this meeting go KJP?  Do you have minutes to post?

The meeting went well. We had a terrific speaker who discussed the impacts of transit-oriented development on Arlington, Virginia, but I haven't typed up the meeting minutes yet. Most of the meeting was taken up by the speaker. I was hoping to take his 100+ mb presentation and make it into a more reasonably sized PDF. But even the PDF was about 20 mb. So I can't e-mail it or host it for people to download. What I might do is break the PDF up into four parts so I can e-mail it someone so they can host it, but I just thought about that!

KJP -

Rifled through mom's copy of the Morning Journal today at Easter dinner, and didn't see any article on the proposed rail corridor.  Sorry.

 

Apparently the snowy Easter weather bumped this story to Monday:

 

Commuter rail to Cleveland gains support

MEGAN KING, Morning Journal Writer

04/09/2007

 

...

Thanks for posting it. I saw the front page of the LMJ at the office this morning. That map on the front sure looks familiar!

Erie County Commissioner Bill Monaghan said a commuter rail would be a significant boost to Erie County's economy. He said it would promote movement of people not only between Erie County and Cleveland, but also Erie County and Lorain County.

 

''It's kind of like Jet Express when it drops off 200 passengers at Kelleys Island or Put-in-Bay,'' Monaghan said. ''That's what I could see with a big rail line coming into Sandusky. You'd drop off 200 or 300 shoppers or 200 or 300 people who want to go to our water parks or one of our great restaurants.''

 

Especially Cedar Point.  I wonder if Cedar Fair would be interested in helping fund an extension to Sandusky.  I could see lots of people flying into Hopkins, taking the Rapid to their hotel downtown, then the commuter rail line west to downtown Sandusky where a feeder bus line would pick them up and take them to Cedar Point.  Park attendance could get a big boost from something like that, which would naturally be the selling point to CF, L.P.

Given that people actually once road the train to Cedar Point in the early 1900's, there is at least some historical precedent for approaching Cedar Fair about getting behind this project.  It potentially gives them a great marketing tool: "No need to fight traffic or find a parking place.... ride the rails to ride our rails!"

 

Theoretically, they could do such marketing right now, since Amtrak currently stops at Sandusky.  But more frequent rail service would give them far greater incentive to get involved.

I could see lots of people flying into Hopkins, taking the Rapid to their hotel downtown, then the commuter rail line west to downtown Sandusky where a feeder bus line would pick them up and take them to Cedar Point.

 

Or, for the able-bodied, they could take their bicycles on the train and ride to Cedar Point. Or, a bicycle rental place could be located at the train station.

"Kucinich's offices in Washington, D.C. and Lakewood could not be reached for comment Friday."

 

hmmph.

 

 

 

 

Yeah, and what if they plastered their marketing materials all over the trains? This would be a cool mixture of tourism and transportation!

Or, for the able-bodied, they could take their bicycles on the train and ride to Cedar Point. Or, a bicycle rental place could be located at the train station.

 

Now that's an idea.  An aside, though (and please correct me if I'm wrong,)  but if memory serves, I think that the current main access road to Cedar Point is rather narrow and bike-unfriendly.  There might need to be some widening or the addition of a specific bike lane for that to be really feasible.

The good news is that Sandusky has an excellent station facility.

Given that people actually once road the train to Cedar Point in the early 1900's, there is at least some historical precedent for approaching Cedar Fair about getting behind this project.  It potentially gives them a great marketing tool: "No need to fight traffic or find a parking place.... ride the rails to ride our rails!"

 

Theoretically, they could do such marketing right now, since Amtrak currently stops at Sandusky.  But more frequent rail service would give them far greater incentive to get involved.

 

The last I heard, Cedar Point wasn't interested in a train because they felt that a family's drive to Cedar Point was part of the Cedar Point experience.  This was several  years ago, however.

 

sweet.

^I agree, that thing is awesome! How could you NOT want to do that? Man, you watch these movies where people romanticize the past where people did use trains, but hardly anywhere can you actually "enjoy" what anywhere else on the planet is ubiquitous.

Given what families now have to spend on gasoline just to get to Cedar Point, I would say they need to rethink their philosphy about the drive being part of the Cedar Point experience.

The last I heard, Cedar Point wasn't interested in a train because they felt that a family's drive to Cedar Point was part of the Cedar Point experience.  This was several  years ago, however.

 

I would have thought that getting the family on the train for a day trip to the Point would be an even more unique experience.  What kid doesn't love the train?  Plus, they would be less likely to bring all their junk in umteen picnic baskets and more likely to shop at the concession stands for their lunch.

There are a number of articles like this one from 2005 (below), some which said Cedar Point had another down year in 2006....

 

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/08/23/eveningnews/main792336.shtml

 

Park Offsets High Gas Prices

 

SANDUSKY, Ohio, Aug. 23, 2005

 

(CBS) Well they knew something was up here at the Cedar Point Amusement Park on the shores of Lake Erie. Most of the visitors drive here from four or five hours away.

 

With gas prices way up and attendance 4 percent down, the people who run the park did something they've never done before: cut the price of admission, CBS News Correspondent Jim Axelrod reports.

 

......

What Cedar Fair and others seem to forget is that many (if not most) amusement parks... Cedar Point included.... got their start due to presence of passenger rail and Ohio's extensive interurban streetcar network.  To be sure, the advent of the automobile and better roads changed the demographic of their audience.  But oh how we have come full circle: the mode of transportation that allowed the amusement park business to grow so fast and so big is now at least one reason why attendence (and revenues) are down.

 

The difference is there is little or no existing rail service to enable park goers to get there by any other means than the motor vehicle. Again, it would seem to be in Cedar Fair's best interest to get behind a revival of rail service.  And while we're at it, let's extend that interest out to every business in the Sandusky area that depends on Cedar Point's attendence and financial well-being.... hotels, restaurants, retail stores, outlet malls, etc.

Unfortunately, a large concentration of Sandusky's hotels, resorts and restaurants aren't near the historic train station, now used by Amtrak and the Sandusky Transit System (see map below). Yet, the rail line passes within a few hundred feet of some hotels etc. and a quarter-mile from others on the east side of the city (the rest are by the Ohio Turnpike's exit to US250). A station location on that side of town is also closer to the causeway. Of course, with commuter rail (as opposed to intercity rail), you could have two stations in Sandusky and have STS link them to Cedar Point's front gate....

 

solution for Cedar Point.  Shuttles, between the train station and the hotels.  Heck, CP could even run shuttles between the train station and the park, with the perk of skipping the lines.  Just add a .50 fee to an advance ticket purchase, but make $5 to buy a ticket on the shuttle.

solution for Cedar Point.  Shuttles, between the train station and the hotels.  Heck, CP could even run shuttles between the train station and the park, with the perk of skipping the lines.  Just add a .50 fee to an advance ticket purchase, but make $5 to buy a ticket on the shuttle.

 

Is there an echo in here?  :wink:

 

Seriously, though, I like the idea of pricing to encourage rail travel.  They could also sell the 50-cent tickets in hotels to people staying there, which would encourage more use of the bus by tourists and free up parking space at Cedar Point.