The operating cost isn't much higher than other systems.

 

 

You told me it was.

 

operational cost as in moving the trains is average, the maintenance costs both of the rolling stock and the infrastructure is very high, not helped by low ridership.

I think that's just due to having an old rolling stock. When your Heavy Rail is pushing 30 years old and parts possibly getting harder to find along with them breaking down due to age, that would definitely cause maintenance cost to skyrocket. Also with how fast train technology had progressed the new trains I believe would be worlds cheaper to maintain than 1980s trains.

 

The operating cost isn't much higher than other systems.

 

 

You told me it was.

 

operational cost as in moving the trains is average, the maintenance costs both of the rolling stock and the infrastructure is very high, not helped by low ridership.

I think that's just due to having an old rolling stock. When your Heavy Rail is pushing 30 years old and parts possibly getting harder to find along with them breaking down due to age, that would definitely cause maintenance cost to skyrocket. Also with how fast train technology had progressed the new trains I believe would be worlds cheaper to maintain than 1980s trains.

 

Exactly, central rail is over sized, for the fleet that is operating today and is expected to operate in the future.

 

moving to Light rail will help. the cost saving from moving the Red, blue and Green lines to the same platfroms in tower city will save a alot of money.

 

Finding ways to move the fleet to a higher voltage standard will help. possibly reducing the number of sub stations, (even a mix of 750VDC green and Blue and 1500VDC on redline will help reduce operating costs.

 

removing some of the flyovers and bridge will also will help.

 

 

removing some bridges will help.m

expanding the system and looking for way to share the overhead costs with Commuter rial or even Amtrak will help.

 

here is a Quick breakdown of RTA Vs tri met

 

 

look at RTA central rail vs tri met

Portland

 

GCRTA

 

 

Actually, it looks like GCRTA's bus and demand response costs are what's out of proportion with Portland's, not rail. The light/heavy rail costs appear in proportion with Portland's, given the comparative scale of the two systems. Not saying that Portland is the national standard, but it is a system many want to emulate.

 

And I wonder how much of GCRTA's active but idle fleet could be stored INSIDE Central Rail's maintenance building, out of the elements?

Actually, it looks like GCRTA's bus and demand response costs are what's out of proportion with Portland's, not rail. The light/heavy rail costs appear in proportion with Portland's, given the comparative scale of the two systems. Not saying that Portland is the national standard, but it is a system many want to emulate.

 

And I wonder how much of GCRTA's active but idle fleet could be stored INSIDE Central Rail's maintenance building, out of the elements?

 

Portland.

 

I think it would be a good Idea to look at transformational investments

 

Portland cost per hour is $197, and fare box Recovery is 49%.

 

inside or outside, they will be scraped, it doesn't matter.

 

More info to come.

 

Actually, it looks like GCRTA's bus and demand response costs are what's out of proportion with Portland's, not rail. The light/heavy rail costs appear in proportion with Portland's, given the comparative scale of the two systems. Not saying that Portland is the national standard, but it is a system many want to emulate.

 

And I wonder how much of GCRTA's active but idle fleet could be stored INSIDE Central Rail's maintenance building, out of the elements?

 

Portland.

 

I think it would be a good Idea to look at transformational investments

 

Portland cost per hour is $197, and fare box Recovery is 49%.

 

inside or outside, they will be scraped, it doesn't matter.

 

More info to come.

 

 

Scraped? Do you mean scrapped? If so, are you trying to say that the rail system will be scrapped? I think the idea is to replace the rail fleet with perhaps 40-some cars. If so, most of those could fit inside the maintenance building with room to spare for maintenance. And those that can't will be out in revenue service or be on short-term layover/idling.

Actually, it looks like GCRTA's bus and demand response costs are what's out of proportion with Portland's, not rail. The light/heavy rail costs appear in proportion with Portland's, given the comparative scale of the two systems. Not saying that Portland is the national standard, but it is a system many want to emulate.

 

And I wonder how much of GCRTA's active but idle fleet could be stored INSIDE Central Rail's maintenance building, out of the elements?

 

Portland.

 

I think it would be a good Idea to look at transformational investments

 

Portland cost per hour is $197, and fare box Recovery is 49%.

 

inside or outside, they will be scraped, it doesn't matter.

 

More info to come.

 

 

Scraped? Do you mean scrapped? If so, are you trying to say that the rail system will be scrapped? I think the idea is to replace the rail fleet with perhaps 40-some cars. If so, most of those could fit inside the maintenance building with room to spare for maintenance. And those that can't will be out in revenue service or be on short-term layover/idling.

 

Storing them indoors doesn't save any money, having a right sized maintenance  facility would.

 

Excess capacity and expensive infrastructure (stations, rolling stock, flyovers, bridges, maintenance facilities) right sizing would help lower costs.

 

I would like to see the return of the express surcharge for rail transit if ridership continues to increase, this could be used as a down payment on the new rail fleet.

 

Long term the solution is to increase ridership by expanding the system, which spreads the maintenance costs over more riders.   

Notice the operating costs on the streetcar, how low they are even when compared to buses.

Of course, all of this is academic. You will never see a rail extension as long as Joe Calabrese is GM.

Of course, all of this is academic. You will never see a rail extension as long as Joe Calabrese is GM.

And we'll probably never see a rail expansion with the current board either because if they really wanted it Calabrese would either push for it or leave. Regardless, we'll get improved bus connections in the study area which it really needs now.

^^ Both of you are correct, and thank you for saying it.

^^ Both of you are correct, and thank you for saying it.

 

follow this logic

 

the board is appointed by the county and the mayor of Cleveland. 

 

4 appointees of the Cuyahoga County Mayors and City Managers Association

Gary A. Norton Jr.,  Mayor, City of East Cleveland

Bill Cervenik  Mayor, City of Euclid

Mark J. Elliott, Mayor, City of Brook Park

Vice-President: Dennis M. Clough, Mayor, City of Westlake

 

3 members Appointed by the Mayor of Cleveland

Valarie J. McCall, Chief of Government & International Affairs, City of Cleveland

President: George F. Dixon III,  Restaurateur

Leo Serrano, Executive Director, Office of Institutional Advancement, Cleveland Metropolitan School District

 

3 members Are appointed by the County 2 are city of Cleveland Residents. 

Nick "Sonny" Nardi, Veteran labor leader

Karen Gabriel Moss, Cleveland immigration attorney Cleveland Resident

Jesse O. Anderson  President, Disabled Rights Task Force Inc Cleveland Resident

 

To change RTA you need to change the Mayor of cleveland

^^ Both of you are correct, and thank you for saying it.

 

follow this logic

 

the board is appointed by the county and the mayor of Cleveland. 

 

4 appointees of the Cuyahoga County Mayors and City Managers Association

Gary A. Norton Jr.,  Mayor, City of East Cleveland

Bill Cervenik  Mayor, City of Euclid

Mark J. Elliott, Mayor, City of Brook Park

Vice-President: Dennis M. Clough, Mayor, City of Westlake

 

3 members Appointed by the Mayor of Cleveland

Valarie J. McCall, Chief of Government & International Affairs, City of Cleveland

President: George F. Dixon III,  Restaurateur

Leo Serrano, Executive Director, Office of Institutional Advancement, Cleveland Metropolitan School District

 

3 members Are appointed by the County 2 are city of Cleveland Residents. 

Nick "Sonny" Nardi, Veteran labor leader

Karen Gabriel Moss, Cleveland immigration attorney Cleveland Resident

Jesse O. Anderson  President, Disabled Rights Task Force Inc Cleveland Resident

 

To change RTA you need to change the Mayor of cleveland

 

So assuming the Jackson appointees live in the city, it's 5-5 (at least) with at least two of the suburbanites being inner ring. 

^ There are inaccuracies above, as to the makeup of the RTA Board. Here is the breakdown, by law. All terms are for 3 years, and begin in March.

 

4 persons are appointed by the Mayor of Cleveland, with the review/approval of City Council. (Dixon, Anderson, McCall and Serrano)

 

3 persons are appointed by the County Executive, with the review/approval of the County Council. One of them must live in the City of Cleveland. (Nardi, Moss, Norton)

 

3 mayors are elected by the Mayors and City Managers Association. The resullts of their election are sent to the County Executive, who approves it and passes it along to RTA. (Clough, Cervenik, Elliot)

^ There are inaccuracies above, as to the makeup of the RTA Board. Here is the breakdown, by law. All terms are for 3 years, and begin in March.

 

4 persons are appointed by the Mayor of Cleveland, with the review/approval of City Council. (Dixon, Anderson, McCall and Serrano)

 

3 persons are appointed by the County Executive, with the review/approval of the County Council. One of them must live in the City of Cleveland. (Nardi, Moss, Norton)

 

3 mayors are elected by the Mayors and City Managers Association. The resullts of their election are sent to the County Executive, who approves it and passes it along to RTA. (Clough, Cervenik, Elliot)

 

Thanks.

^ There are inaccuracies above, as to the makeup of the RTA Board. Here is the breakdown, by law. All terms are for 3 years, and begin in March.

 

4 persons are appointed by the Mayor of Cleveland, with the review/approval of City Council. (Dixon, Anderson, McCall and Serrano)

 

3 persons are appointed by the County Executive, with the review/approval of the County Council. One of them must live in the City of Cleveland. (Nardi, Moss, Norton)

 

3 mayors are elected by the Mayors and City Managers Association. The resullts of their election are sent to the County Executive, who approves it and passes it along to RTA. (Clough, Cervenik, Elliot)

thanks jerry

 

where are the bylaws on RTA's' new website?

 

so it would make sense that if we had a mayor like Cincinnati's mayor and a more progressive county executive we would see, a more progressive RTA.

http://www.riderta.com/board

 

We tried to make the URLs as logical as possible, as in finding Toyota at www.toyota.com.

 

The bylaws are summarized, but all key points are here.

 

 

http://www.riderta.com/board

 

We tried to make the URLs as logical as possible, as in finding Toyota at www.toyota.com.

 

The bylaws are summarized, but all key points are here.

Do you own a Toyota?

FYI, our Web site has a search engine. If you enter "Board bylaws," it will take you there.

Here's an interesting take on BRT vs. streetcars: http://www.theatlanticcities.com/jobs-and-economy/2013/09/when-it-comes-streetcars-and-economic-development-theres-still-so-much-we-dont-know/6899/

Here's an interesting take on BRT vs. streetcars: http://www.theatlanticcities.com/jobs-and-economy/2013/09/when-it-comes-streetcars-and-economic-development-theres-still-so-much-we-dont-know/6899/

The article says that Portland's streetcar cost $95 million, how much area does their streetcar cover compared to our BRT? Also how much did the Healthline cost to construct?

^$200 million, which inlcudes the cost of the new vehicles.

A Red Line/HealthLine Extension Study Project Update has been created and the video is embedded on the project web site....

 

http://redlinehealthlinestudy.com/project-updates/take-look-video-explanation-studys-goals-and-alternatives

^ how long would it take on the healthline to get from the eastern end of route to public square? Has to be far too long to be a viable option.

^ how long would it take on the healthline to get from the eastern end of route to public square? Has to be far too long to be a viable option.

 

Not necessarily. Some BRT lines are much longer than the HealthLine extended to near the high-rise towers along Lake Shore Boulevard in Euclid. One example is the Orange Line in Los Angeles, which is 18 miles. It feeds the Red Line subway at North Hollywood. And there is the possibility that, if a BRT is built from Windermere to Euclid's Lake Shore area via Five Points and the East 185th Old World Village, that it could be operated as a second BRT. Perhaps some or all trips would terminate at Windermere where passengers could have timed transfers to the Red Line or to the HealthLine. I am also continuing to push for a self-propelled diesel rail car shuttle between the Euclid Park-n-Ride and Windermere and hopefully it will test well in the ridership modeling. This rail service could be extended east into Lake County in a second phase.

 

Combined, these two services would funnel significant new traffic into the Red Line which GCRTA cannot abandon, serving Northeast Ohio's fastest growing economic engine (ie University Circle), and promoting development in some of the most impoverished and/or vacated urban neighborhoods of Ohio (which is a factor that would lend this project a high funding score).

I just hope that the already somewhat slow/often delayed healthline isn't extended. I'd rather see a new BRT route, as an extension would probably cause even more delays. I didn't know a separate route was a possibility.

I'm with you. The existing HealthLine can sometimes be unreliable and buses get bunched up, sometimes four or five in a row and then nothing for a half-hour.

 

Fortunately I use it almost exclusively within downtown where the E-Line Trolley uses the same route. So between the HealthLine or the E-Line, something is bound to show up soon.

BRT is a very broad terminology.  Cleveland's BRT is highly urbanized -- a level bus line that runs through some core urban areas of the city.  It’s only separated lane-wise from parallel traffic and, by traffic signals from crossing traffic…  Pittsburgh and Minneapolis’ BRT runs largely on grade separated roadways or freeways so, necessarily, that type will be faster and probably more reliable than the Health Line.

 

When will they have a GPS based arrival system that can be accessed from a smart phone to see when the next bus is coming? It's a game changer when relying on bus travel.

 

Tight Urban bus routes suck..they get stuck by a wheelchair getting on, or a bike rider that doesn't know how to secure the bike, or a tourist asking questions, or a rider disputing payment, or a car wreck, or an RTA employee not showing up at shift change, or an ambulance/fire truck, or an old person that needs to sit down..or all of the above for one driver/route...etc.  The delays are not usually the fault of the RTA or the driver...its the nature of the beast.  I have sat on buses that miss 2 or 3 light changes due to the things mentioned above.

 

An RTA manager is not delaying things at the beginning of the route and then sending out 3 back to back buses..and laughing.

When will they have a GPS based arrival system that can be accessed from a smart phone to see when the next bus is coming? It's a game changer when relying on bus travel.

 

We've had one since June of 2012. It's called NextConnect.

 

While the main NextConnect site is not especially mobile-friendly (a shortcoming that should be addressed by the vendor with an eventual upgrade), the information from that system has also been integrated into the route-specific landing pages on riderta.com, which are designed to be responsive to any screen size, orientation, and resolution. Give it a try, and let us know what you think. Send comments to [email protected].

If money was no object I'd prefer KJP's diesel rail option because of the possibility of an extension into Lake county, however since Laketran doesn't seem interested in any kind of partnership on this, I'd rather we just got an express bus to run down Lakeshore from the highrises then take Babbitt to Euclid Ave then take that at least to Windermere. If it stops every quarter mile like the HL, then it'll bunch up like the HL does so it needs to have limited stops.

While the main NextConnect site is not especially mobile-friendly (a shortcoming that should be addressed by the vendor with an eventual upgrade)

 

Kinda defeats the purpose, I would think.

New Public Open Houses Announced! Come join us!  We will be discussing the Red Line/Healthline Study's Purpose and Need and start looking at some alternatives for meeting those needs December 10, 11 and 12!  Join us at the location most convenient for you...

 

Dec. 10

Moore Counseling and Mediation Services, Inc. – City of Euclid – 6-8pm

22639 Euclid Avenue

Euclid, Ohio 44117

 

Dec. 11

East Cleveland Public Library – City of East Cleveland – 6-8pm

14101 Euclid Avenue

East Cleveland, OH 44112

 

Dec. 12

Collinwood Recreation Center – City of Cleveland – 6-8pm

16300 Lake Shore Blvd

Cleveland, OH 44110

 

If money was no object I'd prefer KJP's diesel rail option because of the possibility of an extension into Lake county, however since Laketran doesn't seem interested in any kind of partnership on this, I'd rather we just got an express bus to run down Lakeshore from the highrises then take Babbitt to Euclid Ave then take that at least to Windermere. If it stops every quarter mile like the HL, then it'll bunch up like the HL does so it needs to have limited stops.

 

Laketran had not participated in this study because GCRTA did not ask it to. GCRTA staff said this would be a Cuyahoga County study, although some data from Lake County that affects Cuyahoga County would be included. The timing wouldn't have been great for Laketran anyway because they had on the ballot a renewable levy to be converted into a permanent levy to continue its existing service and provide a local match for capital improvements. Laketran didn't want voters to get the false perception that the levy had anything to do with the Red Line/HealthLine extension study.

 

Depending on Norfolk Southern's response to the idea and what requirements it may have before accommodating it, a DMU can cost less than a BRT. The 6.8-mile HealthLine cost $200 million, or$29.4 million per mile.

 

So the distance from Windermere to the Euclid P&R via NS RR is 5.5 miles. If there is to be an extension into Lake County someday, the distance from the Euclid P&R to Erie Street in downtown Willoughby is 6.7 miles. SR615 in Mentor is 4.2 miles farther, and Liberty Street in Painesville is 5.8 miles beyond that. FYI.

 

Here are some recent start-ups of Diesel Multiple-Unit (DMU) train services, including the date (year) they started operations, endpoints, length of route, start-up capital cost and cost per mile:

 

New Jersey Transit “RiverLINE” (2004) Trenton-Camden – 34 miles – $1.1 billion – $32.3 million per mile;

North County (California) Transit District “Sprinter” (2008) Oceanside-Escondido – 22 miles – $351.5 million – $16.1 million per mile;

Denton County (Texas) Transportation Authority “A-Train” (2011) Trinity Mills-Denton – 21 miles – $325 million – $15.5 million per mile;

TriMet (Portland, OR) “Westside Express Service” (2009) Beaverton-Wilsonville – 15 miles – $161 million – $10.7 million per mile;

Austin (Texas) Capital “MetroRail” (2010) Austin-Leander – 32 miles – $105 million – $3.3 million per mile.

 

These services range from very frequent 15 minutes peak, 30 minutes off-peak frequency of service on NJT's RiverLINE from 6 am to midnight, half-hourly service all day on the Sprinter, hourly service all day on Austin's Metro rail, and frequent but rush-hour-only service on the A-train and WES.

 

So extending the Red Line via a DMU to the following destinations could cost anywhere from:

 

Euclid P&R (5.5 miles): $18.2 million to $180 million (median is $99 million)

Willoughby (12.2 miles): $40.3 million to $403 million (median is $222 million)

Mentor (16.4 miles): $54.1 million to $541 million (median is $298 million)

Painesville (22.2 miles): $73.3 million to $733 million (median is $403 million)

 

The low end would probably be a rush hour-only service running perhaps every 20-30 minutes, the median cost would probably buy an all-day service with 20-30 minute service during peak hours and hourly off-peak, and the top end would likely buy for us 15-minute headways during rush hours and service every 30 minutes at all other times of the day/evening.

 

BTW, the best part of using the NS line? It is a double-tracked, electrically signaled railroad from Cleveland to the Euclid P&R. Only 20 trains a day use it now. Double-track, signaled railroads can handle 70-100 trains a day, depending on the type of traffic and the frequency to which customers are served along the way. Both good and bad, there are few rail customers left along the NS line from Windermere to Euclid.

While the main NextConnect site is not especially mobile-friendly (a shortcoming that should be addressed by the vendor with an eventual upgrade)

 

Kinda defeats the purpose, I would think.

 

That might be a limitation of the vendor.  RTA may have their hands tied right now. 

 

There are a couple of other issues regarding  real time info.  When making selections from the Live Departures screen each drop down selection causes the website to reload.  With a computer and decent connection that isn't much of an issue, still annoying and could be better written, but when using it on a mobile device it can be time consuming.  Hopefully whatever update that brings a better a dedicated mobile site will take into account some of these issues. 

 

Wanted to add, to keep this on topic, that running this extension as a full route from PS to Euclid on the HealthLine would be disastrous to the schedule.  There is already a problem with buses bunching up, running late, that increasing the opportunity for these problems should render that a non starter.  Separating the BRT portion into two routes seems like a good compromise if the DMU or Red Line extension turn out to be too expensive.

Let's keep the discussion NextConnect info in the general Cleveland RTA thread. Thanks.

If money was no object I'd prefer KJP's diesel rail option because of the possibility of an extension into Lake county, however since Laketran doesn't seem interested in any kind of partnership on this, I'd rather we just got an express bus to run down Lakeshore from the highrises then take Babbitt to Euclid Ave then take that at least to Windermere. If it stops every quarter mile like the HL, then it'll bunch up like the HL does so it needs to have limited stops.

 

Laketran had not participated in this study because GCRTA did not ask it to. GCRTA staff said this would be a Cuyahoga County study, although some data from Lake County that affects Cuyahoga County would be included.

Without the riders from Lake county, I just don't see the potential ridership justifying a rail option even just to Euclid. Without a partnership with Laketran this whole study appearsto me to be RTA's excuse to justify using federal funds to buy more bendy busses since Joe C seems to have a hard on for them.

 

It pisses me off because it sucks to live near one of the denser neighborhoods on the east side and not have a decent option to get to UC without going through downtown and RTA has the ability to fix it but seems to be unable to see the obvious ways to fix it because of their love for BRT. BRT is the last thing this corridor needs; it would be worse than doing nothing.

If you haven't done so already, be sure to share your sentiments with the study team -- either through the project website or at one of the public meetings Musky posted this morning.

 

http://www.redlinehealthlinestudy.com/

FYI.....

 

You are cordially invited to the second round of public engagement meetings for the RTA Red Line/HealthLine Extension Study. Meeting details are as follows:

 

Euclid Open House

Date: Tuesday, December 10, 2013

Time: 6:00 PM - 8:00 PM

Location: Moore Counseling & Mediation Services, Inc.

22639 Euclid Avenue Euclid, Ohio 44117

 

East Cleveland Open House

Date: Wednesday, December 11, 2013

Time: 6:00 PM-8:00 PM

Location: East Cleveland Public Library

14101 Euclid Avenue East Cleveland, OH 44112

 

Cleveland Open House

Date: Thursday, December 12, 2013

Time: 6:00 PM-8:00 PM

Location: Collinwood Recreation Center

16300 Lake Shore Blvd Cleveland, OH 44110

 

RTA has initiated this study to enhance transit service in the northeast section of RTA’s service area. The study will identify transportation opportunities that may support and sustain future growth and economic redevelopment in East Cleveland, Euclid, Collinwood, and adjacent communities. The study will do this by collaborating and building consensus around successful transit service improvement strategies. The outcomes will guide RTA’s investments for years to come. A major part of this study process is engaging with the public to hear their thoughts, opinions, concerns, and ideas. We hope you will join us for the meeting in your area. Attached please find a flyer with all the necessary information about the study and public engagement meeting details. Feel free to forward to friends and colleagues, and post in your community.

 

Please follow us on our social media channels:

 

Website: http://www.redlinehealthlinestudy.com/

Twitter: @RedlineHLStudy

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/RedlineHealthlineStudy

YouTube: go to GreaterClevelandRTA at youtube.com

Hotline: (216) 282-6113

 

And check out the fun infogame on our study website: http://www.redlinehealthlinestudy.com/explore-alternatives

 

Best Regards,

 

The RTA Red Line/HealthLine Extension Study Project Team

More....

 

Redline/HL Study ‏@RedlineHLStudy  4m

Take a look! 3 minute video on #RedLineHealthlineStudy 's Goals & Alternatives #CLE #Transit #Euclid #EastCleveland http://redlinehealthlinestudy.com/project-update …

^It's the same video they released in November. You linked to it upthread.

Oops. They pushed it out there today like it was a new video -- which I still haven't watched yet! :(

Oops. They pushed it out there today like it was a new video -- which I still haven't watched yet! :(

It's not that informative of a video, you're not missing much. Although one of the comments some girl reads is one that I submitted to them on twitter. Seeing the alternatives that they're considering at http://www.redlinehealthlinestudy.com/explore-alternatives is far more interesting.

Could Laketran finance rail for a Lake County portion of a Red Line extension? 

Does the cost per mile for rail go down if there a bunch of miles?

Could Laketran finance rail for a Lake County portion of a Red Line extension? 

Does the cost per mile for rail go down if there a bunch of miles?

 

They could. But the data is showing there isn't enough potential ridership for a full-blown extension of a double-track, electrified rail line that's separate from the NS line. The study team is considering a DMU (self-propelled diesel rail cars) running on the NS tracks from Windereme to the Euclid Park-n-Ride and possibly beyond. The extension of a DMU beyond the Euclid P&R is what Laketran would have to consider studying and funding on their own. And the Lake County service would likely need the extension of NS's second main track that already exists west of the Euclid P&R. But this is beyond the scope of the Cuyahoga County-focused GCRTA study.

Oops. They pushed it out there today like it was a new video -- which I still haven't watched yet! :(

It's not that informative of a video, you're not missing much. Although one of the comments some girl reads is one that I submitted to them on twitter. Seeing the alternatives that they're considering at http://www.redlinehealthlinestudy.com/explore-alternatives is far more interesting.

Option E and G are great alternatives, a streetcar that touches numerous different neighborhoods that are very disconnected from rail (Ivanhoe, E.152, Waterloo, Downtown Euclid Etc.) I feel like this is a more exciting alternative than the Heavy/Commuter rail going from Superior station to E.260th and Euclid. This is especially exciting since it rides through actual neighborhoods which would help with ridership greatly, where the red line would be away from residential and face the same problems the current red line is facing. I also like that it would help play a part in revitalizing the Collinwood area. The only thing I would change is having it go to the end of the county line but I know it would be a challenge to find a turnaround for the streetcar.

 

Could Laketran finance rail for a Lake County portion of a Red Line extension? 

Does the cost per mile for rail go down if there a bunch of miles?

 

They could. But the data is showing there isn't enough potential ridership for a full-blown extension of a double-track, electrified rail line that's separate from the NS line. The study team is considering a DMU (self-propelled diesel rail cars) running on the NS tracks from Windereme to the Euclid Park-n-Ride and possibly beyond. The extension of a DMU beyond the Euclid P&R is what Laketran would have to consider studying and funding on their own. And the Lake County service would likely need the extension of NS's second main track that already exists west of the Euclid P&R. But this is beyond the scope of the Cuyahoga County-focused GCRTA study.

 

Thanks!

Oops. They pushed it out there today like it was a new video -- which I still haven't watched yet! :(

It's not that informative of a video, you're not missing much. Although one of the comments some girl reads is one that I submitted to them on twitter. Seeing the alternatives that they're considering at http://www.redlinehealthlinestudy.com/explore-alternatives is far more interesting.

Option E and G are great alternatives, a streetcar that touches numerous different neighborhoods that are very disconnected from rail (Ivanhoe, E.152, Waterloo, Downtown Euclid Etc.) I feel like this is a more exciting alternative than the Heavy/Commuter rail going from Superior station to E.260th and Euclid. This is especially exciting since it rides through actual neighborhoods which would help with ridership greatly, where the red line would be away from residential and face the same problems the current red line is facing. I also like that it would help play a part in revitalizing the Collinwood area. The only thing I would change is having it go to the end of the county line but I know it would be a challenge to find a turnaround for the streetcar.

 

I'm not bothered by not going all the way to the county line, but they could at least have extended the busses down to the high rises at 260th. The residents there make up a significant portion of the ridership of the 39/39F.

 

Plus no need to plan for a turnaround for a streetcar if you have no intention of building a streetcar. Let's not kid ourselves, a RTA doesn't want rail. We all know we're going to get bendy busses and while it's tight there is room for one to turn around in Shoregate or in front of one of the high rises, so what's the issue?

 

As far as alternatives for routes, I like half of them but I'd prefer one that takes Euclid to Coit then take 152nd through 5 points and then turn onto Waterloo to 185th up to Lakeshore.

Oops. They pushed it out there today like it was a new video -- which I still haven't watched yet! :(

It's not that informative of a video, you're not missing much. Although one of the comments some girl reads is one that I submitted to them on twitter. Seeing the alternatives that they're considering at http://www.redlinehealthlinestudy.com/explore-alternatives is far more interesting.

Option E and G are great alternatives, a streetcar that touches numerous different neighborhoods that are very disconnected from rail (Ivanhoe, E.152, Waterloo, Downtown Euclid Etc.) I feel like this is a more exciting alternative than the Heavy/Commuter rail going from Superior station to E.260th and Euclid. This is especially exciting since it rides through actual neighborhoods which would help with ridership greatly, where the red line would be away from residential and face the same problems the current red line is facing. I also like that it would help play a part in revitalizing the Collinwood area. The only thing I would change is having it go to the end of the county line but I know it would be a challenge to find a turnaround for the streetcar.

 

I'm not bothered by not going all the way to the county line, but they could at least have extended the busses down to the high rises at 260th. The residents there make up a significant portion of the ridership of the 39/39F.

 

Plus no need to plan for a turnaround for a streetcar if you have no intention of building a streetcar. We all know we're going to get bendy busses and while it's tight there is room for one to turn around in Shoregate, so what's the issue?

 

As far as alternatives for routes, I like half of them but I'd prefer one that takes Euclid to Coit then take 152nd through 5 points and then turn onto Waterloo to 185th up to Lakeshore.

I really wanted the Rapid+ LRT/Streetcar to at least end at E.260th and Lakeshore but if they improve the timing of the 30/39F if that streetcar alternative were to be chosen I would be just as happy. I feel like any extension of service would have to improve service through Waterloo rd. because that seems to be the next emerging neighborhood and adding this service would help serve the neighborhood a lot better than now as it builds up. Option C (I believe that is the option you prefer) doesn't mention serving Waterloo which is why I like options E, and G since it seems to serve a multitude of areas and both have a larger population than Option C within a half mile. I know we most likely will end up with healthline buses but a man can dream right?

[They could. But the data is showing there isn't enough potential ridership for a full-blown extension of a double-track, electrified rail line that's separate from the NS line.

 

1. Where's the data?  Is it currently in report form?

 

2. What about the costs of electrifying the NS tracks themselves concomitant with an obvious shifting away of most freight to other NS corridors?

[They could. But the data is showing there isn't enough potential ridership for a full-blown extension of a double-track, electrified rail line that's separate from the NS line.

 

1. Where's the data?  Is it currently in report form?

 

2. What about the costs of electrifying the NS tracks themselves concomitant with an obvious shifting away of most freight to other NS corridors?

 

Alternative Alignment B

Alternative B has the second-lowest number of people living or working within station areas of all alternatives.