Here's a larger rendering of the project - you can see it in the lobby of the Penton Media Building:

 

Why is the Penton Media building displaying this? Is the archiect located there?  How long has it been in the building?

Yep, Osborn is the architect and their offices are in the building.

Very interesting.  I am assuming that the boutique hotel will probably be in the tower portion and the parking/bus garage/field house will be in the other portion.

I really like the design, but I'm confused about the mixture of uses and where they'll go.  Also, I'm surprised at how slim the tower is!

 

Also, Guv, why is the book store not planned for a prime Euclid Ave location?  Or will the UC reconstruction be so significant that this will be the effect?

cleveland needs more thin towers that provide windows and views from every room. 

 

i understand rehabbing warehouses where this is not possible, but in new construction, i think there is little excuse not to build thin and provide light and views. 

 

for example, the pinnacle is very nice inside, but for close to 400k, i'd expect my second bedroom to have a window with a view of something - especially in cleveland. 

regarding the UC reconstruction, as I have come to understand it, the current building will be completely demolished and in its place will rise a MUCH more functional building that reaches out to Euclid and as I understand it, includes a much larger bookstore a with street level access.  Demolition of the existing building was chosen, over the much less expensive renovation, because even a major renovation could not fix the inward focus of the existing structure.  I think this represents a very postitive step for CSU.

Also,  apparently all new buildings will employ similar architecture to the soon to be completed Rec center, though not sure which characteristics will be common in all new construction.

 

In transit center news, here is a blurb from the recent CSU Board of Trustees Meeting

"Authorized officers of the University to pursue the acquisition of property located at 2005 and 2007 Prospect Avenue by purchasing the property at an aggregate price of $1,150,000, or by eminent domain, with all expenses associated with the eminent domain acquisition subject only to the approval of the University upon presentation of appropriate receipts or invoices."

 

map it for even more fun!

Good job, Guv!

2005 and 2007 Prospect Avenue...

 

When I Google mapped those, it seems they're both attached to an existing building right across from the Wolstein Center...?

cleveland needs more thin towers that provide windows and views from every room. 

 

i understand rehabbing warehouses where this is not possible, but in new construction, i think there is little excuse not to build thin and provide light and views. 

 

for example, the pinnacle is very nice inside, but for close to 400k, i'd expect my second bedroom to have a window with a view of something - especially in cleveland. 

 

I don't agree.  in a building like that, similar to NYC, its about convienience and the neighborhood.  You've got to maximize the number of units, which mean a view is secondary. 

 

looking at the pinnacle, most corner units with a second bedroom do have a view.  Most of our newer developments have great views.

I dont know how the slenderness of that building works with the massive size of the auditorium.

MTS, I agree with you to some extent when it comes to the tight housing market in NYC, but I don't think people in Cleveland, land of plentiful houses and smaller apartment buildings, choose to live in highrises just because of the convenience and neighborhood.  And I think view matters to many people even in NYC.

 

For what it's worth, I believe the NYC building code requires all bedrooms to have windows- a requirement that many housing advocates have argued unnecessarily increases the cost of new housing.  Maybe based on this experience I too was pretty surprised to see bedrooms without windows in Pinnacle and I think Stonebridge too.

Cleveland's building code requires bedrooms to have windows as well, so perhaps what you saw were "studies" or "bonus rooms".

here is a photo of one of the 400k units in pinnacle from their website.  there are 5 of these on each floor. 

 

I just read a report that bids for Construction Manager are due by Feb 17, 2006.  There will be a five level parking structure with ths and capabilities of 57,000 square feet of field house added on at a later date. 

Guv, I too found that the addresses you mentioned are on the north side of Prospect, across from the Wolstein Center.  That was one of the original sites considered for the transit center and would have required demolition of a building (or two) on Euclid, but in my understanding, this option was ruled inferior to the block just east of the Wolstein Center.  What does the proposed acquisition of these structures have to do with the ESTC?

 

Also, I'm very happy to hear that CSU will be rebuilding its front door in its entireity!  The University Center may be beautiful once you're inside, but it's one of the most forboding buildings on campus.  I look forward to the day when they tear that mother down!

Since parking revenue is paying for most of these projects, the parking master plan will likely shed some light on project dats as well as seemingly incongruent land purchases.  The attached image seems to clear up the reason for the recent land acquisition (north of wolstein).  Have a look at the entire plan http://www.csuohio.edu/campusmasterplan/pmp.pdf

 

So, they're buying the Prospect Ave properties to use as parking in the more short-term, while several other lots are off-line and garages are under construction?  I guess that maps just a little confusing...

I do see Dan's point on this issue....in cities with truly efficient transit (Chicago, NYC, DC, Portland) less parking is demanded for new developments than what you see in truly auto-oriented cities (midwest, south).  Cleveland should start the trend towards more transit oriented uses than simply falling back on more parking.  Yes parking is a necessary evil, but we should try to limit it wherever possible.

 

If CSU wants to be the 'urban campus' its advertising itself as, then they need to quit catering to commuters.  This same thing sometimes aggrevates me at the University of Cincinnati (UC).  It is a great 'urban campus' but sometimes it seems as though the university puts the needs of the commuter before those who live their.

 

If enough people live on campus (CSU, UC, or whatever) then the abundance of parking will not be necessary!!!

^ I see your point and I agree with it however, there are requirements on parking despite what the University wants.  Also, colleges are not just learning institutions, they function as places for events (highschool stuff, state examinations, concerts at Wolstien etc).  When you tear out a parking lot to put in a building for people to go to school or whatever it may be, the parking needs to be replaced somewhere and more added to accomodate the new structure based on the code.  The code fluctuates depending on the intent or zoning of the building. 

CSU is an urban campus because it exsists in downtown cleveland, thats the only reason. UC positionaly would be in the same place Case is in cleveland. CSU doesn't have the design or layout of a "traditional campus life" that could be found in UC or Case. So CSU is urban, because it dosent have a "traditional campus". There is 1 dorm on campus, and it houses basicaly a few people from out of the area/state and the athletes. The on campus resident population is a joke really. Most of the people that go to school there are commuters, its the way its been since its built. You really can't compare it to the urban campus of UC.

Cleveland State occupies a different role in the region.  It is a very popular place for those who work doing the day.  While I think that it can and will increase its on campus residential base, it will always have a large population who work full time and go home to their families at night. 

I understand that CSU is mainly a commuter school (as is UC).  However UC is trying to change itself and rebrand its image as the 'Premier Urban Research University'  Those in higher positions are trying to get more students to live on campus and grow the overall student enrollment.  These goals have sparked the revitalization of the Uptown area in Cincy.

 

I would think that CSU could do the same in Cleveland.  I dont think many people would feel that more people living in the city is a bad thing.  This could be Cleveland's chance to breathe new life in that part of the city through a steady population of students.  These students often have incomes that they are looking to simply spend!!!  This is another key element.....in and around UC there has been the addition of new businesses, restaurants, housing options, offices, and entertainment.

 

Why not the same for Cleveland?

Weird how this thread is answering the question I posed on the other active CSU thread...

^Which thread would that be?  You should go ahead and post these comments into the other thread then.

 

Now back to the topic....I love transit and it sounds like a novel idea, however I am unsure about the slender tower that fronts the site.  It says that it might be a hotel of sorts....how about more housing/dorms?

I concur that cleveland state university could become a tool of spinoff development and a more traditional campus, but that is still quite a ways off. CSU has only begun to become something different now. UC and CSU its almost apples and oranges.

 

For comparisions im just going to do quick look on google earth to look at. Im not trying to be argumentitive in this post, merely trying to illustrate the context in which these universities exsist.

 

Phsyically CSU is in downtown. If you were to put CSU in Cincinnati, it would be located somewhere near West 12th. Conversely UC would be somewhere out by university circle if it were in cleveland. Becuase of their particular locations there are surrounding neighborhood differences.

 

UC has a tradtion of on campus student housing, and providing the tradtional college "campus life" CSU does and has not since its creation aimed to be anything like the tradtional college "campus life". What could be described as the opposite of tradtional college "campus life" would be a commuter school. I gues it can be said all these years CSU in a sense has been acting like a regional community college. It has been quite the relevation within the last couple of years for CSU to come out with their master plan to and having the vision to come up with a more tradtional looking and feeling campus.

 

CSU is phsically smaller than UC. CSU is maybe 1/3 to 1/2 the size of of the western half of UC. CSU has built "more dense" than UC, making I guess it more urban. UC is also surrounded by residential areas, whereas CSU is surrounded by light industry and office buildings, making it also I gues more urban

^ aw shoot late post.

 

I like transit, I don't really like how narrow it they made the tower either. CSU wants to become a more urban campus and is actively embracing the ECP and the areas surrounding camps, while making the campus cater to people seeking tradtional campus life (Which they don't have), while still provding for the needs of current students (non-tradional campus life). This particular structure try to address all these points.

Am I the only one who realizes that half the people in this thread discussing 'UC' are discussing CSU's UC (University Center) and the other half are discussing UC as in The University Of Columbus ??? Two different places, two different things!!!

 

As for justifying this new garage - it's across the street from the Wolstein Center. A first parking garage for the "Convo Center" is not a bad thing! It's going to take A LOT of the business from the old fashioned pocket lots located up and down Prospect and E. 14. I was doing some work with property owners down there and they displayed a bit of anger since their small 20-30 spot lots will most likely take a turn for the worse (which is a good thing) and will open up even more land for development (that was previously unavailable) - that's all in addition to what others were saying about CSU now having more land to develop. Both CSU and the Quadrangle win in this situation! I couldn't be more satisfied with this project.

The University of Columbus :wave:

 

 

What the hell is the University of Columbus and how did they get involved in this conversation?

Am I the only one who realizes that half the people in this thread discussing 'UC' are discussing CSU's UC (University Center) and the other half are discussing UC as in The University Of Columbus ??? Two different places, two different things!!!

 

As for justifying this new garage - it's across the street from the Wolstein Center. A first parking garage for the "Convo Center" is not a bad thing! It's going to take A LOT of the business from the old fashioned pocket lots located up and down Prospect and E. 14. I was doing some work with property owners down there and they displayed a bit of anger since their small 20-30 spot lots will most likely take a turn for the worse (which is a good thing) and will open up even more land for development (that was previously unavailable) - that's all in addition to what others were saying about CSU now having more land to develop. Both CSU and the Quadrangle win in this situation! I couldn't be more satisfied with this project.

 

Just to correct you UC is THE University of Cincinnati!!!!  And yes earlier on in this topic the UC people were talking about was University Center...now the discussion has changed slighty and the discussion now includes THE University of Cincinnati.

You guys are killing me....

UC, you see, is UC

UC, you see, is UC

 

truth.

Does every one realize that Cleveland State university is about to expand its student housing stock. there is a master plan to buold new dorms similar to those just completed at Case Western. along with that the tower on the eastern edge of campus has just been redone and will open soon. they will have so much more student housing they have now in the upcoming years. they are also looking to build a new school of education and a diving center and a new university center. they have plans on thier website, so people will be using transit alot more, on top of the transition of old buildong to lofts along Euclid Avenue. The fact of the matter is that the car is King in america period, face it fokes, but we all could us the transit more often, maybe to work and back and use our cars during the weekend. I have been a user of public transit for most of my life and believe me, i dont blame any one who does not want to use it. the car provides so much more convinience to its users. when you get in your car, your off work, when you use the bus, when its 20 degrees out side. You have to wait for a bus, and dont miss it, thats 15-30 minutes in the cold. and then you get on a crowded bus with GOD KNOWS WHO! then ride any where from 15-30 minutes to you destination. one dya when the ride is berable its ok, but when the crazies come out, oh my god help me and have mercy on my soul. If any one uses public transportation they know what im talking about, especially the inner city bus routes. i use the 326 every day and You just dont know what your gonna get some times. but any way. Donwtown is in transition and I believe we will all be pleaseed in the end. until then lets cross our fingers and hope for the best.

UC stands for Union Centre.

Kevmr25,

 

For some detailed discussion on CSU projects, check out this thread:  http://www.urbanohio.com/forum2/index.php?topic=2289.0

"The fact of the matter is that the car is King in america period, face it fokes, but we all could us the transit more often,"

 

Maybe we could take a remedial English class or two while we're at it.

 

"the car provides so much more convinience to its users."

 

It also provides pollution, danger to pedestrians, congestion, etc. along with expenses (fuel, maintenance, insurance).

 

"You have to wait for a bus, and dont miss it, thats 15-30 minutes in the cold."

 

Go to www.riderta.com - find your bus route and schedule. It's amazing, you can actually find out when your bus should arrive, instead of waiting out in the frigid cold.

 

"i use the 326 every day"

 

My condolences.

 

"you get on a crowded bus with GOD KNOWS WHO!"

 

Up yours. I'm sorry but who are you to judge? Do you have any idea how ignorant that remark is?

Oooh, 326...I might be on that bus!  And I'm liable to pee on you or steal your wallet at any given moment.  Practice vigilance!

 

But really... how about that East Side Transit Center?

Does every one realize that Cleveland State university is about to expand its student housing stock. there is a master plan to buold new dorms similar to those just completed at Case Western. along with that the tower on the eastern edge of campus has just been redone and will open soon. they will have so much more student housing they have now in the upcoming years. they are also looking to build a new school of education and a diving center and a new university center. they have plans on thier website, so people will be using transit alot more, on top of the transition of old buildong to lofts along Euclid Avenue. The fact of the matter is that the car is King in america period, face it fokes, but we all could us the transit more often, maybe to work and back and use our cars during the weekend. I have been a user of public transit for most of my life and believe me, i dont blame any one who does not want to use it. the car provides so much more convinience to its users. when you get in your car, your off work, when you use the bus, when its 20 degrees out side. You have to wait for a bus, and dont miss it, thats 15-30 minutes in the cold. and then you get on a crowded bus with GOD KNOWS WHO! then ride any where from 15-30 minutes to you destination. one dya when the ride is berable its ok, but when the crazies come out, oh my god help me and have mercy on my soul. If any one uses public transportation they know what im talking about, especially the inner city bus routes. i use the 326 every day and You just dont know what your gonna get some times. but any way. Donwtown is in transition and I believe we will all be pleaseed in the end. until then lets cross our fingers and hope for the best.

 

WTF?  YOU MIGHT BE THE REASON PEOPLE DO DRIVE!  GOD ONLY KNOWS WHO YOU ARE AND WHY YOU FEEL THE NEED TO JUDGE OTHERS!  THANK GOD I RIDE THE RAPID AND NOT THE 326 WITH YOU AND THOSE THAT THINK LIKE YOU!  :mrgreen:

In all fairness now, are you guys saying that there aren't some real nutjobs riding the bus?

In all fairness, there are plenty of real nutjobs driving cars - I don't feel terribly safe around them.

 

Now don't get me wrong, I've taken a few buses that haven't exactly been filled with the upper eschelons of society. I have never once felt threatened - other than my olefactory lobes, and it's not like I just blend right in on say, the 6 or the 326. If *I* don't feel threatened on those bus lines, c'mon - you've met me - I hardly project that intimidating street cred.

 

I also had the foresight to do a little homework about my neighborhood before I moved there - I knew that some bus lines have a less than stellar rep, so I moved close to one that's known to be decent. Of the people I see everyday on the 55, I'd say 75% are office professionals, 15% are blue-collar, 10% are students, 5% are elderly/retired, and once in a blue moon, you just might see someone who obviously has had better days. Is the riff-raff quotient higher on other buslines? I'm sure it probably is - but it's not like driving a single-occupancy-vehicle keeps you safe from nutjobs.

 

My point is that all kinds of people ride the bus/train, and ignoramuses who say "ohhh, you know the kind of people who ride the bus" could only be so lucky to have a decently dressed (and tastefully fragranced) 'mo such as myself sit next to them.

 

As a transit advocate, I have to deal with this at the office all the time. A few folks at the office occasionally take transit, and come back with stories about this crazy guy or that weird person. Others in the office use that as a reason for not riding the bus/train. Yet, when someone comes back with a story about the guy who cut him off on I-480, threw a beer bottle out the window at him, and then followed him off the highway to the police station, no one finds that as a sufficient reason to avoid driving.

 

What's the difference? I suspect it's because we contend that we have to drive and feel somewhat protected by the steel and glass box around us. Yet, the other guy also is driving in such a box, but may use it as a 3,000-pound weapon. Some people just like to rationalize I guess....

I'm talking less about safety and more about general pleasantness of the ride.  I've taken my share of bus rides in this town and others, and frankly I've gotten tired of spending my time around ranting lunatics.  The lunatics on the road may cut me off and threaten my life, but at least they don't sit in the car next to me and try to engage me in conversation.  Not scared for my life, but a very real pet peeve!

By the way, I love your new avatar, X!

"at least they don't sit in the car next to me and try to engage me in conversation.  Not scared for my life, but a very real pet peeve!"

 

Wait - you have a pet peeve about ranting lunatics and you come to THIS forum? :lol:

 

Seriously, how often do the ranting lunatics do that to you? I've never had a ranting lunatic directly address me - the only time I've ever seen that was in NYC on the subway, when some guy was warning every passenger about the evils of sin (although he was quoting everything BUT the bible - yeah, I'm sure that Donald Duck was NOT one of the apostles).

 

About the worst I've experienced in Cleveland was when I took the 6 from downtown to the Clinic. LaShaun (I know that because his girlfriend was on speakerphone) was having a yelling match with Keshia (I know because he was yelling back at her) about having to pick up diapers when he was on his way to "da club". The volume was pretty bad - but I figured it wasn't a good time to tell LaShaun to use his "inside voice".

I think we need to start a new string about funny/scary transit/driving stories....

Update:

 

Kind of....

 

Just spoke with Osborne E&A. Everything that has been posted in this thread is the most current information. The project is more of a RTA project then a CSU one. The university only gets money from the state for projects that deal directly with education. So the ball is in RTA's court.

Has anybody with RTA contacts heard anything?

 

 

 

Seems like KJP has the closest contacts with RTA.  With the cost overruns that occurred so far with the ECTP, I hope that this project will not be downsized as a result.

you know what, I have been on a RTA bus when a grown man sold a gun to 15 year olds, how about when the lady with aids told another lady she would spit on her, or how about the time when a drunk guy got on the bus and pulled a knife out on a group of teenage girls, my point is that some times the bus ride can be dangerous, if you cant understand my point, then to bad. there are alot of good people that ride the bus,people who work, go to school and of the sort, but there is always people who make the ride a little unbearable, and thats the truth, if you want to be naive and think that it is'nt then you are all lying to yourselves and need to get a reality check.